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-Mittens-

Please Fix Fishing!!!

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 So I have some concerns around fishing in the Plains of Eidolon and how it functions as a whole.

1. You need specific spears for specific fish:
  This is a big no-no. In my honest opinion, you should have the spears be upgrades as you go through. Lanzo being the first and least usefull, and Peram being the best and most useful. As it is right now, you need to take up 3 of the 4 new gear wheel slots just for spears for fishing. With the suggested solution, you only need 1 spear in your gear wheel, and you have several other slots for useful things like codex scanners, and pads (energy/shield/health/ammo).
2. Fish will not spawn without specific spears/bait:
  This kinda goes back to the issue in point one, where you need specific spears. The issue here is simple; you need certain spears just to get certain fish to spawn. For instance, a Norg fish will not spawn without using the T3 Peram spear. If you are holding a T1 Lanzo spear or the T2 spear, they simply do not spawn. Now, I'm not 100% opposed to having certain spears to catch certain fish, but as I said earlier, it should be an upgrade process. You should upgrade your spear to the point you can catch every single fish, and not have spawns locked behind specific spears being held. 
  Next, bait. Now bait is in a better position than it was, but I still have issues with it. First of all, much like spears, you need specific bait to get specific fish to spawn. On paper this is not a problem, in practice however it's a lot worse. Bait does not guarantee a spawn of the fish, even if you throw more than one in the water, and even if you throw it at the ripples in the water (another issue I'll bring up later). This will be a major problem later down the road when you need rarer parts to make things like Amps and the like. I just fail to understand the reasoning behind locking fish spawns behind bait and/or spears. 
3. Ripples in the water and Bait:
  This is a minor issue, but one I still wish to address. It is incredibly annoying to throw bait at these random ripples in the water. Bait, as stated earlier, does not always guarantee a fish spawn. Not only is that an issue there, but it's an issue here with the ripples. Ripples are not guaranteed to spawn, and when they do, it's incredibly hard to throw bait at them if they are farther away. Next, this is not hinted at or explained anywhere in the game at all. My suggestion for this is to get rid of the ripples entirely and make bait work anywhere, and at anytime in the water.
4. Fish parts/requirements for builds:
  So earlier I mentioned how you need fish parts to make Amps and a slew of other things. For this, I have a simple question, why? Why do you need fish parts to make an Amp to fight an Eidolon? Why do you need fish parts to make an Arcane? This to me makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, you have to be Trusted (Rank 3/4 or so in Ostron Standing) to even get the final spear. Then, you need special bait to catch the fish you need just to make the first Amp, which you can get the parts for as early as Rank 2 in Quills. There is clearly more work to get one thing, to get another thing. I feel like this should be balanced so you can get everything in the same rank between the 2 different standings/syndicates. Then there are Arcanes, which also require some fish parts. Arcanes aren't as pressing of an issue as Amps are, but the question of "why" still applies. To me, Amps and Arcanes should be made from gems/minerals you mine out in the Plains. Fishing parts should be relegated purely to baits, dyes, and other fishing related things. 
5. The Grind:
  Since POE came out, Twitch Drops have became a thing to encourage people to watch streamers. As such, it is important I tell a story of sorts. I am a fan of the Warframe Partner, Brozime. In one of his most recent streams, he spent a little over 5 hours trying to get the fish he needed for Amp parts. Not every player has 5 hours to dedicate to get specific fish and their parts. Most casual players who don't dedicate a lot of time to the game will spend even longer trying to get said fish. It's asking a lot out of a player who either does, or does not have the time to grind out the fish. This point is essentially a combination of all my previous points. Needing specific spears, baits, having to know how to use bait (which is not explained), and then the requirements needed for building items. 

At the end of the day, this personally upsets me as fishing is my favorite activity in the Plains. I want the best out of fishing, and I want it to feel rewarding and less like a time sink with little to no reward. Please let me know if you share similar issues/concerns, I'm very interested in others' opinions on this matter. 

Take care and have a nice day! :satisfied:

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I wholeheartedly agree on the points of bait and ripples. You should throw them into the water and you should be guaranteed spawns. You should not be at the mercy of RNGesus on bait. The point of bait is to not be at the mercy of RNGesus.

