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[QOL] Focus 2.0 has major problems. This is better. (Spoilers: TSD, TWW)


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Let me start this by saying, I love Warframe; and while I can "live with" the new Focus 2.0 system, but having to play with it, it's really, really frustrating from a game-designer point of view.
The Devs have already made it clear that they want to gauge player response to the new economies they've added, and they have already made a few modifications for the better.
This then, is my personal "player-level" input. In fact, consider it a follow-up to THIS POST where I outlined a Stat boosting system for Operators back in November of Last Year.

 

So while I was fishing, I had the following thoughts on Focus 2.0...

The ultimate goal of this change is to allow players to experiment with different Focus builds before committing to irreversible, EXPENSIVE choices.
And to add far more options with what to do with Focus once you no longer need to get more of it.

 

---== Part 1: Focus Lens Re-balance ==---

First of all, 15 lenses is far too much. Especially when 2/3rd of them are going to be considered worthless by the community.
In this new system, Lenses will be re-balanced to provide 1% Focus per tier, retaining the three tiers of Lens, Greater Lens and Eidolon Lens.
Focus Lens = 1% of Affinity converted to Focus.
Greater Focus Lens = 2% of Affinity converted to Focus.
Eidolon Focus Lens = 3% of Affinity converted to Focus.

Additionally, focus lenses will no longer be based on a School, but provide a generic Focus resource as you gain affinity.
Crafting Eidolon Lens will now require 2 Greater Lenses; while Greater Lenses will still require 4 basic Focus Lenses.

 

---== Part 2: Focus Widgets ==---

So I'm getting rid of Schools right? ... no.
Focus Widgets are a craft-able resource that are School Specific: e.g. Naramon Focus Widget, Vazarin Focus Widget, etc...
You obtain Focus Widgets by crafting them from Focus, using blue-prints obtained from The Quills for 100 Quills Standing each.

Each Focus Widget Blueprint has the same crafting cost:
>> 100,000 Focus
>> 1 Intact Eidolon Core
* 10,000 Credits, 6 Hours, Reusable, May not be rushed.

10x Focus Widget Blueprints are available from the Quills at Maximum Rank for 10,000 Standing each.

Each 10x Focus Widget Blueprint has the same crafting cost:
>> 900,000 Focus
>> 9 Intact Eidolon Cores
>> 1 Exceptional Eidolon Core
>> 3000 Kuva
* 100,000 Credits, 12 Hours, Reusable. May not be rushed.

Once crafted, Focus Widgets can be used to upgrade Focus Ways, or be traded to The Quills for a moderate amount of standing or used to craft School Specific AMP componants.

 

---== Part 3: Installing Focus Widgets ==---

Rather than costing raw Focus to upgrade Ways in the Focus Tree, you will be installing Focus Widgets.
Obviously only Naramon Focus Widgets would only be used to upgrade Naramon Ways, but how many are needed?

To unlock a Way, 1 Focus Widget is spent. This widget is lost.

To upgrade a Way, you install a number of widgets based on the Way's current rank.
Rank 0 to 1 = 1 Widget.
Rank 1 to 2 = 2 Widgets.
Rank 2 to 3 = 3 Widgets.
Rank 3 to 4 = 5 Widgets.
Rank 4 to 5 = 8 Widgets.
Rank 5 to 6 = 13 Widgets.
Rank 6 to 7 = 21 Widgets. (currently nothing has 7 Ranks, so this is theoretical)

You may Uninstall Widgets to downgrade them, and recover those widgets.

There is no longer a Way-Pool Capacity, nor the associated costs of increasing this cap.

When you Unbind a Way, it becomes permanently installed, and may not recover widgets used to upgrade it.
Unbound passives become unlocked in every school; without additional cost.

Only a Way at maximum rank may be unbound.
This cost is 1 Brilliant Eidolon Shard + X Eidolon Shards, where X equals the number of other Ways you have previously unbound.

In addition to these changes, all unlocked Focus Passives are enabled during missions without needing to use Transference first.

 

---== Part 3: Implementation of Changes ==---

There is no longer a need for a Focus Cap.
Players may now focus farm on THEIR schedule, not DE's.
Note: because the acquisition of Focus Widgets is now based on a crafting timer that cannot be accelerated by platinum, Operator growth will not suddenly be limited to a fanatical devotion to the grind.

Previous Focus spent activating Ways will be refunded to each player in the form of Widgets for each of the corresponding Schools.
This amount will be equal to what would be needed to allocate their current Way payments.
Focus spent increasing Way-Pool Capacities will be refunded in the form of the new generic Focus resource.
Outstanding focus paid into increasing the rank of a Way, but not reaching that new rank, will be refunded as generic Focus resource.
Any unspent focus will also be converted to the new generic Focus resource.
 

