Game Difficulty For New Players

[Aerroon]

Hello,

 

I've been playing this game for a while and I decided to make a new account to try out some stuff. I was clearing out areas and I finished Mercury and Venus pretty much (decided to skip the Jackal because the only way I'm killing him is if I get a good group).

 

So I picked Loki as my warframe because some on the forums claim he's not bad at all. Anyways, I got to Earth and my first infested mission. It was a sabotage mission so I only had to destroy one tank. I take 10 steps and the Lotus says "Exterminate all life on this vessel." I figure that my life might've got a little easier but I was so wrong. I kill a few chargers etc and then I have an ancient healer run towards me. Then a 2nd one. In the next 2 minutes I was essentially running from around 3 healers and about 8 toxic ancients - now how is a new player supposed to handle a situation like this? Let alone the fact that they probably don't know what any of the ancients do there is no way for him to kill anything except small enemies now.

 

It takes a full magazine of the braton mk-1 to kill a toxic ancient but this is ONLY if they aren't getting healspammed by healers, which they were, meaning it was impossibly for me to kill any of the ancients - what the hell are you supposed to do there?

 

In general it seems that damage is INCREDIBLY lacking for new players because 1. they don't have any damage mods and 2. their weapons aren't very good.

 

/End rant about how difficulty for new players is ridiculous because they don't deal any damage.

[NanoTheBandit]

Well, if the game is getting tough for you. You can re-run the past levels for mods and/or try to farm Rhino WF parts of off Jackal and Seer parts from Vor.

 

 

Don't forget about those trusty mods :)

Edited July 24, 2013 by John-Carsal

[Aerroon]

Well, if the game is getting tough for you. You can re-run the past levels for mods and/or try to farm Rhino WF parts of off Jackal and Seer parts from Vor.

 

 

Don't forget about those trusty mods :)

So, essentially, what you're saying is that someone who starts out has to backtrack and start farming some missions (they probably can't even solo) to try to go further in the game?

 

And it doesn't really help a whole lot in terms of mods - they drop way more elsewhere so you'd be increasing their playtime (farm time) for nothing.

[Shion963]

So, essentially, what you're saying is that someone who starts out has to backtrack and start farming some missions (they probably can't even solo) to try to go further in the game?

 

And it doesn't really help a whole lot in terms of mods - they drop way more elsewhere so you'd be increasing their playtime (farm time) for nothing.

 

You expect to be able to blaze through levels without levelling or modding your weapons? :/

 

There's no shame in staying at Mercury to level your weapons or get some mods to start out. Rushing ahead would get you killed fast, especiall if you approach areas with enemies that vastly outlevel you.

 

And your first Infested is in Earth? What happened to Mercury - Lares? Progression in Warframe is measured in how many weapons you've maxed, and what mods you have. Not how much of the maps you have unlocked.

[LostWhisper]

I will admit I experienced something like this and something should be done. When running in a group of 4 in an infested mission we were happily killing when in the space of about 10 seconds 6 healers ran round a corner along with a toxic and some chargers. We tried as we might to kill them, didn't succeed so I told everyone to run on past them to extraction. We did and that was the end of that. We were lucky; we weren't required to kill them. If we had, we'd have had to quit.

Something needs to be implemented so that multiple (maybe no more than 3?) healers can appear be in a tile in certain maps. Or, make it so that no matter how many are there, the healing ticks created by them only amount to an effect as if 3 were there, even if there were more than 3. The only situation I feel more than that should be allowed would be defence in my opinion.

Thoughts?

[BeerDone]

(they probably can't even solo)

They probably should not even solo. What is this fetish with Warframe's players to game all alone? It's a co-op game, a four player co-op game, hit online, join a squad, and nick some experience from the teammates, you dolt!

 

Alright, fair enough, giving the benefit of the doubt, earlier levels were designed for skill trees rather than an entirely mod-based upgrade system, perhaps the going can get tough. Although, having to use Lato now because I haven't before, it's a bloody good sidearm, potentially better than the measly Mark 1 Braton, try shooting 'em with that.