My opinion on spears is a little more complicated. I agree on the gear slots problem. You should be able to carry one and have access to the rest either through the fishing gear menu and being able to switch with the mouse wheel. Fish spawns also shouldn't be affected by the spear you are holding. That said I don't necessarily agree with all of the spears being straight upgrades. I think spears 2 and 3 should be upgrades to spear 1 but sidegrades to each other, and you should be able to earn them at the same rank as that. The reason why I personally prefer that spear relationship has to do with their in game descriptions. Spear 1 is for soft fish, spear 2 is for fish with armored plates, and spear 3 is for scaly fish. Spears 2 and 3 are both for fish with different types of armor, but spear 1 is for unarmored fish. As it turns out if you shoot a man with an anti tank rifle he still dies. Why can't I catch spear 1 fish with spears 2 and 3? That said I think spears 2 and 3 at least make sense. Spear 2 having a larger and heavier tip helps it to force it's way through the tougher plates but losing it's momentum breaking off scales before it can sufficiently penetrate the fish proper. Spear 3's multiple tips help it get around the scales but it's light and doesn't carry the momentum needed to get through the armored plates. Regardless you shouldn't have to carry all of them in your gear and switching needs to be made much easier.

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I feel like they should use secondary fire to swap spear heads. So its one spear but you click through them for the head you need since you know what they look like.

 

As for the fish parts i believe that lore wise people found a way to substitute parts of animals for synthetic stuff. Like old pumps used leather before we had rubber. So i feel like they should make it easier to craft with fish stuff or harder with other materials so you have choices in some things.

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I am fine with carrying all of them, but they need to be put into one gear slot, and you can switch between them by pressing 1, 2, 3 (Can't use abilities while the spear is equipped). Fish will spawn based on what spears have been bought, if you only have 1 and 2, only fish that can be caught with those two spears will spawn.

 

Or, just, have all fish spawn at any time, but keep the function of having to hit the fish multiple times with the wrong spear. (I think it's like this now)

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If you aim at a fish the spear should also glow to indicate the right one. Or make the crosshairs change color. green for right one red for wrong.

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I've head canon'd the animal parts being used to secure favors and tradeskills from the locals, and not actually going into the more tech oriented crafting. 

It is still somewhat absurd thematically.

 

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11 minutes ago, PoisonHD said:

Can't use abilities while the spear is equipped

I can use abilities with a spear out. (Loki invisibility)

 

I agree though, there needs to be a better system. Why not replace the emote wheel with fishing spear choice? I don’t need to emote while fishing.

Otherwise, would they fit just on the standard gear wheel with the baits and dyes?

3 minutes ago, Lancars said:

If you aim at a fish the spear should also glow to indicate the right one.

Agreed. Or the fish has a highlight or something (distinct from dye).

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40 minutes ago, -Mittens- said:

Twitch Drops have became a thing to encourage people to watch streamers.

I could be wrong. But I was under the impression that this was limited time only. I believe ending Sunday/Monday.

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@krc473 I still think it would be easier to just have secondary fire swap spears for you and tell you the name on the bottom of the screen.

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6 minutes ago, Lancars said:

@krc473 I still think it would be easier to just have secondary fire swap spears for you and tell you the name on the bottom of the screen.

Personally, I would rather pick the one I want from the wheel. But using secondary fire is still better than what we have now.

I mean, there really is no need to shoot bait with secondary fire anyway.

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19 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Personally, I would rather pick the one I want from the wheel. But using secondary fire is still better than what we have now.

I mean, there really is no need to shoot bait with secondary fire anyway.

I said switch the spears you're using with secondary fire not use bait.

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I would rather just have the higher tier spears replace the lower tier ones. I would also just like the bait to work without having to find special pools to throw them in. The pools are hard to see and the bait dropping has very little control on where it goes.

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32 minutes ago, Lancars said:

I said switch the spears you're using with secondary fire not use bait.

I know what you said. Currently, secondary fire uses bait (for me anyway).

I was suggesting there is no good reason for this to be how you use bait.

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1 hour ago, krc473 said:

I can use abilities with a spear out. (Loki invisibility)

Huh, no abilities work with the spear out when I was trying.

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I am almost satisfied with the fishing part of PoE. Except for one thing that really have to change, the absolute horror of getting a rare fish. I understand that you have to use special baits to lure them out and i even understand that you must hit them several times but most of the time i am not able to catch them cause they flew too fast. So here are my suggestions: Make a Prime/Prisma harpoon which baro offers today for like lets say 1000 Ducats and 450K credits or Reduce the required hits to 1 or don' t let them flee.