---== Part 4: Focus Buddy ==---

This is just to address a pet peeve of mine, as someone who has for a long time, had all 5 Schools unlocked.
Switching between schools when changing between Warframe Loadouts is an annoying, tedious and easily forgoten step.

veHFpIe.png"Hello, Operator! I am Focus Buddy!"

Focus Buddy is a UI element in the Warframe Loadout screen that overrides the current Focus School setting in the Transference Chamber.

The UI has 6 Settings: Use Default School and one for each School you wish to override the default with for that loadout.

tf8rLsY.jpg

(Note: This is an old render using the Focus 1.0 name for the Naramon Operator power. In the new Focus 2.0 system, this would just read "Naramon".)

 

I hope you enjoyed my lengthy idea, and hope you see the same benefits I do. If not, why not tell me about it in excruciating detail in the comments below!

As always, have fun out there, be kind to each other, but equally mean to those that oppose the Tenno!

holyicon ofq8rLzRd.pngsangraal

Edited by holyicon
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or they could

  • just lower the costs and/or improve the return from existing lenses....
  • remove the extra cost needed to ensure there is space for the braench/ability
  • make all focus go into a central pool rather than individual schools removing the need for school specific lenses and freeing up choice of warframe/weapon we use
  • add the ability to respec our focus schools

Your idea just seems overly complicated and in essence adds more grind to something that is already excessively grindy.

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2 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

or they could

  • just lower the costs and/or improve the return from existing lenses....
  • remove the extra cost needed to ensure there is space for the braench/ability
  • make all focus go into a central pool rather than individual schools removing the need for school specific lenses and freeing up choice of warframe/weapon we use
  • add the ability to respec our focus schools

Your idea just seems overly complicated and in essence adds more grind to something that is already excessively grindy.

This is literally those features. Just without using a flavorless methods that abstract the lore of what is happening into a metaphysical feature that "in-universe" only exists within the construct of the menu system.

I'm sorry, I don't see it as overly-complicated or adding to the grind.
Unless you LIKE logging in every day to get in your 250,000 Focus, rather than doing it all on your day off, and then using the mobile app every so often to rotate blueprints?
 

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While i dont mind the idea of a different way of managing focus, i dont feel this is the best method. Personally, im in favor of the direct method of point gathering, though i do like the idea of the focus buddy.

I'd like a system where each lens equipped gives a set amount of focus points based on the mission lengths, with the higher level lenses giving more (eg, a extermination might give  1 x total focus points, while a defense might give number of waves x total focus points). DE could remove the daily cap, as the focus would be less farmable 'draco style'. There would likely need to be an additional bonus to the focus gain based on enemy level.

 

I'd also like to see the tree gain a much greater amount of nodes, but with each node costing less and having smaller benifits. Perhaps even combining all the trees into one, with the schools abilities being accessed in different branches. The idea being that rather than needing to farm massive amounts of focus to unlock nodes, the player gets a more gradual progression with more frequent, if smaller, unlocks.

In the case of a single upgrade tree, the lenses equipped would all generate the same points, but offer benefits to the equipped weapon of frame based on the school of the lens (benifits could be unlocked or enhanced as nodes on the focus tree itself).

 

Just my own feelings on the system. I'd like focus to look similar to the upgrade trees in Fortnite.

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49 minutes ago, holyicon said:

.

Unless you LIKE logging in every day to get in your 250,000 Focus, rather than doing it all on your day off, and then using the mobile app every so often to rotate blueprints?
 

Personally I have no issue with the daily allowance cap or that if I choose not to login on a day I don't get any standing, to me the main problem is that most of us don't get anywhere near the daily limit unless we meta farm......

You added more grind into an already grindy system by making us build more blueprints which in themselves by your design requires more resources including kuva (which lets be honest is a boring as anything to farm) and eidolon cores which for many of us are going into levelling up the quills....

5 minutes ago, chaotea said:

I'd like a system where each lens equipped gives a set amount of focus points based on the mission lengths, with the higher level lenses giving more (eg, a extermination might give  1 x total focus points, while a defense might give number of waves x total focus points). DE could remove the daily cap, as the focus would be less farmable 'draco style'. There would likely need to be an additional bonus to the focus gain based on enemy level.

That sounds like it could increase the amount of work needed to get any decent level of focus imo because we all know how good DE are at balancing their values.

