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      [Please Read Before Posting Threads] What Is And Isn't General Discussion?   31/03/16

      Tenno, Recently a lot of forum users have been posting feedback, bug and question threads about the game here in General Discussion, only to complain when community moderators or forum staff move their thread to the appropriate section.   General Discussion is not for feedback about the game, for bug reports or for help questions, we have other forum sections specifically for these things.   There are a few criteria for determining what feedback is and what general discussion is, but the two main criteria are the following: Objective - The goal of the thread Target Audience - Who is being addressed with the thread   A feedback thread's objective is affecting the game; be it through negative feedback (change is desired) or positive feedback (change is not desired). The Target Audience is the developers; your thread is directed towards DE, they are who you are making the thread for. If either two of these criteria are met then the thread is most likely feedback (and belongs in the appropriate feedback subforum).    A general discussion thread's objective is not to affect the game, it's to hold a discussion. And the Target Audience of a general discussion thread is other players and the community, not the developers. For example, a thread titled "What is your opinion on the recent changes to X from Update/Hotfix X?" would be a discussion thread, because its objective is a discussion about what players enjoy, and it's audience is other players.   Ultimately, a lot of what determines whether a thread is a feedback thread is the opening post. Although feedback threads can have discussions in them between players, this does not make it general discussion. What it boils down to is the goal of the thread and who it's addressing. It's a thread for conveying opinions to the developers, and people are bound to agree and disagree (and therefore start a discussion on said thread).   -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------   If you post something in General Discussion and find that it's no longer there, chances are it's been moved (if it was merged, we will try to notify you via private message, but sometimes when we have to merge a large number of threads we may not be able to). Here's a helpful guide for you to figure out where it might have been moved to:   Players Helping Players is the forum for when you have a question about something in the game or need help with something game-related--such as mod builds for frames/weapons, build comparisons, how to craft certain things, where to find components/mods/enemies, strategies for bosses, etc. Guides, solutions, tips and tricks can all be placed here. With hundreds of thousands of players, there's bound to be one that has experienced the same issue as you and has figured out how to solve it! PC Beta Bugs, PS4 Beta Bugs and XB1 Beta Bugs are the places for threads reporting malfunctioning parts of the game, bugs, things that have broken, et cetera (you should really make a support ticket too!). Fan Zone is the place for fan fiction, fan-sponsored contests, screenshots to share your achievements and Warframe-related video streams/Youtube channels. Fan Concepts is the place for concepts for new systems, warframes, weapons, and gameplay mechanics. PC Trading Post, PS4 Trading Post and XB1 Trading Post are for all things trading on the respective platforms. Threads looking to sell, buy, and trade go here, as well as any price checking. If you post a thread critiquing changes or content in the game, it's likely been moved to one of the Feedback Subforums, the guide to which is below.   Because feedback threads are by far the biggest offender in General Discussion, I've put together this guide on where feedback goes, breaking up and explaining the feedback subforums (Feedback forums are where the devs go for feedback regarding the game! Not General Discussion!). The list is a bit lengthy, so it's been put in spoiler tags:     So, for example, if you make a thread in General Discussion saying something like "The lore really needs work, and this is how I think it should be done" then it's probably going to get moved to the General Feedback forum. If you're dissatisfied with a recent patch or update and want to give DE a piece of your mind, the Specific Feedback associated with your platform (i.e. PC Specific Feedback or PS4 Specific feedback) is probably where it will get moved to (it may also be moved to the other feedback forums depending on what the thread is specifically about).   Wording is also very important, and your choice of description is also. This is why many people mix up feedback with discussion. In discussion, you are talking about things that are current, not commenting on how cool or disappointing they are. For example, 'What do you think is the best frame? I like Valkyr because of her focus on melee.' is General Discussion, whereas 'Valkyr is a really good frame. Her melee animations are nice, and her abilities compliment each other well.' is feedback.     tl;dr - We have specific subforums for feedback, bug reports, helping players, fan-made stuff and so on. General Discussion is not a "catch-all" forum, and for the sake of keeping things tidy and organized we'd really appreciate it if you didn't treat it as such!   If you have any questions, comments, suggestions, please feel free to post them here or to send me or the other moderators a private message!
N2-Power

Do people actually like the Operator?

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Hello everybody, 

I recently returned from a 2-years or so break from the game. (Ironically on the same day PoE went live, tho just by coincidence.) The reason I didn't play - and I thought I would never return - was that I was dissatisfied with the way the lore was going after the Second Dream, i.e. with the whole Operator business. My stance on this has not changed, but I discovered I still enjoy the game anyway. I simply try to avoid all content related to it. Which is why I am kind of pissed that they seem to try and force us to use the Operator, as in Kuva Missions and Teralyst fights. A friend of mine actually plays the Operator, at which point I either roll my eyes or make comments about how I want it (not even sure whether it's male or female) to die a horrible death. I recall that back then, there were those people who hated it and those who seemed to be okay with it, or at least were not surprised. Yesterday I have read some threads on PoE feedback and there have been complains about DE forcing us to use the operator as well, which has prompted me to make this thread. I don't want to trash-talk the whole thing, I just want to know what the players think at large, whether you like it gameplay and lore wise, just gameplay or just lore wise or not at all. 

