Atlas Rework with Suggestions

[MuscleBeach]

The spoiler at the bottom of this post contains my original thread post which promoted a good amount of discussion and lots of very different ideas on how to fix Atlas's kit. A lot of the ideas aren't good for just Atlas, but for future Warframes too. Feel free to read it over if you're interested.

 

Here are the ideas and changes I feel are best after reading everyone's feedback and ideas.

Atlas's issues:

1. Survivability between punches is bad at sortie levels. I found a good solution but it requires Quick Thinking + (Primed) Flow + Rage+ Vitality. This has worked incredibly well but it's also 4 mods dedicated to staying alive which really limits how you can build Atlas. I've tested out focusing on armor, this works much much better.
2. His skills, outside of Landslide, are subpar and there are no practical situations to use them instead of just casting more Landslides. 

 

Landslide: This skill is nearly perfect. It needs no buffs, just quality of life fixes. 

1. You can't target ragdolled enemies with Landslide. This is an issue because Atlas dies very quickly when not punching and this creates moments of vulnerability every 3 punches. Solution: Make ragdolled enemies targetable (preferred option) or make it a knockdown instead.
2. Lackluster augment mod. Everything behind me is dead already because punching means you're moving forward. Solution: I don't have a specific preferred change in mind for this but make it add survivability in some way. This could be increased health/defense or staying true to its name, Path of Statues, every 5 meters Atlas travels with a Landslide, he leaves behind statues of himself, taunting nearby enemies.

Tectonics: Some say this is useless. I think that is largely due to Atlas's constantly moving play-style, he doesn't need a wall but it still has uses.

1. The wall dies easily. The scaling during its invulnerability isn't very good because it's small and doesn't get shot much like a Snow Globe Solution: Buff its health a little. Buff its invulnerability duration OR buff its health more than a little. 
2. The recast boulder ability is not useful. It's hard to aim, it does barely any damage, and isn't a reliable form of CC, even in a hallway. Solution: Recasting the wall summons a mini-Rumbler. This promotes an alternate build to Landsliding which is a play-style that would probably like to have a wall. The Rumbler would be weaker than normal Rumblers but also much quicker, like a new type of Rumbler. Recasting tectonics while the rumbler is active will destroy the mini-rumbler. The mini-rumbler would have half the stats of a normal Rumbler BUT have double the speed of them. It would lose the stone toss ability but give it a short range dash on attacks. Additional Change: The above solution could be an augment mod and the current augment mod, Tectonic Fracture, could be the normal Tectonics skill. Or Tectonic Fracture can become the change I suggested. 

Petrify: There are no practical opportunities where using Petrify is a good idea at sortie levels (trust me, I've tried many times and failed every time. Yes, EVERY!). This will require the biggest changes. I don't believe this skill is fixable without at least some mechanic and functional changes. 

1. On a warframe like Atlas where mobility is heavily encouraged, Petrify cannot be a skill that locks you down and only hits a narrow area.
2. Tweak Solution: Tweak as in adding a bonus effect like with the recent Sleight of hand change. Add a circular AOE stoning effect (replacing or in addition to the cone) with lesser range and lesser strength, that way Atlas isn't completely getting blown to bits by the 300 degrees that petrify isn't hitting. 
3. Radical but preferred Solution: Cast for 50 energy, lasting 20 seconds. While Petrify is active, Atlas and Rumblers emit a Petrifying aura, petrifying enemies within 5m for 5 seconds. Enemies killed while petrified explode dealing X damage (or 10% of max health for scaling) to enemies within 8 Meters as 70% Impact, 30% Puncture (or 100% Blast damage). Petrified explosions are unaffected by range or power strength. This explosion would trigger no matter who or what kills them, it's something that would be inherent to petrified enemies.
4. Comments about Radical Solution: This compliments Landslide but more importantly, it promotes the use of Rumblers, which currently have no battlefield presence, besides their looks. It makes Rumbler builds more viable so you don't have to be punching all the time and can make better use of the Tectonic wall. This + Rumblers also helps with Atlas's survivability issues by allowing the rumblers to CC and distract some enemies. Low range and Petrify duration requires balanced modding and keeps it from being too strong as no stat can be sacrificed completely. The petrify explosions is a good way to add a small amount of scaling damage to Atlas. If giving the Rumblers the aura too is overpowered, then make the petrification strength half as strong as Atlas's. Augment mod would not need to be changed at all. 

Rumblers: They have no battlefield presence. What this means is when I cast them, the tides of battle don't shift in any noticeable way. Frost presses 4 and everything is frozen and loses its armor. Atlas presses 4 and two big rocks are blocking your vision. Hooray! Do note, with my Petrify changes, they will have some presence just from that. This is the hardest skill for me to give suggestions too. A buff around the board for Rumblers would probably be good but I will attempt specific suggestions.

1. They are too slow to engage in combat. They're weak, even in a high power strength build. Solution: I think they appear weak because they can't acquire new targets quickly enough. So I'm asking for the AI to be buffed. Make them more aggressive and possibly a slight buff to attack speed. Also, increasing the frequency that they throw Stones would help with this. 
2. Comments about Rumbler Changes: Atlas has 2 skills that can be built around: Landslide and Rumblers. Buffing Rumblers and allowing the mini-rumbler from my tectonics changes would allow for a new, viable, play-style, without sacrificing any of Atlas's current themes, and where Landslide actually becomes the least useful skill to use in it without making Atlas overpowered.  

 

How these changes address Atlas's issues: Red is the negatives I mentioned before. Black are how the issues have been addressed. 

1. Survivability between punches is bad at sortie levels. I found a good solution but it requires Quick Thinking + (Primed) Flow + Rage+ Vitality. This has worked incredibly well but it's also 4 mods dedicated to staying alive which really limits how you can build Atlas. I've tested out focusing on armor, this works much much better. This is actually a very hard issue to address without changing the skills he has. I mentioned the Landslide Augment which should add survivability and also my Radical changes to Petrify. For a Landslide build, the Quick Thinking setup is satisfactory. For a Rumbler build, my Petrify changes in combination with the Rumblers would provide a decent defense against enemies by slowing/petrifying people that are near and far through your Rumblers. 
2. His skills, outside of Landslide, are sub-par and there are no practical situations to use them instead of just casting more Landslides. Tectonics has the mini-rumbler when recasting. It now has a purpose in a landslide build as the rolling boulder and a wall are not very good with landslide but a mini-rumbler to fight alongside you is. The mini-rumbler also provides another way to petrify enemies outside of the main Rumblers. Petrify is now usable due to its passive play-stlye (passive skills are fine when done right), allowing for some pocket CC and synergy with Rumblers. Rumblers are now more useful due to Petrify and their AI improvements, allowing for a build that doesn't require punching.  

