Armor Buffs/debuff

[SirNerdsAlot5]

Looking at the stats on the wiki, which are most likely data-mined; I noticed how different the armor is for the WarFrames. Our tanks have the highest, which is to be expected, and our DPS Frames have the lowest, also to be expected. The issues I'm finding is how large that gap is. 150 tank vs 10 DPS, lolwhat? It's no wonder you go down when people look at you. The worst part is that one of the DPS characters, Sary, has 125 armor. What the heck? No wonder everyone uses her on infested defense; she's the only DPS Frame that can survive well.

 

So here's my suggestion; 1 drop Saryn's armor to 100. 2 buff these Frames to at least 25 armor, 50 at most:

 

Volt, Trinity, Nyx, Ember, Banshee.

[Syndrella]

The Saryn armor is okay only just need to increase the armor of the lowest frames and make a minimum quote. "30" for an example. Scaling is different coz when i begin the game saw that on wiki how hard or low the armors but the 10 is very low and like a mag or loki and exca is 50 which difficult coz the loki maybe the exclaibur well okay but the mag seems very armorless and she have 50 too. Then the other frames like banshee, trinity etc needs to improve a bit coz that armor is too low to survive after your shield goes down. Other point which frames have low armor have higher shield capacity but this isn't too good point for survive. Need a scale for frames and make light-medium-heavy frames by armor level. 10-50 low 50-100 medium 100+ high or heavy.

[SirNerdsAlot5]

No Saryn is NOT fine. She deals a large amount of damage and has 125 armor. Meanwhile frames like Ember deal large amounts of damage, but have 10?

[Ariarch]

Looking at the stats on the wiki, which are most likely data-mined; I noticed how different the armor is for the WarFrames. Our tanks have the highest, which is to be expected, and our DPS Frames have the lowest, also to be expected. The issues I'm finding is how large that gap is. 150 tank vs 10 DPS, lolwhat? It's no wonder you go down when people look at you. The worst part is that one of the DPS characters, Sary, has 125 armor. What the heck? No wonder everyone uses her on infested defense; she's the only DPS Frame that can survive well.

 

So here's my suggestion; 1 drop Saryn's armor to 100. 2 buff these Frames to at least 25 armor, 50 at most:

 

Volt, Trinity, Nyx, Ember, Banshee.

Nyx, no. She doesn't even look like she has armor on. All the rest, yes.

(And if enemies are shooting at a psychic, then the psychic has done something wrong.

[Ralonik]

I agree the armor scaling for these frames are really weird, they should be fixed.

[SirNerdsAlot5]

Nyx, no. She doesn't even look like she has armor on. All the rest, yes.

(And if enemies are shooting at a psychic, then the psychic has done something wrong.

Doesn't last forever though. And besides, 25 armor still isn't much.

[Kielix7]

No Saryn is NOT fine. She deals a large amount of damage and has 125 armor. Meanwhile frames like Ember deal large amounts of damage, but have 10?

 

It's offset by the fact Ember has a built-in damage reduction, so she's a bad example.

[Syndrella]

If they remain small armor then need to increase the recharge capacity or the speed. Saryn is okay coz she is a tank frame ember do other role. "if we talk roles ofc" Devs know only how they wanted this scaling but the saryn armoring is okay coz she wear an infested looks like armor which looks a bit hard. If banshee have small armor then she looks really light weight. Scaling would be really nice coz that numbers are weird but i don't know how work in the reality coz i have 3 different frame "loki, volt, vauban" and after my shield down the armor doesn't helped so much so needed to find fast a cover. How work the armor in game ?

[Wojek]

Why do you even care about armor? It only applies to health damage, and you should have a rank 8-10 redirection on your frame anyway!

On higher level missions, it doesn't matter, because the enemies kill you dead if your shields are down anyway and how cares about the low levels? Anything goes there.

