War deserves to have a Prime

[Mintaro]

12 hours ago, phoenix1992 said:

War exists before Galentine prime, and the Galentine prime will get vaulted one day. Actually not that far away. 

Asking for Primes based on power creep is like asking for Warframe rivens.

I said passive not damage boost for starters and what exists before what doesn't matter War is sentient bones. It could actually be Hunhow's toe given to Stalker.

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

Let me explain you why war can be primed: it is a sentient weapon. If you wanna tell me it should be primed because the orokin actualy made them, you are wrong to. The Corpus and Grineer are descendents of the Orokin and the dont get their weapons primed   (exept latron wraith/prime and braton vandal/prime). So if you are asking to get War primed you are saying too you want a grakata prime too. And why, because earlier the were orokin.

[(PSN)xhris_white1994]

True Hunhow is involved in War if Lore made something a way to remove the energy or essence of Hunhow as somethings a corrupted weapon like War can be bathed and purified in light and besides the essence of that sword of Hunhow does has a weak spot to be cleansed ya'll just don't know about it my heart without a doubt that War can be separated from Hunhow grasp I'm sure the guys that created the game can agreed with me even if they don't agree it can be possible on War but if War can't be primed Hunhow's clutches with War can be possible to be separate not with Orokin but maybe light/energy of the Tenno to a reborn and a true potential War but hey that's my opinion by the why Thermalstone thx least I got someone who agrees with me and other that disagree that's ya'll's opinion not mine I just want War to be stronger and for it to get out of Hunhow's grasp cuz me I would of kill Hunhow with that sword if he was the last annoying being on this game he's more like Alan V and he's an insane psychopath but Hunhow he's more dim-headed or hard-headed that he is  but anyway there is a way for War to be renewed in a good way without Hunhow in it.

[(PSN)xhris_white1994]

thx Dark_Roxas

[(PSN)xhris_white1994]

14 hours ago, UmbraCorporation said:

If we get War Prime, we must also get Stalker Prime, Hunhow Prime, Lotus Prime, and Ordis Prime. 

XD

 

That can be possible UmbraCorporation.

[lukinu_u]

So basically, you want to break the lore to get a 3rd primed heavy blade, just because War is your preferate weapon ? Seems fair...

Considering sentient were initially created by orokin, it may not be too much lore breaking but would open a new dimension to how we see Sentients and Hunhow, that was born on Tau system and created the War himself probably dont have influence from orokins anymore, so it still somewhat lore breaking.

Plus, we only have 2 sentient weapons, so priming one of them would be a bit weird until we get more.

[(PSN)xhris_white1994]

It  can a possible way War to be in it's full potential without being prime and without Hunhow in it like it can be cleansed away from it's sins or be cleansed away from the devil/demon (which the demon is Hunhow).

[MickThejaguar]

....this level of bad grammar should be considered a hate crime.

[SenorClipClop]

War is not a Tenno/Orokin weapon, therefore the Prime treatment would be questionable at best.

Also, somehow the big long OP is a single sentence. I'm impressed, and appalled.

[Luther848]

On 10/11/2017 at 1:38 PM, Lakais said:

I don't think Prime trailers can be taken as fact. They are fancy, yes. But the content of those trailers does not prove chronology. Vauban and Valkyr fight what looks to be modern Corpus, same for Banshee and Nekros with the Grineer. Additionally, Titania should be a prime from the very start. She predates Saryn in a chronological sense. Question is, by how much. 

There's no lore reason why VaubanP and Valkyr (although I will admit her prime and Nova P for that matter don't make any sense lorewise) can't fight current enemies. The whole point of primes are that they are Orokin Relics which can only be built using parts from opened relics. The primes were created in the past but we found the blueprints and parts to create them now and they exist in the current time. 

I think the whole Titania thing is simply because DE releases the normal versions first, then release the primes in real life but with assumption that Primes exist but we the players don't have access to them yet.

Point is, Ballas's narration are about the Frame type, but not of the prime itself. 