 

Original Post:

Spoiler

 

TLDR Conclusion of Changes:

• Landslide doesn't change much. Just some fixes that should happen regardless of a full rework. Reworked augment mod to help with survivability.
• Tectonics, altered its recast ability to be more useful by turning into a golem. Gave it interaction with Landslide.
• Petrify was reworked into a useful CC ability and also has a small scaling damage portion to it that interacts with Landslide.
• Rumblers was reworked into a shielding ability that summons golems as it breaks.

 

Please let me know what you think. I will take any and all criticisms, just keep it civil. The goal here is to propose a fun and balanced change to Atlas that improves on his current weaknesses so that he is no longer the least used Warframe. 

A quick snipet before we get into the details of my proposed rework:

Spoiler

I believe every frame should have 1 build that is Sortie 3 and Kuva Flood capable. If a Frame can't bring something good to that level of a mission then that Warframe needs a change/buff. Those are missions with content that is I believe the Devs expect players to be doing (not that they have to) and therefore you should be given the tools to bring the Warframe of your choice (it's the name of the game, not guns and axes)  and be an asset to the team. Every frame has its strengths and weaknesses in certain mission types. With that said, I think Atlas does meet that requirement... barely, with only one real way to build him no matter what level of content you're doing. 

Now I said he barely meets that criteria even though I do just fine in those missions. I don't die as instantly as I probably make it sound but it is a quick ticking time bomb as his only defense mechanism is invulnerability while punching. And I main Atlas nowadays so I've definitely refined him and have his play style down. DE you have statistics on how much he's played. There are reasons for that. 

 

 

Atlas

I'm getting tired of hearing "Oh sweet, an Atlas! Those are pretty rare to see!" 

The best change to him depends on how much DE is willing to change his abilities. If Limbo can get a big overhaul, I don't see why Atlas can't.

 

Pros:

Punching things is fun.

He's my favorite Warframe!

Cons:

His ability kit is selfish and 3/4 useless (i'll explain in each ability section).

He's pretty squishy for being "Titan of stone, Lord of Earthly Elementals"

 

 

Passive:

 Great! One of the best actually. Don't change this :)

 

Lanslide:

Most fun skill in the game! And possibly the best 1 ability? Not that being the 1 ability means much. 

 

Issues:

• If I stop punching I die. If enemies are too spread out for me to punch in immediate succession, I stop punching and die. This is at Sortie 3 lvls, which is my standard for what coherent builds should be able to handle. This is with Vitality + Redirection + 45% armor and a carrier with medi-ray, shield ability thingy, and shield recharge. Nearly every mod I can put for survivability. 
• Landslide Augment is useless. If I'm punching things, there's no one behind me. 
• I've died so many times from my 3rd hit rag dolling an enemy who I can't then punch again. I'm not even sure if this was intended or a bug. But like I said before, if I stop punching I die. 

Solutions: 

• Let us punch rag dolled enemies or change rag doll to knockdown (even though that's way less cool it'll at least be more functional).
• Replacing the current Augment Mod with the one I put in spoiler will help solve the squishy issue. I think a damage shield would be better but I wasn't sure if it would be too good so I went with the safe side and chose boosting armor instead. 

Spoiler

New Landslide Augment, Havoc Armor: Every meter Atlas travels during Landslide gives Atlas +25% Armor for 5 Seconds. Number of stacks caps out as his max Landslide charge distance, rounded down, and recasting would refresh duration. Augment mod not directly affected by Ability mods. 

 

Tectonics:

Issues: 

• Doesn't cover much area.
• Requires Augment to fix the above issue. Doesn't actually fix the above issue.
• Augment removes the Rolling part of the wall.
• Rolling part of the wall deals like no damage even with max power strength and its CC capabilities are laughable.
• Trolls will try to push you off of the extraction platforms in space with the wall rolling ability. Some days, this is not an issue :P

Solutions:

• Reduce cost of Tectonics to 25. You can only have 1 anyways (unless you use augment) and it's nothing special. 
• Let us interact with our wall by punching it. We punch it and pieces fly out of it In the direction we punched it, dealing damage but also breaking chunks (health) out of our wall. This would be direct punches at it, not the landslide AOE. For simplicity, it can be an AOE effect but a conal effect would represent what's happening the best. 

Spoiler

Add to the ability: Using Landslide on Tectonics will send Shrapnel outward, killing your foes. 10% of walls max health per punch. Distributes that 10% damage among 9 Pellets, each dealing 60% impact, 30% puncture, 10% slash damage. 10% status chance not affected by mods. 5% Crit chance not affected by mods. Cone is 45 degrees and 10m long. The range of the cone is affected by Range mods for distance, not radius. Does not go through obstacles.

 

• Change the roll ability into a Transform wall into golem ability. Make them as small as the smaller sized golems we can currently make for less screen clutter. 
• Give these the same stats as our current golems. They're not as powerful as they appear on paper. They are too slow and don't aoe to make up for it, I believe (except on death). More on this in the Rumblers ability section.
• With this change the Augment can stay as is, though it's still not worth the warframe mod slot. 
• Alternatively, you can make the current augment the new normal and make the augment do the golem parts I've suggested.

 

Petrify:

Issues: 

• Worst ability in the game? I can spam it at max power strength for the quickest stoning and it's still not good. 

Solution:

• There is only one possible solution. New ability, Stone Archon! Or something else edgy like that. I guess Petrifying Ward/Idol could work too.

Spoiler

Whenever Atlas kills an enemy (The Atlas player, his guns, or abilities have to be the cause of death) within 10m (not affected by mods) range of Atlas, a pulse of Petrifying energy emanates from Atlas, turning all the infidels enemies within 20m (Is affected by mods) range into stone for 10 seconds (affected by mods). 

Stoned enemies shatter in a direction when killed by Atlas's Landslide, just like the wall idea I gave. The only differences: They have to die from the punch to do the shatter blast. They deal 10% of their max health in damage (yay for scaling abilities!). The range would be more narrow, 30 degree cone, 10m distance. 

