Jump to content
Dante Unbound: Share Bug Reports and Feedback Here! ×

Universal hatred of all things Conclave


ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD
 Share

Recommended Posts

Why is it Conclave (pvp) is universally hated among the community to the point where many refuse to even talk about it? Everyone complains that it's terrible but don't want to discuss how it can be improved. The community just wants to abandon it, or so it would seem. On top of that the typical negativity given in responses when PvP is brought up anywhere puts off new players just starting their journey in Warframe, and encourages them to not even give it a chance. I've created new threads asking this before and all I ever seem to get in response is something along the lines of "lel it's bad idiot don't play it" and that's basically it. (I've learned not to expect much from the majority of this game's community, everyone seems to have the same mindset and think alike, and those who don't are bashed)

On the other side what I've noticed is that the PvP community (or what's left of it) seems to just brush off the hate and label those who don't like the mode as players that just struggle in it. Which is understandable, I've met countless players who spread hate and label conclave as a bad game mode simply because they're bad at it and don't want to put the time into it to get better (and anyone who is good is "just a tryhard"). I used to dislike it too until I put the time in and got better at it. It's got a learning curve, you get out of it what you choose to put into it.

Anyway, I reiterate, why is conclave hated and neglected by the community? Why is it nobody wants to give it a chance and see it improve? It does have problems, but not to the point where it needs to just be abandoned and left to die. Every game has it's problems. PvE has it's problems too.

I don't know, more than likely just going to get sheit on for this thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why is it Conclave (pvp) is universally hated among the community to the point where many refuse to even talk about it? Everyone complains that it's terrible but don't want to discuss how it can be improved. The community just wants to abandon it, or so it would seem. On top of that the typical negativity given in responses when PvP is brought up anywhere puts off new players just starting their journey in Warframe, and encourages them to not even give it a chance. I've created new threads asking this before and all I ever seem to get in response is something along the lines of "lel it's bad idiot don't play it" and that's basically it. (I've learned not to expect much from the majority of this game's community, everyone seems to have the same mindset and think alike, and those who don't are bashed)

On the other side what I've noticed is that the PvP community (or what's left of it) seems to just brush off the hate and label those who don't like the mode as players that just struggle in it. Which is understandable, I've met countless players who spread hate and label conclave as a bad game mode simply because they're bad at it and don't want to put the time into it to get better (and anyone who is good is "just a tryhard"). I used to dislike it too until I put the time in and got better at it. It's got a learning curve, you get out of it what you choose to put into it.

Anyway, I reiterate, why is conclave hated and neglected by the community? Why is it nobody wants to give it a chance and see it improve? It does have problems, but not to the point where it needs to just be abandoned and left to die. Every game has it's problems. PvE has it's problems too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, ThaT_WHiTE_KiiD said:

I don't know, more than likely just going to get sheit on for this thread.

Nah you're fine!
It's just a touchy subject for a lot of players. For what reason I couldn't tell you.

Spoiler

It really might just come down to DE's habit of abandoning projects. I remember when Archwing for example had consistent support. There was always something happening as the months went by, either with events, new weapons, and so on.

But as time goes by and they slowly fizzle out of the gamemode, by nature it starts to get dated from the rest of the game, hence alot of the distaste for it.


As a casual Conclave guy myself, I fell in-love with it because of how much it parallels with 2D fighting games, i.e. BlazBlue, Guilty Gear, etc. A lot of it has to do with finesse and twitch fast reactions. The speed, flexibility, and natural progression is nothing I've ever played before when it comes to this genre.

Because of this, unfortunately, is almost the antithesis from the main game. Where it rely's significantly less on those qualities (though still present), and more towards micromanagement and artificial progression via Ranking, Mastery, and so on. Not implying there isn't this natural skill-based progression like the former, but there is a less emphasis on it and that's perfectly okay.

Personally, I hope more players will learn to be a bit less harsh when discussing these kind of topics and be more open to ideas and suggestions to change for the better. Because these gamemodes are here to stay, so we might as well be on the same team and try to make it better, yes? (:

Edited by HalfDarkShadow
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Conclave lacks actual balance. 

