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Azyrt

Zaw's skins

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I bet I'm not the only one who thinks that Zaws are ugly... I do get the intention of developers to portray primitive-like weapons build by a ppl after all the events that happens in warframe but come on, they're ugly enough to bother me to a point that I'm writing this feedback... Why can't we use swords skins on Ooltha? I can only imagine this:

- It's not a sword but hey it uses swords' stances and...

- it isn't a sword...

- Okay, can we use the new scyth skin cause it looks a little bit you know.

- Are you crazy? A scyth using sword stance? just in your dreams, use it as mr fodder and delete this ugly something and please don't even mention the kronsh :o

 

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if you dont like the Module Style of weapons AKA Hok's Costum Blade's

then dont use em  you dont see me talking about how almost every infested style weapons is butt ugly and asking for a skin to put on em i dont have to look at the uglyness

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tbh i really like the design of the zaws and i think they fit cetus and the plains perfectly

but hey why not
if it uses a sword stance you should be allowed to use a sword skin
and if its a pole arm use a pole arm skin

i support this and can't think of any argument against this idea

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5 minutes ago, baldy117 said:

if you dont like the Module Style of weapons AKA Hok's Costum Blade's

then dont use em  you dont see me talking about how almost every infested style weapons is butt ugly and asking for a skin to put on em i dont have to look at the uglyness

I like the system but don't like the skins... Can't we have both just by adding some customization? So if you like them and want to use them with the released skins why not but I don't see any reason to not use our skins for each weapon category

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1 hour ago, Azyrt said:

I like the system but don't like the skins... Can't we have both just by adding some customization? So if you like them and want to use them with the released skins why not but I don't see any reason to not use our skins for each weapon category

i think the System Cant handle the Skins because the Zaws are multi component the ring or 'weights' can hidden by skins  but the handle's and strike's are classed to more then 1 weapon group DE might even need to Push out a Cosmetic Fashion 2.0 for Skins on Modular weapon systems and than make it work everything else ingame

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9 hours ago, baldy117 said:

i think the System Cant handle the Skins because the Zaws are multi component the ring or 'weights' can hidden by skins  but the handle's and strike's are classed to more then 1 weapon group DE might even need to Push out a Cosmetic Fashion 2.0 for Skins on Modular weapon systems and than make it work everything else ingame

Its actually simpler than that, DE just codes (for weapons that is) use -> this model, someone selects skin, use -> that model. It is the same way the tennogen skins can be easily added into the game, it just switches models hence whey all of the weapons in Warframe can use the universal skins even when they have SUPER unique parts, ie. Zenistar using the Dominion skin.

I like the look of my Cyath Machete and my Mewan sword but I wish I could use the Frysta skin on my Mewan sword. I bought the deluxe pack for the sword skin but I don't like any of the stats on the swords, so I made a sword I prefer.

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On 11/2/2017 at 10:45 AM, baldy117 said:

if you dont like the Module Style of weapons AKA Hok's Costum Blade's

then dont use em  you dont see me talking about how almost every infested style weapons is butt ugly and asking for a skin to put on em i dont have to look at the uglyness

I don't think that's so much the case. Its more that people have every right to use the skins that they already paid for, especially on weapons that should use that skin. Makes no sense not to do it. Also, fashion frame pretty much pays for the game, and the devs see that it matters. I'm sure its something they will add anyway.

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Dear Tenno,

We are sorry that we have not been able to add skins to the Zaws - and we won't be able to anytime soon. This issue is... surprisingly complicated, so let's walk through it so we're all on the same page.

The system for re-working skins for Zaws is much more complicated than it might appear. The functionality of the Zaws is deeply connected to the Mesh of the weapon. The Mesh determines how the Zaws function, and to change the skin of the weapon would mean changing the functionality of each individual piece for the Zaw. Zaw's and Exodia both require the base assets, looking at the way Balance meshes and projectiles work means that changing the meshes would totally change the performance of the weapon in-game.

We are not saying this will not happen, but it would be a massive undertaking on our end to change the cosmetics when we’re devoted to making other changes at the moment. We’re just saying it's not going to happen anytime soon.  

Thanks Tenno!

P.S. I'm [DE]Marcus, I'm new here but I'll see you around! 


Sincerely, Forum n00b be gentle 

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This... sounds like something that could have been fixed by separating the stats from the visuals. Still have the parts be coded for underlying stats with the visual not changing anything? Not a programmer by any means, but this seems like something simple to have split apart and not make it so intertwined.

