kuciol Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Where did you get the idea that Gara or PoE in general is meant for newcomers?The fact that its placed on earth means nothing. You can get hydroid there but you still need mats from other planets to build him. Many things require argon crystals, some need kuva to be built so its nothing new that you have to farm specific planets to get some resources. Thats the whole point. DE want us to play whole game not just this one node. Yes a node because despite its size its just that, another node to farm stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesyol Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Well that sounds kinda true. I returned to WF after taking a break for half a year. Tried Plains for a bit aaaand noticed that I have more fun doing Sorties, prime parts farming and syndicate mission. Maybe I need more time to get used to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xgomme Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) Big "blablabla" sh*t to me, since it was not made for newplayers, it was made "newplayer friendly" so yeah they can roam and fish. That's all. I guess DE forgot to pay someone Also yeah some things are true, but are not a bad thing for me. If PoE was the new center of the game and not a separate economy people would throw even more salt... Enjoy what you have for FREE, and don't be spoiled and childish + Reading this mess another time, I really feel like the guy tried to finish his test right after the first update, so he could catch and talk about the maximum of bugs. While making every efforts in the world to not understand what to do in the game... "I don't have a kubrow, or AW quest done, sob"... Dude, do them wtf ?? Basically the guy wanted to skip all original WF content and fly through the plains like if he was in the party for years, just no. Be realistic And most problems he's talking about are either already patched, or will be soon. To me most of his blabla is totally unfair Edited October 18, 2017 by Xgomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naisugai Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Yea I could agree it's not for new people,and should had a rank requirement to like mastery rank 8 -10 tops because you would had a grasp of everything you needed,and would be ready to jump in because I'm having a blast on plaints,it's a good hang out while things are getting fixed,and get S#&$ done at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Tucker D Dawg Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 As a console player, I haven't had the chance to play PoE - I would make a few observations though from reading the forums and as a WF console veteran: "too grindy" - this over one weekend. Even discounting feedback for to account for the fact that most players whine when not able to get max rank in 1 day, there was far more about the grind than any update (excluding the hema). What i'd like to know is How many (if any) at DE have played the game legit - farming with no cheat codes - and achieved max standing and/or all gear? Do they even know how long it would take? If DE expected the eidolon fights to be 15-30 minutes (as seems to be evidenced by their comment about the Shield disruption), and they DIDN'T do the above, did they at least to the math on how long it would take to gain standing? Or do the maths on ANY farming? A simple sum of all new syndicates to level up/weapons to craft etc - summing up the [expected mission time]*[Expected Payout adjusted for drop rate]? "too buggy" - So the [DE]fenders will just go into "yeah but its a beta game". Oh get off that nonsense already. They have been charging real money for a really long time. Not the occasional gofundme, patron, or $0.50 in-game micro transaction but packs for $70-$80. Any one of which is as much as a AAA game. Even if you exclude the optional to purchase content, ff they were intellectually honest about it being 'beta' they wouldn't be adding a non-stop flood of new content in the form of weapons/warframes/operators/plains/etc... they would fix the bugs that have been around for YEARS, that players have pointed out again and again and again, then simply release the game. " Beta phase generally begins when the software is feature complete but likely to contain a number of known or unknown bugs " "Yeah but DE listens to their community unlike other gamer makers". Listening and responding appropriately to are two very different things. "We hear you - hema research too much - and we're not going to do anything about it" "We hear you, new arching controls went too far with DoF " yeah how long ago was that? How long had people been complaining about the raid bugs before they actually did something about it? Host migration issues, requests for solo extractions from endless survival & excavation How long have people complained about the kubrow mechanics - (loyalty, not being able to quickly switch to them, utility) How many people have said they DONT like operator - and DE's response is to cram more of it down our throats? I understand *some* people like using it - but I don't see the majority liking it - more people just use it because its required. How many times have people requesting DE fix whats already in the game before releasing new content? Plains of Eidolon is not "endless open world" - what is endless and open is the amount of ideas the devs threw against the wall to see what sticks by implementing it in game, then just left it to rot on the floor where it fell off Don't even get me started on nerfs and reworks. Then there is the Times Square Billboard now is about the worst time to do it. IF "The PC version is to identify bugs and balance the economy" - is true, how is taking out a building-sized ad in Times Square before you've identified the bugs and balanced the economy a good idea? What in the actual *bleep* would marketing be thinking with that? Have they never heard the phrase "You only get one chance to make a first impression?" Further more, for a