Making focus more reasonable

[Kurtys]

7 hours ago, Phyrak said:

Such values are far too small considering the current need for focus 

Who about double those values ? 10%, 14% and 18% for each tier of lenses ?

If they still want some kind of anti-AFK system they could change the convergence orbs and make them "keep focus" : When a "keep focus" orb spawns, your affinity>focus conversion rate starts decreasing over time and is reduced to either 1/4 of the value or 0 after 1 or 2 minutes. If you take the orb, your conversation rate go back up instantly. Maybe they could also remove the "keep focus" orb in non-endless mission to not make it annoying more than anything else.

And how about a softcap instead of a hard cap ? As in, once you reach the cap, you still gain focus but at diminushed rate, like 1/4 the value or less. Call it Training Fatigue or something.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Kurtys

[Alexter]

I'm one of this normal player. When focus 2.0 come, i had about 400K in lower school, to 1.5M on the higher

I've done the daily cap of 100K 2 or 3 times only. So 250K cap is hilarious for me, and the huge amount needed for unlock all of one school is hopeless. Specially in PoE where XP and affinity is so much lower than in others missions because of the lower number of ennemies at a same place

[Phyrak]

1 hour ago, Kurtys said:

Who about double those values ? 10%, 14% and 18% for each tier of lenses ?

If they still want some kind of anti-AFK system they could change the convergence orbs and make them "keep focus" : When a "keep focus" orb spawns, your affinity>focus conversion rate starts decreasing over time and is reduced to either 1/4 of the value or 0 after 1 or 2 minutes. If you take the orb, your conversation rate go back up instantly. Maybe they could also remove the "keep focus" orb in non-endless mission to not make it annoying more than anything else.

And how about a softcap instead of a hard cap ? As in, once you reach the cap, you still gain focus but at diminushed rate, like 1/4 the value or less. Call it Training Fatigue or something.

 

15 minutes ago, Alexter said:

I'm one of this normal player. When focus 2.0 come, i had about 400K in lower school, to 1.5M on the higher

I've done the daily cap of 100K 2 or 3 times only. So 250K cap is hilarious for me, and the huge amount needed for unlock all of one school is hopeless. Specially in PoE where XP and affinity is so much lower than in others missions because of the lower number of ennemies at a same place

The balance between these two and a way for dedicated players to have a drive to complete their drivers as such

A soft cap seems the way to go

As for casual players, there needs to be enough focus/affinity to have them achieve their goals

[Ampoth]

4 hours ago, Phyrak said:

The balance between these two and a way for dedicated players to have a drive to complete their drivers as such

A soft cap seems the way to go

As for casual players, there needs to be enough focus/affinity to have them achieve their goals

DE seems unwilling however to allow any sort of reasonable progression for casual players and some suspect it is because there is an incentive to buy affinity boosters to help alleviate the grind for those players who actively farm focus.

[An_An0ma1y]

18 hours ago, Ampoth said:

Even when you pick up the convergence orb in normal missions you still get rather pitiful amounts of focus, to the extent that the only way to actually get any meaningful amount of focus is to specifically farm for focus through the use of two very specific Affinity farming builds, and even those don't award large quantities of focus in the context of the costs of things in Focus 2.0. 

If DE is worried about people progressing in Focus too fast, then a daily/weekly cap can solve that issue. But drastically reducing Focus gains when they implemented the convergence orb was a big mistake, now normal players don't make any progress just passively gaining Focus, and only those who specifically farm for Focus will. Even after a year and a half since Focus 1.0 they still apparently haven't realized this and dealt with the issue. 

agreed, i specifically farm for focus which takes away from doing other things i could be doing. the only other time focus is a pain sort of is when im leveling weapons and frames for mastery.

[Phyrak]

6 hours ago, Ampoth said:

DE seems unwilling however to allow any sort of reasonable progression for casual players and some suspect it is because there is an incentive to buy affinity boosters to help alleviate the grind for those players who actively farm focus.

Pay to win is never a good way to go 

It garners bitterness from the f2p players

[An_An0ma1y]

21 minutes ago, Phyrak said:

Pay to win is never a good way to go 

It garners bitterness from the f2p players

i usually don't consider this game pay 2 win, but this is rather pay 2 win in my own opinion, but i dont really know anymore what constitutes something as being pay 2 win. i am one of these players that buys affinity boosters, and its still frustrating. probably because i have other stuff in life that i do as well that dont let me hit the cap every single day, and also for previous reasons i have stated.

