Kogake Vs Orthos

[Darayas]

Hi everyone, I'd greatly appreciate your opinions on this weapons face-off.

I normally use the Kogake because I love punching enemies to death. At lower levels the damage it can put out is absolutely amazing, especially when coupled with the attack speed. However at higher levels I begin to struggle against multiple foes - it takes a lot of hits at close range to wear them down, and even the jump attack/ragdoll doesnt help much. When I perform the ground finisher it doesn't always finish off a higher-ranked foe, and in the time it takes me to perform the move I'm heavily exposed to other melee attacks or enemy fire.

I just bought an Orthos blueprint and I'd like to hear your take on the comparison. What are the advantages of the Orthos, and which is all-around a better weapon? Both, for me, have the 'cool' factor, and both kill in an amazingly satisfying way.

TL;DR: Kogake vs Orthos - what wins and why?

[X3Evanescence]

You are comparing a heavy weapon to Kogake? The result, is obvious. An answer will not be needed. Try it out yourself, you will understand.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Any heavy weapon (including reaper prime before it's buff) vs almost any other melee for damage, the heavy weapon wins provided you want to do charge attacks, which are what heavy weapons are all about.

Edited July 28, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[DB-Tenno]

Orthos is a high, if not top, tier weapon because of its incredible Charge Attack in terms of speed, damage, and range. It also deals triple damage to non-Ancient Infested.

In my opinion, you will always get your money's worth by installing a potato on the Orthos.

[Mythrex]

Kogake is for cc

[Fundance]

heavy weapons are typically more 'all purpose' than speciallised tools like the Kogake. As a kogake user, your job is to pick out and incapacitate high-priority targets  and keep them on the ground for as long as possible while dealing very respectable upfront damage. You can do this because ragdoll and knockdown are two separate states, allowing you to ragdoll an enemy while they're still getting up from a knockdown. In team fights you should be going after things like ancient disruptors/healers, heavy grineer units, and corpus techs/fusion moahs.

 

Heavy weapons will provide more burst damage to mobs of enemies, better overall crowd control thanks to the large shockwave/knockdown radius to jump attacks, but typically don't put out quite as much dps over a longer period of time than fast crit build weapons. A heavy weapon will serve you better, but your team will appreciate it if you use a Kogake smartly.

 

Kogake is also much more mobile than just about any heavy weapon thanks to the slide attack having an immediate ragdoll built into it, so the second you see a disruptor incoming you don't need to jump > slam attack like you would with a heavy weapon. You can just ninja flip towards it and send it flying, pummel it, then knock it down again while it's trying to get up by using a jump attack, then pummel it again.

[taiiat]

*reads thread title, ignores OP*

 

apples and oranges. 

 

/thread

[XandoCalrissian]

Kogake for knocking down almost anything, Orthos for killing stuff.

[SOUP.CAN]

Important fact of the orthos: its jump attack does not have a knockdown, only stagger

Edited July 28, 2013 by VDPrime

[Fundance]

Today I ragdolled Golem boss with a Kogake flip attack. He flew straight up into the air, hung there for a while, then came down again and landed. Everyone sort of stopped what they were doing, wondering where he'd gone. Kogake really is a very amusing weapon when used correctly.

[Dasmir]

Fun vs boring charge spam, you choise.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Fun vs boring charge spam, you choise.

killing stuff vs knocking one guy down.

[direcyphre]

Orthos is pretty much the ultimate Infestation killer due to it's range and number of enemies you can kill with a single charge (because enemies all run at you). Slap on the Fury, Killing Blow, Reflex Coil, and all your favorite damage mods and you'll be wading through countless enemies unopposed. The only real drawback is the lack of knockdown on the jump attack, but that balances it against Gram.

[Cr4p]

One of the great things about this game is that you can use pretty much anything modded up properly except for the highest difficultly areas where you are (now) forced to min/max to survive/succeed. So generally, I'd suggest going with whichever you find to be the most fun most of the time. I like both and often switch between them and the glaive.

