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Zenurick is awful now


raven2k01
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3 minutes ago, PhillipJokar said:

Jesus, what did you people do before focus?...

Focus has been around for two years now, plenty of these people have been in game for quite a while with it existing... Me? I'm an old, old hand, so I'm at home in pretty much any changing landscape of the game now, but these young'uns? Nah, can't take change.

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1 minute ago, Thaylien said:

Focus has been around for two years now, plenty of these people have been in game for quite a while with it existing... Me? I'm an old, old hand, so I'm at home in pretty much any changing landscape of the game now, but these young'uns? Nah, can't take change.

Imagine my horror when I found out how few people have seen a Trinity these days.

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Just now, PhillipJokar said:

Imagine my horror when I found out how few people have seen a Trinity these days.

Then you can probably imagine mine when people say that Radial Javelin has 'always' been Excal's worst ability... Or that Saryn's 4 is too weak, it needs to have inverse duration functions like Trinity's 2.

Actually, no, best one I've heard was the first time I ever tried teaching a new player to play, they told me it used more life support in Survival if you Sprinted, that's why they walked everywhere.

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41 minutes ago, PhillipJokar said:

Jesus, what did you people do before focus?...

 Maybe those team energy restore blueprints will get some much needed work now.

We used siphon and syndicats ^^

Also EV trinity

Edited by Soketsu
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Doing Energizing Dash every 30 seconds is a bad thing how now?   In a fast-paced game like Warframe, 30 seconds feels like a long time. After some hours of doing it, it is now part of my muscle memory, I do it instinctively just like it was learning how to bulletjump when parkour 2.0 was introduced.

And being able to give energy to moving teammates like this for free any time, that's just great since energy pads cost resources and make you wait next to them to not waste their pulses too much.

I wish it was the Unbindable way-bound skill of Zenurik, though. But all in all, I very much like how the schools have been re-done. 
For me, Naramon is now the school that offers absolutely nothing that synchronizes with my playstyle. Every other school has some abilities I intend to fully use.

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I really don't get why many people in this thread keep talking about ability spam, as spamming was and still is possible, regardless of Zenurik.

The real usefulness of old Zenurik for me though was the constand tickle of energy that kicked in as soon as you lost all of your energy at once, be it by leechers or a heavy hit in higher level content. Squishy Frames that use QT used to get a bit of energy back right after they got hit, which made them waaay more durable.

To achieve this, I have to activate Zenurik all the time even when on full energy - although I dont need x amount of energy (got enough from energize set anyways to cast now and then) - quite stupid.

But probably all those who keep telling how great new Zenurik is probably ARE ability spammers, as they can spam even more than before...Job well done DE :(

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On 10/15/2017 at 1:11 AM, RobWasHere said:

Energising dash is pretty the same energy regen as before, but you also give it to the team. Just need to rememeber to pop up to operator each 20-30s. I hated it in start, but quickly got used to it.

I got used to it. But now past that and I'm fed up with it.

I'm finding constantly popping in and out of operator mode tedious and annoying. There is too much fiddling to line it up and make it work. I'm constantly dashing out of the circle, or going into operator mode, jumping instead of dashing for my recharge and flipping back into my warframe with no actual benefit, just wasted time. But since I'm out of energy, here we go again!

It might have been simpler and less frustrating to control if they had just assigned operator abilities to the 1,2,3,4 keys like y'know, every other mode in the game. But no, Operator had to be different, including when it didn't make sense. I'm serious here. Why develop your player's muscle memory when you're just gonna scrap it on the later, touchier, more fragile character modes.

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On 10/15/2017 at 9:54 AM, Cyriann said:

Your right, the hardest part is to get used to not regenerate energy as fast as before. 

Personally I found that almost limitless energy almost too much, fun as hell sure but sometimes I could see that it was a  it detrimental to the game. After all you aren't supposed to be able to cast an ability  ousting over 135 twelve times un a row and still have enough energy to plant a shield a zap 5 enemies as Volt Prime. 

