Vacuum addiction

[nellone]

I am really curious about the usage rate of companions in nowdays, shure about sentinels are still the most used, i would bet that most of the differece is caused by Vacuum.
I'm perfectly aware that is possible to live without the lazy mod, but it's all about efficency, it's all about time/resources.
This is a fact, otherwise resource boosters would not even exist. 

[Aurea_Hiigara]

1 hour ago, Nation_X said:

Why am i a troll because I have a different opinion v the OP? *rolls eyes*.

Snowflakes

Because your answers are non-witty one-liners peppered with insults directed at anyone who has a different opinion than your own. So yeah, that makes you a troll.

[Raynalle]

warframe, when the endgame transform the game in a walking simulator, have fun and shoot in a shooter game? naah, just walk around and grap every single thing from the ground when other do the job, efficency? how cute, a pro don't care...

and i thought the fishing was the end game

[Rage_Inducer]

"Vacuum is for the lazy"

Yeah 'cuz the game is about doing things the least effective way possible. That's why everybody goes in sorties with unmodded Mag, MK1-Braton, Lato and Skana right?

It's not like the whole game is built around you obtaining the means to obtain more means of obtaining more stuff.

This game is for hardcores only, vacuum casuals should just uninstall and set their PC on fire. Use the MK1-Paris like a true hardcore!

Running and gunning for... FUN!?, I'm sorry but you misspelled "wasting your time walking over everything" like a REAL warframe player.

You're not supposed to bulletjump everywhere, that's why the limit on bulletjumps is there, as well as the lack of bulletjump improving mods.

You're obviously supposed to stick to the ground and hide behind cover just like in Gears of War.

Why would I ever want others to have fun their way? The whole world is supposed to have fun MY way.

I never understand how people can be so blind to the game they claim to spend so long in.

You want a """hardcore""" game? Play something else.

Warframe is a casual game where you have fun your way. Having an option to turn off vacuum in the menu for everyone will just mean that those who like kavats and kubrows won't suffer from picking them and the special snowflakes that don't want it can just turn it off and "enjoy" the game however they like.

I WANT to give DE money for kavat and kubrow cosmetics but I won't because I know I won't use them for anything other than mastery and memes. That's just not right.

[Volinus7]

This thread alone showed how much stupid Warframe is...

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

6 hours ago, nellone said:

I really appreciated when the vacuum mod was spread over all sentilens, but now we need to do the step further.....
I tried many times to play with dogs and cats... but but, we have no choice, this is a resource grinding game and vacuum helps A LOT....
We are highly discouraged to use other companions, so please consider Vacuum as default function of all warframes...!!!

Once again, I will say this: vacuum is fine if it's earned.

I will not be okay with vacuum that is just given to us.

[Prime-Ares]

I'm just going to vouch for universal vacuum here. It irks me to this day still we can't just have it WITHOUT the use of a sentinel whenever we'd like to take our doggos / cats out for space walks.

For the troll and anyone that wants to reason? (Omg noooo! Ur being lazy vacuum shouldnt exist!)

Look, if Spyro The Dragon didn't have to walk directly over a gem in 1998 to collect it, I should not f***ing have to do so if rolling without a goddamn sentinel twenty shtting years later. This isn't anything new.

[BlackCoMerc]

While we are it, can they also work toward n Ayatan Stars? I mean, that stopping and bending over to pick something up is compelling game play and all, and I'd hate for something boring like Parkour or shooting to interfere with it, but it does get a little old.

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

6 hours ago, KeLaRo said:

use this.

This right here.

[Bobtm]

There's always a sort of issue with this sort of topic.  Part of it is a lot of very baseless claims made by both sides of the debate.

6 hours ago, Nation_X said:

Vacuum is for the lazy

The above quoted point is a fallacy.  And an extremely bad one at that.  It sets the discussion out on the wrong foot in a very bad way.  Which only serves to shelve most shots at having any sort of civilized discourse on this particular issue.

6 hours ago, Raynalle said:

the problem is simple, new player can only play with vacuum or farm is impossible for them

This is also blatantly false.  And this too causes a lot of issues with discussions on this topic.  Players are not at some stark and insurmountable disadvantage merely for not utilizing Vacuum in Warframe.  Any try to claim that such is the case is equally as asinine as the bogus claim of calling those who use Vacuum lazy.  Both things have no place in this discussion.