game that is available on consoles as well as pc - did they not bother to think of all the players who use consoles, see the ad now but are unable to play? You think that first impression will still be around by the time it is available to console players? No - they will have gotten used to seeing the ad and not bother to check back to see if its finally available to them "But Tucker, the game is still in beta" This again? So who thought releasing a buggy mess with a giant billboard was a good idea? Thats how you get scathing articles written in the press about you. WF and its community is big enough at this point they have to stop treating it and the players like guinea pigs. Get a focus group, or a beta testing team of volunteers and play test a bit. The negative reviews from the press and the WF community will do nothing positive for the game moving forward. i'm sure that billboard was cheap. How about paying another dev for a year to fix a few existing bugs in your software instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xgomme Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said: As a console player, I haven't had the chance to play PoE - I would make a few observations though from reading the forums and as a WF console veteran: "too grindy" - this over one weekend. Even discounting feedback for to account for the fact that most players whine when not able to get max rank in 1 day, there was far more about the grind than any update (excluding the hema). What i'd like to know is How many (if any) at DE have played the game legit - farming with no cheat codes - and achieved max standing and/or all gear? Do they even know how long it would take? If DE expected the eidolon fights to be 15-30 minutes (as seems to be evidenced by their comment about the Shield disruption), and they DIDN'T do the above, did they at least to the math on how long it would take to gain standing? Or do the maths on ANY farming? A simple sum of all new syndicates to level up/weapons to craft etc - summing up the [expected mission time]*[Expected Payout adjusted for drop rate]? "too buggy" - So the [DE]fenders will just go into "yeah but its a beta game". Oh get off that nonsense already. They have been charging real money for a really long time. Not the occasional gofundme, patron, or $0.50 in-game micro transaction but packs for $70-$80. Any one of which is as much as a AAA game. Even if you exclude the optional to purchase content, ff they were intellectually honest about it being 'beta' they wouldn't be adding a non-stop flood of new content in the form of weapons/warframes/operators/plains/etc... they would fix the bugs that have been around for YEARS, that players have pointed out again and again and again, then simply release the game. " Beta phase generally begins when the software is feature complete but likely to contain a number of known or unknown bugs " "Yeah but DE listens to their community unlike other gamer makers". Listening and responding appropriately to are two very different things. "We hear you - hema research too much - and we're not going to do anything about it" "We hear you, new arching controls went too far with DoF " yeah how long ago was that? How long had people been complaining about the raid bugs before they actually did something about it? Host migration issues, requests for solo extractions from endless survival & excavation How long have people complained about the kubrow mechanics - (loyalty, not being able to quickly switch to them, utility) How many people have said they DONT like operator - and DE's response is to cram more of it down our throats? I understand *some* people like using it - but I don't see the majority liking it - more people just use it because its required. How many times have people requesting DE fix whats already in the game before releasing new content? Plains of Eidolon is not "endless open world" - what is endless and open is the amount of ideas the devs threw against the wall to see what sticks by implementing it in game, then just left it to rot on the floor where it fell off Don't even get me started on nerfs and reworks. Then there is the Times Square Billboard now is about the worst time to do it. IF "The PC version is to identify bugs and balance the economy" - is true, how is taking out a building-sized ad in Times Square before you've identified the bugs and balanced the economy a good idea? What in the actual *bleep* would marketing be thinking with that? Have they never heard the phrase "You only get one chance to make a first impression?" Further more, for a game that is available on consoles as well as pc - did they not bother to think of all the players who use consoles, see the ad now but are unable to play? You think that first impression will still be around by the time it is available to console players? No - they will have gotten used to seeing the ad and not bother to check back to see if its finally available to them "But Tucker, the game is still in beta" This again? So who thought releasing a buggy mess with a giant billboard was a good idea? Thats how you get scathing articles written in the press about you. WF and its community is big enough at this point they have to stop treating it and the players like guinea pigs. Get a focus group, or a beta testing team of volunteers and play test a bit. The negative reviews from the press and the WF community will do nothing positive for the game moving forward. i'm sure that billboard was cheap. How about paying another dev for a year to fix a few existing bugs in your software instead? But, but, but... It's still more enjoyable and less buggy than any Ubisoft game ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolidJames Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 8 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said: Only thing i really agree with is how separated the resource economy is from the rest of the game. i would've liked it if it was more integrated somehow. Right now it feels like im playing WF1 and then WF2 in the same game. It