With so many weapons and warframes it is just a tangled mess.

==

If DE wants to improve conclave they will remove everything from it. 

Make all  warframes purely cosmetic - and give each team preset abilities. 
Where you get points to earn items like cosmetics or resources or relic packs. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My hate is from pvp in any game and that is the risk of cheaters and that ruin any fun.  The last few years only pvp I did was world of tanks but before that I really haven't played much pvp sence medal of honor allied assault. Ones I started with mmorpg and got away for cheaters it got so much more fun to play.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't like PvP. It has nothing to do with my potential success or failure in it. It has nothing to do with the specific implementation Warframe has. I simply don't find PvP in general interesting.

The fact Warframe has it is irrelevant to me. I'll never try it. 

I don't go out of my way to bash it, I don't have any basis on which to bash it. 

But hey, you asked, here's my opinion you asked for. 

Edit: I did not just go out of my way to see this. It was moved from General Discussion. 

Edited by Kinetos
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Both sides tend to have an either/or mentality on PvP. The truth is that whether or not PvP is fun is completely subjective, so try to keep these two points in mind.

• PvP fans liking the game mode does not make it good.
• PvP detractors not liking the game mode does not make it bad.

You are free to enjoy it. However, no amount of debate will make players that don't enjoy it change their mind. Even if you accuse those players of just not being good at it.

That said, I hope that those that enjoy it either don't give up on it, or return to it. There is nothing wrong with a game mode having a niche fanbase.

Edited by MisterUltimate
Clarified opening statement.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a player of middling skill that spent the time to max out conclave's syndicate and grab almost everything Teshin has to offer,

As well as a player that has witnessed many PVE games try to grab a slice of that sweet E-sports PVP pie,

Conclave has made monumental changes and improvements to itself over its lifetime, but I find it really hard to shake the notion that PVP being stapled onto a PVE - centric game is a fundamentally flawed pursuit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In all the games I've played in my 40 years of gaming (yes, started with Pong), I have never seen a game that does both PvE and PvP correctly at the same time. It's either/or.

While the Warframe PvP is not as bad as most PvE games, it still lacks a good bit of balance. Given that the majority of players are here for Co-Op PvE, I highly doubt that PvP will evolve much, or slowly if it does. To make PvP viable, DE would have to take the diversity away from the game. ie, make everyone equal on Frame/Weapon/Mods. Then it is a contest of player skill (which is what PvP is). To do that, takes away what Warframe is.

Most have come to the conclusion that the true test of a player's skill is not beating another player, but rather, being able to work with any and all players to overcome any and all goals/missions through the Co-Op play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Axton said:

More like preset loadouts exclusive for Conclave, or a mode that enables this. No mods, just loadouts. 

E.x. Excal with starter weapons, Volt with starter weapons, and Mag or Loki with starter weapons.

Remove the core bits of Warframe? This will make Conclave more liked?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Jakorak said:

As a player of middling skill that spent the time to max out conclave's syndicate and grab almost everything Teshin has to offer,

As well as a player that has witnessed many PVE games try to grab a slice of that sweet E-sports PVP pie,

Conclave has made monumental changes and improvements to itself over its lifetime, but I find it really hard to shake the notion that PVP being stapled onto a PVE - centric game is a fundamentally flawed pursuit.

Then go back in time and tell the people whining at DE to add PvP that they are wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

WF is a....okay, it used to be a co-op game--but it was never intended to have a PvP element. In early Devstreams DE actually said as much. As years passed they changed their mind, and bolted Conclave on. But it's audience is extremely limited - less than 2% of players play it according to DE's most recent numbers.

I've also spoken to a handful of Tenno who have tried it, and they all report getting wrecked by other Tenno who either have vastly better skills, or were using hax. Either way, getting your a$$ shot off -repeatedly- doesn't sound like fun.

Conclave players are very vocal, and very protective of their corner of Warframe, but there just aren't very many other Tenno that want to share their little world with them.