I really love the fishing except when it comes to the rare ones it' s kinda too realistic and if i want such real fishing experience i go out and fish for real or buy/download a fishing simulator or something like that. 

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2 hours ago, PoisonHD said:

Huh, no abilities work with the spear out when I was trying.

As of right now, I can use any ability I have tried while holding the spear.

Even transference works. Once I return to the frame, a gun is out.

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5 hours ago, -Mittens- said:

 So I have some concerns around fishing in the Plains of Eidolon and how it functions as a whole.

1. You need specific spears for specific fish:
  This is a big no-no. In my honest opinion, you should have the spears be upgrades as you go through. Lanzo being the first and least usefull, and Peram being the best and most useful. As it is right now, you need to take up 3 of the 4 new gear wheel slots just for spears for fishing. With the suggested solution, you only need 1 spear in your gear wheel, and you have several other slots for useful things like codex scanners, and pads (energy/shield/health/ammo).
2. Fish will not spawn without specific spears/bait:
  This kinda goes back to the issue in point one, where you need specific spears. The issue here is simple; you need certain spears just to get certain fish to spawn. For instance, a Norg fish will not spawn without using the T3 Peram spear. If you are holding a T1 Lanzo spear or the T2 spear, they simply do not spawn. Now, I'm not 100% opposed to having certain spears to catch certain fish, but as I said earlier, it should be an upgrade process. You should upgrade your spear to the point you can catch every single fish, and not have spawns locked behind specific spears being held. 
  Next, bait. Now bait is in a better position than it was, but I still have issues with it. First of all, much like spears, you need specific bait to get specific fish to spawn. On paper this is not a problem, in practice however it's a lot worse. Bait does not guarantee a spawn of the fish, even if you throw more than one in the water, and even if you throw it at the ripples in the water (another issue I'll bring up later). This will be a major problem later down the road when you need rarer parts to make things like Amps and the like. I just fail to understand the reasoning behind locking fish spawns behind bait and/or spears. 
3. Ripples in the water and Bait:
  This is a minor issue, but one I still wish to address. It is incredibly annoying to throw bait at these random ripples in the water. Bait, as stated earlier, does not always guarantee a fish spawn. Not only is that an issue there, but it's an issue here with the ripples. Ripples are not guaranteed to spawn, and when they do, it's incredibly hard to throw bait at them if they are farther away. Next, this is not hinted at or explained anywhere in the game at all. My suggestion for this is to get rid of the ripples entirely and make bait work anywhere, and at anytime in the water.
4. Fish parts/requirements for builds:
  So earlier I mentioned how you need fish parts to make Amps and a slew of other things. For this, I have a simple question, why? Why do you need fish parts to make an Amp to fight an Eidolon? Why do you need fish parts to make an Arcane? This to me makes no sense whatsoever. First of all, you have to be Trusted (Rank 3/4 or so in Ostron Standing) to even get the final spear. Then, you need special bait to catch the fish you need just to make the first Amp, which you can get the parts for as early as Rank 2 in Quills. There is clearly more work to get one thing, to get another thing. I feel like this should be balanced so you can get everything in the same rank between the 2 different standings/syndicates. Then there are Arcanes, which also require some fish parts. Arcanes aren't as pressing of an issue as Amps are, but the question of "why" still applies. To me, Amps and Arcanes should be made from gems/minerals you mine out in the Plains. Fishing parts should be relegated purely to baits, dyes, and other fishing related things. 
5. The Grind:
  Since POE came out, Twitch Drops have became a thing to encourage people to watch streamers. As such, it is important I tell a story of sorts. I am a fan of the Warframe Partner, Brozime. In one of his most recent streams, he spent a little over 5 hours trying to get the fish he needed for Amp parts. Not every player has 5 hours to dedicate to get specific fish and their parts. Most casual players who don't dedicate a lot of time to the game will spend even longer trying to get said fish. It's asking a lot out of a player who either does, or does not have the time to grind out the fish. This point is essentially a combination of all my previous points. Needing specific spears, baits, having to know how to use bait (which is not explained), and then the requirements needed for building items. 