_________________________________________________________

The truth of this topic boils down to simple facts of game design and balance.  As well as trying to promote choice among options that exist.

The simple and short version;  Kavats provide exponentially stronger combat benefits compared to Sentinels.  Sentinels provide exponentially better utility benefits compared to Kavats.  Kubrows need a buff to their CC-oriented traits and/or tankiness to bring them up to the par for the other pets.

Vacuum speaks to the utility side of where the Sentinels exist in the realm of companion choices.  Vacuum, which is a variant of auto-looting, is a mechanic in this game.  Some games will allow auto-looting as a baseline feature, others do not.  And this is a literal game design decision that is made on purpose, with a direct intent behind why that choice was made.  Something players at large need to accept is that you cannot falsely claim that "Vacuum has to be innate" when there is no argument that supports it.  More than a few times I've seen many players, over many years' time, claim the following;

"Sentinels are better than Kubrows/Kavats, even without Vacuum."

But if what they're saying there is to be believed, why would they even make an argument for Vacuum to be decoupled from Sentinels in the first place?  So, what really spurs on this argument more than anything else?  Clearly players see some value in the other companion options.  Either that, or they're asking for an arbitrary change that would have zero impact on the game at large.  So to ask again, why exactly is this argument so commonly brought to the forefront?

People are unwilling to made decisions.

This has been a severely ongoing problem with Warframe over the course of its lifespan.  Players constantly wanting more and only more, and having no desire to make conscious decisions about what to sacrifice in order to gain an improvement elsewhere.  This same exact behavior can be viewed on multiple topics throughout the game.  While many, many, many Warframe augments are poorly designed, we see players always asking for a dedicated augment slot for those augments that are well designed.  In a lot of cases the baseline ability of the frame in question may not even be lacking at all.  Players just are totally unwilling to make modifications to their builds and sacrifice something in order to gain added options that the augment may add.

In an ideal system a player is never allowed to "have it all" all at once.  Rather, an ideal system for a game gives players a lot of great choices, and makes it feel very difficult for them to have to directly pick one thing in an area, and know that doing so locks them away from using something else that is also a great option.  The fact that so many players vehemently and continuously beg for Vacuum to be made automatic partly shows that DE is on the right track with the current iteration with the system.  Because clearly players (even if they won't admit it) see enough benefit from using an alternate pet that they feel like they're missing out on something so bad, that they are compelled to find a way to have both things at once.

Now mind you, this doesn't mean that "everything is peachy keen and perfect right now precisely how it is" by any stretch of the imagination.  There are ways you could incorporate extra alternative options to allow players to choose Vacuum in another area beyond only having it in the realm of companions alone.  This would also apply to many other areas where we have choice options, but those aren't relevant to the topic at hand.  So to keep at at Vacuum, there could be alternatives opened up in other systems.

Put a high capacity cost Exilus mod in game (around 16 drain at max rank) and let folks have that as an alternative if they wish to slap an Exilus Adapter and probably a forma in extra to gain Vacuum for their frame without the use of a Sentinel.  Shoot, we have mod sets now, they could easily have 1 mod in a set have Vacuum on it, or have a set effect be Vacuum.  They could open up some extra nodes in every Focus School, that could allow variants of Vacuum type effects under alternate circumstances.

Madurai's could grant a temporary Vacuum effect for a player any time they one-shot an enemy from full HP to zero (in keeping with their focus on kill all the things).  Zenurik's could grant temporary Vacuum any time a player picked up an energy orb.  Unairu could get it where (outlast) get Vacuum turned on as soon as their frame's HP is below 75%.  Naramon's could pop on prompt or ground Finisher.  And I don't have an idea for Vazarin.

There could even be a series of other Exilus mods atop the basic variant, that offer Vacuum under a contingency like "3 seconds of Vacuum per headshot, stacks up to 5 times" for a much lower capacity cost like 7.

At the end of the day it's equally as wrong to insist that Vacuum should rightfully be default, as it is to insist that Vacuum is only for lazy players.  Both of those points are entirely contrived and closed-minded in their very core nature.  Games are best designed when they offer great and meaningful choices.  So why not expand upon the existing system by adding more choices?

[Misgenesis]

 

Time and time again you yourself are the problem if you find yourself only using Vacuum. And what do i see every time i open a vacuum thread, black and white arguments for it such as ''i can only have my face glued to the ground OR shoot enemies''.

