Which Warframe Needs The Most Help From De?

[Diingis]

Which warframe do you think needs the most help? Whether it's buggy moves, weak moves, low stats, or just not useful enough for its purpose.

 

I personally think it's volt. I have every non prime warframe at 30 right now. Even if he's not your favorite, you have to admit he fits all the categories I listed. He's slow, frail (that shield is not very helpful post U9), and weak, even without the armor scaling issue. 8.3 where he got his focus ended up being a nerf all in all.

 

Shock is useless, low damage, not a guaranteed stun, the color fix we so desperately needed brought back the power in use issue again.

 

Speed is not always welcome by the team, and the melee buff is not good enough for a frame with such low armor.

 

Electric shield is buggy when you're not the host (yes even after 8.3), not working with all guns all the time. Try the flux rifle, and try aiming up and down and spawning it, and see the difference when you're not the host. It also has deployment issues if there's any slight lag in the game. It's tiny, stationary,  easily passed through, and its size and effect make it hard to aim. The only thing that it has going for it is the help to lasers and shotguns, but it's not enough to make him useful.  This is what's to be said about his best move.

 

Overload is suicide most of the time. Makes the slow, frail frame the biggest stationary target in the world to do weak damage for a long time. The upside of one time electronics becomes a negative when it extends his air time to keep dealing damage that doesn't kill enemies. Infested don't get staggered by it, grineer above 30 laugh at it. it's not even the best move against corpus.

 

As much as I like the idea of volt, he needs help in all major aspects of him. Right now, at best, his decent in some situations. You might be able to compensate with your guns, but that just means you may as well just use another frame. To add to that, every update ends up either fixing things that don't matter(color and sound issues), or just making him weaker (Update 9, suicidal overload, useless shock etc.) . He's an old frame that once had an overpowered move, so he seems likely to just be ignored by the devs, despite the many posts on this forum showing he has so many issues and suggesting fixes.

 

But I'm biased, I want him to be useful, but I haven't seen the issues being this severe with any of the other frames I've tried. I could be stuck in a bubble thinking I'm the only one seeing problems, while everyone else is having bigger issues. Who do you think needs the most help? Be specific if you can, since even the most useful frames have moves that could use some reworking. This isn't about nerfing any frames, this is about getting help to those frames getting left behind.

Edited July 27, 2013 by Diingis

[Scheifen]

I think the most in need of a buff is... Mag. 

 

Volt still owns Corpus, which is at least something... maybe I'm just ignorant, but I only use Pull and Crush on Mag, at least Volt's skills can all be useful (against Corpus)

 

Banshee would probably be second, because Sonar and Sound Quake are her only good skills... 

 

then Volt... Ember would be up there, but she just needs tweaks that could be hotfixed like nothing, when DE finally decides to scale her damage better 

[metroidman12311]

I've used every frame until it's level 30(except frost prime, damn you void) and I see every frame playable and fun but you need good mods for some to be useful. loki is a glass statue at first but with the right mods you can be invisible all the time and so become a tank for dealing damage without taking damage. volt is another frame that you need to have the right mods for higher levels and without it he can only be used for so long. so I'm not against any frames being overpower but you are saying that because he isn't a god tier frame like vauban and nova he sucks and needs a buff.

 

sorry mate, that's just my opinion

[_Absolom_]

Amen.

[Diingis]

I've used every frame until it's level 30(except frost prime, damn you void) and I see every frame playable and fun but you need good mods for some to be useful. loki is a glass statue at first but with the right mods you can be invisible all the time and so become a tank for dealing damage without taking damage. volt is another frame that you need to have the right mods for higher levels and without it he can only be used for so long. so I'm not against any frames being overpower but you are saying that because he isn't a god tier frame like vauban and nova he sucks and needs a buff.

 

sorry mate, that's just my opinion

 

I appreciate your opinion.

 

Like I said, I also tried every frame to 30. I have survived in high level content with all of them, not all of them potato'd either, and there's work to be done on a lot of them. Saying you can survive doesn't mean everything about the frame is ok. First of all though, according to the devs, they don't want god tier frames, they want everything to be awesome tier. I've used volt most of the game, I have taken him to high level content, but you have to go out of your way to be decent in certain situations, doesn't mean he shouldn't get help. I didn't even ask for him to be overpowered.