[Phyrak]

Just now, Ryushika said:

i usually don't consider this game pay 2 win, but this is rather pay 2 win in my own opinion, but i dont really know anymore what constitutes something as being pay 2 win. i am one of these players that buys affinity boosters, and its still frustrating. probably because i have other stuff in life that i do as well that dont let me hit the cap every single day, and also for previous reasons i have stated.

The factor of dedicated builds just to reeach a reasonable/usable amount of focus sided with the small percentage of affinity converted into focus and buying a booster seems the way to go

A forced grind mindset doesn't help with keeping the community in a positive state of being- yes, warframe is one game that focuses on changing itself consistently. But is help back by the grind of numbers too high for focus - the estimates have put it into 500+ days

Why have the players play wf as a part time or even to streamers, a full time job - focus makes the grind for cetus standing childs play 

[Kurtys]

If nothing change, and i really hope they'll do something about it because that's really to much grind compared to anything else in the game, i'll just ignore the last rank of every nodes in the school and completely forget about cross-school passives. As Zenurik, not taking the last rank of every nodes will save me 9.000.000+ focus (4.200.000 focus in the tree and 5.000.000+ focus in the pool) that i won't have to grind. Thats more than a month of daily focus cap.

[Phyrak]

17 minutes ago, Kurtys said:

If nothing change, and i really hope they'll do something about it because that's really to much grind compared to anything else in the game, i'll just ignore the last rank of every nodes in the school and completely forget about cross-school passives. As Zenurik, not taking the last rank of every nodes will save me 9.000.000+ focus (4.200.000 focus in the tree and 5.000.000+ focus in the pool) that i won't have to grind. Thats more than a month of daily focus cap.

This comment surmised the issue perfectly

Yes long term goals can be good, goals to this nature are not

[ashrah]

i would half grind in general no cap on standings... u play how much u wish and farming for stuff would feel more rewarding.includeing  remove of crfting time walls..game would feel much more natural

[Kurtys]

11 minutes ago, Phyrak said:

This comment surmised the issue perfectly

Yes long term goals can be good, goals to this nature are not

What's funny is that i slowly realize, while playing with the numbers, that this awful amount of grind will only make my operator "good", but not as "warframe good" but as "maybe viable at high level play? good", like i don't even know if it will be that usefull except from the thing that i already unlocked since day 1 of focus 2.0 (energized dash aka the new energy overflow).

[Phyrak]

5 hours ago, ashrah said:

i would half grind in general no cap on standings... u play how much u wish and farming for stuff would feel more rewarding.includeing  remove of crfting time walls..game would feel much more natural

Natural flow in a game is quite something to behold- to do it properly is greater step in itself. The time walls are there for a stunted progression - wf is in a pay to advance rather than to win. By advance, i mean praying with new features  (weapons/frames/companions) vs waiting for them to build/grow.

5 hours ago, Kurtys said:

What's funny is that i slowly realize, while playing with the numbers, that this awful amount of grind will only make my operator "good", but not as "warframe good" but as "maybe viable at high level play? good", like i don't even know if it will be that usefull except from the thing that i already unlocked since day 1 of focus 2.0 (energized dash aka the new energy overflow).

A mixture of incentive and power play must be met - finding that balance is very well needed.

Sided with the issues of grind and things are remarkably unpleasant looking at it long term

[ashrah]

7 hours ago, Phyrak said:

Natural flow in a game is quite something to behold- to do it properly is greater step in itself. The time walls are there for a stunted progression - wf is in a pay to advance rather than to win. By advance, i mean praying with new features  (weapons/frames/companions) vs waiting for them to build/grow.

A mixture of incentive and power play must be met - finding that balance is very well needed.

Sided with the issues of grind and things are remarkably unpleasant looking at it long term

that is very true amount of grind in warframe is not fun at all

[Phyrak]

2 hours ago, ashrah said:

that is very true amount of grind in warframe is not fun at all

Thus, the question becomes; how do we make a grind meaningful, fun and rewarding? 

