(PSN)Croewe Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) So after the release of Poe on console I assume we will be getting the long awaited rework got zephyr so I'll dump my ideas here along to compete with the hundred other (better?) Threads made before mine. Passive : after bullet jumping straight up zephyr will stop as she reaches the apex of her jump she will be able to walk on a pocket of air where she can end her jump early by looking down bullet jump again or walk on air for 5 seconds with 50% increased base movement speed. This passive allows a unique way of traversing the air while not stepping on titania's toes. First Ability: Zephyr Sends out a gust of air around herself knocking down enemies within 3 meters and lifting herself in the air if she's on the ground. This will not trigger her passive. If you use this in her passive you will immediately be taken to the ground. Augment : When using this you now have your passive active and the air pocket lasts an extra 5 seconds. This is very similar to her current ability except with the fact that her passive won't be triggered with this and it gives her a good escape if melees get close. Second ability : Creates a fog wall in a 5 meter radius that decreases the accuracy of enemies that fire inside it by 20% and increases ally base movement speed and bullet jump by 10% for 20 seconds. Also gives players inside knockdown immunity. Augment: The fog wall travels with zephyr at half of its original size. This is the only true new ability and after racking my brain for a few hours this is the most fitting ability I thought of adding both team utility and sticking to get theme. Third Ability : No changes Augment : No changes. Her only perfect ability. Fourth Ability : Tornadoes now do not affect loot and don't throw enemies off once they reach the top. Enemies circle the tornado slower and the tornadoes now slowly move after the nearest enemy. Bullets shot into the tornado will damage all enemies caught within it as well as affecting the elemental effect it has. Augment : No longer throws enemies adds 8 tornadoes at half size that absorb ENEMY (no longer absorbs friendly bullets) bullets and are bounced between tornadoes 5 times dealing twice as much damage after every bounce. If you hit the tornadoes directly they will still absorb the elemental effects of what was fired into them. This gives the Tornadoes far more consistency as well as allowing them to do more damage and not screwing with loot. I @(*()$ hate my loot being thrown around. Edited for clarity and slight tweaks. Edited October 30, 2017 by (PS4)Chris_Robet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entharias Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 I belive they said they won't change/replace abilities, but simply make adjustments, so, rip your concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoomyGordo Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 no to the passive. you leave her antigravity alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krc473 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 The implementation of this concept would make me less likely to play Zephyr. My opinions on the concept: Passive - ruined. While antigrav is less useful now than prior to bullet jumps and such, why get rid of it? 1st- Not changed really. You wont trigger the passive? What is the point in it then? You say to escape melee enemies. But, if I was concerned enough about this, I would not be using Zephyr regardless. 2nd- why do we even want this? 3rd- I like it. 4th- You have taken the fun out of it. As for the augment, how do you plan to account for the fact that bullets effect the element on the tornadoes? You have not specified that this would be removed. Just that the augment will make bullets not affect the tornadoes. So, worse than current form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Croewe Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) 42 minutes ago, krc473 said: The implementation of this concept would make me less likely to play Zephyr. My opinions on the concept: Passive - ruined. While antigrav is less useful now than prior to bullet jumps and such, why get rid of it? 1st- Not changed really. You wont trigger the passive? What is the point in it then? You say to escape melee enemies. But, if I was concerned enough about this, I would not be using Zephyr regardless. 2nd- why do we even want this? 3rd- I like it. 4th- You have taken the fun out of it. As for the augment, how do you plan to account for the fact that bullets effect the element on the tornadoes? You have not specified that this would be removed. Just that the augment will make bullets not affect the tornadoes. So, worse than current form. Let me preface this reply with the fact that I'm going off my opinions with my rework so they may not align with yours please keep that in mind. Her passive currently feels a little to floaty and slow to me which doesn't fit with Warframe very fast paced gameplay. While the passive I offered gives a feel of being an aerial support frame that needs to stay mobile to keep away from enemies. The point of this is to very quickly boost yourself around faster than bullet jump without fear of being stuck in the air because of the passive and the knockdown is a more a bonus effect to provide incentive to stay in the air. Overall the current skill has potential but is beat out by bullet jumps. Zephyr outside the augment does not provide much utility for the team so this is an ability where you can pop it to give you and your teammates a small amount of survivability. And it fits with the air theme. It seems everyone likes her third ability :) While the Tornadoes can be fun they are basically useless atm this provides reliable cc and increased amounts of damage for her kit. As you pointed out I forgot the elemental effects of the tornado (this post came together across several hours of brainstorming so I left a few things out) thank you for reminding me to add it in, they do still retain the elemental retention of bullets. The reason the smaller tornadoes don't affect allies bullets is I imagine a bullet attractor type effect for the tornadoes and I don't want allies bullets to be absorbed as that can cause some salt. Edited October 30, 2017 by (PS4)Chris_Robet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)RenovaKunumaru Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 (edited) 45 minutes ago, (PS4)Chris_Robet said: passive currently feels a little to floaty and slow to me which doesn't fit with Warframe This tends to be the case with