was kind of the same thing with archwing. I enjoyed it, but it felt like i was leveling AW just to play AW. it didnt feel relevant to rest of game. Ah well....im still enjoying it. Im enjoying more than other options at the moment. We can solve the issue of how disconnected Cetus and the Plains are from the rest of the system by making Old Man Suumbaat's store an honest one. Spoiler Cetus is a trading hub, the Corpus come here too to trade peacefully (you can see a ship of theirs fly in along the beach). All kinds of useful things are on display, but you can't buy a single thing he has on display. He even has argon crystals! Let me trade standing for resources I can use outside of Cetus and the Plains. Let me buy statues for standing, since he has those on display from their exploits of the orokin tower. He has endo on display, let me buy that too. New players can have access to tons of stuff they need to play the rest of the game by simply farming in the Plains. Even vets like me need endo, or statues to display in our ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 8 hours ago, xXx_mtv_xXx said: It's a simple arcticle that points out every possible flaw in this update and creates a really bad impression of a seemingly broken game. Yes, that's what casual gamers are gonna see in a piece like this. There are different ways to criticise games and one of those ways is based on its market model. This is a F2P game that the author (and anyone else who thinks that way) is criticising this update as if it were a full price AAA game or dlc. The article hits it spot on in my opinion. The writer seems to be writing from a new player perspective and PoE is an compartmentalized experience. The writer also rounded out the article with praise for the game and it's overall polish. I took away from the article that the writer thought "Because of improvements over the years, the game, overall, has become really pretty good. But PoE wasn't quite where it needed to be yet." To give it any other type of praise would make PCGamer look like a shill of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShogunGunshow Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 2 hours ago, kuciol said: Where did you get the idea that Gara or PoE in general is meant for newcomers? Because DE themselves pitched it as a place for both veterans and new players to enjoy? Seems like it's a lot more for the former than the latter right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiichibukai Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Im glad everyone can have their own opinion. Even if theyre wrong and I dont give a single one about some puny website, they can have their own opinion :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 2 hours ago, kuciol said: Where did you get the idea that Gara or PoE in general is meant for newcomers?The fact that its placed on earth means nothing. You can get hydroid there but you still need mats from other planets to build him. Many things require argon crystals, some need kuva to be built so its nothing new that you have to farm specific planets to get some resources. Thats the whole point. DE want us to play whole game not just this one node. Yes a node because despite its size its just that, another node to farm stuff. What. The biggest draw of PoE was it is for both newbies and vets. This was DE's commitment. It is only night that is more geared for vets. So far it is failing the former and more for the latter since vets have enough resources and thus can devote time to poe. Newbies will find themselves stagnant terribly in PoE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernaut1 Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, fatpig84 said: What. The biggest draw of PoE was it is for both newbies and vets. This was DE's commitment. It is only night that is more geared for vets. So far it is failing the former and more for the latter since vets have enough resources and thus can devote time to poe. Newbies will find themselves stagnant terribly in PoE. It hasn't even been out that long yet... How can they be terribly stagnant? As a new player I remember just hopping around doing things, and there were far less things to do back then. It took me weeks to wrap my head completely around the progression. There's enough content in PoE to enjoy it right away, with a lot of room left to keep coming back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirageKnight Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 13 minutes ago, Shichibukai88 said: Im glad everyone can have their own opinion. Even if theyre wrong and I dont give a single one about some puny website, they can have their own opinion :) Puny? Do you have any idea of how many readers PC Gamer reaches? They're one of the biggest PC gaming mags around and fairly influential. 1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Tucker D Dawg said: Then there is the Times Square Billboard now is about the worst time to do it. IF "The PC version is to identify bugs and balance the economy" - is true, how is taking out a building-sized ad in Times Square before you've identified the bugs and balanced the economy a good idea? What in the actual *bleep* would marketing be thinking with that? Have they never heard the phrase "You only get one chance to make a first impression?" Further more, for a game that is available on consoles as well as pc - did they not bother to think of all the players who use consoles, see the ad now but are unable to play? You think that first impression will still be around by the time it is available to console players? No - they will have gotten used to seeing the ad and not bother to check back to see if its finally available to them "But Tucker, the game is still in beta" This again? So who thought releasing a buggy mess with a giant billboard was a good idea? Thats how you get scathing articles written in the press about you. WF and its community is big enough at this point they have to stop treating it and the players like guinea pigs. Get