The nerf isn't all that bad even though it reduced the "overwhelming enemies with power" that defines the Zenurik school. 

actualy. when you max energizing dash you get 5 energy per second for 30 seconds...... which is MORE energy per second than old zenurik for the cost of having to operator every 30 seconds....

also to OP: maybe try the other nodes as well yaknow... you're saying something is terrible based on only a small section of that thing. thats like saying "america is crap because theres a lot of crime in boston." (i have no idea if thats true. im not american. just making an example)

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3 minutes ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:

also to OP: maybe try the other nodes as well yaknow... you're saying something is terrible based on only a small section of that thing. thats like saying "america is crap because theres a lot of crime in boston." (i have no idea if thats true. im not american. just making an example)

Ok... but you do realize focus farming in this game means that 'just try the other nodes' is a terribly frustrating suggestion.

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1 minute ago, Caelward said:

Ok... but you do realize focus farming in this game means that 'just try the other nodes' is a terribly frustrating suggestion.

yeah..... thats a wall im just now running into myself (i had a bunch of focus from before the rework)

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On 10/15/2017 at 12:10 PM, Thaylien said:

If there's another Zenurik user with you, you can even double the regen, it stacks.

I can only see increased numbers while in operator mode, once I'm back to warframe, only latest value applies. Yes, you can troll zenurik users with level 1 dash now.

On 10/15/2017 at 1:26 PM, Djego27 said:

press 5, press CTRL, press space, press 5 again and you have the same energy regeneration for 30s

Here's a revolutionary idea - in most mission types I already use bullet jump more often than once every 30 seconds. Why not make WARFRAME bullet jump create energy zones?

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On 10/15/2017 at 2:38 AM, raven2k01 said:

Energy regeneration is one of the only things I used from my focus trees.  This change makes Zenurick basically useless.  Regeneration is better than increasing the return on orbs.
Why?  Orbs require actual kills.  For long fights against something like an Eidolon orbs are scarce while constant regeneration would be more managable.  Furthermore the probability of an orb to drop makes energy now spike and can determrimentally effect dps.  This could possibly be remedied by increasing the energy orb drop rate, however it still requires kills.  Can we please have regeneration back.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who HATES Zenurick now.

Zenurik looks pretty dope to me. Maybe play the game a bit more?

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New Zenurik is fine. I think it is better than the old one.

You get the energy bubble from your operator. It is an operator ability, not a warframe one. So let the operator have their ability.

3 hours ago, Nyaa314 said:

Why not make WARFRAME bullet jump create energy zones?

Your warframe basically gets free arcane energise with the base passive.

 

I find I am having no issues with the energy economy now. Even playing with high energy caster frames I do not run out (unless I jump in magnetic water).

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Here's my thinking on the matter, keeping in mind that I never ended up getting enough focus to make use of these things, but thoughts none the less.

We have Waybound perks now. A thing that once you've gotten it, it's there for good. It is a permanent upgrade to everything you do. Why is that not where passive energy regeneration is? Just a small amount, like capping out at maybe 1 per second.

Also? I hate the sound of Energizing Dash. Hopping in and out of Operator mode just sounds like the world's biggest pain in the &#! to be honest, a 200% awful flowbreaker, having to stop what I'm doing to play leapfrog with my potatochild. Whose idea even was that?

If it energy regeneration was Waybound then everyone could get it, and it wouldn't be taking away choice by forcing people to take one path over others so they could enjoy their powers more. (Outside of when you decide to work towards getting it). And everyone would want to get it, because every frame needs energy, and energy orbs are unreliable as heck.

And while we're at it, make Rejuvenating Tides work on Warframes too, consarn it. Health orbs are a joke and have been for eons now.

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2 hours ago, DeltaPangaea said:

Here's my thinking on the matter, keeping in mind that I never ended up getting enough focus to make use of these things, but thoughts none the less.

We have Waybound perks now. A thing that once you've gotten it, it's there for good. It is a permanent upgrade to everything you do. Why is that not where passive energy regeneration is? Just a small amount, like capping out at maybe 1 per second.

Also? I hate the sound of Energizing Dash. Hopping in and out of Operator mode just sounds like the world's biggest pain in the &#! to be honest, a 200% awful flowbreaker, having to stop what I'm doing to play leapfrog with my potatochild. Whose idea even was that?