Edited by FierceRadiance
Link to comment
Share on other sites

because the people who play conclave and the rest of warframe's playerbase can likely never come to a consensus on how to "fix"it. people who PLAY conclave think it's perfect, and any time a non-pvper comes by with a suggestion, it's often shot down with a vengeance.

Popular complaints are:

Conclave is based too much on high-speed frantic combat: countered with "this is what makes conclave unique, don't kill our gamemode"

cheese tactics: countered with "git gud"

the time it takes to take a warframe from full health to none is too low: also countered with "git gud"

in short: the PvP playerbase (who, admittedly, probably deserves more say in conclave matters than us) doesn't take kindly to the mere mention of improving the system, to the point that they'll even fight tooth and nail to keep the greatest conclave reward(the syandana) an endless grind just to upkeep, much less obtain (let's face it, the grind to get it should be enough grind to get it as it is displayed in the preview window; and doing so would likely raise the popularity of conclave, which you'd think should be good, but...)

The largest plague going against conclave improvement is population. If matches were sorted so you were playing against people who had a similar skill level as you, it would be much better. However, the moment you leave the recruit conditioning mode (which you sometimes have to do anyways to find matches, even when below rank 2 with teshin) you are placed in matches mostly containing typhoons, and experienced ones at that--because that's the vast majority of the conclave population. Even then, there's rarely more than a few different public matches going on at any one time(on my servers/during my playtime anyways), so there wouldn't be a large enough pool of players to even make use of intelligent matchmaking. Worst part is, conclave has remained mostly dead for so long that I doubt there's anything DE can do to fix it.

 

On a positive note, I will say that the Tactical Alert Gamemodes that DE makes (especially the hearts & arrows event) were alot more fun to me. First of all, you've got more people of more skill levels competing, for snappy matchmaking times and a better experience for scrubs like me who can't play conclave as well as the usual people I'm up against. You've also got a set loadout: you can take whatever warframe you want into the match, but you won't have abilities and will always have the same amount of health, so your chosen warframe is just a cosmetic, and you're handed your weapons at the start of the match. Since everyone has the same weapons, and everyone has the same stats, everyone's on an even playing field. It's more about who actually has more skill and less about who has a cheesy tactic you're poor at countering.

Unfortunately, PvP tactical alerts get a lot of flak from the playerbase, so I'm not sure DE will continue releasing them except once in a blue moon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, HalfDarkShadow said:

Nah you're fine!
It's just a touchy subject for a lot of players. For what reason I couldn't tell you.

  Reveal hidden contents

It really might just come down to DE's habit of abandoning projects. I remember when Archwing for example had consistent support. There was always something happening as the months went by, either with events, new weapons, and so on.

But as time goes by and they slowly fizzle out of the gamemode, by nature it starts to get dated from the rest of the game, hence alot of the distaste for it.


As a casual Conclave guy myself, I fell in-love with it because of how much it parallels with 2D fighting games, i.e. BlazBlue, Guilty Gear, etc. A lot of it has to do with finesse and twitch fast reactions. The speed, flexibility, and natural progression is nothing I've ever played before when it comes to this genre.

Because of this, unfortunately, is almost the antithesis from the main game. Where it rely's significantly less on those qualities (though still present), and more towards micromanagement and artificial progression via Ranking, Mastery, and so on. Not implying there isn't this natural skill-based progression like the former, but there is a less emphasis on it and that's perfectly okay.

Personally, I hope more players will learn to be a bit less harsh when discussing these kind of topics and be more open to ideas and suggestions to change for the better. Because these gamemodes are here to stay, so we might as well be on the same team and try to make it better, yes? (:

That makes sense. However, considering DE makes subtle changes to Conclave with close to every update, I wouldn't consider them to be abandoning it, more so the playerbase. I agree, we might as well make the best of these modes (archwing included) because they're here to stay, as you said. And yeah man, I'm interested in it for the same reason, I love fighting games and fast paced arena shooters. Too bad they're not as popular anymore, I'm kind of young so I missed the golden age of arena shooters and fighting games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, xxswatelitexx said:

Conclave lacks actual balance. 