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7 minutes ago, Cradicias said:

This... sounds like something that could have been fixed by separating the stats from the visuals. Still have the parts be coded for underlying stats with the visual not changing anything? Not a programmer by any means, but this seems like something simple to have split apart and not make it so intertwined.

The problem is not the stats and where they are, but the mesh. The mesh is how the weapon looks, it's model. the problem is probubly related to the hitbox (which is based on the mesh) of the weapon which will affect the weapon's performance.

Skins, most of them in Warframe, have a different mesh. There are skins which only change the material (colors, patterns and those kind of stuff) that don't change the mesh, but the problem OP adress that he don't like the shape so skins of this kind won't do the work. I personnaly like the design, but I will agree with OP that it should be a possibllity.

We just wait more, but DE knows.

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5 minutes ago, Cradicias said:

This... sounds like something that could have been fixed by separating the stats from the visuals. Still have the parts be coded for underlying stats with the visual not changing anything? Not a programmer by any means, but this seems like something simple to have split apart and not make it so intertwined.

Agreed, maybe have the Zaw parts be a entity that the stats are attached to, the mesh of the weapon is attached to the entity as well, but the entity isn't dependent on the mesh to determine the stats. I know that back when I did a lot of Halo PC moding back in high school, Halo's weapons was basically a collection of files that is tied together by a weapon tag file, which holds the basic stats of fire rate, zoom, magazine size, extra ammo pool, what type of magazine, and then you had your projectile tag file which determine the projectile's properties like speed, homing, and spread, which is linked to a Damage tag file, which is your damage properties. The weapon tag file was your core file for the weapons, but the extra files for damage, projectiles, models, textures, and sound was nodes linked together or to the core file, but you can switch out one of the file with different with another file of the same type without messing with the other files, unless it's a sub-file to the one you changed.

So basically, I could change a sniper rifle's over all model to look like a needler, the model and textures would be changed, but the projectile, damage, and sounds would stay the same.

I'm wondering if that could be useful. 

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29 minutes ago, [DE]Marcus said:

-Snip-

Thanks for letting us know! Hopefully it does eventually get fixed. Also, welcome to the forums! :)

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32 minutes ago, FrostedMike said:

The problem is not the stats and where they are, but the mesh. The mesh is how the weapon looks, it's model. the problem is probubly related to the hitbox (which is based on the mesh) of the weapon which will affect the weapon's performance.

Skins, most of them in Warframe, have a different mesh. There are skins which only change the material (colors, patterns and those kind of stuff) that don't change the mesh, but the problem OP adress that he don't like the shape so skins of this kind won't do the work. I personnaly like the design, but I will agree with OP that it should be a possibllity.

We just wait more, but DE knows.

But this doesn't affect other weapons when using skins that change shape? I don't see that being the case.

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53 minutes ago, [DE]Marcus said:

 

 

Dear Tenno,

We are sorry that we have not been able to add skins to the Zaws - and we won't be able to anytime soon. This issue is... surprisingly complicated, so let's walk through it so we're all on the same page.

The system for re-working skins for Zaws is much more complicated than it might appear. The functionality of the Zaws is deeply connected to the Mesh of the weapon. The Mesh determines how the Zaws function, and to change the skin of the weapon would mean changing the functionality of each individual piece for the Zaw. Zaw's and Exodia both require the base assets, looking at the way Balance meshes and projectiles work means that changing the meshes would totally change the performance of the weapon in-game.

We are not saying this will not happen, but it would be a massive undertaking on our end to change the cosmetics when we’re devoted to making other changes at the moment. We’re just saying it's not going to happen anytime soon.  

Thanks Tenno!

P.S. I'm [DE]Marcus, I'm new here but I'll see you around! 


Sincerely, Forum n00b be gentle 

Genuine question: What's preventing you from doing something like... Copying the stats from said equipped zaw and transferring them to the skin and just removing the zaw mesh from the equation?

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3 hours ago, [DE]Marcus said:

 

Dear Tenno,

We are sorry that we have not been able to add skins to the Zaws - and we won't be able to anytime soon. This issue is... surprisingly complicated, so let's walk through it so we're all on the same page.

The system for re-working skins for Zaws is much more complicated than it might appear. The functionality of the Zaws is deeply connected to the Mesh of the weapon. The Mesh determines how the Zaws function, and to change the skin of the weapon would mean changing the functionality of each individual piece for the Zaw. Zaw's and Exodia both require the base assets, looking at the way Balance meshes and projectiles work means that changing the meshes would totally change the performance of the weapon in-game.