Can you also not move and aim at the same time?

4 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

There is no logical, sound argument against vacuum being universal. Plenty of Pros. No real Cons.

It's not a balance issue. It's not a power level increase. It's just added convenience.

Come on, you should know better than to blatantly ignore arguments against it. This isnt logical.

It is a balance issue first and foremost, if as one mod it didnt pick up ammo, health and energy i wouldnt be arguing at all. DE clearly acknowledged this when they first wanted to split the mod.

1 hour ago, Prime-Ares said:

Look, if Spyro The Dragon didn't have to walk directly over a gem in 1998 to collect it

You dont, theyve slightly increased the pick up range on frames

Spoiler

Spoiler

And for ammo

Spoiler

Not that you would have noticed i suppose.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Misgenesis

[BlackCoMerc]

22 minutes ago, Misgenesis said:

Time and time again you yourself are the problem if you find yourself only using Vacuum. And what do i see every time i open a vacuum thread, black and white arguments for it such as ''i can only have my face glued to the ground OR shoot enemies''.

Can you also not move and aim at the same time?

Come on, you should know better than to blatantly ignore arguments against it. This isnt logical.

It is a balance issue first and foremost, if as one mod it didnt pick up ammo, health and energy i wouldnt be arguing at all. DE clearly acknowledged this when they first wanted to split the mod.

To call it a balance issue is, frankly, a stupid argument. There's no power level increase in not having to walk 10 feet every 2 minutes. It's not about balance.

Which doesn't matter anyway. This is the most poorly balanced game I have ever played. OP frames and weapons; sponges enemies with One shot kills at high levels. Claims that anything currently happening here are at all related to balance are laughably absurd.

[Misgenesis]

8 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

To call it a balance issue is, frankly, a stupid argument. There's no power level increase in not having to walk 10 feet every 2 minutes. It's not about balance.

Which doesn't matter anyway. This is the most poorly balanced game I have ever played. OP frames and weapons; sponges enemies with One shot kills at high levels. Claims that anything currently happening here are at all related to balance are laughably absurd.

Its not about increase in power, its about keeping some resemblance of expendable resource management in the game. I dont want the game to be further dumbed down into only pressing W and MB1. Why have expendable resources at that point?

One thing being bad doesnt excuse another. Dont come to the forums if youve given up on balance, i intend to fight for it.

[Fractalisomega]

Most of the resources you have in the game get stockpiled to insane levels and having vacuum for them is pointless.....

Loot detection via any mod is ok but fails to highlight rare items or even show differences between materials or containers.....

I'd like it if you pets could just PICK UP materials by walking over them.... they aren't going to hunt down each and every one but they're bound to pick up more than they are now and make maintaining your resource count easier

Edited October 26, 2017 by Fractalisomega

[(PSN)zedlanik]

18 hours ago, KeLaRo said:

use this.

This helps me alot collecting syndicate statues what ever they are called for loot this is actually good 

[Xagulz]

13 hours ago, Bobtm said:

So why not expand upon the existing system by adding more choices?

+1

I think it would be really cool for more vacuum options.  I (like many others apparently) would really enjoy using other companions, but I personally find the lack of vacuum to be inefficient. Several vacuum exilus variants would for sure help (maybe even solve) the problem. Personally, I would gladly give up that mod slot for vacuum, and any situation where I found myself needing it, I would throw on the sentinel instead. More options are always better!

With that said, I wouldn't be opposed to universal vacuum either, as long as sentinels receive something else useful in its place.

[nellone]

15 hours ago, Bobtm said:

 

People are unwilling to made decisions.

 

Do you think choosing Sentinels for Vacuum instead of other pets is not a decision?

Sadly, it's an unhappy one... 
During my experience in warframe i wanted to play every aspect of the gameplay... and looking at all companion alternatives, despite the wide range of choices (because there are many of them), i simply found a common lack of usefulness when i compare sentinels and other stuff... i'm focusing on helping me to obtain new gear, because that is the main objective of this game.
They could work on a more comprhensive and deep Vacuum system, but looking at Warframe recent updates, i doubt they can sustain or want to addres theyr resources on this, instead of building new open world maps or fixing bugs.

Edited October 27, 2017 by nellone

[DeltaPangaea]

How exactly are people arguing against this?