I agree that SOME prime items are in essence "first generation" or somesuch. Ankyros and Burston are the ones who's descriptions clearly state that the Primes did come first. And in some items I am even not sure they match with the normal version, Sicarus for example. Though they are both three round burst pistols, their operating mechanism looks wildly different. Some of them are "first" most are ceremonial or simply mastercrafted veteran versions of existing equipment, refined and given an artist's touch.

The tenno probably make the normal weapons but might change something out of preference or just difficultly to recreate without the original blueprints. Also do you have any evidence to base the assumption that they are "ceremonial or simply mastercrafted veteran versions of existing equipment," I always thoought that Primes came first but the Tenno recreate them using more available materials that aren't quite as good as the originals.

Basically, "Prime" is a current era classification for any item that is made of Orokin era components or is made using Orokin era blueprints and that follows a set aesthetic design.

Finally, and this is just my opinion an view that base why I think this way is that I believe just blankly saying "Primes cames first." diminishes the concept or Prime. It narrows it down to such a bland and boring thing with little room for interesting implied developments. And most of them look like trash. 

If you believe that Primes are "any item that is made of Orokin era components or is made using Orokin era blueprints" then they would have to be first because there are no more Orokin (at least not any capable of creating anything from scratch) to create new primes only Primes we have and Primes we will have "discovered" in the future.

I think Vandals and Wraiths are suitable substitutes for Primes and DE could create a whole new Term for improved Sentient weapons. There just aren't enough Sentient weapons to really make it worthwhile.

 

[Lakais]

7 hours ago, Luther848 said:

 

Alright. I'm going to have to be holistic rather then going point by point (and also the quote function left the box blank so there's that). Also, damn blast from the past. 

My assumption about prime weapons being ceremonial or mastercraft is from the item description itself. Go to the codex, go to your arsenal, go to the damn wiki. The flavor text of MOST of the prime weapons clearly state that they are ceremonial, ornamental or mastercraft versions. A few items are ambiguous and maybe three or four can be interpreted as being "the first". Furthermore, some of these item descriptions state that they were made by "Tenno Artisans" meaning they were designed by TENNO, not Orokin. The techniques and tech to make new Prime style weapons might be lost or difficult to replicate, but not everything white and gold has an Orokin's signature. 

As for chronology, trailers and prime frames. I was merely responding to the implication that Executor Ballas, the Narrator in the trailers, was talking about the specific frame being shown in the trailer. To which my answer is "no". And Saryn predates Titania, which predates Saryn Prime, at least that is in my understanding and belief of how the interraction of primes and standard frames work. 

Also, I must remind you that we craft our prime items in a small foundry in the side of our ship. Frames and weapons, all are somehow assembled and crafted in that glorified 3-D printer. I also don't think blueprints are what we consider blueprints. They are a sort of framework or a scaffold that the foundry then layers the materials on top of to create the final product. Furthermore, I doubt the material costs marked are all the resources used in crafting. It seems likely to me that the foundry lists "rare and unique" resources that we have to squire. Simple materials like Iron and Carbon are always in stock, maintaining that stock is what the credits are for. Now I have no proof for this, but it makes considerably more sense then a frame being made out of two handfuls of plastids, a bushel of polymers and just as much ferrite as a gun. 

[Sloan441]

9 hours ago, Lakais said:

 

My assumption about prime weapons being ceremonial or mastercraft is from the item description itself. Go to the codex, go to your arsenal, go to the damn wiki. The flavor text of MOST of the prime weapons clearly state that they are ceremonial, ornamental or mastercraft versions. 

The problem is Steve himself referred to prime warframes and weapons as being the originals in a devstream. 

The real issue is where the garden variety variants came from. We simply don't know. There are some hints but they're vague to put it mildly and open to interpretation. 

How the Orokin actually employed their creations is almost entirely supposition with only a very few very vague remarks to go on. Also, the period of time involved might be very substantial and how the Orokin used the prime variants might very well have changed over that time interval. 

Edited November 16, 2017 by Sloan441
Clarity.

[Lakais]

51 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

The problem is Steve himself referred to prime warframes and weapons as being the originals in a devstream. 

The real issue is where the garden variety variants came from. We simply don't know. There are some hints but they're vague to put it mildly and open to interpretation. 