a focus group, or a beta testing team of volunteers and play test a bit. The negative reviews from the press and the WF community will do nothing positive for the game moving forward. i'm sure that billboard was cheap. How about paying another dev for a year to fix a few existing bugs in your software instead? This is a VERY good and valid point. That was a major, expensive, and stupid gamble on their part and I'm sure it's only served to leave a sour taste in some people's mouths. Reputation is everything in the gaming industry and this might easily hurt DE's rep further. If it were me, I'd have played it way more safely and definitely waited to start the real heavy marketing before the update was set for release on consoles, when most of the bugs had been ironed out and the econ tweaked more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiichibukai Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 19 minutes ago, MirageKnight said: Puny? Do you have any idea of how many readers PC Gamer reaches? They're one of the biggest PC gaming mags around and fairly influential. Well, good for them? I dont and I dont care about it so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 11 hours ago, xXx_mtv_xXx said: He's clearly not open minded and is not giving DE the benefit of the doubt, so that's suspicious at the very least. This is the biggest update they ever made and it just came out, it was clearly rushed, but this guy is crapping all over it and surprise surprise, Destiny 2 is right around the corner. Just connect the dots. Plains of Eidolon, while it has a host of launch bugs, still feels like the most unrushed update Warframe's ever been given. I mean, they worked on it for MONTHS before TennoCon and delayed the launch until they felt it was ready to be released. The main gripe i have against this article is the following quote: "Digital Extremes is working on making the whole thing more rewarding and fixing the bugs, but I feel like I'm playing an early beta and not a final release. " an early beta. That's exactly what everything is in Warframe. I have no clue why people are consistently surprised by bugs and glitches in the game and get frustrated everytime something breaks- That's the exact purpose of Warframe's "eternal beta" state- They simply don't have the resources to mass-test all their content for errors so instead they leave it to the beta testers (aka every player) to crowd source and root out for the final product. It's a highly efficient method of spotting bugs when you have not a small dev team but millions of willing players experiencing the content at the cost of finding and reporting bugs to be fixed. The game isn't in final release nor are its updates- if it was a final release it wouldn't need updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 14 minutes ago, Comrade said: The game isn't in final release nor are its updates- if it was a final release it wouldn't need updates. Plenty of final release games have updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nirrel Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Xgomme said: Big "blablabla" sh*t to me, since it was not made for newplayers, it was made "newplayer friendly" so yeah they can roam and fish. That's all. I guess DE forgot to pay someone Also yeah some things are true, but are not a bad thing for me. If PoE was the new center of the game and not a separate economy people would throw even more salt... Enjoy what you have for FREE, and don't be spoiled and childish + Reading this mess another time, I really feel like the guy tried to finish his test right after the first update, so he could catch and talk about the maximum of bugs. While making every efforts in the world to not understand what to do in the game... "I don't have a kubrow, or AW quest done, sob"... Dude, do them wtf ?? Basically the guy wanted to skip all original WF content and fly through the plains like if he was in the party for years, just no. Be realistic And most problems he's talking about are either already patched, or will be soon. To me most of his blabla is totally unfair Dude, DE said it that it was new players as well and it was their justification for the S#&$ty 2k credit rewards on bounties ecc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said: You have no idea what you're talking about. Plenty of final release games have updates. by updates i meant the hotfixes, not content updates. My bad on using the same word with different contexts. If it were a final release It would ideally be 99% bug free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 49 minutes ago, Comrade said: Plains of Eidolon, while it has a host of launch bugs, still feels like the most unrushed update Warframe's ever been given. I mean, they worked on it for MONTHS before TennoCon and delayed the launch until they felt it was ready to be released. The main gripe i have against this article is the following quote: "Digital Extremes is working on making the whole thing more rewarding and fixing the bugs, but I feel like I'm playing an early beta and not a final release. " an early beta. That's exactly what everything is in Warframe. I have no clue why people are consistently surprised by bugs and glitches in the game and get frustrated everytime something breaks- That's the exact purpose of Warframe's "eternal beta" state- They simply don't have the resources to mass-test all their content for errors so instead they leave it to the beta testers (aka every player) to crowd source and root out for the final product. It's a highly efficient method of spotting bugs when you have not a small dev team but millions of willing players experiencing the content at the cost of finding and reporting bugs to be fixed. The game isn't in final release nor are its updates- if it was a final release it wouldn't need updates. Do you know how much revenue this game actually generates? ...It makes so much money their current owners divested their poultry business (their core business) and bought more gaming studios instead. Warframe