Still Fighting! - The Zephyr Rework

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

Okay, I want to start off by saying that this will be split up into two sections. One in which Zephyr keeps all of her abilities, which will be first. And the later, in which we give Zephyr something new. So yes! This is my third rodeo on a Zephyr rework. I've been looking around at quite a few Zephyr rework options and well, obviously people desperately want her changed, since well... she very well may be the next Primed Warframe.

Zephyr Unchanged

Okay, now here's how we can keep all of Zephyr's current abilities while also making her viable for combat. Personally, this is not the way to go, as half of her kit has the same ability.

First, starting off with her attributes, the only thing I would necessarily have changed is that her energy be slightly increased from 100 to 125, meaning she'll have around 175 energy at rank 30. Other than that, her attributes are fine.

1ST - Tail Wind - Now, this desperately needs to be changed to a damage ability. If DE wants to keep all of her abilities, this needs to change to damage instead of mobility because bullet jumping exists. This should also probably scale off of your equipped melee weapon and instead of duration, range. Other than that, the ability will function similarly to before.

2ND - Dive Bomb - Dive Bomb is an ability that was almost perfectly fine (similarly to the Scourge), but where it falls off is in just damage. It has some good quality CC, but it's presented as a damage ability which is probably why it should also scale from melee.

3RD - Turbulence - The good side of Zephyr is unfortunately only right here. Turbulence is great. Keep it.

4TH - Tornadoes - This ability is kinda' like Dive Bomb, except there's more issues. Number 1, we have here an ability somehow more annoying than Old Hydroid's Tentacle Swarm (ahem, ahem Hentai Swarm). At least without the augment. Second, why in the world does a bird's winds deal magnetic damage? This literally just is... well... why? We can swap this over instead to damage evenly split between impact, puncture, and slash. And finally, why not only give Zephyr the ability to change her Tornado damage type, and allow her to change it multiple times.

Passive - Avian - The passive is pretty... okay, I guess? But we can add onto that? On top of Zephyr being able to fall slower, how about also adding in the Zephyr regenerates her health while in the air?

_________________________________________-

Now here's the section where I give my opinions on what Zephyr's kit should look like. Yes, I am including a new ability, but this ability can also stay true to the Frame's theme and playstyle. Once again, I am aware that DE has stated they are not giving new abilities to reworked Frames, but here are my thoughts anyways.

Zephyr Reborn

Passive - Avian - Let's just stick with this passive. (explained above)

1ST (NEW) Ablazed Aviator - Yes, this is another mix of Tail Wind and Dive Bomb. But, hear me out. Here's how this could work. This ability will be similar to Ivara's Quiver or Vauban's Minelayer, switching between abilities. You can switch between Tail Wind and Dive Bomb. Additionally, both abilities will function similarly to before, but with the changes listed above. This switch mechanic will take away from the god awful difference between console and PC aim-direction attacks.

2ND - Turbulence - Here is Turbulence moved down to the second slot to make way for a new third ability. Once again, Turbulence is fine.

3RD - (NEW) Gale Surge - This is an excellent CC ability. Zephyr will release highly pressurized air from her body over a duration of 5/10/15/20 seconds. When active enemies are slightly pushed away from Zephyr over a range of 3/6/9/12 meters. If enemies get within 2 meters of Zephyr, they will fall down. This ability will synergize with the Tail Wind version of AA. When active, if you activate Tail Wind, Zephyr will move faster, further and deal more damage. Gale Surge can be ended early.

4TH - Tornadoes - Want this ability to be similar to Hydroid's new Tentacle Swarm. What do I mean? Charge time. Zephyr will have three levels of charge. On level 1 charge, Zephyr will summon 4 tornadoes. On level two charge, Zephyr will summon two larger Tornadoes that deal more damage and have more pull. On level three charge, Zephyr will summon one huge Tornado that has great pull range and high power. This ability also synergizes with Gale Surge. When activated with Gale Surge, Tornadoes will move faster. If the augment is equipped,charges will only to to four Tornadoes.

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So, how'd you like it? If you don't like the second Zephyr Reborn, I hope you at least like her Unchanged. Leave you own feelings below and let's see how we can get this Frame in the clear.

[ShikaRoddy]

I second and third this

[tool47]

I hope they rework her before the priming as it would make little sense to release a Zephyr Prime in the state she is currently in. I do think her kit needs to be changed and I kinda like your suggestions in the Reborn section with the exception of the first ability. I think Tail Wind and Dive Bomb in themselves a bit too redundant with the movement 2.0 system and melee slam attacks. Additionally I dislike the switching mechanic in abilities so I'd prefer something completely new as the first ability.

