Limbo needs another rework

[Sanxxieh]

Limbo is one of the most powerful frames available. If you cannot see his power, it means you (or your teammates) simply cannot use him. But don't worry, don't get it as an insult or whatsoever - 90% of players cannot play Limbo effectivelly. I've learnt it and trust me, this frame is a beast if used well and absolutely meta in some missions. Especially with a well prepared premade team.... ... =3

[(PSN)lhbuch]

IMO Limbo is far from from been weak and also far from been fun.

His top performance is tied to have frozen dolls as enemies while limited to melee. He sure can be extremely OP but oh boy is he annoying...

[MrForz]

I can deal with Limbo's gameplay, infact I like it. The thing I dread is his inability to work as designed ('designed' is the key, not 'intended') and other inconsistences. The latest news from the Plains of Eidolon is that there are some missiles and/or projectiles out there blowing you up to pieces without giving a damn about the rift planes and stasis. Some interactive objects can't be interacted with inside a cataclysm. Consoles are a mystery, some of them can be used through the rift, others not. And a range build in high level corpus missions is borderline suicide the moment some clueless Nullifier steps in.

[(PSN)psycofang]

9 hours ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:

IMO Limbo is far from from been weak and also far from been fun.

His top performance is tied to have frozen dolls as enemies while limited to melee. He sure can be extremely OP but oh boy is he annoying...

No. Rift torrent works without stasis, most content he can shatter targets faster without stasis than with, he just needs stasis for priority targets.

 

Other than that cataclysm + rift surged torrent and a good gun is all you need with a 600%+ damage modifier.

[(PSN)Radehx]

On 17/10/2017 at 8:10 PM, lulialmir said:

 

because in the end, you'll need like 5-10 minutes to kill like high level enemies 

This basically proves you simply aren't playing him correctly. Limbo slaughters stuff well into the high 100s in seconds. 

Status procs never end as long as stasis is up, which allows for some crazy damage. If you add the rift torrent mod to that, you can get 300-3000%+ melee damage bonus on top of that. 

The problem with Limbo is that his abilities are fairly complex, and there are quite a few special interactions you need to understand to make him work. One thing's for sure though, claiming he doesn't do enough damage is 100% wrong ;)

He does great damage, has the strongest CC in game, can regen his own energy and revive his mates in all situations...he rocks! However, to make him work both the Limbo player and those playing with him need to understand how he really works.

I used to rant about him until I really spent the time to figure him out...now he doesn't really annoy me anymore since I know how to adapt even to a bad Limbo player. In fact, I like playing with him in a team because he helps other frames to regen energy and also provides them with a safe space. 

He works VERY well with Nidus by the way since Nidus' abilities work through the rift. A Nidus/Limbo tag team is awesome.

Edited October 19, 2017 by (PS4)Radehx

[(PSN)lhbuch]

18 hours ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

No. Rift torrent works without stasis, most content he can shatter targets faster without stasis than with, he just needs stasis for priority targets.

 

Other than that cataclysm + rift surged torrent and a good gun is all you need with a 600%+ damage modifier.

No CC and 65 armor? Extra dmg wont save him.

 

[(PSN)Radehx]

4 hours ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:

No CC and 65 armor? Extra dmg wont save him.

 

You can actually stasis stuff in Cataclysm and create your own little mini tank with life strike procs that never end as long those enemies don't die. Allows you to fight weaker mobs that aren't subject to stasis outside the rift.

Only really works to "tankable" levels of course. 

Here's how I play Limbo most of the time:

195 duration

95 efficiency

58 range

223 strength

I fit the rift torrent mod and my main weapon is a viral/slash Lesion with the Relentless Combination, Condition Overload & Life Strike mods.

This setup is imo better for most circumstances, especially in pub games because you don't just freeze half the map at once. It's also much easier to deal with nullifiers since I can strategically place my Cataclysm out of the way from them.

95 efficiency works just fine as long as you spend the vast majority of the time either in rift walk or cataclysm...which you should anyway because Limbo isn't really a natural tank.

Melee damage is totally sick tbh. I halve enemy health with my Lesion's viral procs and then stack slash procs to finish them off. As long as stuff is subject to stasis, those procs never end! Relentless Combination also blows up my Lesion's combo counter at crazy speeds since slash procs go towards the counter...and Condition Overload helps too. In short, he's a melee damage monster.