How the Orokin actually employed their creations is almost entirely supposition with only a very few very vague remarks to go on. Also, the period of time involved might be very substantial and how the Orokin used the prime variants might very well have changed over that time interval. 

Yes, Steve might of said that. But I honestly don't remember it personally and I think it very likely that it was an offhand comment made ages ago. I'm not about to go through 100 devstreams spanning four years just for this one comment. 

I find it much MUCH more believable, or to be more precise: sane, to believe that not everything has to be made by some Orokin Liberace turned gunsmith and everyone else took their designs and made them actually accessible. The Orokin empire was a very vast thing. It contained everything from the Orokin Lords to Ostron Clades to Archimedian Corpus groups to Dax groups to nearly unaffiliated colonies out in the sticks. The Empire was big and old. Plenty of sources for inspiration for any aspiring weapons designer of the time. 

[Sloan441]

12 minutes ago, Lakais said:

 Plenty of sources for inspiration for any aspiring weapons designer of the time. 

Keep in mind that much of the important Orokin tech was gene locked. It's very possible that the weapons we refer to as Orokin were purposely restricted to O-fficial forges and armories. 

It's fairly easy to copy weapons, but the infrastructure to produce them can be very difficult to reproduce or even match (historical example: the AR15 vs. the AR18--one was designed to use much more primitive tooling to produce, but functionally very similar). 

In the game, we have Orokin and tenno weapons. They're similar, but not quite the same. The Orokin ones are demonstrably superior. The reasons why are not apparent. Since the Orokin variants are the originals, the tenno ones are either rationalized wartime production variants, or simplified versions the tenno kept in production after the fall of the empire. It could also be these weapons were purposely dumbed down variants sold commercially, whereas the Prime variants were actual military issue. 

We simply don't know for sure. There are hints, but they can be interpreted many ways. 

[Lakais]

5 hours ago, Sloan441 said:

Keep in mind that much of the important Orokin tech was gene locked. It's very possible that the weapons we refer to as Orokin were purposely restricted to O-fficial forges and armories. 

It's fairly easy to copy weapons, but the infrastructure to produce them can be very difficult to reproduce or even match (historical example: the AR15 vs. the AR18--one was designed to use much more primitive tooling to produce, but functionally very similar). 

In the game, we have Orokin and tenno weapons. They're similar, but not quite the same. The Orokin ones are demonstrably superior. The reasons why are not apparent. Since the Orokin variants are the originals, the tenno ones are either rationalized wartime production variants, or simplified versions the tenno kept in production after the fall of the empire. It could also be these weapons were purposely dumbed down variants sold commercially, whereas the Prime variants were actual military issue. 

We simply don't know for sure. There are hints, but they can be interpreted many ways. 

A sharp stick is not that difficult to make. And the key feature of Tenno weaponry and the fight against the Sentients was making things as low-tech as possible. Normal line-soldiers wore what they called "zero tech" suits with mentions to "percussion rifles" which are, and I kid you not, muskets. But I admit all this is old lore but still kind of explains the visual theme of a lot of the early Tenno weapons. The Oldest lore, to be honest and as such I'm taking all this with a bit of salt.

We don't know the specifics of genelocking but it was likely tied to really important bits of infrastructure. Like Solar Rails and ships. Not to foundries and precision machines in some artisan's workshop.

To me, the answer to why Prime weapons are better then normal is an easy question to answer: They are mastercraft. They were made with much more care, with better materials and higher quality fittings. As you brought a real world equivalent. Now since I'm not american I can't physically do this and likely am partially talking out of my a**, but for the sake of example: comparing a standard issue off-the-rack military rifle to the same type of rifle but made by a gunsmith, with each part precision machined from much higher quality and more expensive materials, hand fitted components and every possible calibration done to a depressingly precise level and topped off with custom tooled ammo. 

They both work. It's just one of them has a bit of a leg-up. 

So once you think about it, there are clear reasons why Primes are better and not just "Because space magic and they got the number 1 printed on them because they first!" but simply because their parts are high quality. Something you would expect from a master craftsman. 