[Hemmo67]

why do every idea for her rework have turbulance moved to 2? do u people have any idea how uncomfortable it's to move and blast enemies and wonkily press 2 on the keyboard?! >:|

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

35 minutes ago, tool47 said:

I hope they rework her before the priming as it would make little sense to release a Zephyr Prime in the state she is currently in. I do think her kit needs to be changed and I kinda like your suggestions in the Reborn section with the exception of the first ability. I think Tail Wind and Dive Bomb in themselves a bit too redundant with the movement 2.0 system and melee slam attacks. Additionally I dislike the switching mechanic in abilities so I'd prefer something completely new as the first ability.

Yeah, DE is probably going to pull a Hydroid with Zephyr. Let's hope they do her right the first time.

[Inanegrain62]

I'd prefer her passive to give her better mobility in the air.

i.e. not losing momentum after some time has passed while aim gliding. Remove the falling slower part or add speed to make it... less awkward?

For the 1st ability...  it's to prevent being locked or to have the option to dive forwards and upwards?

I've heard that turbulence is inconsistent on reflecting hitscan projectiles. Should get fixed by then.

Gale surge.... well, it could be something else, can't think of anything for myself. Should it be a toggle instead?

 

The tornadoes, the augment available should be changed then. The damage type... logically, it could be changed to impact instead of magnetic for armor stripping, then again, shooting it with a corrosive weapon would be better. Honestly can't think of much to change despite her needing one.

 

I believe her 2nd and 1st currently are useless with her third being valued. Her 4th being... well, not preferred as other things do better.

[Warlord1400]

I don't know why, but I'd really get excited if Tail Wind had a combo counter, making flight and damage even more viable.

BTW, your idea for a new ability is amazing! You can turn into a battering ram and do finishers on everyone!

I'd prefer that instead of switching/cycling through abilities on her new 1, all she has to do to Dive Bomb is just Hold 1 or look down while pressing 1.

Also, I think that they should give Tornado more of a debuffing feel than a CC feel. All the enemies go sky high and it's abysmal to watch or play through. As you said, it should start out at IPS. I just want to make sure that it still absorbs elements, and it lightly ragdolls and drags enemies, with better targeting.

Finally, my bit on new passives along with her current are:

• Damage reduction while airborne(10 to 20% is reasonable)
• Increased Damage while airborne(15% should be good)
• Increased Aim Glide Duration(x5 or infinite, like Loki has Wall Latch)

I also think some of the buffs should roll off into grounded combat, or have a recharge/reset mechanic the longer you stay airborne building up to peak buff, similar to snipers or Octavia's Metronome but with no downside. A 5-second duration should be good for the buff passives.

I really love the concept of Zephyr, but her conception is now a novelty, despite Turbulence. Not only do I want to play her more, but I want her to be super good.

Plains of Eidolon is coming, we need a bird to trek the hell out of it. She can spam her 1 and go for kilometers, beating out Volt. She has to get a rework soon!

 

Edited October 10, 2017 by Warlord1400
Tornado info

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

2 hours ago, Hemmo67 said:

why do every idea for her rework have turbulance moved to 2? do u people have any idea how uncomfortable it's to move and blast enemies and wonkily press 2 on the keyboard?! >:|

I'm not really sure if that's a joke or not, because on PS4, we have to press two buttons to activate each ability. And still move too.

[Mudfam]

Dive Bomb just needs to be a charged Tail Wind, much simpler and easier to control.

Tornados. Never liked this ability and I've yet to see a rework suggestion that I would like. Raw damage abilities just don't scale and I'm not interested in any of that. Maybe if they collected "projectiles" fired into them and continued to deal their damage it could work as a damage ability, scaling off our weapons. Ofc if we could control the element by other means than shooting it we could strip armour without redundantly having to use a corrosive weapon, but meh.

I don't agree that bullet jumping makes tailwind redundant. Tail wind still travels further and can be chained indefinitely in the air.

That's my opinion / critique. The rest sounds fine to me.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

Okay, let's blow through these at once.

2 hours ago, Warlord1400 said:

I don't know why, but I'd really get excited if Tail Wind had a combo counter, making flight and damage even more viable.

Yes! That is exactly what I want to see! This would seem super awesome and would just make Zephyr's Tail Wind and Dive Bomb so much more than it is now!

2 hours ago, Warlord1400 said:

BTW, your idea for a new ability is amazing! You can turn into a battering ram and do finishers on everyone!

I'd prefer that instead of switching/cycling through abilities on her new 1, all she has to do to Dive Bomb is just Hold 1 or look down while pressing 1.

You're giving me so many ideas! Even though this most likely won't make it too the game, I can just imagine a Zephyr built for Duration running around with Gale Surge and Turbulence up with a Rush and Speed Drift on finishing everyone with a crit weapon. Awesome! Also, holding down 1/R1+X/RB+A (whatever platform you're on) would also be a viable alternative instead of aim-direction since it can be a bit screwed at times.