I tried a lot of different ways to deal with nullifiers because they are hands down Limbo's biggest weakness. Max range setups totally fall apart because you can't use Cataclysm anymore with them around. He can't really fight outside rift walk or Cataclysm because he has no tanking skills other than rift walk and stasis. 

So you kinda have to get creative a little. If you fit Life Strike on a melee weapon that doesn't just 1-shot stuff, you can get a tooooooon of healing slash procs for as long as enemies stay alive and stasis stays up. So if you whack 20 dudes you put in stasis just once with Life Strike, you can then fight outside the bubble and have a pretty respectable health regen. 

It's good enough to keep you alive while parkouring or sliding into a nullifier. Life Strike procs from 10-20 higher level guys nets you a pretty respectable health regen. 

Takes a bit of practice to make it work though, it's not a simple "press 4 to win" setup. You should only fight stuff that isn't in stasis inside your (small!) Cataclysm if you absolutely have to or if those things are low risk trash mobs. Not just for tanking, but also for the energy regen. Stay in rift walk as much as you possibly can. If you don't carefully manage your energy that way you'll have longer down times which isn't cool.

You also have to place your Cataclysm strategically, preferably somewhere where it doesn't bother mates...but still close enough to offer them a place to hide and get free energy. The negative range really helps with not just imposing it on others...and against nullifiers ofc. 

It is super strong in terms of damage output...and as long as you don't mess up, nothing can really touch you. It's overkill at lower levels though and really only starts to shine at higher levels. Bit like Nidus in a way, he sucks too at lower levels. 

You can also help your team by drawing fire, even easier if you fit Guardian Derision. If you can draw fire to you, who can't get hit by it, it'll make it easier for mates to tank. Wukong can do the same to make up for his lack of CC, because he also can't really die to enemy fire. 

Paradoxically, duration is essentially your damage boost...the longer you can keep up stasis, the longer those procs will tick down, the more damage you do. 

Edited October 19, 2017 by (PS4)Radehx

[Almagnus1]

The LImbo troll frame actually caused me to fail a spy sortie that I was about to salvage because LImbo dropped the sphere....

Which completely cut me off from using the hacking console that I was about to solve within the time limit.

Needless to say, I was not a happy camper because of the forced failure.

[(XBOX)RAG is NAROK]

Limbo is fine. The rework made him into a really nice (and fun) frame to use.

If anything DE needs to focus there attention on reworking other frames, like Zephyr and to some extent Equinox (I love her but admittedly some of her abilities to need to be improved upon).

[(PSN)Radehx]

4 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

The LImbo troll frame actually caused me to fail a spy sortie that I was about to salvage because LImbo dropped the sphere....

Which completely cut me off from using the hacking console that I was about to solve within the time limit.

Needless to say, I was not a happy camper because of the forced failure.

You could still hack in operator mode despite Limbo, rolled to get out of the rift or collapsed his Cataclysm with bullets...or communicated with the Limbo of course...but yeah, that's the one change I wouldn't mind, letting other team members (not Limbo!!) hack consoles while in the rift. 

A lot of other frames can really hinder others too. Nova can be a total pain in the &#! in survivals for example totally screwing up enemy flow and therefore life support. 

[(XBOX)RAG is NAROK]

On 10/17/2017 at 11:57 AM, lulialmir said:

i haven't said you can't kill enemies, you can, but, its so slow, that i don't even wan't to start the mission, because i know that i'll take forever to do that

and i don't think im the only one thinking like that...

Then use a different frame. Limbo isn't really an extermination frame (at least in my opinion), he is more of a defense/mobile defense/rescue/interception frame. These events usually take time, which means being slow (which I kind of understand what you mean by that) isn't an issue because you have to wait for a timer anyways.

That is how he works in Defense, Mobile Defense and Interception. In Rescue he is great because you can banish the rescue target preventing them from being harmed by enemies outside the rift.

Again, it all comes down to knowing how to use him and his abilities to their fullest.

If you want a frame to do exterminate missions, use frames like Ember, Equinox, Titania and those are just frames off the top of my head that are good for that mod. Or get an ignis and put 4-6 forma on it.

14 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

The LImbo troll frame actually caused me to fail a spy sortie that I was about to salvage because LImbo dropped the sphere....

I will admit I did this one time on accident. Most new Limbo players forget that Cataclysm kicks hackers. However, once I learned from my mistake I always avoided using it in the spy vaults.

I would suggest making sure it is in fact a troll and new a new Limbo player.