is earning MMO money now— Let's not keep throwing the "beta" or "indie" thing out there...It's an insult to actual Beta stage and Indie games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Just now, Padre_Akais said: Do you know how much revenue this game actually generates? ...It makes so much money their current owners divested their poultry business (their core business) and bought more gaming studios instead. Warframe is earning MMO money now— Let's not keep throwing the "beta" or "indie" thing out there...It's an insult to actual Beta stage and Indie games. I'm not talking about money or revenue at all - DE's dev team isn't large enough to perfect builds, bug-free, perfectly balanced and all before shipping them in a timely manner. Is that a problem that DE has to address by hiring more people since it's no longer really an indie studio? Is it abusive to some extent of the playerbase? Maybe, but since Warframe is still technically considered an open beta in that sense they can use their playerbase to bug test as they always have. While I won't defend the amount of gamebreaking bugs that ship with their updates, It's in the EULA you agreed to in order to play. Personally, I think it's part of the developer-player relationship DE have been so keen on fostering for years- They're some of the most responsive developers in terms of community feedback and since they are willing to trust their players with some aspects of their game design, they are trusting bug-finding to the players who will use every aspect of the game thousands of times a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Comrade said: by updates i meant the hotfixes, not content updates. My bad on using the same word with different contexts. If it were a final release It would ideally be 99% bug free. See, thing is, even final releases aren't 99% bug free. And they get hotfixes to their content updates (and they even sometimes undergo balancing updates, depending on the game - look at For Honor, for example). But what separates a released/launched game from a pre-release/launch game (beta or alpha) is that the core release game (before DLCs, expansions, and content updates) is feature-complete. That means it's features aren't half-developed. Balancing still takes place, updates still take place, but its core features (the features in the game at release) aren't in need of reworking. That also means there's a structure to the game and how players progress through it. These are things that Warframe largely lacks, imo. Sure, some stuff is gated, but there's no clear progression through the star chart anymore. The old starchart used to at least have more of a path structure where you literally went from node to node, planet to planet, but with the current star chart, there are multiple paths from one planet to another, and even multiple disconnected paths (like for the Void). So, imo, a Warframe that is released (as in, out of beta) would be a very good thing because it would mean that Warframe is objectively a better product. 18 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said: Do you know how much revenue this game actually generates? ...It makes so much money their current owners divested their poultry business (their core business) and bought more gaming studios instead. Warframe is earning MMO money now— Let's not keep throwing the "beta" or "indie" thing out there...It's an insult to actual Beta stage and Indie games. The problem is, Warframe's state of development is like an alpha/early beta. It's an insult to actual released games that went through the standard development process (pre-alpha to alpha to beta to release) to not call Warframe a beta. Let's not keep pretending that Warframe is a post-beta product on par with AAA games or any other released title. It's another DayZ (i.e. a perpetually early access title in alpha/beta that makes money off of its incomplete state), just one that is of higher quality and polish and gameplay. Edited October 18, 2017 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoninJed Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Well things could change right? I mean it is still early to judge this new feature in a f2p game that's in beta still...right? Seems a little to fast to write up a article criticizing this when changes are being made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaviar Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Comrade said: by updates i meant the hotfixes, not content updates. My bad on using the same word with different contexts. If it were a final release It would ideally be 99% bug free. I guess Shadowrun: Hong Kong must've been beta until Extended Edition was out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xgomme Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nirrel said: Dude, DE said it that it was new players as well and it was their justification for the S#&$ty 2k credit rewards on bounties ecc. And it is, new players can roam, fish, bounties and do mostly everything in the plains. It was just not really logicial to think anybody will have everything unlocked at start. Even more when we talk about archwing or kubrows, things we have to earn outside of the plains. And since the biggest content of the plains is for players with operators (we know that since ages)... I don't see how it was logical to think it would be a MR1 place. It's clear people will need to do at least the quests for AW and Operators to really start the plains, but you can still visit way before and it's a good point. But now imagine it the other way : "PoE locked to MR10 or bellow" You'll see everybody asking "But, but, at least let me fish ! It's a shame, blablabla, poor new players" Edited October 18, 2017 by Xgomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 17 minutes ago, Slaviar said: I guess Shadowrun: Hong Kong must've been beta until Extended Edition was out. 1 hour ago, Comrade said: If it were a final release It would ideally be 99% bug free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now