Also the different warframes should play differently. For example Saryn's miasma has a rather small range, so you might have to get close to the enemies than other frames to get the most out of your ult! If Ember needs to go toe to toe with enemies she can pop Overheat. If Volt finds himself in a dire situation he can use his shield power, etc etc etc

[SirNerdsAlot5]

If they remain small armor then need to increase the recharge capacity or the speed. Saryn is okay coz she is a tank frame ember do other role. "if we talk roles ofc" Devs know only how they wanted this scaling but the saryn armoring is okay coz she wear an infested looks like armor which looks a bit hard. If banshee have small armor then she looks really light weight. Scaling would be really nice coz that numbers are weird but i don't know how work in the reality coz i have 3 different frame "loki, volt, vauban" and after my shield down the armor doesn't helped so much so needed to find fast a cover. How work the armor in game ?

Saryn is NOT a tank frame. Frost and Rhino are the only tanks. Saryn is a nuke aka DPS. That armor needs to be dropped.

[SirNerdsAlot5]

Why do you even care about armor? It only applies to health damage, and you should have a rank 8-10 redirection on your frame anyway!

On higher level missions, it doesn't matter, because the enemies kill you dead if your shields are down anyway and how cares about the low levels? Anything goes there.

Also the different warframes should play differently. For example Saryn's miasma has a rather small range, so you might have to get close to the enemies than other frames to get the most out of your ult! If Ember needs to go toe to toe with enemies she can pop Overheat. If Volt finds himself in a dire situation he can use his shield power, etc etc etc

It matters when it comes to the fact that those frames don't have high shields either. Getting smacked to the ground by mid-level enemies is stupid. On top of that, Toxic ancients deal damage directly to your health. It'd be nice to have a little more hope than high shields.

Overheat, not fullproof and doesn't reduce damage that much in the first place. Volt's shield is a 1 sided ability and infested don't care about that shield. As for etc etc, there is nothing beyond those two -.-

Edited July 25, 2013 by Grandmaster-Builder5

[Wojek]

It matters when it comes to the fact that those frames don't have high shields either. Getting smacked to the ground by mid-level enemies is stupid. On top of that, Toxic ancients deal damage directly to your health. It'd be nice to have a little more hope than high shields.

 

Use Shade with invisibility, cover and outflank the enemy. Not every frame needs to face tank everything. I've never had any issue with the low armor frames I own.

Also your changes would not do much, because the way armor works.

And as far as I know, the damage from toxic ancients ignores armor, too (also just don't melee them).

 

Seriously, the only times when I got into dire straits with a low armor frame was because I rushed ahead and didn't watch out what kind of enemies there were.

[SirNerdsAlot5]

Use Shade with invisibility, cover and outflank the enemy. Not every frame needs to face tank everything. I've never had any issue with the low armor frames I own.

Also your changes would not do much, because the way armor works.

And as far as I know, the damage from toxic ancients ignores armor, too (also just don't melee them).

 

Seriously, the only times when I got into dire straits with a low armor frame was because I rushed ahead and didn't watch out what kind of enemies there were.

No Toxic ignores shields. My health will drop slower with Steel Fiber. Since it is percent based, 60% of 10 ain't much.

[Arunasoul]

It matters when it comes to the fact that those frames don't have high shields either. Getting smacked to the ground by mid-level enemies is stupid. On top of that, Toxic ancients deal damage directly to your health. It'd be nice to have a little more hope than high shields.

Overheat, not fullproof and doesn't reduce damage that much in the first place. Volt's shield is a 1 sided ability and infested don't care about that shield. As for etc etc, there is nothing beyond those two -.-

Overheat doesn't reduce damage that much in the first place? Max it and Focus it, stats I saw said 90% damage reduction. But, of course, that was stats from months ago (which likely haven't changed since there was no rework on her to my knowledge as of yet). So yeah, 90% damage reduction. Yup, totally doesn't reduce damage that much, you need like 1000% damage reduction to be effective. Even more so when your damage reduction APPLIES TO YOUR FRIGGING SHIELDS AND HEALTH, unlike armor, which is practically pointless anyhow.