[ashrah]

12 hours ago, Phyrak said:

Thus, the question becomes; how do we make a grind meaningful, fun and rewarding? 

i would totaly rework rewarding system low lvl rewards    put lets say on mercury.. and more far u go way better rewards...base fpcus xp and standing gain i would increse 3x..and just be playing u can  lvl up pretty quickly we need that flow in game...make void really good again... endless  to be filled with  really good rewards as u go more far... no nedo. stuff like that put  good stuff  so we would feel really rewarding i rember playing void 100  waves we got on last wave  forma that is not ok at all 

[Phyrak]

17 minutes ago, ashrah said:

i would totaly rework rewarding system low lvl rewards    put lets say on mercury.. and more far u go way better rewards...base fpcus xp and standing gain i would increse 3x..and just be playing u can  lvl up pretty quickly we need that flow in game...make void really good again... endless  to be filled with  really good rewards as u go more far... no nedo. stuff like that put  good stuff  so we would feel really rewarding i rember playing void 100  waves we got on last wave  forma that is not ok at all 

Exponentially stacking rewards...to a point 

The old void key survival runs were a point of this of sorts

Perhaps also a way to manage the rng to a point to further reduce grind or help to gain credits, resources or mods depending on the need of the player - ie. Furthering this game as a service ideal to a greater extent 

[ashrah]

10 minutes ago, Phyrak said:

Exponentially stacking rewards...to a point 

The old void key survival runs were a point of this of sorts

Perhaps also a way to manage the rng to a point to further reduce grind or help to gain credits, resources or mods depending on the need of the player - ie. Furthering this game as a service ideal to a greater extent 

i rember wen i started  i farmed redirection 3-4 day in row just to can go on next planet.. that should not be thing... that why i say we need that flow of progression  .. if u wish some extra u farm and u get that...and u know u will get it

[Nadath]

Fairly late response but the Focus system is something that I basically don't really bother with after being exposed to it.  I get less than 100 to maybe 2,000 per orb if I am on Hydron.  When I first saw that I thought, "Ok, not a lot, but let's see how much is needed.  Oh, it's 150,000 to unlock the next node, guess I won't be using Operator mode ever again except to kill Sentients."

[Phyrak]

3 hours ago, Nadath said:

Fairly late response but the Focus system is something that I basically don't really bother with after being exposed to it.  I get less than 100 to maybe 2,000 per orb if I am on Hydron.  When I first saw that I thought, "Ok, not a lot, but let's see how much is needed.  Oh, it's 150,000 to unlock the next node, guess I won't be using Operator mode ever again except to kill Sentients."

The numbers definitely need a nerf 

[(PSN)Joshhwwaaaaaa]

Removing the convergence orb is the one that needs to go. Going out to retrieve it can actually lead to my team going down and the objective failing. It should be passive just like syndicates and sigils. 

[Phyrak]

11 hours ago, (PS4)Joshhwwaaaaaa said:

Removing the convergence orb is the one that needs to go. Going out to retrieve it can actually lead to my team going down and the objective failing. It should be passive just like syndicates and sigils. 

This time a thousand

[(XBOX)Oussii]

On 10/17/2017 at 6:17 AM, ashrah said:

would be really nice to see that changes cz amount of focus we need now for each school is really huge   someone told me now to much one school we need about 7.5mil+ slots xd

It's not that hard.

I have 4 schools out of 5 maxed and fully active

The last one i am missing around 2 mil.

that's 8 days only and then no need for me to farm focus anymore

[ashrah]

7 hours ago, (Xbox One)Oussii said:

It's not that hard.

I have 4 schools out of 5 maxed and fully active

The last one i am missing around 2 mil.

that's 8 days only and then no need for me to farm focus anymore

really nice...i use zenurik mostly cz of bonus energy xd and naroamon wen i lvl up stuff

[Nez-Kal]

Yeeeeeeeeaaah.....I've straight up left my team to die in a Mobile Defense Sortie once with my Mesa while getting a Focus orb by the Defense objective because, hear me out, literally EVERYTHING would be better for me by just letting them lay there and die.

 

Think about it. I needed to go get that orb BUT my buddies were going down at the same time...Well, that's Great! More enemies focused on the Defense target and headed towards me and my Peacemakers with 8x Focus Gain. And if I went to pick them up? Well, that would just be wasting time on those precious 40 seconds or so of Focus Farming (Not including if I went down while I tired to do so some how), not to mention that while they're down they're likely getting less enemy kills while I do my deal, allowing me to pile on those kills for myself and gain even more Focus.

At the end of the day, an Orb Spawning in an Exilus Sortie Mobile Defense inspired me to, and rewarded me for, ditching my fellow Tenno to die. (+37k Focus in 40 seconds of Gain. Worth a 10-15 minute Farming Mission otherwise)