With so many weapons and warframes it is just a tangled mess.

==

If DE wants to improve conclave they will remove everything from it. 

Make all  warframes purely cosmetic - and give each team preset abilities. 
Where you get points to earn items like cosmetics or resources or relic packs. 

I agree wholeheartedly, PvP would be significantly better without abilities (especially those that cause stunlock). It would be a better experience and a more skill based experience if it was focused purely on the movement and gunplay. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Spartan336 said:

I think it's because it feels so different form other PvP games. 

True, I've heard that from a lot of players. Not saying people have to play it, just don't see why people need to hate on it and the players that enjoy it. The PvP community is small as is, it doesn't help when vets spread negativity about it to new players.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, MisterUltimate said:

Both sides tend to have an either/or mentality on PvP. The truth is that whether or not PvP is fun is completely subjective, so try to keep these two points in mind.

• PvP fans liking the game mode does not make it good.
• PvP detractors not liking the game mode does not make it bad.

You are free to enjoy it. However, no amount of debate will make players that don't enjoy it change their mind. Even if you accuse those players of just not being good at it.

That said, I hope that those that enjoy it either don't give up on it, or return to it. There is nothing wrong with a game mode having a niche fanbase.

I agree, debate won't change people's minds on the subject. However, the purpose of this thread wasn't simply to debate whether or not PvP is good in the game. It was to question why it's so hated by the majority of the community. When the vets spread hate of the mode, it gives it a bad reputation and steers new players away from it. Considering the PvP playerbase is already so small, that's kind of a problem. But there's also other reasons new players steer away from it, like tryhards farming them.

I think if PvP was more talked about (positively) DE would put more attention towards it and make much needed changes to make it a far better experience, not just for the current PvP playerbase but for new players or vets trying it out as well. Truth is the mode is very flawed and not in a very good state at the moment, even the players that enjoy it (like myself) recognize that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

In all the games I've played in my 40 years of gaming (yes, started with Pong), I have never seen a game that does both PvE and PvP correctly at the same time. It's either/or.

While the Warframe PvP is not as bad as most PvE games, it still lacks a good bit of balance. Given that the majority of players are here for Co-Op PvE, I highly doubt that PvP will evolve much, or slowly if it does. To make PvP viable, DE would have to take the diversity away from the game. ie, make everyone equal on Frame/Weapon/Mods. Then it is a contest of player skill (which is what PvP is). To do that, takes away what Warframe is.

Most have come to the conclusion that the true test of a player's skill is not beating another player, but rather, being able to work with any and all players to overcome any and all goals/missions through the Co-Op play.

This is my favorite post in this thread, you did a really good job of answering my question, thank you. But there is one thing, PvP is already evolving, just at a very slow rate. The devs do make small changes to it with near every update, they're just so small you'd have to read the patch notes to even realize they're there, really. Other than that I understand what you're saying and can agree with it for sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Axton said:

To answer this question,

Conclave exclusive mods ruin it for me. There isn't any balance either. You can go in as a new player without any mods and be demolished by someone who nolifes conclave. (*I don't see anyone doing that, but who knows*)

Yeah recruit conditioning does a really poor job of keeping tryhards from farming new players. All it really does in my opinion is divide the community, and with the PvP playerbase already being so small that's not doing it any good. I keep my rank at whirlwind just so I can ensure I can find a match when I want to play. If I can't find one with the filter off, I can turn it on and still find a match, on top of that I can play with anyone in the community I want instead of being restricted after ranking up too far.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Emolition said:

My hate is from pvp in any game and that is the risk of cheaters and that ruin any fun.  The last few years only pvp I did was world of tanks but before that I really haven't played much pvp sence medal of honor allied assault. Ones I started with mmorpg and got away for cheaters it got so much more fun to play.   

Yeah cheaters are a problem even in PvP games with such small playerbases like Warframe's PvP.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...