 

He has actual bugs in his moves, he's below all the other frames imo. Just because I can manage to survive doesn't mean he's good to go. You can make due with good guns, but that means you can just do that with another frame as well. If the case was how you stated it, the game is perfect as is and this forum is useless because you can survive if you played a certain way and only a certain way and rely only on guns. And it's not me with problems on volt, look at all the fix volt topics, look at 8.3 topic. I can't agree with you telling me he has no issues and fine as is.

 

But I think this topic will run into an issue that people won't put themselves in the shoes of someone who wants to main a less useful frame. Either because they don't make frames as their main, or because they made a very useful frame their main. Volt can easily be good or even great and not overpowered with an improved non buggy versions of all of his moves. And why shouldn't I want another good option in the game?

Edited July 27, 2013 by Diingis

[Diingis]

I think the most in need of a buff is... Mag. 

 

Volt still owns Corpus, which is at least something... maybe I'm just ignorant, but I only use Pull and Crush on Mag, at least Volt's skills can all be useful (against Corpus)

 

Banshee would probably be second, because Sonar and Sound Quake are her only good skills... 

 

then Volt... Ember would be up there, but she just needs tweaks that could be hotfixed like nothing, when DE finally decides to scale her damage better 

 

I agree that Mag needs help, but I feel that crush and pull are actually better than what volt has to off most of the time. The mere fact that crush isn't suicidal is a part of it though. Volt (and banshee for that matter) has to hide to do their ults, no one else does.

[DCypherThis13]

I'm going to have to agree with you on this one, friend. Volt could be really good, but like most of this game, he needs some polish. This whole game is still rough around the edges and Volt is one item that stands out.

[TemetNosce]

Mag.

 

This isn't even a competition in my eyes, Volt at least has general use for speeding, Mag on the other hand simply fades into pointlessness once you're past mid game. Her best end game ability (Crush) turns into a very brief CC at end game. Bullet Attractor can actually reduce DPS. Shield Polarize is like paying for a reduced version of Crush (your shields are going to restore given a few seconds break anyways, it's more a defensive than offensive ability), and Pull while it has uses, is nastily lethal to the user, and not applicable most of the time.

 

Don't get me wrong, Volt needs help, but comparatively speaking he has actual reasons to be used.

[Diingis]

Mag.

 

This isn't even a competition in my eyes, Volt at least has general use for speeding, Mag on the other hand simply fades into pointlessness once you're past mid game. Her best end game ability (Crush) turns into a very brief CC at end game. Bullet Attractor can actually reduce DPS. Shield Polarize is like paying for a reduced version of Crush (your shields are going to restore given a few seconds break anyways, it's more a defensive than offensive ability), and Pull while it has uses, is nastily lethal to the user, and not applicable most of the time.

 

Don't get me wrong, Volt needs help, but comparatively speaking he has actual reasons to be used.

 

 

Oh yeah, well your frame can beat up my frame! (it would be funny if that's what this topic turns into).

 

Mag and volt seem to be here. But for me, Pull > shock (it has guarenteed knockdown  on more enemies, and doesn't lock out the rest of your moves and melee), Crush >overload (it has cc and doesn't get you killed and is done much quicker). At high level neither ult kills I guess, which is why we're here (past wave 5 in pluto, overload can only kill moas so it's not that good against corpus). Crush is still better against grineer and infested, so it has the faction advantage in my eyes. Speed causes most people who aren't ready for it headaches and gets them stuck on objects in crowded rooms. I'm always worried of when the right time to use it, but it's not always welcome.

[TemetNosce]

Oh yeah, well your frame can beat up my frame! (it would be funny if that's what this topic turns into).

 

Mag and volt seem to be here. But for me, Pull > shock (it has guarenteed knockdown  on more enemies, and doesn't lock out the rest of your moves and melee), Crush >overload (it has cc and doesn't get you killed and is done much quicker). At high level neither ult kills I guess, which is why we're here (past wave 5 in pluto, overload can only kill moas so it's not that good against corpus). Crush is still better against grineer and infested, so it has the faction advantage in my eyes. Speed causes most people who aren't ready for it headaches and gets them stuck on objects in crowded rooms. I'm always worried of when the right time to use it, but it's not always welcome.