Edited July 24, 2013 by BeerDone

[Chris9428]

They probably should not even solo. What is this fetish with Warframe's players to game all alone? It's a co-op game, a four player co-op game, hit online, join a squad, and nick some experience from the teammates, you dolt!

Well, when you're playing solo you can play after your rules :P

 

When you want to rush through a mission, then you can rush through one.

When you want to explore, then you can explore a mission.

When you decide to run around and take some fancy pictures of the landscape, then you're gonna do that.

When you're looking for bugs on purpose, then you might be able to do that as well.

When you want to make a video without anyone interrupting you, then you're free to go.

 

Most people don't have friends to play the game.

 

Though, I played the first 100 hours of the game with 2 mates.

[HomeyCDawg]

Yeah this game was pretty easy on veterans before, and now it's rough on newbies. Hey at least they had the sense to remove nightmare missions from Mercury.

 

The biggest complaint I have regarding the game for new players is that the lowest planet to get control modules is Europa, so no player is going to be able to build their first farmed frame until they have enough weapons and leveled mods to handle level 40 enemies. That's a pretty steep wall to climb just to unlock a second character.

[Shion963]

They probably should not even solo. What is this fetish with Warframe's players to game all alone? It's a co-op game, a four player co-op game, hit online, join a squad, and nick some experience from the teammates, you dolt!

 

Everyone's free to choose. Some want to solo through the entire game, and are fully prepared to go to lengths to accomplish it. They know full well what gear to carry at what rank, and how modded it needs to be to complete missions.

 

OP can't even solo Jackal. If that's not a sign of being unprepared to tougher areas, I don't know what is. And he tries to blame it on how new players won't have good mods or good weapons, yet insists on carrying a Braton Mk-I, and plain refuses to 'backtrack' to lower levelled areas to level weapons or collect mods.

[Mak_Gohae]

This isnt new and this really isnt about difficulty, this is about Loki.... Loki has no damaging abilities.

This is why he is described being for ADVANCED! Players. With Loki you are going to have to do a little extra to get stuff done if you are going solo.

[Cat_Has_My_Pipe]

This isnt new and this really isnt about difficulty, this is about Loki.... Loki has no damaging abilities.

This is why he is described being for ADVANCED! Players. With Loki you are going to have to do a little extra to get stuff done if you are going solo.

 

This, why would you try to solo with Loki? Would have been better going with Excalibur. 

[Aerroon]

This isnt new and this really isnt about difficulty, this is about Loki.... Loki has no damaging abilities.

This is why he is described being for ADVANCED! Players. With Loki you are going to have to do a little extra to get stuff done if you are going solo.

 

Go on then, explain to us how Loki is useful. Give us examples of where you would in the game ever want Loki instead of something else if he isn't even good enough to solo missions. Loki is trash. That's pretty much the end of it.

 

Also, the cool thing with "getting mods" is that you tend to get more mods the higher level enemies you kill, right? So how are you supposed to get those "damaging mods" to get through all of the stuff now? Stuff like that is rather rare in terms of drops in Mercury and Venus. And I'm not really saying it's impossible to solo Jackal but it probably would be for a new player.

 

Sure, I can solo Jackal, but then again, I can go kill raptor on my other account without using any mods on my frame either. The problem is ammo and weapon damage. How are you supposed to get over hurdles that are "gear checks" when you haven't even had the opportunity to start getting those kinds of things? Warframe and most weapons are level 11, so far I have got one damage mod in total: no return (5% armor penetration damage on sidearm).

 

The game is way way harder at the start than when you've played it for a while, especially now.

 

 

 

Oh and why am I soloing? It's simple: not everybody lives in America or some region that's really populated with people who have decent everything. Most of the time even with a 300 ping limit it is very difficult for me to find a match and half the time I do it's a massive lagfest. You either go solo and sometimes get other people or you wait there for 40 minutes until someone starts doing the same mission you've selected, especially when dealing with low level missions.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Aerroon

[arch111]

I have read this before, and after U9 even mercury was hard for beginners.

