Archwing in plains. WOW it's disappointing.

[Unagi604]

Hello,

I need to rant.  Finally after collecting all the materials to get my archwing into plains and getting some time to play with it, I realize I just wasted my time.  I don't think I was expecting very much at all, yet it still managed to disappointment me like I've never been before in this game.  The expectation? Archwings are archwings, which I am sure you already know it is not.  Here's the things I've run into from start to finish that has me kind of miffed.

The archwings need launchers. Ok, whatever. This one is reasonable, but just not expected since we've never needed launchers before in any of other archwing available missions. Though I don't see why other people can take your launchers. Maybe make a single launcher collectible by everyone, or at least provide a grace period for the player to take their own launcher?

The durability. This came as a complete surprise, because even though I was using Amesha with Watchful Swarm active, my archwing broke almost immediately after getting hit. I don't even know what else to say about this because it's obvious how it should be. I can't understand why anyone designing this would decide an archwing, only when used in the plains, is built out of paper mache. I mean you could make the missiles stun, or do increased damage to mess up someone's day, but it's super lame that they can 1 shot an archwing. At no point playing an archwing in plains did I feel anything I modded onto it was worthwhile.

The archwing weapons. It is inconsistent with other missions where an archwing can be used.  I was fully expecting to be able to use my archwing stuff, you know... being in my archwing.  I don't think archwing weapons are overpowered compared to anything else that players are running out in the plains with.  If anything, I don't think any end game arch weapon can even hope to compete with what end game players are running with. Also on this, if you use your melee while in your archwing, your archwing gets removed? (NOTE: I've only tried this once, and am not willing to waste another)

General usability. Now this one I'm curious about.  Who made the call on this? Why does the archwing rotate when trying to strafe while boosting? It doesn't do this anywhere else. It also starts to re-orient itself when you let off the boost so you can't hold your not-parallel-to-the-ground angle, which for me at least has made some not so great stops. Being able to go off angle was removed from space because it was messing a lot of people up, and someone thought it was a good idea to put this into the plains.

And lastly, the cost. The archwings need launchers. Crafting launchers seemed reasonable until looking at what you really get out of them.  For the time that I did actually get to spend in the air, it didn't make too much of a difference during bounties other than not having to shoot through the tall grass. I mean the only real thing they seem to be good for is getting back to the gate after a bounty, which is useless if no one else is using their archwing since you always end up extracting based on the slowest player anyways. With how flimsy they are, I'd imagine you'd need about a dozen of them to provide any sort of air support during a bounty, and even then, it is just with the weapons you were already using anyways.

TLDR: I thought archwings in plains would have been a chance to actually add some life to the archwings and arch weapons we've invested in, but rarely get to use. It is what it should have been.  Instead what we got was a shadow of a system that was already lacking.

[Mattoropael]

What Skywing damage should be: Normal Archwing health, apply debuff to user if the AW is destroyed by enemy fire before ejecting.

What we got instead: Archwing displays normal health and shield, but dies if the Grineer sneezes at it.

 

What Skywing summoning should be: Craftable segment, infinite-use gear with cooldown (Landing craft air support charges already have a cooldown mechanic)

What we got instead: A resource sink to dissuade players from using it at all, and if you really are filthy rich in the resources you can chain-pull them for your entire team and then some.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Mattoropael

[Thatsecret]

14 minutes ago, Unagi604 said:

15 minutes ago, Unagi604 said:

 Also on this, if you use your melee while in your archwing, your archwing gets removed? (NOTE: I've only tried this once, and am not willing to waste another)

Well I actually try it more then once and it destroy it everytime. Sad indeed.

 

[Pyradus]

I agree. While using Elytron with almost 2,000 health/shields I am knocked out of the air by a single hit. With much less health and shields than this, I certainly can survive more than one hit on the ground. It seems to me units have a special damage bonus or instant knock out affect against Archwing.

The way Skywing was presented in the reveal trailer -- seamless, flowing, available with a push of a button. It looks like you jump up into the air and the Archwing simply comes to you.

In reality, you use the launcher (that has to be recharged with fish oil) and throw a little Vauban grenade onto the ground. Then you wait several seconds. Then you finally get in the Archwing! Then you get knocked out of your Archwing by a single missile.

[StinkyPygmy]

Personally my only real issue is that any of the anti air missiles just knock you straight out of the sky in one hit, making all that investment in health etc pointless.

If the anti air stuff did a tonne of damage instead I'd be much happier (in fact I'd rather get one shot and straight out die). Especially seeing as avoiding the missiles is a tad bugged out anyway and you get "hit" despite the fact the missiles didn't even touch you or explode near you.

Other then that I'm not too fussed, although a cool down mechanic might be a bit better than what we currently have as someone suggested already. Would also be a suitable drawback to getting knocked out of the sky rather than being forced to spam charges.