The ability is a toggle ability. Costs 10 energy every time it triggers, affected by mods. I'm not sure if 6 is a lot or a little or just right but you get the idea. Energy is refunded if no enemies were within range. 

• This ability gives Atlas the CC and survivability he needs. And I managed to keep it themed on petrifying people! 
• The mechanics on who and how people get turned to stone stay the same. 
• And of course a beautiful new augment to go with it, Return to Earth!

Spoiler

When Atlas kills a stoned enemy, instead of shattering, a lesser golem is summoned. (See rumblers ability for stats on lesser golems)

 

Rumblers:

Issues:

• To use them you must build away from his punching ability. His punch ability currently is his only viable ability. These really don't make an impact on the battlefield. They sound strong on paper but they don't perform well at all. I'm going to propose a new ability as also use this section to detail how golems should be changed, as I still have them in the abilities I have thought up. 

Solutions: 

• Due to the changes I've made, there should be no cap on the number of Rumblers (that I keep calling golems) that you can have. 
• New Ability, Stone Ward.

Spoiler

Wrap yourself in Earth (you do this to your fists with landslide, why not the rest of our body?) granting a damage absorbing shield (like Rhino/Nezha, not warframe shields).

Shields 200 damage (affected by power strength). Whenever you take a minimum of 10% of the shields health within a 1 second time span, you create a lesser golem.  Stone Ward cannot be recast until it expires. 

Costs 50 Energy

Lesser Golem stats: They have 20% of the damaging stats of all the other golems, smaller size, about Knee/thigh high. Lesser Golems don't throw rocks and they do not explode on death. Instead they Landslide with altered function. 8m charging range and that's it. Basically just punchers that can charge up to 8m. Give it a 5 second cooldown so they don't bounce off the walls like children. 

• I opted to exclude an "ultimate" ability as I felt it was the best way to go. If anything, my Petrify replacement ability would be the new ultimate.
• The idea was that only the bigger chunks that get blasted off of you turn into a mini golem. 
• And of course, an Augment for it, Recycled Earth:

Spoiler

When a mini Golem Dies, it drops little clumps of  earth that you can pick up to restore 5% of Stone Ward's shields (affected by power strength). Augment also allows you to go 10% over your shield max by picking up the clumps of earth. 

 

Let me know your thoughts!

 

PS, Random possible spoiler: 

Spoiler

No idea what's going on with Umbra Warframes but if it's anything like priming a warframe, opposed to being just a skin, Atlas would probably make a better Umbra than prime ;) Or dangle him by his Achilles and dip him in prisma crystals! :D That actually kind of fits...

 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by MuscleBeach
Typos

[KaizergidorahXi]

I love this idea. Atlas is one of my favorite frames but he doesn't get much use anymore.

[Ninjamurai]

Fellow Atlas player here, I too have gotten the "Oh wow an Atlas in a Sortie mission" a few times before as well.

I really like some of your suggestions, because after playing dozens of dozens of hours as Atlas, and then playing as Frost for a much shorter period of time, I can finally see the weaknesses that my favorite Frame has.

His #1 Punch is awesome & fun, but a little dinky at the highest levels. It can help give breathing room to him & teammates, but if it doesn't kill the enemies then they just end up coming back or attacking at a distance from being launched. And yeah, if the enemies are tough or specially augmented for the sortie, Atlas can be super squishy unless he's punching 24/7. I really like your idea for the faction augment mod rework here, something that will actually be useful. If he sends all enemies around him flying, then what use will a trail behind him be? Earning temporary extra armor from punching will go a long way to making him better.

His #2 can be OK when it comes to mobile defense or excavation, but only really if he has the augment mod that lets him place 3 walls (And even then, this ability is severely overshadowed by Frosts globes). Overall though, his walls are rarely ever worth using, especially if he's using the wall as a boulder to attack enemies. Making the default wall ability have more of a shotgun spread of shrapnel when punched, instead of a precise & weak boulder, could help make the wall more viable in more situations.

His #3 is something I've only found 1 use for, & that was freezing speedy kavats in place so I could scan them for genetic code. Atlas' #3 is kind of like a much much worse #1: Very little range, no targeting, doesn't last too long, and doesn't even really control the crowd as much as just blasting them all away with his landslide punch does. Almost anything could make this ability more worthwhile.

And lastly, his #4 rock buddies. They are OK little helpers, but their biggest weakness IMO is that they only last for around 50 seconds, combined with them being his only ability affected by duration, meaning there's no point in spending a mod slot for only one ability that doesn't help all that much. I find that they survive damage fine, they deal OK chunks of damage to enemies, & send enemies flying like I do. But yeah, it's very rarely worth spending the energy on casting them, when I could be using said energy to continue spamming my #1 for longer. So an idea like yours would still be pretty cool.

So overall, I really like your post. Some more love shown for Atlas would be awesome, and if he was souped up then maybe less people would look at me weird for playing him so much, lol. So long as his abilities keep the whole rocky-tank-guy theme, I think a lot of these changes would be very welcome.

[(PSN)Amu_Lambo_Ginga]

This is one detailed post, good job

[DarkRuler2500]

I like Atlas. However because his skillset is very very tiresome to play, I've put him aside.
Your ability set sounds so fun and promising, Atlas would certainly get a fix loadout slot then!

[MuscleBeach]

Thank you for the positive reviews everyone! 

16 minutes ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

I like Atlas. However because his skillset is very very tiresome to play, I've put him aside.
Your ability set sounds so fun and promising, Atlas would certainly get a fix loadout slot then!

I agree, I actually dislike Nidus because he's too spammy of the same ability. The only reason Atlas isn't also boring to me... punching things is fun! But that's literally all he has. With the reworks I suggested he has a summoner thing going too as well as a CC based frame if you build him that way. 

 

25 minutes ago, Ninjamurai said:

His #1 Punch is awesome & fun, but a little dinky at the highest levels.

Actually, I have a different experience with it. I 1 punch every basic unit even on sortie 3. I'm also running max power strength and efficiency with a stretch to have some range. My Rumblers last about 6 seconds and with a 2.5 second cast time, half of that is them being birthed. But that right there is the issue. All we have to talk about is his punch and so naturally, I built for it and survivability (what little of it I could get). 