[Mr.SpookSpook]

On 10/11/2017 at 4:03 AM, (PS4)xhris_white1994 said:

 

If only your punctuation was as good as you wish War prime to be.

[Sloan441]

16 hours ago, Lakais said:

A sharp stick is not that difficult to make. 

Guns aren't sharp sticks. They're not terribly complex in and of themselves, but the infrastructure to make them can be. 

 

16 hours ago, Lakais said:

 Normal line-soldiers wore what they called "zero tech" suits with mentions to "percussion rifles" which are, and I kid you not, muskets. 

Non-powered body armor, presumably with the best materials technology available, which may have been considerable. They put the best they could out within the restrictions imposed by fighting the sentients. There's a big difference in cast iron as opposed to powdered metal additive technology and laser sintering. The term "percussion" used this way is peculiar. It could mean separate charge and primer such as inline rifles, or simply the fact you're using cartridges with a mechanical striker, like any modern rifle. I'd be inclined to assume the latter since there's no need for the former and when it comes to mechanical function there's no real difference other than the cartridge case. 

16 hours ago, Lakais said:

We don't know the specifics of genelocking but it was likely tied to really important bits of infrastructure. Like Solar Rails and ships. Not to foundries and precision machines in some artisan's workshop.

 

No, we don't. But we do know the Orokin were serious control freaks (like seriously totalitarian control freaks) and they probably did keep a very tight rein on weapons production. The whole VaubonP trailer deals with spying on corpus factories and slapping down offenders with what looks to be a license to kill with no bag limit. Also, you don't need artisans to make stuff with what looks to be nano-forges. You simply add feedstock and turn it loose--like we do on our Lisets. I'd be willing to bet the Orokin didn't just leave this stuff open to general use without restriction. It was probably very tightly controlled and what better way than gene-locking it to officially sanctioned operators. 

 

16 hours ago, Lakais said:

 

To me, the answer to why Prime weapons are better then normal is an easy question to answer: They are mastercraft. They were made with much more care, with better materials and higher quality fittings. 

The term "mastercraft" implies an individual whittling guns out of blocks of metal with files. While this can certainly be the case, and there are Real Life(tm) precedents (there's a cottage industry in the US making M1911s to very high standards, practically art), I doubt the Orokin equipped formations of warframes with hand-made weapons.

What it can mean is weapons made to a very high standard which for the US military is referred as a TDP or Technical Data Package. This is the means to which a manufacturer (corpus) makes weapons to meet specifications laid down by the military (Orokin Empire).

A modern example is the US service rifle, the M16, or more specifically, it's commercial variant, the AR15. The M16 are made to a TDP or the .mil has no interest in them. The commercial variants made to the TDP (Colt, for instance) perform like their .mil cousins (without select fire capability) and those not made to it generally do not (Olympic arms whose AR15s are notorious for unreliability--but they're much cheaper). 

All this stuff has multiple explanations and we don't have enough information in many cases to narrow down various interpretations. 

[low1991]

On 10/11/2017 at 10:05 AM, xXDeadsinxX said:

it's lore breaking. It heavily interferes with the lore.

For WF, the game generates the lore... and whatever the lore says doesn't mean it's true. Just like how Operator is a pile of S#&$.

[GemesX]

We alredy have Galatine prime and it is powerfull af.

[Ventura_Highway]

On 11/15/2017 at 12:42 AM, MickThejaguar said:

....this level of bad grammar should be considered a hate crime.

more like a War crime

[Grave.Knight]

How to make any weapon into a Prime:

Step 1. Buy the Orokin Color Palette.
Step 2. Color your weapon with Orokin Colors.
Step 3. You now have a "Prime" weapon.

[Milinko]

It doesn’t it can’t and it won’t it’s a sentient weapon and not a Tenno weapon 

[Phobonaut]

War Prime?

 

[LuckyCharm]

The war is already plenty strong. And they're buffing impact damage. So soon you'll have an op sword that bats enemies into orbit.

[Eljureo]

We have Galatine Prime... War is way better looking in its red/black form. Does not need to be primed.