Also you spelled Limbo wrong. :P

 

Edited October 19, 2017 by (XB1)RAG is NAROK

[(PSN)lhbuch]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

You can actually stasis stuff in Cataclysm and create your own little mini tank with life strike procs that never end as long those enemies don't die. Allows you to fight weaker mobs that aren't subject to stasis outside the rift.

Only really works to "tankable" levels of course. 

Here's how I play Limbo most of the time:

195 duration

95 efficiency

58 range

223 strength

I fit the rift torrent mod and my main weapon is a viral/slash Lesion with the Relentless Combination, Condition Overload & Life Strike mods.

This setup is imo better for most circumstances, especially in pub games because you don't just freeze half the map at once. It's also much easier to deal with nullifiers since I can strategically place my Cataclysm out of the way from them.

95 efficiency works just fine as long as you spend the vast majority of the time either in rift walk or cataclysm...which you should anyway because Limbo isn't really a natural tank.

Melee damage is totally sick tbh. I halve enemy health with my Lesion's viral procs and then stack slash procs to finish them off. As long as stuff is subject to stasis, those procs never end! Relentless Combination also blows up my Lesion's combo counter at crazy speeds since slash procs go towards the counter...and Condition Overload helps too. In short, he's a melee damage monster.

I tried a lot of different ways to deal with nullifiers because they are hands down Limbo's biggest weakness. Max range setups totally fall apart because you can't use Cataclysm anymore with them around. He can't really fight outside rift walk or Cataclysm because he has no tanking skills other than rift walk and stasis. 

So you kinda have to get creative a little. If you fit Life Strike on a melee weapon that doesn't just 1-shot stuff, you can get a tooooooon of healing slash procs for as long as enemies stay alive and stasis stays up. So if you whack 20 dudes you put in stasis just once with Life Strike, you can then fight outside the bubble and have a pretty respectable health regen. 

It's good enough to keep you alive while parkouring or sliding into a nullifier. Life Strike procs from 10-20 higher level guys nets you a pretty respectable health regen. 

Takes a bit of practice to make it work though, it's not a simple "press 4 to win" setup. You should only fight stuff that isn't in stasis inside your (small!) Cataclysm if you absolutely have to or if those things are low risk trash mobs. Not just for tanking, but also for the energy regen. Stay in rift walk as much as you possibly can. If you don't carefully manage your energy that way you'll have longer down times which isn't cool.

You also have to place your Cataclysm strategically, preferably somewhere where it doesn't bother mates...but still close enough to offer them a place to hide and get free energy. The negative range really helps with not just imposing it on others...and against nullifiers ofc. 

It is super strong in terms of damage output...and as long as you don't mess up, nothing can really touch you. It's overkill at lower levels though and really only starts to shine at higher levels. Bit like Nidus in a way, he sucks too at lower levels. 

You can also help your team by drawing fire, even easier if you fit Guardian Derision. If you can draw fire to you, who can't get hit by it, it'll make it easier for mates to tank. Wukong can do the same to make up for his lack of CC, because he also can't really die to enemy fire. 

Paradoxically, duration is essentially your damage boost...the longer you can keep up stasis, the longer those procs will tick down, the more damage you do. 

Good details m8. Ill give it a shot, ty.

[(PSN)psycofang]

5 hours ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:

No CC and 65 armor? Extra dmg wont save him.

Extra damage does fine when you bottleneck an area and can 1 shot level 100 mooks with a plasmor and obliterate heavies with the sisco.

65 armor? Use quick thinking and mash roll when you see a stagger. 

 

I solo most sorties doing this because Limbo is a monster in terms of DPS and CC

[(PSN)Radehx]

1 hour ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:

Good details m8. Ill give it a shot, ty.

Test it a bit to learn how much health you gain per proc...that way you can adjust your proc tank to the situation and not waste energy channelling too much when you don't have to. 

Need a crazy short term tank? Whack a lot of enemies once or twice each with life strike for a crazy short term boost to health.

Just want a small buffer to take out a nullifier? Simply whack one or two strong enemies with life strike instead of a whole mob. 

By the way, if you don't want the proc tank, the super min duration Limbo is fun too. I run at 17 duration, 160 efficiency, 145 range and 175 strength. You basically keep on recasting rift torrent and stuff constantly falls down as it gets pulled back into the rift every 3sec. You remain in the rift constantly if you pull stuff in through your 5sec Cataclysm and only have to face enemies that are on the floor. Since Cataclysm is only up a few secs and you have medium range, nullifiers aren't really as much of an issue as for the max range Cataclysm setup.