35 minutes ago, Ninjamurai said:

His #3 is something I've only found 1 use for, & that was freezing speedy kavats in place so I could scan them for genetic code

I have 2 uses for it. 

1) Slap it down my wall which is about as wide as my shoulders and hope to god the enemies don't step 2 feet to either side. If I'm lucky, they revive right before I go down and use real abilities to revive me and keep themselves safe.

2) Drop it in front of a hack console and hope the console is in a corner for less openings.

3) Surprise bonus round #3, I pretend to be useful as I drop it in front of a defense target.  Augment would make this more useful but the augment should just be the normal ability and a gimmick should be the augment. But that is just a band-aid fix. Still a bad kit. 

[----Legacy----]

Imo, Rumbled should be the augment for rumblers instead of titanic rumbler or any other thing. 

Pros: 

-Atlas becomes a real titan with this mod

-It's already in game

Cons:

-Should need to get some escalation (it's HP already scales with power strenght), mostly with Atlas's modded stats such as HP/Armor and pwr strenght made to increase damage dealt by it's attacks

-Loss of mobility while active (which shouldn't be a big issue on certain missions, it would be made mostly to increase survability, draw agro, tank AND kill, not to run during the whole mission)

[Ninjamurai]

20 minutes ago, MuscleBeach said:

snip

Edit, I just checked, I think I was right actually. By #3 I meant paralyze, not walls, but yeah. I also feebly attempt to wall when reviving. But yeah, we're in the same boat. And as for dinky punches at highest levels, I think for me it's mainly just Eximus units that annoyingly survive punches, which can sometimes be *extremely* common on sorties. But yeah, normal units never pose too much of a threat, & yeah, his punch is his only real focus (Kind of like Nidus' #1 as well).

 

Edited October 26, 2017 by Ninjamurai

[Kainosh]

I think only Tectonics need a change.    Small immobile wall is pointless for melee frame. Boulder that is much weaker than his 1st also doesn't help much.

Here (copied from my post in another thread) :

 Atlas creates a stone sphere above himself that has immense gravity force (channeled ability).   It pulls petrified enemies, increasing in size and gaining gravity force with every statue consumed (all enemies remain petrified while in the sphere).

While active it draws enemy fire (reduces incoming damage). More statues stacked = stronger gravity = less bullets hit Atlas who carries that sphere.   But it also reduces movement speed when it grows bigger.

If you press ability button again or run out of energy, Atlas will throw that sphere. It will explode and deal massive damage, releasing all enemies that were inside... if they are still alive.

Basically : create small planet using petrified enemies, carry it to draw enemy fire from yourself and nearby allies...or throw it to nuke groups of enemies.

 

That would fit his theme perfectly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MuscleBeach]

1 minute ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Imo, Rumbled should be the augment for rumblers instead of titanic rumbler or any other thing. 

Pros: 

-Atlas becomes a real titan with this mod

-It's already in game

Cons:

-Should need to get some escalation (it's HP already scales with power strenght), mostly with Atlas's modded stats such as HP/Armor and pwr strenght made to increase damage dealt by it's attacks

-Loss of mobility while active (which shouldn't be a big issue on certain missions, it would be made mostly to increase survability, draw agro, tank AND kill, not to run during the whole mission)

I agree 100%. It looks like they had an answer to his biggest problems in a pvp only mod (lol). Didn't know that existed! I do think a rework is still in order but allowing your suggestion would be a quick and easy way to fix him for the time being. I think the biggest flaw with my suggestions, they're too elaborate. Most abilities are  much simpler and 1 dimensional in what they do. The most likely fix in my eyes is your post.

[MuscleBeach]

18 minutes ago, Kainosh said:

I think only Tectonics need a change.    Small immobile wall is pointless for melee frame. Boulder that is much weaker than his 1st also doesn't help much.

Here (copied from my post in another thread) :

 Atlas creates a stone sphere above himself that has immense gravity force (channeled ability).   It pulls petrified enemies, increasing in size and gaining gravity force with every statue consumed (all enemies remain petrified while in the sphere).

While active it draws enemy fire (reduces incoming damage). More statues stacked = stronger gravity = less bullets hit Atlas who carries that sphere.   But it also reduces movement speed when it grows bigger.

If you press ability button again or run out of energy, Atlas will throw that sphere. It will explode and deal massive damage, releasing all enemies that were inside... if they are still alive.

Basically : create small planet using petrified enemies, carry it to draw enemy fire from yourself and nearby allies...or throw it to nuke groups of enemies.

 

That would fit his theme perfectly.

I do like this idea, except for 2 things:

1) It's a straight rip of Nagato's ability from Naruto, Catastrophic Planetary Devastation (could they have tried any harder to make this sound more epic? hahaha!)  http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Chibaku_Tensei

2) It takes too long to set up. First you have to go into petrify, Stone everything, which takes time if you're not high power str. If you are high str, they are stoned for only a few seconds. Then you have to start channeling this ability (knowing DE it would have a large cast time for something so epic). 

 

Even so, this ability would still be an improvement on Atlas. I just think there's a better fit. It would definitely be a cool ability but I'm pretty sure they won't do this simply because they won't want to copy something so similarly from somewhere else. If you look at their Tennogen requirements, you'll see this clearly. And it's too extravagant of an ability, something I think some of my suggestions are a victim of too. 

Edited October 26, 2017 by MuscleBeach
I used number that are probably inaccurate. Editted out

[Kainosh]

4 hours ago, MuscleBeach said:

I do like this idea, except for 2 things:

1) It's a straight rip of Nagato's ability from Naruto, Catastrophic Planetary Devastation (could they have tried any harder to make this sound more epic? hahaha!)  http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Chibaku_Tensei

2) It takes too long to set up. First you have to go into petrify, Stone everything, which takes time if you're not high power str. If you are high str, they are stoned for only a few seconds. Then you have to start channeling this ability (knowing DE it would have a large cast time for something so epic). 

 

Even so, this ability would still be an improvement on Atlas. I just think there's a better fit. It would definitely be a cool ability but I'm pretty sure they won't do this simply because they won't want to copy something so similarly from somewhere else. If you look at their Tennogen requirements, you'll see this clearly. And it's too extravagant of an ability, something I think some of my suggestions are a victim of too. 

1) Not even close... Only similarity is that it also has gravity (and what i suggested is pseudo gravity that only attracts bullets and statues).  That Nagato's sphere is airborne and stationary...it seems.