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I like the operator, just wish it was not so kid like.

 

even before POE I was having fun screwing around with him/her with the vold beam when I got boredom from playing throughout a mission.

 

I am loving this update even with it being so buggy, but hey they are working the bugs out.

Edited by Firedtm
Fixed Misspellings and Grammar from the Auto Spell on the phone
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There are some who wish they were never iplemented...and you know, now that the viabilty of the Vazarin school doesn't even exist. I think I will join them.

PS: But no, seriously...I can't even heal objectives anymore and before you even think of the insta revives, NO! They are NOT enough, to make you a viable support player, what they are is simply something nice to have...but not when it's practically the only thing you have.

Edited by AlphaPHENIX
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I only don't like the Operator as its own warrior. I was fine with the Operator as it was implemented in The Second Dream, because at that point, Focus and the Operator really were just extensions of the Warframes. Then DE decided with the War within that they wanted the space kid to have some more active part in combat, even though that role is entirely the purpose of the Warframe...

Gating something by only being able to use the Operator is not how you implement a game mechanic that builds on the current game.

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Gameplay wise they are far better, there's actually an advantage to using them that isn't forced.

Lore-wise.....I don't buy into the whole "pop into being on the battlefield" thing. It's just weird. It's the kind of thing that would get ignored if Warframe ever became an anime or movie.  Their first iteration made far more sense to me. Powerful mental projections that unleashed there full force. I could see that in a movie or comic, kind of like a WF "Avatar mode". What we have now is more like ...."ok, we just teleport from the ship to the field at will now? Why? How?" Something about it just didn't sit right with me.

Edited by Hypernaut1
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Like with all things, some people like it, some people hate it, and the majority are probably indifferent to it. Those who hate it will post, those who like it will often feel obligated to chime in to the contrary on "dislike" threads but otherwise probably won't say anything, and those who are indifferent to it will rarely say anything unless directly asked.

Such is humanity.

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I like the operator a lot, the story/lore behind it and everything, and I also think the operator being a child fits, and it wouldn't work any other way. I also like using it in gameplay, and the focus rework made it a lot better. In my opinion, there are probably more people who like the operator, rather then hate it, people who hate something are just more vocal about it.

 

When I started the game I never honestly thought that the frames weren't controlled by something outside of them. That's what I assumed from the very beginning. 

Edited by PoisonHD
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11 minutes ago, Krion112 said:

I only don't like the Operator as its own warrior. I was fine with the Operator as it was implemented in The Second Dream, because at that point, Focus and the Operator really were just extensions of the Warframes. Then DE decided with the War within that they wanted the space kid to have some more active part in combat, even though that role is entirely the purpose of the Warframe...

Gating something by only being able to use the Operator is not how you implement a game mechanic that builds on the current game.

I agree. TSD mechanic is what should've been developed instead of making them into physical warriors

Edited by Hypernaut1
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Operator exists, and thats just fine. What i don´t like is him doing the fighting, thats the job of warframes.

Focus should be only passives and lets leave it that.

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6 minutes ago, Krion112 said:

I only don't like the Operator as its own warrior. I was fine with the Operator as it was implemented in The Second Dream, because at that point, Focus and the Operator really were just extensions of the Warframes. Then DE decided with the War within that they wanted the space kid to have some more active part in combat, even though that role is entirely the purpose of the Warframe...

Gating something by only being able to use the Operator is not how you implement a game mechanic that builds on the current game.

Exactly my feelings on this.

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It is complicated.

From one side u18 killed a lore direction that I loved, the Operator has really cringe voice lines and the personality of wet noodle.

From the other side a "journey" is not a bad concept as long as it is handled properly.

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As far as I see it, there is nothing wrong with a specific someone either liking or disliking the Operator as they are. Whether it pertains to lore, or to gameplay mechanics is irrelevant. You either like them or you don't, simple as that.

I personally don't have any issue with them, and just because they are becoming more of a physical presence to the Warframes, that Focus actually focuses on them, doesn't make them better than the Warframes by any means of the word. Operators are meant to supplement Warframes, and vice versa. The Operator is merely an extension of the Warframe, or better phrased, the Warframe has always been an extension of the Operator.

The thing that gets me more than anything, is when certain players go on little rants saying that they speak for everyone when they say everyone hates Operators. I personally don't, and I have no problem with having to adapt my play-style a bit to incorporate a bit of Operator mayhem into my standard Warframe killing sprees.

That's the way this game has always been. If they adapt, evolve and add something new. You either evolve with it, or you get left behind.
Or just choose not to use them, either way.

Edited by AEP8FlyBoy
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So far, I've only been able to tolerate "Warrior-Operator" when I think about them as Pilots of a tank.