De have since toned down Mercury and Venus.

The thing i heard before is that new players must stay

in the 2 first planets for a long time, until a Braton can be bought.

Either that or be carried. But i get that this is a problem, hence the solo play.

I actually think you do a good thing, trying on the newb shoes.

This is how both DE, and the community finds out of what needs to be adressed.

So, hats off to you!

Edited July 24, 2013 by arch111

[ShadowTail]

I will admit I experienced something like this and something should be done. When running in a group of 4 in an infested mission we were happily killing when in the space of about 10 seconds 6 healers ran round a corner along with a toxic and some chargers. We tried as we might to kill them, didn't succeed so I told everyone to run on past them to extraction. We did and that was the end of that. We were lucky; we weren't required to kill them. If we had, we'd have had to quit.

Something needs to be implemented so that multiple (maybe no more than 3?) healers can appear be in a tile in certain maps. Or, make it so that no matter how many are there, the healing ticks created by them only amount to an effect as if 3 were there, even if there were more than 3. The only situation I feel more than that should be allowed would be defence in my opinion.

Thoughts?

Tackling multiple ancients in a group:

It requires a skill called TEAMWORK. Not everyone possesses it. But one can learn.

But basically one player kites the flock of shee... ancients while the others isolate one ancient after the other and dispose of it.

It really is as simple as that.

[Aerroon]

Tackling multiple ancients in a group:

It requires a skill called TEAMWORK. Not everyone possesses it. But one can learn.

But basically one player kites the flock of shee... ancients while the others isolate one ancient after the other and dispose of it.

It really is as simple as that.

You know, that's all well and good, but you have to remember that you're asking someone new to kite multiple ancients very very far away so the heals don't reach and it's not always doable if you get unlucky with the tileset or where those enemies are.

 

Game is way way easier at higher levels, which seems kind of wrong.

 

 

 

I have read this before, and after U9 even mercury was hard for beginners.

De have since toned down Mercury and Venus.

The thing i heard before is that new players must stay

in the 2 first planets for a long time, until a Braton can be bought.

Either that or be carried. But i get that this is a problem, hence the solo play.

I actually think you do a good thing, trying on the newb shoes.

This is how both DE, and the community finds out of what needs to be adressed.

So, hats off to you!

Thanks, this is part of the reason why I did it - I wanted to know what it would feel like to start. I mainly picked Loki because that's the frame I originally picked when I started and wanted to compare my experience. While it was difficult sort of I never experienced something as severe as this. Although back then I hadn't experienced what COULD be done in the game so maybe I was a little more patient.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Aerroon

[Letter13]

Think of it like a Final Fantasy game.

 

If you try to play through it without spending some time to get better gear and level up, you're gonna have a bad time.

[Definitegj]

Supposed to kill the ancients 1 by 1. It's just partly bad luck and partly running around to avoid battle that make so many of them get together. 

Edited July 25, 2013 by Definitegj

[Shion963]

Think of it like a Final Fantasy game.

 

If you try to play through it without spending some time to get better gear and level up, you're gonna have a bad time.

 

Reminds me of my naive days, thinking that I could rush through Final Fantasy V for the story by avoiding random battles.

Guess who got a weak underlevelled team who can't win against Exdeath in the end? This guy. o/

 

 

Also, the cool thing with "getting mods" is that you tend to get more mods the higher level enemies you kill, right? So how are you supposed to get those "damaging mods" to get through all of the stuff now? Stuff like that is rather rare in terms of drops in Mercury and Venus. And I'm not really saying it's impossible to solo Jackal but it probably would be for a new player.

 

Sure, I can solo Jackal, but then again, I can go kill raptor on my other account without using any mods on my frame either. The problem is ammo and weapon damage. How are you supposed to get over hurdles that are "gear checks" when you haven't even had the opportunity to start getting those kinds of things? Warframe and most weapons are level 11, so far I have got one damage mod in total: no return (5% armor penetration damage on sidearm).