  What i suggested is a freaking "boulder" that Atlas carries on his back. 

You draw analogy with Naruto, while I draw analogy with Atlas' mythology.  

2) There is no need to have statues around. You can simply activate it to make basic stone sphere.  Statues only buff it, providing synergy.

There is nothing "epic" about it.  It just summons a medium sized boulder that Atlas puts on his back.  If there were statues near, they get "consumed" by that boulder and it gets  slightly bigger. 

[EchoesOfRain]

Man, I love seeing people giving Atlas love. If only DE could do the same. This is a nice rework that would be a ton of fun to play. Atlas only has 1 real skill, Landslide, while Tectonics and Rumblers are a bit of "Cast and forget" skills. Petrify is just a "forget" skill, not even worth casting. Letting his kit feel much more active would be amazing, especially since he's the Brawler frame

[MuscleBeach]

1 hour ago, Kainosh said:

You draw analogy with Naruto, while I draw analogy with Atlas' mythology.

My bad. I even thought of Atlas holding the world on his shoulders earlier, before my original post, but completely whiffed it on your reference. I still think they're strikingly similar as the only difference is size and obviously you won't be sucking in the walls. BUT big balls sucking things in isn't exactly an outlandish idea, which makes it ok in my eyes to use. If Excalibur summoning a lightsabre and shooting sonic booms (I can reference things all day and I should probably stop that) then I think this is more ok of an ability that I originally thought it'd be. And referencing Atlas Myth is something I think DE would like doing.

 

Have you had any thought on the numbers for it? It's a good replacement for tectonics as well. And it'd work with an Augment mod that turns sucked in people into golem(s) to keep that theme going if desired. Man, I love seeing people giving Atlas love.

 

17 minutes ago, EchoesOfRain said:

Man, I love seeing people giving Atlas love. If only DE could do the same.

If we can show enough love, I think they will :) I recently asked a friend what's going on with damage 3.0 as I was out of the loop for a long while. He said the devs ask what we want and no one speaks up on what we want changed. So that's going to be my next big thread I do. I expect a lot of backlash on that one..

[DeltaPangaea]

Man, I keep seeing a lot of Atlas Rework threads. Let's see if I can keep my thoughts short this time. PROBABLY NOT.

Landslide Good. Rumblers Good.

Change Petrify to a single conical flash. One flash petrifies small dudes, heavies take two.

Tectonics gains a Button Hold ability. Upon holding the button, rather than putting up the rock as a wall, he hurls it as a boulder which explodes on contact. He will also pick up and hurl a previously placed wall instead of using energy if he's standing next to it. This replaces the rolling boulder thing we got currently.

An Augment for Tectonics which replaces the wall with Rock Armor for Atlas.

I love my boy Atlas, and I love calling in THE LADS. Petrify just takes too long and doesn't feel fun to use. Tectonics is dull, uninteresting, too small to block things off properly, and useless if you're actually moving anywhere.

Eh, comparatively short, I guess.

[MuscleBeach]

4 hours ago, DeltaPangaea said:

Man, I keep seeing a lot of Atlas Rework threads. Let's see if I can keep my thoughts short this time. PROBABLY NOT.

Landslide Good. Rumblers Good.

Change Petrify to a single conical flash. One flash petrifies small dudes, heavies take two.

Tectonics gains a Button Hold ability. Upon holding the button, rather than putting up the rock as a wall, he hurls it as a boulder which explodes on contact. He will also pick up and hurl a previously placed wall instead of using energy if he's standing next to it. This replaces the rolling boulder thing we got currently.

An Augment for Tectonics which replaces the wall with Rock Armor for Atlas.

I love my boy Atlas, and I love calling in THE LADS. Petrify just takes too long and doesn't feel fun to use. Tectonics is dull, uninteresting, too small to block things off properly, and useless if you're actually moving anywhere.

Eh, comparatively short, I guess.

I don't think Rumblers are ok how they are. But other than that, those changes would work (though he deserves so much more than those changes would give him). Tectonic Augment would have to be better than Steel Fiber to fix his survivability issue (his biggest issue to me). 

[DeltaPangaea]

3 hours ago, MuscleBeach said:

I don't think Rumblers are ok how they are. But other than that, those changes would work (though he deserves so much more than those changes would give him). Tectonic Augment would have to be better than Steel Fiber to fix his survivability issue (his biggest issue to me). 

I think the Rumblers are fine as is, outside of them running into nullifier bubbles and instantly killing themselves. And them not doing their explosion when the duration expires.

[FreeWilliam]

On 10/26/2017 at 1:02 PM, MuscleBeach said:

Let us punch rag dolled enemies or change rag doll to knockdown (even though that's way less cool it'll at least be more functional).

You know...there might be something kind of awesome if we combined Atlas' 1 and 3 (Yes, I'm going to save petrify and make it cool all at once!)

What if when we activated Atlas' 1 he'd charge forward as normal (and even if there's nobody there he'd charge, so an Atlas/Rhino hybrid because that makes more sense)...THEN he'd punch and generate a petrify cone in front of him.  

When he finally reaches an enemy, then until the enemy is petrified then rocks flow OFF of Atlas (It still should be punch-y!  Atlas is NOT Professor X!) and each punch deals damage normally while slowing and petrifying the enemy.  Once the enemy's hit points reach 0% Then Atlas throws in a epic Falcon punch and the newly petrified enemy explodes in an AOE of shards of rock, damaging enemies in an area scaling based upon the amount of damage Atlas did to that target before it exploded. 

Why this would be so much fun!

Instead of hitting 1 over and over while running towards enemies and hearing 'bzz bzz bzz zoompow!' hitting 1 actually charges in the direction of an enemy and actually does something.

Then, instead of getting in three punches before having to figure out where the bad guy went (and occasionally ragdolling it somewhere crazy) he'd get to punchpunchpunchpunch while the enemy goes from meaty thwack to rocky slam then POW!

If it was a little trash mob, Then you get a punch or two in and the same kind of AOE we get, but with a little delay.

If it's a beast, then we have to keep punching until it finally explodes in a HUGE explosion.  And then when the smoke clears, we can charge after whoever's still moving or start using some other powers.

I think that sounds a lot more viscerally fun and more atlas-like and removes the awkward elements.  Plenty of ways to control and scale the abilities and we get to have some stand-up punching sessions that feel very Atlas-like at very appropriate times...and I think that would flow pretty organically too, wouldn't it?