 

It would at that.

 

As far as what you said, I agree about those two abilities in particular, although marginal use, and being not quite as wasteful are not good arguments in their favor. However, speed is in my opinion the best movement ability in the game, by far. It's makes runs on more than half the map types more efficient. While it's regrettable that it's basically Volt's entire reason for existing right now, at least he does have that going for him. And compare Mag's other abilities, useless at best, one of them is actually able to be of negative value.

[merryfistmas]

pretty much all the frames need help so they don't have  2-3 useless abilities but volt is definitely up there. His damage is irrelevant on corpus past lvl 50ish (shock can't even one shot ospreys). I finally got around to testing electric shield and it actually is extra damage with every weapon (or at least the ones I tried). I'm using him more and more as a solo frame nowadays.

[Dasmir]

MAg and loki, comon loki cant even stealth the sentinel.

[Diingis]

pretty much all the frames need help so they don't have  2-3 useless abilities but volt is definitely up there. His damage is irrelevant on corpus past lvl 50ish (shock can't even one shot ospreys). I finally got around to testing electric shield and it actually is extra damage with every weapon (or at least the ones I tried). I'm using him more and more as a solo frame nowadays.

 

Electric shield is good move, if you can get past the issues it has. Lasers become hitscan, making supra and dera very good weapons. Flux and spectra become infinite distance (only if you're host, if you're not, it only passes through once in a while, it's blocked the rest of the time) Shotguns lose fallout damage, meaning you can shotgun snipe. Most people want it to be either bigger or tethered to volt. Bigger would be an easy way to do it, mobile would be a cool unique thing for him. It used to have armor pierce, but it doesn't as of 8.3.

 

It doesn't power bolt weapons and throwing weapons. That means boltor, paris, dread, despair, kunai, hikou, acrid don't get a boost. I'm not 100% sure about the ogris, I'm pretty sure it's blocked but I haven't tested it really to make sure if it's a host only issue. It's fine this way IMO. Making volt better with other guns is a good idea, especially given that most of the weapons that it doesn't help are already some of the best weapons in the game anyway.

 

It's still bugged with the hosting issues, but yeah after using volt for a while, you're gonna be using shield way more than anything else (maybe speed, but it's not a damage move so it doesn't help you with enemies). It's a decent move that could be great, and it also makes volt reliant on guns anyway which is an issue.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Diingis

[RoboDoge]

Olderly frame!

[Grilleds]

Volt. Before they changed him, he could be easily modded to solo Pluto missions using Overload while barely even firing his guns. Now Overload seems to do less damage, enemies are higher levels in general, and Volt is suspended in the air long after Overload stops doing anything. His other skills are pretty crappy too. Electric Shield is buggy still. Speed is occasionally useful but it isn't exactly a frame defining skill, and shock is decent for stunning Corpus, but its otherwise still probably the least useful skill in the game. I wouldn't mind Volt being crappy against non-Corpus if it wasn't for the fact that he still feels weak even vs Corpus (past level 50).

I've tried a number of different mod combinations and I still don't find him as useful as any of the other frames I got, including the ones I don't even have potatoed. The only good thing I can say about him is Overload has absurd range. However Nova's ultimate has even better range, only does 200 less damage, does its damage instantly, doesn't leave Nova vulnerable as much, and has added effects that increase damage even more in addition to slowing survivors and causing enemies to become explosive. Meaning Nova is usually a better frame, even vs Corpus.

[Diingis]

that reminds me to try loki again post update 9. He was my first frame, invisibility and a well placed decoy had their advantage but I can see how he may not be as good as a utility as other frames. Aside from fixing the sentential not disappearing, I don't think he has any bugs. Not sure how he to improve him, the theme is hard to make up moves for. Maybe a higher cost area invisibility where as long as teammates stay near him or inside a bastille/fireblast/snowglobe area they'll be invisible, but I'm not sure how that would work out, it would have to leave the decoy visible. It would be funny if he made the pod invisible too, while that would seem op, it didn't stop nyx, frost, and vauban from getting amazing utility defense moves, and he already distracts enemies with his decoy, there maybe a case for it.