 

The game is way way harder at the start than when you've played it for a while, especially now.

 

Mods drop randomly anywhere, I once got Flow from doing a stupid extermination run in Mercury, or got a total of three enemy-dropped mods in a Void game. More mission = more mods. Less mission = less mods. "You get less/weaker mods at low level planets" is a silly excuse of someone refusing to look for the mods in the first place.

 

Your main account means naff if you complain about how your alt (or "new player") is weak due to your own laziness. A new player wouldn't rush to get to high-level areas without gathering mods and levelling weapons, or without at previously unlocked areas more than once. That's a stupid player.

 

Piercing Hit, Magazine Warp, Ammo Drum  are all common corpus drops. Go farm Venus.

[Cat_Has_My_Pipe]

I do agree with the op on one point, having a large amount of Ancient Healers is really annoying. I would consider it more frustrating than challenging. 

[Aizeol]

As far as the amount of Ancients are concerned: That is an issue that needs tweaking. Simply putting a cap on how many can spawn given a player's level/frame/equipment would be enough. DE already has those metrics, so it shouldn't require and extreme effort.

As far as the whole "Backtracking" is concerned: You know what "grinding" is right? It's a little strange to find that in a third-person shooter, but it is free-to-play. Grinding is kinda the bread and butter of both Free-to-Play and MMO style games. When used correctly, it can be used to make a game experience that would be <10hrs expanded to >100hrs and feel awesome. Sadly, when it's used incorrectly it can make the most fun game feel like a chore.

[Ventias]

i never soloed wen i was a new player...

[EetNotErn]

Eh. I only started playing this game a less than 2 months and I remember when I started that I didn't have too much trouble with the difficulty. The thing is that I didn't go solo for the more difficult  or just leveled up a little more in the easier areas. It really wasn't much of a grind either.

 

And just like the OP I even went ahead and made a completely new frame, weapons and sentinel to start fresh all over again and had no problems because I'm a lot more experienced this time around. I think the issue isn't difficulty but impatience

[KingTaro]

New players will get the feeling that the game isn't meant to be played solo later on.

And I believe that's the intention of the DE.

 

The reason why the missions are easy in the beginning is most likely to give you some time to go solo and get used to the game on your own pace.

[Orovo]

I made this account after update 8 to see how it felt to be a new player and I picked Loki. I picked Mag the first time, and Loki just seemed so much more powerful. I'm not sure if the difficulty for lower level planets changed greatly from update 8 to now but I don't remember it being that difficult. On infested maps, even though I died/ran out of ammo a few times, it still seemed like the right level of difficulty since I was just trying to quickly unlock the star map.

 

The great thing about Loki is being able to go invisible - granting bonus charge damage and conserving ammo. This also allows him to solo certain bosses earlier on. I went Skana > Cronus > Dark Sword (from an alert) so I was doing pretty good single target damage even without Killing Blow, which I didn't find until much, much later. Even if a new player doesn't get a decent melee weapon from an alert, they can still buy Dual Heat Swords/Dual Ether, which are arguably better than Dark Sword. Toxics were still a problem - one that I had to spend a whole magazine and a decoy on. I remember getting Flow on Venus though, so energy wasn't a big issue.

 

Mag was (still is, most likely) even harder to play for a new player. I imagine Excalibur has the easiest time, being able to slash dash through Ancients like a knife through butter. I'm not sure how much things have changed since U8 though, so maybe I'll make a new account and try Excal sometime in the future.

[Cat_Has_My_Pipe]

Mag was (still is, most likely) even harder to play for a new player. I imagine Excalibur has the easiest time, being able to slash dash through Ancients like a knife through butter. I'm not sure how much things have changed since U8 though, so maybe I'll make a new account and try Excal sometime in the future.

 

Excalibur is good if you don't get bum rushed by an army of disruptors.

 

Which you will.