[MuscleBeach]

4 minutes ago, FreeWilliam said:

You know...there might be something kind of awesome if we combined Atlas' 1 and 3 (Yes, I'm going to save petrify and make it cool all at once!)

What if when we activated Atlas' 1 he'd charge forward as normal (and even if there's nobody there he'd charge, so an Atlas/Rhino hybrid because that makes more sense)...THEN he'd punch and generate a petrify cone in front of him.  

When he finally reaches an enemy, then until the enemy is petrified then rocks flow OFF of Atlas (It still should be punch-y!  Atlas is NOT Professor X!) and each punch deals damage normally while slowing and petrifying the enemy.  Once the enemy's hit points reach 0% Then Atlas throws in a epic Falcon punch and the newly petrified enemy explodes in an AOE of shards of rock, damaging enemies in an area scaling based upon the amount of damage Atlas did to that target before it exploded. 

Why this would be so much fun!

Instead of hitting 1 over and over while running towards enemies and hearing 'bzz bzz bzz zoompow!' hitting 1 actually charges in the direction of an enemy and actually does something.

Then, instead of getting in three punches before having to figure out where the bad guy went (and occasionally ragdolling it somewhere crazy) he'd get to punchpunchpunchpunch while the enemy goes from meaty thwack to rocky slam then POW!

If it was a little trash mob, Then you get a punch or two in and the same kind of AOE we get, but with a little delay.

If it's a beast, then we have to keep punching until it finally explodes in a HUGE explosion.  And then when the smoke clears, we can charge after whoever's still moving or start using some other powers.

I think that sounds a lot more viscerally fun and more atlas-like and removes the awkward elements.  Plenty of ways to control and scale the abilities and we get to have some stand-up punching sessions that feel very Atlas-like at very appropriate times...and I think that would flow pretty organically too, wouldn't it?

I'm not sure I followed all that but is this what you're saying? 

Landslide charges and punches, whether or not there is an enemy targeted.

Landslide will cast the Petrify cone with every punch. 

[Kainosh]

14 hours ago, MuscleBeach said:

Have you had any thought on the numbers for it?

Nah...im too lasy to math.

But I put a lil thought in it and made some tweaks.  

1) I decided that it should not be a channeled ability.  

2) Statues should be pulled once upon cast (like Nidus' Larva). 

3) It should have Health.  Consumed enemy statues should add their HP to Sphere's (similar to how enemy fire boosts Frost's snowglobe health)

4) Damage done to Atlas should be transferred to Sphere (because melee and aoes will still hit Atlas).

5) Sphere throw damage should be affected by its remaining Health.     Something like 500 base damage + 100% of remaining HP.

6) Its "bullet attractor" or "gravity" should not be huge...something around 4-6 m radius. It also should aggro enemies.

 

Half of its stats can pretty much be copy pasted from Bulwark (base health and energy cost). Rest requres testing and such.

[FreeWilliam]

1 hour ago, MuscleBeach said:

I'm not sure I followed all that but is this what you're saying? 

Landslide charges and punches, whether or not there is an enemy targeted.

Landslide will cast the Petrify cone with every punch. 

I think you followed it just fine!  

I was thinking the visuals would be shifted, and the the gradual 'petrify' effect would only complete on the main target when it would have been defeated due to damage, but in general that's basically what I was thinking!

The big changes would then be

1) When you hit the 1 key, something would always happen (Rather than the current state where either nothing happens or you charge forward based upon a few inches difference...that's kind of annoying

2) The 'turning things into statues' concept is in front of atlas instead of behind him with the mod (heh) 

3) Atlas wouldn't get killed because he ragdolled an enemy into safety

4) The 'AOE' pulse only happens when an enemy dies rather than on every hit, but the pulse is bigger depending on how much it's charged.

I think it would also make him feel more mobile and less 'jittery' when playing while doing something similar on the battlefield, but in a way that's less annoying for the Atlas player.

Edited October 27, 2017 by FreeWilliam

[(XBOX)Nex the Slayer]

I like the concept, but a few issues here and there:

The proposed change to the petrify ability is broken. Too broken. Again, I like the concept, but petrifying EVERY enemy around you would be ridiculous.

 

- I say 3-5 enemies get petrified based on who is closest, out to a certain range, similar to Nekros' Terrify. The duration should also be shorter since it is a channeled ability, around 5 seconds.

- Power strength affects the number of enemies petrified, Duration affects amount of time petrified, Range affects how far out enemies can be affected. If you want the stats you listed here, mod for it.

- There needs to be a cap on mini-rumblers. Nekros has a hard cap of 7. I'd say hard cap of 5 for Atlas, including the ones from Tectonics. For example, if a Tectonics-rumbler is up, only 4 mini-Rumblers can be spawned.

 

Also, a change to the new Rumblers ability.

 

- In keeping with the 5 Rumbler max, a mini-Rumbler spawns every time 20% of your ability's armor is stripped within 1 second.

- If the current amount of Rumblers on the map is already 5, the ability triggers a wave of impact damage that ragdolls enemies within 6 meters away from you.

- The augment seems ok. Perhaps give it synergy with the Tectonics by making larger Rumblers restore 8-10% armor. New Rumbler ability should not be allowed to recast, only run out naturally to keep people from spamming it.

 

Otherwise, I love the creativity! I'm all for this, DE!

Edited October 27, 2017 by (XB1)Nex the Slayer
Spell check

[MuscleBeach]

1 hour ago, Kainosh said:

Nah...im too lasy to math.

But I put a lil thought in it and made some tweaks.  

1) I decided that it should not be a channeled ability.  

2) Statues should be pulled once upon cast (like Nidus' Larva). 

3) It should have Health.  Consumed enemy statues should add their HP to Sphere's (similar to how enemy fire boosts Frost's snowglobe health)

4) Damage done to Atlas should be transferred to Sphere (because melee and aoes will still hit Atlas).

5) Sphere throw damage should be affected by its remaining Health.     Something like 500 base damage + 100% of remaining HP.

6) Its "bullet attractor" or "gravity" should not be huge...something around 4-6 m radius. It also should aggro enemies.

 

Half of its stats can pretty much be copy pasted from Bulwark (base health and energy cost). Rest requres testing and such.