 

 

Now, sarcasm aside, I'm just going to assume that, like the vast majority of the community that 'dislikes'/'misunderstands' ember, you weren't aware that Focus and maxing the rank of Overheat changes things considerably and actually makes her a better end game tank then the Rhino after the rather ineffective changes to his Iron Skin. (1200 damage is crazy for lvls 1-30 missions, but boy does it ever go fast in a tower. I've heard focus boosts it to 1560, but 360 extra is just as much of a joke in T3.) Flat health overcoats pale in comparison to damage reduction when enemies start shooting nukes instead of bullets at lvl's 80-120 (haven't really seen higher yet, but I'd imagine it's just as crazy) so realistically speaking, Ember replaces a 150 armor warframe as main tank at a measly 10 armor. Frost still gets the title as king of the hill, but Ember is technically a DPS frame, so Overheat not only out preforms Iron Skin, it does damage too, meaning there is absolutely no reason to even TOUCH her armor value.

 

Ember is the second best masochist, I mean tank, in game right now behind the Trinity. If the Dev's really think Rhino's supposed to be rated as a tank they've either been smoking some awesome stuff, or completely forgotten that a 'support' and a 'DPS' outperform his damage soaking ability. The only tank I've seen built right is the Frost so far, Rhino's changes made him Tanky DPS or a Brawler, if your looking for titles to give him.

 

Now, Nyx. Chaos... why did you need armor again? Absorb... wait... wait... armor? I need that? Mind control... nope, still not needing it. Oh! Of course, usages of the only ability no one touches on that frame because the damage is silly, it's number 2! That's why it needs armor! No, just seriously no. Nyx needs no armor.

 

Volt was already tanky for a DPS'er, as a result of his shields. Seriously... why give armor to someone that's a walking electrical storm when he's channeling that energy into his shields anyway? He's even got that 3 for boosting damage while blocking incoming damage. Why would he need armor? For the times he uses his 2 to get away?

 

Trinity? Why? Link, Energy Vampire, use streamline, Continuity, and Focus. What have we here!? Something that DOES NOT FRIGGING DIE, and when I shoot it, I feel bad about myself. It's almost like it's killing me to hurt this Trinity! Clearly needs more armor so I don't feel bad when it LINKS ME.

 

Banshee, okay, I kind of get where your going here. This Warframe is WAYYYY too squishy. It's only survivability tool is a knockdown blast which only works up close. It's great against infested, but FAILS MISERABLY against Corpus and Grineer. a slight boost would likely help her a great deal towards balance as, at the moment, her Sound Quake is weakened by armor, reducing her to using Sonar to kill Grineer. Duration is horribly short, but damage is crazy and Sonar seems to stack from a picture I saw where a single snipertron shot hit for over 12000. The thing is... she seems like an Opera singer to me. I haven't seen much in the way of armor on them, so I can kind of get where their going with the tiny armor value. The Warframe itself looks like it's MAYBE half a centimeter thick in some spots, so long as we're considering someone actually inside the warframe, and that just wouldn't make sense to block major damage. While I agree with raising it's armor to help it, other things should likely be done to balance it instead.

 

In short, creating warframe categories like 'light, medium, and heavy' to balance warframe armor values so that their 'easier to understand' or 'make sense' don't 'make sense' when you consider the warframe's abilities. Armor values make more sense on a per frame basis then they do as a categorical idea at the moment, since we aren't building up our warframes with trinkets like 'Seadragon's amulet' or 'Ring of Farting+1'. There are no items in game to balance out later game statistics and it's probably better that way for now, as the closest thing we have are helmets, which are mostly cosmetic but can have seriously beneficial or harmful effects. For this reason, there's little to no point in creating a rigid categorical system for the armor value of warframes.

[SirNerdsAlot5]

Overheat doesn't reduce damage that much in the first place? Max it and Focus it, stats I saw said 90% damage reduction. But, of course, that was stats from months ago (which likely haven't changed since there was no rework on her to my knowledge as of yet). So yeah, 90% damage reduction. Yup, totally doesn't reduce damage that much, you need like 1000% damage reduction to be effective. Even more so when your damage reduction APPLIES TO YOUR FRIGGING SHIELDS AND HEALTH, unlike armor, which is practically pointless anyhow.