If it energy regeneration was Waybound then everyone could get it, and it wouldn't be taking away choice by forcing people to take one path over others so they could enjoy their powers more. (Outside of when you decide to work towards getting it). And everyone would want to get it, because every frame needs energy, and energy orbs are unreliable as heck.

And while we're at it, make Rejuvenating Tides work on Warframes too, consarn it. Health orbs are a joke and have been for eons now.

Well, as somebody putting in thoughts, these are concise and to the point.

The thing is that this is genuinely supposed to be a School 'exclusive', where if you don't use the School, you don't get the benefits. It's why they went and buffed the others and changed them around in the way they did; so that there's benefits to investing into the way-bound skills, but to get the full benefits of the School you have to use it and not another. You don't get healing and protection without Vazarin, you don't get damage buffs without Madurai, the melee buffs without Naramon or the invisibility and armour stripping without Unairu.

That's... kind of the point, that you have to use Zenurik to get the Zenurik energy regen. Waybounds all relate to the Operator alone, health, armour, void energy regen, movement and damage, they don't do anything for the frames.

So, knowing that, I've noticed that most people's complaints actually just revolve around the Operator themselves. That we have to use them at all is the problem. So many people tell me 'I signed up to play Warframe, not Whiny Kid Driving a Warframe' and I can see that point.

I guess that this whole argument rests on what the DEvs thing Warframe is versus what we think Warframe is... when taken from a more outside point of view.

When you start off a traditional RPG base game, with levelling and so on, you pick a character and build them, from looks to abilities to weapons and so on. You spec into a role that leaves you with a more specific build that suits your style the most, and eventually you get specialised kit that allows you to maximise a very specific type of game play.

In Warframe though, we start off picking the specialist style, as it were. Each Warframe individually is a specialist skill tree, with four unique aspects to it, and we can only use the one at a time. Only after The Second Dream do we find our actual 'character' in the form of our Operator, and after The War Within do we start building them for the type of player we are, and then after going to find the Quills do we get access to their actual abilities and start to fill out our character's full skill trees. We can choose to be the warrior, mage, cleric, tank or rogue, but not all of the above, we can spec into the different trees to gain stat boosts to our character, like health/mana and health/mana regeneration speed from the mage's and cleric's schools, but we can't take all of their casting skills into the warrior's tree.

In Warframe our character is the Operator, Focus Schools are the five basic Roles we can play, and the Frames are the specialised weapon-oriented trees, just like we might want to try out being a heavy tank build or sword-master build in a regular adventure RPG we try out a Rhino or an Excal in Warframe.

Just because the order we get these aspects is different, doesn't mean that we have to treat it any differently from that concept. So when you look at it from that perspective, using the Operator to do things like activate the energy regen, or heal other Operators, makes complete sense.

It doesn't make it overly convenient, you could also point out, and it doesn't make it less like jumping through a hoop every time you want the results, but it does make sense.

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3 hours ago, Thaylien said:

So, knowing that, I've noticed that most people's complaints actually just revolve around the Operator themselves. That we have to use them at all is the problem. So many people tell me 'I signed up to play Warframe, not Whiny Kid Driving a Warframe' and I can see that point

I mean I can't really deny this. I honestly hate the Operators on so many levels. Mechanically. Investment-wise. Lore-wise. There's the dissonance at being told 'this is your character' flying in the face of any attachment you may have developed to your frames, they add a second layer of 'sitting in your chair pretending to be cool' that the game already had, they LOOK ugly and straight-up greasy, and they honestly just suck on a mechanical perspective. They're slow, fragile, and are only ever brought out because of contrived reasons that you need the void powers. All of this is 100% counter to what the game advertises itself as and draws people in for, that being cool alien-looking space ninjas going fast and shooting the dudes.

I mean, they take FALLING DAMAGE.

The Operator having your name slapped on it is also ultra-jarring.

And besides that, I don't see why the Waybound things should be tied to the Operator and nothing else. As stated, Operators suck. Oh boy, armor on something with like 250 hp, this will be so helpful. Oh boy, hp regeneration on something with 250 hp, this will be so useful.