We are not saying this will not happen, but it would be a massive undertaking on our end to change the cosmetics when we’re devoted to making other changes at the moment. We’re just saying it's not going to happen anytime soon.  

Thanks Tenno!

P.S. I'm [DE]Marcus, I'm new here but I'll see you around! 


Sincerely, Forum n00b be gentle 

Very useful information! Sorta reminds me of how weapon structure was handled in Borderlands and its sequels. Would it be possible to make Zaws count for warframe weapon passives like Excalibur giving a speed and damage boost to melee of the Sword, Rapier, Dual Sword, or Nikana families?

Edit: Seems the team has already corrected the passives issue with this most recent update, excellent job!

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1 hour ago, [DE]Marcus said:

-snip-

Thanks for the answer Marcus, we've been waiting a really long time for this info :)

Does this mean that changing the mesh of non-Zaw weapons also changes how they perform..?

 

Why not keep the original solid Zaw mesh but just make it invisible and apply the new skin only visually without the new mesh being solid? Or lock-in every single stat once it is gilded, even those related to the mesh, so appearance is separated from stats?

I obviously don't know a lot about programming, but I do know that this isn't impossible and you guys will be able to fix it eventually, just please don't forget about this feature! :)

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4 hours ago, [DE]Marcus said:

 

Dear Tenno,

We are sorry that we have not been able to add skins to the Zaws - and we won't be able to anytime soon. This issue is... surprisingly complicated, so let's walk through it so we're all on the same page.

The system for re-working skins for Zaws is much more complicated than it might appear. The functionality of the Zaws is deeply connected to the Mesh of the weapon. The Mesh determines how the Zaws function, and to change the skin of the weapon would mean changing the functionality of each individual piece for the Zaw. Zaw's and Exodia both require the base assets, looking at the way Balance meshes and projectiles work means that changing the meshes would totally change the performance of the weapon in-game.

We are not saying this will not happen, but it would be a massive undertaking on our end to change the cosmetics when we’re devoted to making other changes at the moment. We’re just saying it's not going to happen anytime soon.  

Thanks Tenno!

P.S. I'm [DE]Marcus, I'm new here but I'll see you around! 


Sincerely, Forum n00b be gentle 

Thank you for the reply <3 it sounds more complicated than a simple model swap for sure and would probably require a rework of the zaw code to get it to function. A pity but it is what it is. At least we know the reason :) 

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15 hours ago, Cradicias said:

But this doesn't affect other weapons when using skins that change shape? I don't see that being the case.

This is beyond my understanding... I don't know the Evolution engine good enough. If I could see the code I might know exactly why.

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On 18/01/2018 at 6:33 PM, [DE]Marcus said:

 

Dear Tenno,

We are sorry that we have not been able to add skins to the Zaws - and we won't be able to anytime soon. This issue is... surprisingly complicated, so let's walk through it so we're all on the same page.

The system for re-working skins for Zaws is much more complicated than it might appear. The functionality of the Zaws is deeply connected to the Mesh of the weapon. The Mesh determines how the Zaws function, and to change the skin of the weapon would mean changing the functionality of each individual piece for the Zaw. Zaw's and Exodia both require the base assets, looking at the way Balance meshes and projectiles work means that changing the meshes would totally change the performance of the weapon in-game.

We are not saying this will not happen, but it would be a massive undertaking on our end to change the cosmetics when we’re devoted to making other changes at the moment. We’re just saying it's not going to happen anytime soon.  

Thanks Tenno!

P.S. I'm [DE]Marcus, I'm new here but I'll see you around! 


Sincerely, Forum n00b be gentle 

Ok, I've been crying all over the forums for aproximatly one month about this... At the moment it's one of the changes I want the most on the game...

Now that I understand the issue I'll calm down a little and just pray every night that you fix it.

The problem with that is that I'm here for so long... and to be honest I don't believe that you will change a problem like this after this answer, it felt like you just gave us an alibi to not fix it.

Regardless of my negative faith on this fix on a near future, I will keep hoping it happens.

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I don't want to come out rude but I'm studying computer science and if something like this requires an overhaul then it simply means it was badly implemented / hard-coded. Usually you can just match cosmetic types to weapon types and apply the skin using key values such as orientation and size. The movements and stance combos should be manipulative of these values. I fail to see how the mesh (visual polygons) has anything to do with the functional aspect of the Zaw, We used to have polearm zaws that reached like daggers that was patched without cosmetic issue, so it seems functionality isn't tied to the meshes. All said, can we see some news on this in the next Dev stream?

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might be  a necro hell probs is but with the Next Dev stream we need to ask Scott? i think for more data

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