Give it time though lads, POE has just dropped and Imagine DE was trying to make sure skywing wasn't super OP which is did have the potential to be.

[Nobodys-Perfect]

Archwing in plains won't be satisfying or worth it at all to use until the gear item once crafted is fully reusable. I can excuse the fact it's sub par in combat and easily downed for it at least being a reliable way to quickly move about the map. It's exactly the type of mechanic that should be a 'once you get it, you've got it unlocked and can use it freely.' 

The implementation of the crafting costs for the charges is madness, Just another inventory number to manage like ciphers and energy pads, and a sink for resources which aren't tough to farm anyway. I think most players can agree they don't really want to have to manage this. We can use archwing in an unlimited sense in archwing and submersible missions, why does it cost anything at all for ordis to deploy our vehicle?

When you've got a limited number of things to use, like these charges - the natural response is to want to -not- spend them.  You get a 'nice' little thrill of 'argh, damn. I'm gonna have to grind out more of these eventually' every time you do.  You feel -bad- when you have to get out of your archwing to do anything other than zoom around, because you know you've just expended one of your limited charges. This saps all the fun out of it. Please address this DE.

 

 

[Cortanis]

My biggest issue with skywing is just basic auras knock you out of it. Not even damaging ones, but any. Grineer fire boy spotted and doesn't know you're there yet as you're speeding through at boosted speed? Too bad! Knocked out of skywing mode just so you can one shot the guy and go back into it so you can go to the other side of the map. Seriously, you don't even have to actually take damage. Just the aura debuff alone can knock out out.

[Vladokapuh]

Controls need to be fixed, theyre so unintuitive all of a sudden, theyre way worse than controls anywhere else. (like the roll instead of strafe OP mentioned)
Launcher needs to be changed. Craft it once, use as many times as you like, additional costs should be gone, but give it a little cooldown instead.
Transition should be atleast as quick as Transference (operator mode), dropping the little thing, and waiting for them to spawn, completly kills any dynamic use they could have had.
Some attacks just one hit knock you out of AW. This should be gone, but it wouldnt be as much of an issue if launcher was free, and was quick to use.
Quick melee makes you just jump out of AW aswell. Why?

This is really unpleasant, slow and costly to use. Needs a serious rework to say the least.

[Atekron]

3 hours ago, Unagi604 said:

(NOTE: I've only tried this once, and am not willing to waste another)

see, that's a problem! we afraide to waste a charge, cos it cost recources, that's so unfair and pathetic! in high speed and mobility game suddenly we come to the point when be fast and mobile cost us recources! 

[Caelward]

There's gotta be some sort of positive in here. Wait I know. We can actually interact with things while in archwing. Hack the lure, open the cache, hack the tower. We don't have to leave our archwing.

Too bad those actions keep us in one place, making us easy targets for knocking us out of the air. Oh well....

[Aelendril]

Also, do you know if we can actually stop and hover after going full speed? (Didn't have much time to try before getting shot down :D)

The vertical limit could use getting extended too, I don't think we can go higher than 50m above the ground.

[SnuggleBuckets]

Yup, have to agree, I wanted to like it, but the cost is horrible, especially when you factor in the limited charges and the horrible glitchy damage that knocks you out of archwing so easily, wasting your charge randomly, then the lack of archwing weapons, so you can't really level them up on the plains, and the controls feel extra sluggish, floaty and unresponsive compared to what it was, when pressing forward takes a lot of time to build up that momentum, and taking your hands off the buttons takes time to slow down, feeding into this unresponsive feeling, whereas classic archwing controls felt more snappier and immediate, responsive to player input.

[Cortanis]

58 minutes ago, Caelward said:

There's gotta be some sort of positive in here. Wait I know. We can actually interact with things while in archwing. Hack the lure, open the cache, hack the tower. We don't have to leave our archwing.

Too bad those actions keep us in one place, making us easy targets for knocking us out of the air. Oh well....

Problem. You can't. Skywing is apparently is ether bugged or outright capped at a certain minimum altitude from my experience. I've tried taking Amesha on the plains to try and cash in on the bubbles off of her #2. After gaining some altitude, it won't let me descend beyond a certain point. Pretty sure that's on purpose as it would be openly broken, but yeah.

13 minutes ago, Aelendril said:

Also, do you know if we can actually stop and hover after going full speed?

Yes you can. I often use Amesha and a sniper rifle to bubble up and go ham on everything from air advantage.

[Caelward]

7 hours ago, Cortanis said:

Problem. You can't. Skywing is apparently is ether bugged or outright capped at a certain minimum altitude from my experience. I've tried taking Amesha on the plains to try and cash in on the bubbles off of her #2. After gaining some altitude, it won't let me descend beyond a certain point. Pretty sure that's on purpose as it would be openly broken, but yeah.

Hmm. I have no problem dropping my altitude all the time to go into valleys or skim the water.

[Oreades]

Pretty much the only reason I use my Archwing is to get to extraction faster after a bounty. 