 

but from the looks of it, volt and mag need help the most.  Loki being a utility frame won't get much help from armor scaling if that's all the next patch gives him.

[Sorez]

Bug wise, I think Ash needs the most help, as his Blade-storm literally makes him invincible and fly in the air sometimes.

[Diingis]

Would it make you feel better to know that I'm a bit jealous because volt's bugs don't make him invincible?

 

On a side note, I do get a strange bit of satisfaction out of making volt's situation work, such as speeding to help a downed teammate far away and putting a shield to revive them (don't have sanctuary) just in time, or playing a def and finding a good shield sniping spot or becoming a poor man's frost by finding the best 2 or 3 areas to deploy my shield. The kind of feeling you sometimes get when you pull off a long defense without frost/vauban/nyx because the team worked well enough together to cover all the areas, and because of creativity, skill, and teamwork you succeed even though part of you doubted you could do it because of the lower margin of error.

 

The problem is that when you fail and it feels like your warframe's abilities aren't working the way they should, or that you don't use your moves because you know they won't help. Not to mention you never feel like a contributing member of a "god tier" team like if you played vauban frost, nyx, nova, etc. in defense. With the weaker frames, you feel you needed someone else, with stronger frames you feel everyone else needed you. Mag's is an example of this, pull being great in a lot of combos in defense. The situational uses would have to come up more often to offset a feeling being useless. like maybe if the electricty came back on a while after overload used it up in the room (it's really just a cooldown of the bonus damage). Either that or give everyone an amazing ult so they can use it when they want to feel powerful.

 

There's usually a feeling that makes me question if I should use any of volt's abilities in a lot of situations(will shock stun/damage enough, will my team hate a speed buff now, will my shield spawn correctly cover the area and angle I need, will overload not kill anything/get me killed). A lot of frames, I only really question the energy cost and nothing else. I have a feeling that this kind of tension, properly done, could have been good if the whole game was built this way from the start and all the frames had to face these decisions. But since that's not the case now and we are, more or less, used to an idea of how good things should be, bringing every frame down to this level would not be a good idea (imagine snowglobe being brought down to electric shield's size). Troubled frames would have to be brought up. how good rhino became from 8.3 makes it weird to me how bad volt and mag came out of it. I'm glad they're not focusing on making a new frame now, properly improved frames can give that new frame feeling too.

 

Not sure if I'm anyone feels the way I do about all this.

[Nightshyft]

Loki...and here is why:

 

This weekends event. I took Loki in and did several of the Formoi mission....and found out how truly useless he is at higher levels. I have modded Streamline, Focus and Flow. I have Invisibility, Decoy and Radial Disarm at max. Loki is also Potatoed. In a level 50-60 Grineer fight with Maxed Fang(Potatoed), Maxed Paris(Potatoed) and Kunai(level 28)...I was worthless, Invisible or not. All three weapons ignore armor. Yet I couldn't kill anything without double my normal shots(Level 30-40 I one shot head  shot Grineer...Level 50-60 it took FIVE headshots)....Fang took WAY too long even while invisible(and I can stay invisible for quite a long time)....I would take TWO uses of a maxed invisibility to down a Grineer...a normal Grineer!. Kunai, with 10 shots took at least 8 shots...often 12.

 

IF that is the case, his powers SHOULD have helped even the tide. Not so...Decoy 1 shoted everytime...period. So that did nothing, not even help take the enemy off of me. Invisibility was situational at best....I could run away. My ability to just take a target down was not even feasible. Switch Teleport...no need to even discuss, that would be suicide to use at this level. Radial Disarm....again, VERY situational. Large amount of Grineer, just makes them rush me....with more behind them NOT AFFECTED by the Radial Disarm. Radial Disarm is only useful IF you have a small area to control...Large areas make it worthless.

 

Does Loki control the battlefield? Absolutely...in level 1-30. There is no doubt he has his uses in those levels and can hold his own with a skilled player. But...as the level scale up from 30, his abilities no longer have the impact they are supposed to. In fact, they get trivalized quite quickly when compared to damage orientated Warframes. Thus his teammate capabilities are gone. Solo at 40 and above...not happening. Unless I just run in and run out...aka Stealth the mission. Not always possible.