You're not special for choosing not to use vacuum. You're not better than anyone else for it, so ditch the smug.

It's just a quality of life effect. Would you argue that Stamina was really important because it made the game more complex? That removing it was dumbing the game down as opposed to removing something that was just a pain in the &#!?

DE had the stats on how many people used Carrier, now I wanna see the stats on how many people still use Vacuum. Vacuum as a sentinel mod can still exist no worries, just make it extend the natural radius.

[BoomyGordo]

16 minutes ago, DeltaPangaea said:

How exactly are people arguing against this?

trolls and people with the "my way or the highway" mentality. They do it their own way and want to deny people the choice because its not their way

[Anuros]

 

Ok.. So after reading through all the posts i do have a suggestion to throw out onto the table. But before than, lets define the key differences between the carriers and the kubrows. When it cones to offensive capabilities, kubrows are king. Despite having a moddabke rifle for sentinels, kubrows take the damage dishing cake. While sentinels, have kept their quality of life role, bringing support utility to our warframes in different ways.

This could be an opportunity here that DE could take to further refine the kubrow vs sentinel rift. I agree with the notion to give both kubrows and sentinels vacuum. HOWEVER, with that said, there should be some sort of trade off. Since sentinels have always been the ever so useful utility specialists, why not step that up a bit further?

like helios with its shielding capability and djin with its "charm" mechanic, amplify them at its base to be more effective to a greater degree. Also straight up change carrier's ability to something like a small "flash grenade" style radial blind or something of the sort.

I was also given this thought when using an elixus adapter, but why not have a similar thing with sentinels where you can have "adaptable mods" that one could place between both warframe and sentinel.

The mods would be ones that rarely get used in frame builds, which tend to increase quality of life mods. Like ammo mutation, master looter, radar, etc. That instead of taking a valuable warframe slot, you can use an item to modify a mod slot on your sentinel to carry an "adaptable mod"?

this way sentinels could keep their idebtoty as utility based "quality of life" companions while kubrows keep their identities as the offensive type support. Old unused mods would see greater use, and those on the fence between kubrows and sentinels could have peace of mind and choose a pet they enjoy instead of being as divided between playstyles.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Anuros

[blackheartstar_pc]

42 minutes ago, DeltaPangaea said:

How exactly are people arguing against this?

Picking up loot from downed enemies is a far more rewarding/enjoyable way to play. Vacuum takes that a way and to me removes a part of the video game feel. I don't understand how so people argue for it seeing as it removes from the game experience.

[DeltaPangaea]

3 minutes ago, blackheartstar_pc said:

Picking up loot from downed enemies is a far more rewarding/enjoyable way to play. Vacuum takes that a way and to me removes a part of the video game feel. I don't understand how so people argue for it seeing as it removes from the game experience.

Well I mean.

I don't wanna discount what you find fun, but I don't see 'walking over to the thing' as a critical part of the process. I mean I still have to walk over to the thing anyway, something drops on the other side of the map, I still go 'ooh, a thing', I just don't have to mash my face into it. Especially considering that the primary method of getting around in this dang game is inaccurate rolling and bullet jumping.

If anything special pops up, the game lets me know. Mods, blueprints, they get prominent popups. And the most important stuff in the game, stuff to actually get excited over, is usually not dropped as items anyway?

I don't get it man. I don't get how this is something people are getting so worked up over.

[Xagulz]

2 minutes ago, blackheartstar_pc said:

Vacuum takes that a way and to me removes a part of the video game feel.

Some people play for the shooting, some play for the looting, some for exploration, and some just like cool looking things. Arguing against an OPTION that people can choose to use or not just because said option is not something you would use personally is pretty silly. It would be different if everyone was forced to pick up each individual item now and the proposal was to add in vacuum, but that's not really the case here... Vacuum already exists, just forcing people who wish to use it into a single companion choice with no alternative.

[Helaton]

I have vacuum on all the time.  It is a tactically superior mod that allows for me to divert my attention to the combat and situation around me rather than focus my attention on collecting shiney's while my mates are dealing with enemies. I really like my kubrows and kavats and my baby helminth (he's so cute and his personality is infectious *drumrolls*), but for practical considerations and the need to make sure I don't miss large amounts of materials over time that are needed for everything (*stares at you Hema blueprint*), I take a vacuum every mission.

[nellone]

By any chance, i'm wondering if this topic will be examined by any one that have a say