Edited by LSG501
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2 minutes ago, chaotea said:

<snip>

Thanks for the feedback :)

What I was going for here was trying to retain as much of the "effect" functionality of the current system, but affording the player more options and expanding the scope of focus into other, potential economies. I tossed around the idea in my head of having Focus Widgets tradeable to other players for platinum... but that seemed dirty. lol

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2 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Personally I have no issue with the daily allowance cap or that if I choose not to login on a day I don't get any standing, to me the main problem is that most of us don't get anywhere near the daily limit unless we meta farm......

You added more grind into an already grindy system by making us build more blueprints which in themselves by your design requires more resources including kuva (which lets be honest is a boring as anything to farm) and eidolon cores which for many of us are going into levelling up the quills....

Meh.. the Kuva cost is negotiable... You're treating it like a deal-breaker. What's wrong with the CONCEPT ... not the cost.
Although ... do the math on the 10x BP again. You're getting a widget for free. And much faster than the 1x BP.
Also, did you miss the part about being able to trade back the Widgets you don't need for Quill Standing? ... I left that value blank, so I guess than means "Zero".

For that matter, the 100,000 focus per Widget is negotiable. Maybe add up how much focus that is to max a Way vs the current system, then factor the increase % from each lens tier. And we could arrive at a proper price. Again... what's wrong with the CONCEPT.

We can negotiate the grind. You don't have to hide behind it as an easy excuse.

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14 minutes ago, holyicon said:

Meh.. the Kuva cost is negotiable... You're treating it like a deal-breaker. What's wrong with the CONCEPT ... not the cost.
Although ... do the math on the 10x BP again. You're getting a widget for free. And much faster than the 1x BP.
Also, did you miss the part about being able to trade back the Widgets you don't need for Quill Standing? ... I left that value blank, so I guess than means "Zero".

For that matter, the 100,000 focus per Widget is negotiable. Maybe add up how much focus that is to max a Way vs the current system, then factor the increase % from each lens tier. And we could arrive at a proper price. Again... what's wrong with the CONCEPT.

We can negotiate the grind. You don't have to hide behind it as an easy excuse.

It still doesn't get past the fact you're overcomplicating a situation to solve an issue that can be easily solved by what I posted

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1 minute ago, LSG501 said:

It still doesn't get past the fact you're overcomplicating a situation to solve an issue that can be easily solved by what I posted

yeah... but what you posted is boring and doesn't touch all the features my concept would add. if you're just going to be negative, or suggest the game straight-up copy the exact methodology of those features in their vanilla form from other games, just post in emojis from now on.

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13 minutes ago, holyicon said:

yeah... but what you posted is boring and doesn't touch all the features my concept would add. if you're just going to be negative, or suggest the game straight-up copy the exact methodology of those features in their vanilla form from other games, just post in emojis from now on.

So basically you're just saying you want your concept to be done because it's 'your idea' ... says it all really. 

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1 minute ago, LSG501 said:

So basically you're just saying you want your concept to be done because it's 'your idea' ... says it all really. 

Oh good, so you CAN notice that way of thinking... try looking in a mirror.


But seriously... I'm not hearing any criticism from you other than "Complicated" ... What about it makes it complicated? Please... enlighten me on your level of thinking.

Edited by holyicon
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1 hour ago, holyicon said:

Oh good, so you CAN notice that way of thinking... try looking in a mirror.


But seriously... I'm not hearing any criticism from you other than "Complicated" ... What about it makes it complicated? Please... enlighten me on your level of thinking.

If you can't see how it's overcomplicating something that by all intense purposes is fairly simple already (you stick a lens on something, you get standing from it) and you're not going to accept someone disliking it then there is really no point going any further with discussions about it. 

All I will say is out of the few people that have 'liked' anything in this thread the more 'simple' approach has received more likes to yours in the same period of time (as of this post).... Basically to fix focus it needs to me be made simpler and more efficient not try and 'reinvent the wheel' by adding in more unnecessary additions.

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1 hour ago, LSG501 said:

If you can't see how it's overcomplicating something that by all intense purposes is fairly simple already (you stick a lens on something, you get standing from it) and you're not going to accept someone disliking it then there is really no point going any further with discussions about it. 

All I will say is out of the few people that have 'liked' anything in this thread the more 'simple' approach has received more likes to yours in the same period of time (as of this post).... Basically to fix focus it needs to me be made simpler and more efficient not try and 'reinvent the wheel' by adding in more unnecessary additions.

What I'm suggesting isn't any more complicated than the current relic system.

It's Attach Lens, Get Focus, Craft Widget. Then Use that widget as you see fit.

The concept here isn't JUST to give the player a fancy "new wheel" respec ability, but to create a resource that has more uses than JUST the focus tree.

 

I'm sorry if that point was missed by you.
But yeah, MY BAD for suggesting a concept in the PLAYER CONCEPTS sub-forum that isn't just "oh use this feature other games have".