 

Fixes: I have had several before...especially changing the Tier 4 Power. BUT, I am just going to focus on fixing what is there to make Loki Viable in ALL levels.

 

Decoy: Easy...get rid of the health. It does not make sense and you already have a timer. If it functioned at level 1 the same way it functioned at level 60...no one would ever play Decoy.

 

Invisibility: Harder...but doable. Scale the damage perk. Change the percentage if you have to. Of all the abilities, this would be the one that could remain unchanged.

 

Switch Teleport: Not viable at higher levels due to Loki low Shields/Health. A complete overhaul of the power is more viable than a complete overhaul of Loki. Make it target anything we can destroy. That makes those explosive barrels worth more. Still not a great solution, really needs a rework of Decoy or a power that allows you to make an enemy look like you(ala Nyx).

 

Radial Disarm: STUN them. You just took away their weapons and they just draw the stun stick and go to town?. Stun them for 3 seconds. And remove the blocked by objects(Loki just teleports their wepons away....). and Increase the range. It is horribly short...even maxed.

 

OR...solve all of that by doing the following easy solution: Take away level limitations on the powers. Don't cap them. It is already an exorbiant cost to even get to their maxed level. However, I always have mods I don't and won't use....give me something to spend them on. Even if the increments grow littler, there is still growth.

 

Just my Illusions....

[gasto40]

If only I had read about this watframe before..... I wouldn't ever had chose it. Its abilities are meaningless compared to other warframes, and it becomes useless once you clear the first planets, needing help from another players in order to complete the missions...

[Diingis]

Nightshyft, as far as I know, Focus does nothing for loki. Why do you have it equipped? Did they change something on him? Do you run continuity and constitution?

[Rakleon]

I think the most in need of a buff is... Mag. 

 

Volt still owns Corpus, which is at least something... maybe I'm just ignorant, but I only use Pull and Crush on Mag, at least Volt's skills can all be useful (against Corpus)

 

Banshee would probably be second, because Sonar and Sound Quake are her only good skills... 

 

then Volt... Ember would be up there, but she just needs tweaks that could be hotfixed like nothing, when DE finally decides to scale her damage better 

I agreed about Banshee , they should really increase the dmg done by Sonic Boom to at least 150-200 . I mean 75 ? c'mon DEVs , i put my time , pain , blood and sweet into farming Banshee and i really love her but i don't want to sell her away because of this . Banshee needs a buff on Sonic Boom because Sonar and Sound Quake + Silence on some occasion fine as it is ! 

[Kesella]

Mag is actually in a better spot than most people think.  Once they get past the idea that she is supposed to be support or a nuker she does very well at being an assault frame.  Pull followed by charge attacks from a maxed out orthos will kill anything save Heavies, and even they will be hurt allot.  Shield polarize is a nice shield restore in a pinch and Crush is a nice "Oh S#&$" button for either getting yourself out of trouble to reposition, stoping enemies from attacking a defense target or giving some breathing room to so a teammate can revive a fallen ally.  The only ability that needs some love is Bullet Attractor.  But yea, Mag is a melee beast against groups of enemies with all the free charge attacks (3-4 usually) that you get with knocked down enemies.  I am able to keep up with or even surpass nuker frames in kills AND I keep all the exp and drops near the group.  And this is all before you get into team synergy with things like Bastille and Torid which creates even deadlier combos.  Buff Mag?  Sure I will take it but I want some challenge in this game outside toxics.

[Ariarch]

Loki or Ash

 

Loki:

Decoy: Useless at higher levels

Invisibility: Good

Switch Teleport: Should make enemies think that their friend is their enemy.

Radial Disarm: Needs to be deleted, useless.

 

Ash:

Shuriken: Not useful in any way.

Smokescreen: A useless Invisibility copycat. So, we are trading a half-second stun for about 7 seconds of invincibility..... Yeah, right....

Teleport: Seriously, another copy. I also think that this is stupid because you do a flip in front of the target which is enough time for them to shred you.

Baldestorm: Buggy and not useful on higher waves and better enemies.

[Happicakes]

Would love to see trinity tinkered with. Maybe allowing its drain energy/life abilities to take on a more offensive role (i.e. drained life = damage to unit, or giving a damage bump to tenno targeting the tagged units).