I like these changes. Sometime today or this weekend I'mm going to add these suggestions to my OP. I would like this thread to lead to a result, even if it won't be happening for a long time (Atlas is the 7th frame in line for priming, assuming they intend to prime him and they follow the release order). 

1 hour ago, FreeWilliam said:

I think you followed it just fine!  

I was thinking the visuals would be shifted, and the the gradual 'petrify' effect would only complete on the main target when it would have been defeated due to damage, but in general that's basically what I was thinking!

The big changes would then be

1) When you hit the 1 key, something would always happen (Rather than the current state where either nothing happens or you charge forward based upon a few inches difference...that's kind of annoying

2) The 'turning things into statues' concept is in front of atlas instead of behind him with the mod (heh) 

3) Atlas wouldn't get killed because he ragdolled an enemy into safety

4) The 'AOE' pulse only happens when an enemy dies rather than on every hit, but the pulse is bigger depending on how much it's charged.

I think it would also make him feel more mobile and less 'jittery' when playing while doing something similar on the battlefield, but in a way that's less annoying for the Atlas player.

Needs a little more fleshing out, which i will help with later but I will be adding this to my OP too as it's also a good suggestion. 

[MuscleBeach]

I appreciate the time you took to critique my ideas! :)

19 hours ago, (Xbox One)Nex the Slayer said:

The proposed change to the petrify ability is broken. Too broken. Again a like the concept, but petrifying EVERY enemy around you would be ridiculous.

You're right, it's too strong as is. It's the ability I was most worried about as being broken. Listing in the below spoiler the mechanics of turning people into stone. I'm not proposing any of it be changed at all. Taken from the Petrify Ability section in the wiki. Bolded important things for easier reading and removed things that don't work with my changes:

Spoiler

Stone rate is affected by Ability Strength and cannot exceed 1 under any circumstances.

The relationship between stone rate and the minimum time required to petrify an enemy is nonlinear.

Enemies are petrified at a faster rate the higher the stone rate value and the closer they are to Atlas.

Elite units (e.g., Elite Crewmen, Elite Lancers) require a minimum stone rate to be petrified. Heavy units (e.g., Heavy Gunners, Ancient Healers, Techs) require an even higher minimum.

If Petrify's stone rate is lower than the required minimum, these units will only be staggered. Once these units recover, they will ignore Petrify's effects while the ability remains active.

If Petrify's stone rate is higher than the required minimum, these units will be petrified at a reduced rate compared to other units. Heavy units will take more time to be petrified than elite units.

Petrify will not solidify enemies behind obstacles in the environment unless Atlas has line of sight.

Petrified enemies are completely immune to status effects. Any duration-based status effect, such as a Bleed proc, that is applied before an enemy is petrified will be interrupted until Petrify wears off.

If enemies are unaware once hit by Petrify, they will retain their unaware status upon being petrified.

Bosses and Capture targets cannot be petrified.

Enemies will slowly turn a darker tone and obtain a stone texture when being petrified, and enemies that have already succumbed to the ability but not yet solid can be turned to stone faster if the effect still lingers on the enemy. [citation needed]

Using Petrify on an enemy that is currently solidified will not refresh the stone duration. Once the enemy breaks free, it can be petrified once again.

I'll propose new numbers without changing the mechanics inside this spoiler. Please let me know what you think:

Spoiler

Adjusting based on your feedback:

Petrify Strength: Stays just as strong as the current Petrify we have. I don't dare touch this complicated part of the mechanic. With other useful abilities, you won't be trying to maximize this anymore, which makes Landslide weaker.

Petrify on death trigger range: reduced from 10m to 5m. This results in enemies having to die very close to you to trigger the Petrify at all. Still can't be affected by mods.

Petrify Range: Reduced from 20m to 8m (I think this is the broken part). Affected by mods. (20m at maximized range, 40% Strength).

Petrify Duration: Keeping at 10 seconds. Petrify currently does 20 seconds base so i think this is more than short enough, especially since you need strength to petrify things quickly and range to reach far enough to matter. (25.9 Seconds maximized duration, 46% Range (<4m))

Energy Cost: Changing from 10 energy per trigger to 7 energy per enemy not already stoned. Refund of 50% of energy spent per target hit that is immune to full stoning (some enemies can't be stoned but can be slowed by petrify). Energy cost affected by mods. (Maximized 75% cap=1.75 energy per enemy in range that's not fully stoned already, 40% Duration (4s) or maximize while sacrificing as little duration as possible, 70% 2.1 energy per enemy, 50% duration (5s))

Conclusion:

Strength works as it does currently. You need strength to turn people into stone quickly.

Death Trigger range makes CC only trigger able when you kill in melee range. 

Petrify Range: Reduced to close range, roughly sliding distance I believe, maybe even less. Further enemies will not be hit without modding. 

Petrify duration: Lasts half the time of current petrify and about as long as most CC skills.

Energy Cost: I think this is pretty energy intensive even before this change. This change may actually be too much energy to be useful without sacrificing everything else.I'll play around with specific numbers later and update.

 

19 hours ago, (Xbox One)Nex the Slayer said:

- I say 3-5 enemies get petrified based on who is closest, out to a certain range, similar to Nekros' Terrify. The duration should also be shorter since it is a channeled ability, around 5 seconds.

- Power strength affects the number of enemies petrified, Duration affects amount of time petrified, Range affects how far out enemies can be affected. If you want the stats you listed here, mod for it.

Your changes would work too but keep in mind Nekros Petrify does more than just CC. Also, this isn't a channeled ability I'm suggesting. It's a toggle like his desecrate. You turn it on and it sucks up resource when a certain trigger occurs to do its thing. Unless you were suggesting to make it a channel? 

19 hours ago, (Xbox One)Nex the Slayer said:

- There needs to be a cap on mini-rumblers. Nekros has a hard cap of 7. I'd say hard cap of 5 for Atlas, including the ones from Tectonics. For example, if a Tectonics-rumbler is up, only 4 mini-Rumblers can be spawned.

I disagree on the need for a cap. While you're right about Nekros cap... kind of. If he makes a Shadow of something that summons, like the kubrow masters or whatever they're called, you can go into the mid teens and they count towards his damage reduction augment based on # of summons. I've done it plenty of times. Also, none of my abilities allow spam summoning of Rumblers. Tectonics is still 1 wall that can be transformed into a Rumbler at a time. I guess I should make that more clear. 