While you're at it, why don't you go tell all the other players suggesting new Warframes to "just play the ones DE already made" whenever they come up with a new mechanic involved with them.

 

Your talents of being a wet blanket are wasted here, but I do have to thank you for bumping the post so many times.

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I'd just like to make the point; what I've suggedted in NOT "More Grinding".
I'm going to spell out the difference in Focus needed for my proposed system.
Something any player would realize if they just took more than 2 seconds to glance over the costs.

-----------
Assuming each 1x Widget still costs 100,000 Focus and 1 Intact Core.
Assuming each 10x Widget pack costs 900,000 Focus, 3,000 Kuva, 9 Intact Cores and 1 Exceptional Core.
-----------

The following shows the Total Focus needed to fully unlock and unbond Zenurik's "Void Suiphon" Way.

Void Siphon has 6 Dots: 5 Ranks. plus one dot that represents Unbinding.
Unbinding is NOT a Rank-Up and does not improve the stat value of the Way.
So, in case you missed it, I was suggesting the removal of the 1,000,000 Focus cost to Unbind.

VOID SIPHON (Current System, in focus, ignoring the Way-Cap Focus Cost)
Unlock : 50,000
Rank Up : 150,000 / 225,000 / 300,000 / 375,000 / 450,000 / 1,000,000 + BES

Total = 2,550,000 Focus.


VOID SIPHON (Widget System, in focus per widget)
Unlock : 100,000
Rank Up : 100,000 / 200,000 / 300,000 / 500,000 / 800,000 / 0 + BES (+ES x PUBW)

20 Zunurik Widgets
------------
Total using 1x Blueprints = 2,000,000 Focus (+ 20 Intact Cores)
Total using 10x Blueprints = 1,800,000 Focus (+ 6,000 Kuva, 18 Intact Cores, 2 Exceptional Cores)


So yeah... even when ignoring the Way-Capacity cost...
550,000 to 750,000 less focus needed...
That's TOTALLY more grinding... sheesh.


If this still seems "overly complicated" it's because I'm being as unambiguious about the idea as I can.
I tend to be verbose, deal with it.

And shame on anyone that doesn't think the Warframe community is smart enough to understand this.

And again,
If you over-produce Widgets, you can trade them to the Quills for Standing.
This is to mitigate the loss of potential standing from using Cores.
Ideally you would get much more standing than the value of the Cores.

Also,
I'd like to see School Specific AMP components (as I mentioned in the OP), and Widgets would be the perfect resource for them.
But let's not dwell on little things like "Imagination" or "Subtle Suggestions".

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23 hours ago, LSG501 said:

That sounds like it could increase the amount of work needed to get any decent level of focus imo because we all know how good DE are at balancing their values.

Well, as the nodes would be much lower with their cost, you could progress more efficiently. It would also allow DE to regularly update the tree with more nodes, potentially making an ever expanding skill tree.

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Okay so because of what Scott said during DevStream #100 never-mind this post... except focus buddy. We still need Focus Buddy.

 

I just wanted to come back one more time and illustrate just how messed up the current Focus System is, for anyone that's never thought about the actual math..
And how (unlike what @LSG501 said) the Widget System would not be more grinding.


Under the current system.
Assuming you are MR24 and can hit the 250,000 Daily Focus Cap.
You will require roughly the following amount of Focus per school.
(Values found on the Warframe Wikia, and in include Way-Bound unlock and capacity.)

Madurai: 8,700,000 (35 days)
Vazarin: 12,300,000 (49 days)
Unairu: 9,900,000 (40 days)
Naramon: 6,300,000 (25 days)
Zenurik: 18,600,000 (75 days)
___
Total: 55,800,000 (224 Days)


NOW...
Let's Assume it takes just as much focus in the Widget System (enough though it would be much less, as shown previously).

You would need 558 Widgets.

Considering you can have 10 Blueprints cooking at once (one 1x bp per school and one 10x bp per school).
You could produce 24 Widgets per School, per day.

So, the school that would take the longest (and remember you could do these schools concurrently if you had the focus) is Zenurik.

186 Zenurik Widgets / 24 = 8 Days.

EIGHT DAYS OF CRAFTING!!! OMG THE HUMANITY!!!!

So.. Max Effort 8 Days vs Max Effort 224 Days.
Granted this 8 Days of crafting would be broken up by your personal ability to gather focus and your disposition with The Quills... such is life.

Again this is assuming you need more focus and unlocks than my Widget System actually requires.
So... not only is this NOT more grinding... I may have drastically over-corrected?

eh, whatever. I await the incoming abomination that Scott has in mind. 

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