Edited October 20, 2017 by (PS4)Radehx

[Pyradus]

I agree. Limbo needs another rework.

His Stasis manages to be boring, overpowered, and annoying to play with.

How about instead of 100% freezing enemies and projectiles, it just reduces their speed 95%. Now Cataclysm is like a zone of 'bullet time' for you and your team members to play in.

Edited October 27, 2017 by CapnToaster

[AbstractLemons]

I think limbo is fine if he needs any tweaks it's just quality of life stuff. I find he works pretty darn well with hard hitting weapons that rift surge makes his attacks really hurt.

 

The passive wnrgy generation is nice and it's really fun to fight a smaller group of enemies right in the middle of an army and running circles around them with perioduc stasis use.

 

I'm teams I won't use the rift near team mates as much unless I think they need it but his cataclysm rift surge skills can help clear out a small area or cata plus stasis can be used to help hold an interception objective while you can rescue a team mate or help out at the other towers.

 

[ShikiRen]

22 hours ago, CapnToaster said:

I agree. Limbo needs another rework.

His Stasis manages to be boring, overpowered, and annoying to play with.

How about instead of 100% freezing enemies and projectiles, it just reduces their speed 95%. Now Cataclysm is like a zone of 'bullet time' for you and your team members to play in.

I'd like that. Although that might things awkward with hitscan weapons making the ability completely busted. But it would be way, way better that way.

[Doforcash]

he's not perfect (ever since the nerf after his rework), but he's a very good solo Frame fin high lv mission since the only thing that could kill him is a nulifier. 

as for co-op though, he's mainly for objective defend and hot zone revive.

[ChameleonBro]

On 10/17/2017 at 8:39 PM, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

What are these mechanics that are unexplained?

The rift mechanics (sorrry for the late reply). People don't know about his rift mechanics unless they play Limbo. Usually players who play with Limbo shoot enemies that are in the rift, don't roll if they are Banished, shoot in a Cataclysm with Stasis without realizing the time is stopped etc.

 

Once again, sorry for the very late reply.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

On 11/11/2017 at 3:08 PM, ChameleonBro said:

The rift mechanics (sorrry for the late reply). People don't know about his rift mechanics unless they play Limbo. Usually players who play with Limbo shoot enemies that are in the rift, don't roll if they are Banished, shoot in a Cataclysm with Stasis without realizing the time is stopped etc.

 

Once again, sorry for the very late reply.

It's cool. And yes, now that I think about it actually, it could use a bit more explaining, then again, so could literally every other Warframe ability. You wouldn't know all of the mechanics of them unless you see a YouTube video.

[ChameleonBro]

18 hours ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said:

It's cool. And yes, now that I think about it actually, it could use a bit more explaining, then again, so could literally every other Warframe ability. You wouldn't know all of the mechanics of them unless you see a YouTube video.

True but none of the other abilities have these type of mechanics. It can be complex learning all the possible rift interactions especially at the start. And the difference between Limbos abilities vs the rest of the abilities is that Limbos abilities aren't simple CC or damage abilities, they change the play-style of the game a lot. And out of all the abilities Limbos abilities can be the most irritating and confusing if not aware of what they do, which is also why so many people complain about Limbo.

If they knew the rift mechanics they wouldn't have these problems, they simply create problems for themselves.

Edited November 13, 2017 by ChameleonBro

[(PSN)Syalin_]

OK so I kind of agree. So limbo is my favorite warframe so I don't think he is useless but I do think he needs another rework,but only for rift surge. So rift surge is kind of useless cuz its cheaper to just cast banish again when banish runs out then it is to cast banish and then rift surge just to keep enemy's in the rift. And why would I need to keep them in the rift for so long . I already posted this idea to the wiki banish page but I think it is pretty cool for a replacement for rift surge and I call it rift storm. So what happens is when you cast it it surges limbo (or to make him more of a team player his alys) with rift energy and creates a rift storm around them which will send the targeted aly or limbo himself into an unstable rip between the rift plane and the normal plane which sends enemy's they walk next to into the rift damaging them and knocking them down and grants a much higher energy recharge then the rift normally does and when the ability ends it discharges rift energy doing blast damage in a radius around the player. I thought it would be a cool replacement for rift surge

Edited November 13, 2017 by (PS4)Syalin_