The reason people liked Zenurik before was so they didn't have to sacrifice mod space to be able to use their powers more. To be able to use their WARFRAME more. People want means to advance themselves other than 'get the gear', and while Focus does sooooort of provide that, it doesn't do so in a way people find satisfactory. It doesn't fulfill basic things people want from the system, and if it does, it's locked to one school and behind you taking some time to play leapfrog with the potatochild.

I wanna make my Warframe better, since they're what I care about and what 99% of the game is about, and DE's attempts to make Operators more relevant is more akin to shoehorning than anything that makes me WANT to use them. Part-built ranged weapons being Operator-only also sucks the proverbial.

Just gimmie a quest where the warframes wake up, with each frame having a little line or so of dialogue while they do something cool, and we then unlock some little tree for each frame that lets you focus more on them rather than your greasy mutant space orphan.

Diatribe complete.

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18 minutes ago, DeltaPangaea said:

Diatribe complete.

And yeah, that does pretty much sum up the complaints people have.

But it doesn't change the fact that the Operator is exactly what DE has been working towards since the very beginning. Since the very first lore snippets they've mentioned the Operator and their Frames as distinct and different things, the Zariman ship that exposed the kids to the Void and gave them their powers, everything has been leading up to it.

Yes they're squishy, and of course they take fall damage, they aren't machines. On the other hand, they have mitigation from fall damage by using Void Mode that gives them reduced gravity and so no fall damage.

The basic push is that the reasons to bring them out are supposed to get less and less contrived as things go on, where the actual flow of the game will make the Operator and the Frame a seamless process. It's jarring now, but I do admit that the Focus system, what it offers and what's possible with it, is actually better than it was before.

Sure our 'endgame' at the moment is the Eidolons on the Plains, but there's going to be more, lots and lots more. Plains is pretty much the start of the rest of the game now, and soon enough you'll have players that literally couldn't imagine a time before the Operators existed. (The same as you now have players that can't imagine what it's like to play without Zenurik, and before them players that couldn't imagine what it was like to play without Parkour 2.0, and before them the ones that didn't know what people did before Corrupted Mods, and before them the change to the damage system...)

Warframe is a litany of sweeping changes, and while the transitions between one state of the game and another are exceptionally difficult times to be a newer player, having worked towards one goal only to have them move the goalposts, they have almost exclusively improved the game as we've gone forwards.

In this case, I'm just choosing to take the long-view and wait to see how it turns out. I'm fairly sure that, when we get to next year, there will be players that are eagerly grinding towards getting their Operator because the next Landscape on Venus will be out and all new types of gameplay will exist because of it.

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I think I'd be happier with the Operator if they changed the control scheme to be more similar to the warframe and archwing controls. And by that I mean if the Operator abilities were linked to 1, 2, 3, 4, I think I'd be happier with it. A large part of my irritation is the controls suddenly falling out of line with the game up til that point.

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4 hours ago, Caelward said:

I think I'd be happier with the Operator if they changed the control scheme to be more similar to the warframe and archwing controls. And by that I mean if the Operator abilities were linked to 1, 2, 3, 4, I think I'd be happier with it. A large part of my irritation is the controls suddenly falling out of line with the game up til that point.

From all we see the operators are progressing, growing, and I do think that we haven't seen even half of what they can do.

The absence of our usual 1 to 4 powers, to me,  is certainly the proof of that. Maybe they will get to a point where they will stop using warframes as puppets, or maybe they will get their own set of powers granting them more and more and more possibilities to survive on their own. 

I do see the last updates to Operators as that, the kids are growing from sheltered, weak persons hiding behind the warframes, into true warriors. Becoming more than just Operators, truly living up to the name that defines them and the warframes to their enemies, Tenno. 

 

Well at least that I'd what the game seems to be hunting at. 

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On 10/18/2017 at 9:45 PM, Nyaa314 said:

Here's a revolutionary idea - in most mission types I already use bullet jump more often than once every 30 seconds. Why not make WARFRAME bullet jump create energy zones?

And fit those damn Amps on Warframes as well, while we are at it.

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