I'll hop out of my damaged tank, and because I have Vazarin, I'll be able to preform emergency repairs via Protective Dash.

If I have Zenurik, I can perform an emergency refueling via Energizing Dash. 

 

if my main cannon (Warframe weapons) are out of ammo, I can fire with my pilot's sidearm.

 

But anything more than that I find terribly intrusive and excessive.

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I like them.

 

Pair with the fact that we're going to learn about Warframes in The Sacrifice and I'm happy these questions of "what are we" are being answered.

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I like them (both game and lore), although I expect more development in their personality, backstory and motivations.

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9 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

I really like them after Focus 2.0 and the new Amps and arcanes.

I have to admit, as much as I dislike the idea of physical operators, focus 2.0 has turned them from a hindrance into an interesting part of gameplay.

I like the dynamic of switching to the fragile operator to apply a buff/debuff and quickly switching back to my WF. It's almost like a cat and mouse game with the enemy. 

Focus 2.0 is slowly winning me over as I learn how to best use my school

Edited by Hypernaut1
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2 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I have to admit, as much as I dislike the idea of physical operators, focus 2.0 has turned them from a hindrance into an interesting part of gameplay.

I like the dynamic of switching to the fragile operator to apply a buff/debuff and quickly switching back to my WF. It's almost like a cat and mouse game with the enemy. 

Focus 2.0 is slowly winning me over as I learn how best to use my school

Give new things a bit of time, and then we won't be able to recognize a world without them.

This is exactly the reason I went out and bought two months worth of affinity boosters. I'm finally going to 'focus' on maxing my secondary schools.

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Remove them from the game, they should only be in the game lore wise

 

we have the warframes to fight, why should we use the terribly weak and clumsy operator?

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What I would have rather them done is just allow them to be silent and more customizable, perhaps allowing a larger range of ages.

I'd have preferred to imagine to myself what they are saying and thinking, their personality basically.  The lines my operator uses during battle do not match the mentality I employ during combat.

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16 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I have to admit, as much as I dislike the idea of physical operators, focus 2.0 has turned them from a hindrance into an interesting part of gameplay.

I like the dynamic of switching to the fragile operator to apply a buff/debuff and quickly switching back to my WF. It's almost like a cat and mouse game with the enemy. 

Focus 2.0 is slowly winning me over as I learn how to best use my school

I think I'm going to do the Tol'merr run as the Operator just to see how far I can get.

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IMO they weren't needed in the first place, were added purely for a new fashion frame and were changed so we're 'forced' to use them purely to validate their addition to the game.  I'm fully expecting a considerable amount of plat only cosmetics for the operator in the near future.  

The recent changes in some ways have made them better than before, they eject quicker and smoother (although return has a small 'stutter') so they're slightly better for kuva farming but honestly that's about the only thing I can see that's an improvement for me personally.  I still have ZERO interest in using them for anything else (the grind for focus points and quill standing isn't helping matters here) and the way they've been reworked so that we're 'forced' into them every time we want to use a 'passive' etc is annoying as anything especially for something like energy regen on zenurik.   They have the potential to have more survivability but that's pretty mute when it's behind the current grind walls.

I'll keep with zenurik purely because that's the focus school I used the most and still use the most.  Now the base passive is quite nice, extra energy is a nice little bonus when you pick up energy orbs and on a close quarter map like the starmap with lower level enemies it works quite well, although at the same time it's kind of unnecessary because there's often more than enough energy orbs. 

The energy regen ability is annoying as anything to use though, the regen of 5 energy (when maxed) is fine but it's the mechanic it's been stuck behind that's the problem for me.  Some of my frames require 4 to 5 void dashes to fill them up from scratch (more if it's not maxed) and there are times when this is necessary on the plains because there can be a large period of time with no enemies like when travelling between waypoints.  Combine that with the need to repeat every time a process that is basically eject, void dash, return to frame and ensure that my frame is inside the bubble for the energy to regen.  Not only is it completely pointless forced use of the operator there was nothing wrong with the old system that just ticked over nicely, the new system actually hurts 'caster' frames which need to use multiple abilities together.  Can it be improved to make it better and more 'usable' without going back to the old system, yes, a simple change that it doesn't stop until the energy is full (or what would have made it full at casting) and automatically triggering on our own frames would make a HUGE difference to it's usability although I'd still prefer the old system where you don't need to keep micromanaging energy.  

Will DE do anything about the issues, honestly I can't see them doing anything and as such the operators, at least in my case with zenurik, will basically just pop out and in again exactly like the old system just more often which ultimately didn't warrant the rework.  It might be different situation if I had focus points to get more branches etc but as I said the grind for focus standing is an issue.

At the end of the day I came to play this game due to the warframes, we only have 30+ after all to pick from, and it's a pretty simple perspective for me....If I wanted to play in a dual format with the operator and the 'warframe' there are games that were designed solely around that concept (titanfall for example) and don't feel like it's just been tacked on as an afterthought. 

Edited by LSG501
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