those who haven't taken the time to master her movement properties. She's not like every other frame, it takes a bit of effort to get used to her changed gravity but that doesn't discount her from being a part of the fast paced movement of Warframe. She's in fact one of the most mobile frames in the game. Edited October 30, 2017 by (PS4)RenovaKunumaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdframe_Prime Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Zephyr rework thread number 567, found a new idea, not too sure of it (running joke for people that know me, please ignore that.) So, you're one of us now! Fellow reworker, fellow Zephyr fan. Welcome, welcome. And let me apologise because @Nakrast is quite correct, DE have released a statement back around Tennocon time in an interview that simply says that no warframe is getting new abilities in their reworks, all reworks from Limbo onwards will be within the original abilities and concept of the frame (as we've already seen with Oberon and Hydroid, to greater effect with the former than the latter). This was particularly upsetting to me, because I updated and finished a rework thread only a few weeks before that statement, with the sum-total of fully concepted ideas taken by speaking with every active Zephyr fan and Zephyr hater I could find, based on ideas from every rework thread and idea I'd ever seen, all the debates, all the arguments and all the little niggles of interface and control-input variation between PC and Console and everything else I could think of. It incorporated all sorts of ideas, from giving Zephyr a new ability for crowd control and grouping, putting in an aiming reticule for Dive Bomb (now shifted to her 1st ability while Tailwind becomes incorporated into her passive) so that you could aim it up to a limited distance away, new scaling tricks, new ground-based functions and targeted casting in the air, an aggressive AI rework to Tornado... It was the most balanced Warframe concept I've ever come up with and would have been amazing to play... In case you're interested, it's over here... So, I abandoned all hope of that, and just re-updated an old thread that simply has all the best ideas I can find for fixing her abilities in the same way they fixed Oberon's abilities. That's here, take a look if you're interested: Anyway, so, shameless self-promotion aside. Your ideas. The passive idea is the one that was new, I genuinely haven't seen that one before. My question is 'why is that useful?' Because yes it's unique navigation, but in the vast majority of cases, a standing point that you can generate anywhere isn't actually all that useful. Without the evasion bonus of Aim Gliding, or a permanently active Turbulence cast, you're a sitting duck up there and the same mobility can be found in an extended Aim Glide, wall latch or similar, when you pair it with Tailwind for further in-air mobility. The first ability, not bad, not amazing either, a radial knockdown is great. Except Dive Bomb already does that (poorly, but check my rework thread, I fix that), so why are you trying to incorporate it into something else and remove the other ability? Sure, if your new ability was amazing, that would be a tactic for it, but you've already taken away both Tailwind's full point-and-click movement dashes, and her low gravity passive, so this really had better be amazing. Second ability... well, aside from the immunity to knockdown, what does this do that Turbulence doesn't do already and better? You have a long-lasting radial ability that provides immunity to hitscan and almost total immunity to projectiles (rocket and fire AoE splash will still hit you), it travels with you already and has an augment that will increase ally speed and even projectile speed (meaning it's amazing with bows and the Euphona). While this new ability grants an immobile field of accuracy debuff... which is pointless because enemy accuracy scales with their damage until a 20% debuff, even flat, will still mean that 4/5 things hit you. And if you're looking for Tornado consistency, yeah I'd definitely take a look at my threads there, what I put in there is the result of about five months of people giving me ideas on how to make the ability reliable. It's a culmination of months of debates, even with those that absolutely hate Tornado in its current form and want to see it completely removed. As it stands your own doesn't address some of the major issues with Tornado that others find frustrating, especially the non-Zephyr players out there. Interesting changes though, they aren't new, but they're interesting for how you've combined them. Damage absorb, enemy perma-lifting, maintaining the elemental damage change, and the augment causing enemies to bounce between the small funnels... not a bad combination. All in all, your rework would be in the 'needs improvement' area, if it were possible. (Thanks so much, DE...) But hey, come to the big thread, tell me what you think, what I've missed, there's ideas there to make her floaty passive less of a hindrance and everything ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Croewe Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said: This tends to be the case with those who haven't taken the time to master her movement properties. She's not like every other frame, it takes a bit of effort to get used to her changed gravity but that doesn't discount her from being a part of the fast paced movement of Warframe. She's in fact one of the most mobile frames in the game. I've spent quite a bit of time on her but as you said I've probably don't have the knack for moving. It just has always felt of for me personally. In any case that's all opinion based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)thefallenloser Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Thaylien said: Zephyr rework thread number 567, found a new idea, not too sure of it (running joke for people that know me, please ignore that.) You know, you've now inspired me to read nothing but new Mag rework threads until I die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdframe_Prime Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, (PS4)ArtPrince17 said: You know, you've now inspired me to read nothing but new Mag rework threads until I die. I knew I was inspirational! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkenai7 Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 2 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said: This tends to be the case with those who haven't taken the time to master her movement properties. She's not like every other frame, it takes a bit of effort to get used to her changed gravity but that doesn't discount her from being a part of the fast paced movement of Warframe. She's in fact one of the most mobile frames in the game. Absolutely this. Don't touch our Zeph passive or I will throw you out an airlock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Croewe Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 13 hours ago, Thaylien said: Zephyr rework thread number 567, found a new idea, not too sure of it (running joke for people that know me, please ignore that.) So, you're one of us now! Fellow reworker, fellow Zephyr fan. Welcome, welcome. Glad to be on the game show, let's hope I manage to win. 13 hours ago, Thaylien said: And let me apologise because @Nakrast is quite correct, DE have released a statement back around Tennocon time in an interview that simply says that no warframe is getting new abilities in their reworks, all reworks from Limbo onwards will be within the original abilities and concept of the frame (as we've already seen with Oberon and Hydroid, to greater effect with the former than the latter). This was particularly upsetting to me, because I updated and finished a rework thread only a few weeks before that statement, with the sum-total of fully concepted ideas taken by speaking with every active Zephyr fan and Zephyr hater I could find, based on ideas from every rework thread and idea I'd ever seen, all the debates, all the arguments and all the little niggles of interface and control-input variation between PC and Console and everything else I could think of. It incorporated all sorts of ideas, from giving Zephyr a new ability for crowd control and grouping, putting in an aiming reticule for Dive Bomb (now shifted to her 1st ability while Tailwind becomes incorporated into her passive) so that you could aim it up to a limited distance away, new scaling tricks, new ground-based functions and targeted casting in the air, an aggressive AI rework to Tornado... It was the most balanced Warframe concept I've ever come up with and would have been amazing to play... In case you're interested, it's over here... Well nevermind about winning the zephyr Rework game show. :( 13 hours ago, Thaylien said: So, I abandoned all hope of that, and just re-updated an old thread that simply has all the best ideas I can find for fixing her abilities in the same way they fixed Oberon's abilities. That's here, take a look if you're interested: Anyway, so, shameless self-promotion aside. It's an interesting thread that definitely had far more research than my thread. 13 hours ago, Thaylien said: Your ideas. The passive idea is the one that was new, I genuinely haven't seen that one before. My question is 'why is that useful?' Because yes it's unique navigation, but in the vast majority of cases, a standing point that you can generate anywhere isn't actually all that useful. Without the evasion bonus of Aim Gliding, or a permanently active Turbulence cast, you're a sitting duck up there and the same mobility can be found in an extended Aim Glide, wall latch or similar, when you pair it with Tailwind for further in-air mobility. Maybe I didn't do the best job of explaining my idea (everything I think gets jumbled up in my head and spat out on paper) I wanted zephyr to be able to run around in the air as if she were on the ground and with higher movement speed she can strafe and safely fire at enemies while running on air. 13 hours ago, Thaylien said: The first ability, not bad, not amazing either, a radial knockdown is great. Except Dive Bomb already does that (poorly, but check my rework thread, I fix that), so why are you trying to incorporate it into something else and remove the other ability? Sure, if your new ability was amazing, that would be a tactic for it, but you've already taken away both Tailwind's full point-and-click movement dashes, and her low gravity passive, so this really had better be amazing. In my eyes the antigravity had to go (although most zephyr players like it so I'm the odd one out here) and the tailwind still has the dashes (again things get mixed up when transferring to my head to paper) and the knockdown isn't the focus it's just incentive to get away. 13 hours ago, Thaylien said: Second ability... well, aside from the immunity to knockdown, what does this do that Turbulence doesn't do already and better? You have a long-lasting radial ability that provides immunity to hitscan and almost total immunity to projectiles (rocket and fire AoE splash will still hit you), it travels with you already and has an augment that will increase ally speed and even projectile speed (meaning it's amazing with bows and the Euphona). While this new ability grants an immobile field of accuracy debuff... which is pointless because enemy accuracy scales with their damage until a 20% debuff, even flat, will still mean that 4/5 things hit you. Maybe the amount I proposed was a bit too little. The idea of this was to add a team support ability that can also be useful when you need to refresh your third ability. 13 hours ago, Thaylien said: And if you're looking for Tornado consistency, yeah I'd definitely take a look at my threads there, what I put in there is the result of about five months of people giving me ideas on how to make the ability reliable. It's a culmination of months of debates, even with those that absolutely hate Tornado in its current form and want to see it completely removed. As it stands your own doesn't address some of the major issues with Tornado that others find frustrating, especially the non-Zephyr players out there. Interesting changes though, they aren't new, but they're interesting for how you've combined them. Damage absorb, enemy perma-lifting, maintaining the elemental damage change, and the augment causing enemies to bounce between the small funnels... not a bad combination. In my eyes it fixed alot of what's wrong with them. Again I didn't do as much research as you did but these tornadoes fit my ideal zephyr. 13 hours ago, Thaylien said: All in all, your rework would be in the 'needs improvement' area, if it were possible. (Thanks so much, DE...) But hey, come to the big thread, tell me what you think, what I've missed, there's ideas there to make her floaty passive less of a hindrance and everything ^^ Thanks for coming in and sharing the flaws and annoyences that my thread contains I'll definitely need to rethink some parts and edit for more accuracy and less brain dump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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