 

 

Now, sarcasm aside, I'm just going to assume that, like the vast majority of the community that 'dislikes'/'misunderstands' ember, you weren't aware that Focus and maxing the rank of Overheat changes things considerably and actually makes her a better end game tank then the Rhino after the rather ineffective changes to his Iron Skin. (1200 damage is crazy for lvls 1-30 missions, but boy does it ever go fast in a tower. I've heard focus boosts it to 1560, but 360 extra is just as much of a joke in T3.) Flat health overcoats pale in comparison to damage reduction when enemies start shooting nukes instead of bullets at lvl's 80-120 (haven't really seen higher yet, but I'd imagine it's just as crazy) so realistically speaking, Ember replaces a 150 armor warframe as main tank at a measly 10 armor. Frost still gets the title as king of the hill, but Ember is technically a DPS frame, so Overheat not only out preforms Iron Skin, it does damage too, meaning there is absolutely no reason to even TOUCH her armor value.

 

Ember is the second best masochist, I mean tank, in game right now behind the Trinity. If the Dev's really think Rhino's supposed to be rated as a tank they've either been smoking some awesome stuff, or completely forgotten that a 'support' and a 'DPS' outperform his damage soaking ability. The only tank I've seen built right is the Frost so far, Rhino's changes made him Tanky DPS or a Brawler, if your looking for titles to give him.

 

Now, Nyx. Chaos... why did you need armor again? Absorb... wait... wait... armor? I need that? Mind control... nope, still not needing it. Oh! Of course, usages of the only ability no one touches on that frame because the damage is silly, it's number 2! That's why it needs armor! No, just seriously no. Nyx needs no armor.

 

Volt was already tanky for a DPS'er, as a result of his shields. Seriously... why give armor to someone that's a walking electrical storm when he's channeling that energy into his shields anyway? He's even got that 3 for boosting damage while blocking incoming damage. Why would he need armor? For the times he uses his 2 to get away?

 

Trinity? Why? Link, Energy Vampire, use streamline, Continuity, and Focus. What have we here!? Something that DOES NOT FRIGGING DIE, and when I shoot it, I feel bad about myself. It's almost like it's killing me to hurt this Trinity! Clearly needs more armor so I don't feel bad when it LINKS ME.

 

Banshee, okay, I kind of get where your going here. This Warframe is WAYYYY too squishy. It's only survivability tool is a knockdown blast which only works up close. It's great against infested, but FAILS MISERABLY against Corpus and Grineer. a slight boost would likely help her a great deal towards balance as, at the moment, her Sound Quake is weakened by armor, reducing her to using Sonar to kill Grineer. Duration is horribly short, but damage is crazy and Sonar seems to stack from a picture I saw where a single snipertron shot hit for over 12000. The thing is... she seems like an Opera singer to me. I haven't seen much in the way of armor on them, so I can kind of get where their going with the tiny armor value. The Warframe itself looks like it's MAYBE half a centimeter thick in some spots, so long as we're considering someone actually inside the warframe, and that just wouldn't make sense to block major damage. While I agree with raising it's armor to help it, other things should likely be done to balance it instead.

 

In short, creating warframe categories like 'light, medium, and heavy' to balance warframe armor values so that their 'easier to understand' or 'make sense' don't 'make sense' when you consider the warframe's abilities. Armor values make more sense on a per frame basis then they do as a categorical idea at the moment, since we aren't building up our warframes with trinkets like 'Seadragon's amulet' or 'Ring of Farting+1'. There are no items in game to balance out later game statistics and it's probably better that way for now, as the closest thing we have are helmets, which are mostly cosmetic but can have seriously beneficial or harmful effects. For this reason, there's little to no point in creating a rigid categorical system for the armor value of warframes.

 

I'm not saying that you're going to get hit all the time and omg please help me, no. What I'm saying is that when you DO get hit, and it does happen no matter flawless people think they are in every single match, you drop extremely quick even on mid-range levels. Point is, IF I get hit on one of these frames by some freak accident, or overconfidence, why the heck am I dropping in matter of like 1.5s? And to regurgitate this.....why the heck does Saryn (a DPS Frame) have 125 armor? 

[Misgenesis]

Saryn is NOT a tank frame. Frost and Rhino are the only tanks. Saryn is a nuke aka DPS. That armor needs to be dropped.

Saryn is Tanky, Having a base HP of 450 at 30...and of course the armor value.

[lZerul]

Saryn generally has to get closer to enemy groups due to the lower range on her powers compared to most other caster frames. Not to mention her energy pool is only 150, which is low compared to true caster frames.

Edited July 25, 2013 by lZerul