My new 4 ability can't be recast until it expires. But I did forget to put a timer on the lesser golems that drop out of it. It would be something like 8 seconds, affected by mods. But they need to be a bit aggressive on a short timer. 

With that said, I don't think people will be able to force out more than 5 Rumblers anyways so a cap is fine (except with the Petrify Augment I suggested which would work too well with your new Rumbler suggestion. I would prefer changing my augment mod in this case).

 

Once again, thank you for your feedback :) 

Edited October 28, 2017 by MuscleBeach
Forgot to give thanks!

[thunder-fart]

Quote

Lanslide:

Most fun skill in the game! And possibly the best 1 ability? Not that being the 1 ability means much. 

 

Issues:

• If I stop punching I die. If enemies are too spread out for me to punch in immediate succession, I stop punching and die. This is at Sortie 3 lvls, which is my standard for what coherent builds should be able to handle. This is with Vitality + Redirection + 45% armor and a carrier with medi-ray, shield ability thingy, and shield recharge. Nearly every mod I can put for survivability. 
• Landslide Augment is useless. If I'm punching things, there's no one behind me. 
• I've died so many times from my 3rd hit rag dolling an enemy who I can't then punch again. I'm not even sure if this was intended or a bug. But like I said before, if I stop punching I die. 

Solutions: 

• Let us punch rag dolled enemies or change rag doll to knockdown (even though that's way less cool it'll at least be more functional).
• Replacing the current Augment Mod with the one I put in spoiler will help solve the squishy issue. I think a damage shield would be better but I wasn't sure if it would be too good so I went with the safe side and chose boosting armor instead. 

 

If build and played correctly, Atlas shouldn't die that easy. Crucial is a good Lifestrike weapon with strong slide attack for fast health recovery (All tonfas, Venka Prime with Four Riders stance). Of course his playstyle still remains risky, but that is what i enjoy about him. Zenturik is of course must have. Here my standard build:

http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Atlas/t_30_3420000020_2-5-10-3-8-5-6-6-5-19-7-10-55-0-5-57-1-5-59-3-3-411-2-10-615-9-5-648-4-3_55-6-57-8-411-8-59-9-648-9-2-12-6-11-19-14-3-18-615-9_0/en/1-0-39

With that low duration Petrify and Rumblers are useless but they aren't that good to begin with so who cares. Tectonic Fracture because it makes his 2 actually useful. Other than that, Tectonics with the augment can be cast in a triangle around you in an emergency situation, so that you can choose the next target to lifestrike/Landslide.

Your idea of be able to  punch ragdolled enemies sound really cool. Your Landslide augment also is not bad, but i would prefer my suggestion.

Here some of my suggestions for changes

Landslide:

-doesn't provide health immunity while casting anymore (because it is abusable)
-now does provide cc immunity while casting
-now multiplies atlas Base Armor by 250%/500% via landslide combo counter
-melee combo counter affects total armor

Also his base armor is increased to lets say 800. With this change it should balance out a bit the extreme contrast beetween his "During-Landslide" and "Not-Landslide" mode, even if he is still the most tanky while using Landslide. Now he doesn't need Steelfiber anymore for surviving and can replace it with Primed Continuity (in my build).

 

On 26.10.2017 at 8:02 PM, MuscleBeach said:

Tectonics:

Issues: 

• Doesn't cover much area.
• Requires Augment to fix the above issue. Doesn't actually fix the above issue.
• Augment removes the Rolling part of the wall.
• Rolling part of the wall deals like no damage even with max power strength and its CC capabilities are laughable.
• Trolls will try to push you off of the extraction platforms in space with the wall rolling ability. Some days, this is not an issue :P

Solutions:

• Reduce cost of Tectonics to 25. You can only have 1 anyways (unless you use augment) and it's nothing special. 
• Let us interact with our wall by punching it. We punch it and pieces fly out of it In the direction we punched it, dealing damage but also breaking chunks (health) out of our wall. This would be direct punches at it, not the landslide AOE. For simplicity, it can be an AOE effect but a conal effect would represent what's happening the best. 

  Hide contents

Add to the ability: Using Landslide on Tectonics will send Shrapnel outward, killing your foes. 10% of walls max health per punch. Distributes that 10% damage among 9 Pellets, each dealing 60% impact, 30% puncture, 10% slash damage. 10% status chance not affected by mods. 5% Crit chance not affected by mods. Cone is 45 degrees and 10m long. The range of the cone is affected by Range mods for distance, not radius. Does not go through obstacles.

 

• Change the roll ability into a Transform wall into golem ability. Make them as small as the smaller sized golems we can currently make for less screen clutter. 
• Give these the same stats as our current golems. They're not as powerful as they appear on paper. They are too slow and don't aoe to make up for it, I believe (except on death). More on this in the Rumblers ability section.
• With this change the Augment can stay as is, though it's still not worth the warframe mod slot. 
• Alternatively, you can make the current augment the new normal and make the augment do the golem parts I've suggested.

 

I like the idea to reduce the cost to 25 and the "rock shotgun" Part which has been suggested quite alot on the forum( even if now it would be too similar to what Gara can do).

The roll part is indeed pretty useless, but i don't like to replace it with a golem. I would rather make the boulder part useful. My suggestion:

Tectonics:

Cost reduced to 25

Atlas can now pick up his wall and move around, is unable to use parkour or attacking but can still perform a jump and sprint. The camera is zoomed out a bit ( for better vision) and Atlas can aim the wall only 90° upwards ( if aimed downwards the wall will stay on the ground like currently). Now his walls also block AOE damage like Bombards.

If Tectonic is actvated again while holding a wall, Atlas throws( in a parabolic trajectory) or rolls it ( like now) depending of where he aims. If thrown it imediatly explodes on contact dealing punture damage to all enemies in a small AoE. If rolled it does the same thing like now. Costs 25 Energy

The damage has to be increased though. Higher base damage and scaling based on melee mods and melee combo counter OR damage based on the wall remaining health ( like Rhinos iron shrapnell augment) so that Atlas could then do his Landslide combo for increased Armor and then immediatlely cast tectonics for extra health bonus. Also the throw Range has to be quite significant since the exploding Range should not be too big

Tectonic Fracture Augment:

Atlas can now place up to 4/5 Walls and can still use the boulder.

 

On his other abilities im still not sure, i only like the idea of petrify being able to heal your walls

Edited October 28, 2017 by thunder-fart