Not during the bounty mind you because I'm not wasting 5 of those charges every single bounty mission..... Occasinally I will cave for that one bounty that spawn your next target a disgusting 1,500+ meters away.... 

I don't think I'd mind all the limitations they put on AW if the charge was an infinite reusable but as it is consumable. Where AW should make the plains feel more fun they really feel like what they are doing is making them less irritating. 

[Batlan]

I hate how I manage to somehow survive a bit without dismounting my AW and feel like actually doing aerial attacks and then suddenly I just drop down, sometimes I see the projectile warning and try to evade those red homing missile thingies but sometimes its just a random explosion without any warning.

Also why in the demonstration they could just hop in the air and fly away and we have to toss this beacon and wait for a few seconds...

I also hate having to craft the consumables for using AW, but suppose it wouldn't be so bad if you could take more damage before dismounting and maybe let your teammates use your summoned Archwings.

I'm sure DE will keep fixing stuff at fast pace and hope they hear out the community and manage to boost up the fun-factor.

[Neightrix]

If we're gonna have archwing, let us have archwing. Sometimes you lose it to literally nothing. It should have to be outright destroyed to lose it. Also the low rubber ceiling needs to go. And it should have the same controls as space, it's missing the ability to reverse boost to stop and also be able to look and fly in different directions - and also allow it to descend to the ground using only crouch, not have to look and fly directly at the ground.

[Qloshae]

I have used 5 charges and every time I was shot out of the air almost instantly. It's outright silly. Wouldn't mind as much if it was infinite use, it would force confrontations, but this is just something else.

[OniDax]

Archwings should be a whole lot more resilient against Hellion rockets and Dargyn fire.

Also, the varying ceiling for archwing and you being literally pushed towards the ground needs to go.

And yes, we need a 3 - 5 minute or so cooldown for an infinitely-reusable Archwing launcher instead of consumable charges.

Edited October 18, 2017 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n

[MJ12]

The Archwing implementation in Plains is absolutely inadequate.

Grineer have anti-air missiles that home in on Archwings and do damage if you get in range. Okay. That's fine. I've played more than my share of Archwing, I got Odonata, Odonata P, Elytron, and Itzal all maxed. I can dodge missiles. Dodging missiles is fun.

But one hit means you instantly lose Archwing is just all sorts of lame.

As the OP said, Archwing use should be a thing on a cooldown timer, with infinite charges and shooting down Archwings should require actually depleting their health and shields.Some equivalent to Transference Static if you get shot down after using an Archwing but more significant (e.g. '-50% max shields/health for 1 minute' for example) would be more than enough to balance Archwing and encourage people to bail from their AWs if they start taking heavy fire.

In the long term, you could add dedicated anti-air interceptors, like an Interceptor Ogma or a modified version of the Grineer transport skiff with air-to-air missiles, if you needed Archwing use to be more 'balanced.'

This would limit the use of Archwing in a way which didn't require us to spend ages fishing, would be fun for players by giving them something to engage with, and would do exactly what Archwing integration in Plains is supposed to do in the first place-let players actually integrate Archwing into missions.

[TheGrimCorsair]

Vrush turret missiles and Hellion missiles are, thus far, the only thing I've seen knock me out of archwing. Regular damage doesn't do it.

[MirageKnight]

You guys are forgetting...you can play with DE's cool toys but you're not allowed to really enjoy them.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

I gave up, and just use titana. her controls are better for in air flight.

[k05h]

15 hours ago, Unagi604 said:

General usability. Now this one I'm curious about.  Who made the call on this? Why does the archwing rotate when trying to strafe while boosting? It doesn't do this anywhere else. It also starts to re-orient itself when you let off the boost so you can't hold your not-parallel-to-the-ground angle, which for me at least has made some not so great stops. Being able to go off angle was removed from space because it was messing a lot of people up, and someone thought it was a good idea to put this into the plains.

I fear that skywing will be similar flawed like sharkwing is. Archwing and all its controls are made for space. Anywhere else it will have issues and it will feel wrong and stripped down.

What would have made more sense would have been a simple jet pack similar to Zephyrs tailwind or what we know from Mass Effect. Press space and the jet pack will move you in the direction of travel (up and/or forward). Lore-wise this could be something that was salvaged from the Grineer and is fuelled by distilled fish oil. There could be a nice animation strapping on the jetpack while waiting for the door to the plains to open. - You could go all the way with different types of jetpacks: one is faster, one flys higher, one is for silent hovering, ...

Edited October 18, 2017 by k05h

[BhruicDearg]

It's really sad, in a way.  Here was a chance for them to take a generally disliked part of the game and integrate it in a way that would make people have second thoughts about it.  Instead, it's even *less* useful than it is otherwise.  As with a poster above, all I use it for is faster extractions.  Give us more extraction way points and I wouldn't even bother to use it at all.