At the end of the day, this personally upsets me as fishing is my favorite activity in the Plains. I want the best out of fishing, and I want it to feel rewarding and less like a time sink with little to no reward. Please let me know if you share similar issues/concerns, I'm very interested in others' opinions on this matter. 

Take care and have a nice day! :satisfied:

I think the spear difference is good because the rock/paper/scissors of it is a bit of flavour.  I'm in two minds whether the choice/consequence thing is worth it - in theory they're probably thinking that there's a decision point as to what fish you're going to go after and therefore equip for that fish, using the limited slots available.  In theory that's a good idea, immersive, etc., but for it to work the different types of fish would have to spawn reliably in different areas, and I'm not sure that's fully fleshed out - you seem to get mixtures of fish types everywhere, but that could lead to frustration if you're unable to catch some fish types, or have to forego a catch you've spotted.

The grind thing I don't see.  The grind was awful on release, but they've been toning it down gradually to what players are more comfortable with (obviously because doing it the other way - increasing the grind from an easy grind - would have caused even more of a ruckus).  They have to find a sweet spot where what's comfortable for players intersects with what makes them money.  The player doesn't have to grind 5 hours solid like your streamer did - they can split that up into smaller sessions.

At the end of the day, vets forget what it was like when you start playing Warframe - requirements for crafting seem horrendous and you wonder how you're ever going to get anything done.  But by the time you've played the game for a month or so you're swimming in mats.  And so it will be for POE.

And meanwhile, we have something to get our teeth into, we can make our own little plans to attain little goals.  Which is what keeps players playing; so long as the basic gameplay is good, which it is in Warframe, it doesn't feel like a grind, until it does - but then the best course is simply to take a break. 

Nowhere is it written that one has to play a game continuously.  I've been playing for 3 years, but often take breaks.

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i 100% agree with all of this. fishing was something i looked forward to, still feels like it could be fun, but is so needlesly overcomplicated its rediculous.

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Initially I was looking forward to fishing, but this implementation with several tiers of bait, all of which are problematic and unreliable, is just too much.

Having to reserve 3/12 gear wheel slots just for fishing spears, is also too much.

 

I'm increasingly approaching a point where all my progress in PoE is locked behind needing a stack or seven of murkray livers, and I'm just thinking.. no, no, I REALLY don't want to spend a real life day or more spearfishing in warframe.

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IMO the issue with the spears is that they're sidegrades (you always need all 3) that are priced and locked like upgrades (you have to do a lot of work to get the 3rd one, and a decent bit just to get the 2nd). They need to choose: either every spear costs 500 standing and each catches different fish, or they keep the prices and become direct upgrades.

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In regards to OP and others talking about certain species of fish only spawning with certain spears, this line is pulled from the Wiki article on fishing:

" Spear type does not seem to influence spawning species, and all currently known species can be speared by any spear, although non-specialized spears would perform worse, requiring several hits. "

You can read more about it here: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Fishing

While I know a lot of what is on the wiki may not be fact, I still hold it in high regards as far as information goes. As for the spears, I say it's very nice that one spear isn't equally good against fleshy fish and heavily armored fish. I kind of agree that they should function like upgrades for their current prices, and I'm not opposed to them just being added to the fishing gear wheel since I doubt that we'll use all 12 slots, but I also like the variety.

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Water glare is another issue. Focusing wit ha spear should give us "Fish-Vision" that reduces glare through tenno science.

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21 minutes ago, Ketec said:

Water glare is another issue. Focusing wit ha spear should give us "Fish-Vision" that reduces glare through tenno science.

Turning off bloom helps, but only to an extent. I do agree that at least a specific area in our FOV should have reduced glare while aiming the fishing spear.

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7 minutes ago, Reiyd said:

Turning off bloom helps, but only to an extent. I do agree that at least a specific area in our FOV should have reduced glare while aiming the fishing spear.

I haven't used bloom for 3 years.

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one spear with diffrent heads would make things a bit better gear wheel wise.

plus the bait is kinda of semi convoluted still. the rippels are kind of heard to see at times. bait should just work when you put it in the water if the depth is correct.

 

I also think that the fish stuff as parts for craft will not scale well when they bring other open world areas into the game. they would be locked into alwas makeing it so you can fish in the areas, or you alwas have to go back to the plains. so it limits what they can do down the line.

dont get me wonrg, I fidn the fishing very fun, I just think some of the side mechanics of it could be better.

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