[taiiat]

Today I ragdolled Golem boss with a Kogake flip attack. He flew straight up into the air, hung there for a while, then came down again and landed. Everyone sort of stopped what they were doing, wondering where he'd gone. Kogake really is a very amusing weapon when used correctly.

Kestrel man, Kestrel. 

knocking everything down, and / or throwing them across the room. 

Edited July 28, 2013 by taiiat

[cadesert]

Orthos. Hands down. No question.

[Dasmir]

Killing stuff vs Killing stuff

 

FTFY

[KvotheTheArcane1]

FTFY

eh kinda not really. Different forms, kogake taking MUCH longer to do so. But it has style I guess.

[Dasmir]

eh kinda not really. Different forms, kogake taking MUCH longer to do so. But it has style I guess.

 

Eh yah the orthos have awsome normal attack animations but as i said the armor is the problem as always and using a melee for only the charge attack is really meh for me.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Eh yah the orthos have awsome normal attack animations but as i said the armor is the problem as always and using a melee for only the charge attack is really meh for me.

yeah, kogake is the best (imo, maybe the fang ties with it) for normal attacks, but orthos beats those with the charge attack (for when you need to clear a lot of guys at once, not pick on one guy for 5 seconds or so)

[Eirshy]

You're comparing a utility weapon (Kogake) with a DPS weapon (Orthos)....

 

Yeeeeeah...

Edited July 29, 2013 by TheBlueJelly

[Dasmir]

You're comparing a utility weapon (Kogake) with a DPS weapon (Orthos)....

 

Yeeeeeah...

 

The only thing that make orthos a "DPS" weapons is the Annoying fav from DE to charge attacks mods...

[KvotheTheArcane1]

The only thing that make orthos a "DPS" weapons is the Annoying fav from DE to charge attacks mods...

...and the multitarget damage it can deal...

[fatpig84]

Orthos

Currently the best charged heavy DPS weapon.

Good range

Fastest charge time of any heavy.  

Good charge damage.

Slide damage and radius is surprisingly good.

Hits multiple targets. Gets bigger with reach.

x3 damage vs light infested

 

 

But...

It has no knock down from jump attacks.

Charged attacks only hit 270 degrees around users, so there will always be a blind spot.

 

 

Gram

Currently the best balanced heavy weapon.

Good charge damage.

2nd fastest charge time (loses to Orthos by 0.3 of a second ?). 

Has a jump knock down.

Good swing speed.  

360 degree charged attack.

Hits multiple targets. Gets bigger with reach.

x3 damage vs light infested

 

But...

Its normal attack damage sucks. 

The range is shorter than Orthos.

Jump knock down doesn't feel as powerful as it's heavier brothers like Scindo and Fragor.

 

 

Kogake

Good normal attack damage (blunt type ignores armor)

Fast attack. User is not slow down while punching also.

Ground finisher cannot be interrupted.

Plenty of knock downs and combos can be chained easily.

 

but.......

Charged attack only ragdolls.

Charged attack does not ignore armor.

Fist weapons have the shortest range.

No x3 bonus vs light infested.

Only affects 1 target at a time.

 

So your call.

Edited July 29, 2013 by fatpig84

[Eirshy]

The only thing that make orthos a "DPS" weapons is the Annoying fav from DE to charge attacks mods...

 

Because it clearly lacks long reach, 45 base on normals, no target count limit, high stun, or fast aspd, and its slide attack deffinitely doesn't do x3 in a huge 360* AoE.

 

Of course not.

 

 

Hell, I also definitely wasn't carrying Kilken defense runs with just normals before I got Killing Blow and Reflex Coil with just my Orthos. That definitely wouldn't work.

 

 

 

With buffed normals or buffed charges the Orthos will always be a DPS machine.

Edited July 29, 2013 by TheBlueJelly