2 hours ago, Warlord1400 said:

I just want to make sure that it still absorbs elements, and it lightly ragdolls and drags enemies, with better targeting.

Whoops, totally forgot to add that piece in. Yeah, it should still absorb elements and has pull for ragdolling.

2 hours ago, Warlord1400 said:

Finally, my bit on new passives along with her current are:

• Damage reduction while airborne(10 to 20% is reasonable)
• Increased Damage while airborne(15% should be good)
• Increased Aim Glide Duration(x5 or infinite, like Loki has Wall Latch)

I also think some of the buffs should roll off into grounded combat, or have a recharge/reset mechanic the longer you stay airborne building up to peak buff, similar to snipers or Octavia's Metronome but with no downside. A 5-second duration should be good for the buff passives.

Wow, I actually like your idea for her passive a bit more than mine. How about something like the amount of time in the air determines the buff time on the ground by tripling the time in the air? I wouldn't want it to just reset, maybe just because I'd feel that DE would deem it too powerful, so instead we can have with a 5 second interval for reuse.

8 hours ago, Warlord1400 said:

I really love the concept of Zephyr, but her conception is now a novelty, despite Turbulence. Not only do I want to play her more, but I want her to be super good.

Plains of Eidolon is coming, we need a bird to trek the hell out of it. She can spam her 1 and go for kilometers, beating out Volt. She has to get a rework soon!

You are exactly right. Thanks for your excellent feedback!

8 hours ago, Inanegrain62 said:

Gale surge.... well, it could be something else, can't think of anything for myself. Should it be a toggle instead?

Toggles really weaken a ton of abilities. Not only will it effectively cost more energy, it will screw the rest of her kit if you want to build more towards Gale Surge.

[(XBOX)Drone A5R]

It will happen eventually, it’s probably the next rework if they don’t decide to skip her for some reason (she’s the second next prime)

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Who ever opposes the idea of divebomb and tail wind being put together? I think its kind of silly they were ever allowed to be seperate abilities. 

[Mudfam]

2 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Who ever opposes the idea of divebomb and tail wind being put together? I think its kind of silly they were ever allowed to be seperate abilities. 

It has been suggested a few times that aiming down and using tail wind should result in a divebomb, the problem with this is that you would no longer be able to fly down using tail wind without incuring the "self stun" from divebomb and keep moving.

I've suggested holding down the ability button to divebomb instead a couple of times, allowing you to aim it and possibly even bomb other surfaces, possibly enemies too. Not had anyone comment on it, but I'm not seeing a problem with this myself.

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Who ever opposes the idea of divebomb and tail wind being put together? I think its kind of silly they were ever allowed to be seperate abilities. 

Well nowadays? The creators. According to them, since Limbo got his new ability, after that point no frame reworks will get new abilities, all reworks will be within the confines of the existing frames.

Kinda depressing, because I had a lot of threads on the topic.

My favourite idea was to put Tailwind into her passive, keep the low gravity but if you charged up Jump for a second it would result in a Tailwind instead, improved version of course. So from the ground it would only deal as much damage as a Bullet Jump, which you can mod with the same mods, and in the air it would be a little much to have it deal damage, but it would still boost you. The improvements were things like unlocking the animation so that you could reload, cast while in motion, and use parkour if you hit an object, making it effectively a much longer Bullet Jump without removing Bullet Jump as an additional option, and making sure Zephyr could position herself without costing energy.

My best improvement was the idea that if you Tailwind to a walk-able surface, it cancels the movement. This way if you were annoyed that her low-grav passive left you floating then you can boost to the ground and just... walk out of it, or sprint out of it, anything, in fact it would be faster for navigating than any other frame because they have to fall at normal speed and land (heavily if they forget to compensate) while Tailwind as a passive would let you just hit the ground running.

Then I moved Dive Bomb down to her 1, gave it a ground function that made her jump a little forward and slam, so that it worked when there was low ceilings, but also whenever she was in the air an aiming reticule appeared on the floor up to a Range modded distance away from her (so no Dive Bombing the ceiling or anything silly like that, but able to target). This, coupled with a boost to her damage on it by making it scale off Melee mods and better scaling from height, would mean that it could actually kill enemies higher than level 30 reliably. Then a better system for the knock down (because the knock down Status can be interrupted by enemy animation, which makes it unreliable) so that over the limited range the CC was guaranteed... Not too shabby for a 1 ability.

And that would leave room for the new 2, whatever that would have been.

No loss in functions, only gains, easy to code, no issues with controls for the different platforms, and I would have been happy with whatever new 2 they gave her.

But... now I'm all depressed...

All our plans, just... poof! Up in smoke...

Ah well, at least I planned for that and did a full fix thread a while back that I've been working on ever since to get the potential out of her existing abilities and it's had enough time for DE to actually have read it...