Secondary melee, revised.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

I think mods have gone far enough. Its just time for better mechanics. Not that what im suggesting is how it has to work. These are just ideas.

Recently...or some time ago if your pc, Tenno got the ability to dual weild throwable weapons and pistols, usually the cyron and glaive in the you tube videos I've watched.... it looks like another easy way to get higher numbers when people show how it works with elemental combos.....

Also, it seems like a short cut between quick melee and full melee without actually reducing holster speed across the board. So its an easy way out while trying to bring something underperforming up to par, maybe... I mean, i think the answer is that in the time your throwing you glaive or what ever it is you chose, you need to pull out a pistol to shoot with, so DE just streamlined the process...nice if that was their reasoning. But whenever I use a glaive, i always have an urge to try and keep hitting things...i like hacking and slashing, and am about to give you my idea for secondary melee weapons.

See...here are some questionable things: why dont spears have the glaive/pistol mechanic too? Since they dont come back at all... Although its a primary. I guess a spear isnt a spear if its a gun hmmm...It was just my idea of how they would work, but i either pictured a chain connecting the spear to the character that allowed it to be pulled back mortal combat style or an infested version that grew the weapon back...off topic...And so to rehash, spears in warframe apparently all just count as primaries and are really only spear guns, but since they can be thrown, and therefore do kind of work as melee weapons, you kind of can carry two melee weapons. (No one really seems to throw them though). Also, condition overload is only at its best if you also have an elemental frame and elemental modded weapons...i would then think it would work best while just quick meleeing everything but thats another reason for me not to carry just a melee weapon in a mission...

My point i guess is that the thought and consideration that went into the decision to allow dual weilding (maybe that being stuck with no weapon after you had thrown your melee for about 1-3 seconds was too much of a penalty or something like that) could and should be applied elsewhere in this game.

Going with a melee weapon only gives you blocking, parrying, stance mods, charged attacks and energy channeling. I say only, because im being sarcastic and because besides the extra damage you might get from using your stance, i believe in most cases a primary or even a secondary weapon will do the job, and you can use quick melee for everything else. I mean thats a long list of things one weapon can do that really isnt doing much at all. Blocking, parrying, channeling, and charge attacks. No contribution to my survival whatsoever 9/10 of the time. In most cases, im sure there are certain builds on certain melee weapons that work, but your not going to get too much futher taking a pair of venka to a mission unless your 1. Invisible and/or 2. Invincible. But as it currently stands, other than some possible extra damage from a stance mod, the rest of that nonsense available by going with a melee alone just doesnt stand up to using a primary and simply quick meleeing everything with spin attacks. I really dont consider warframe to be a game with good melee. Opinion. Opinion formed this long post. But, if DE can come to terms with the fact that throwing the glaive doesnt actually do a whole lot, and therefore decide pistols can be used in tandem, im sure they can also work similar magic on the rest of the game.

More off topic: I discovered in fallout 4 one thing that really surprised me. Melee was useful over guns for something for a change in fallout as i previously knew it. I had never tried though, so it might have always been. It was fun though. 3 raiders on a bridge asking for a toll, denied, and 10 seconds later i was ripping a flaming sword out of the third guys collar bone/chest area. Similarly to how i feel with warframe currently, i never liked using melee weapons in fallout unless something was just simply too close to shoot, because it seemed on the surface geared more towards guns, moving the character was clunky, and you could do nothing but press the same button over and over and die to things that could hit harder. Warframe in a nut shell as it really is. And nothing really ever connects physically in warframe. But you FEEL it and SEE it when your melee connects with an enemy in Fallout or any game with better melee. That explained, the genuine surprise and satisfation recieved in using a sword over a assault rifle that shoots exploding bullets (precious, hard to find, exploding bullets) was really surprising, and was what i was missing. Its not like im asking for extra damage. You can wave your reticle over the screen and wipe three enemies out of existence in warframe no problem for any level found in any mission with the right mods, right set up, and right frame. The problem is if you arent completely annihilating everything with your melee, cheesing it, invisible, or invincible, your doing it wrong and your going to die. Parkour, melee stances, blocking and parrying be damned. Oh, crowd control, and therefore finishers that come with some, but not all (?) crowd control options help too but ill be talking about that.

Oh, and im not sure why melee weapons dont have a different reticle, or how that affects enemy hit boxes. Maybe it doesnt matter.

I guess the other reason you would go full melee in warframe is if you ran out of bullets, but with how the game works, if its even possible to run out of ammo (and being forced to run out of ammo would be the wrong direction to go), it would be the the best option to extract at that point in the mission if your hoping skill will keep you alive, and just generally in this point of warframes developement if you run out of ammo. Again unless your invisible or invincible. There are some pretty "good" crowd control options, but at that point using melee is more like whacking a bunch stationary dummies...inaros is the worst offender, not even different finisher animations, just...the same thing...over and over again. (crowd controls problem across the board). And if youve gotten to this point, just to clarify:

1). No im not talking about a specific weapon being bad. 2). No im not talking about a specific enemy level being too difficult. 3). Yes, im aware some weapons in combination with some frames work well without guns 4). No, im not asking for extra damage.

So...we all have our own classifications for weapons in our minds that dont really match up with others...what i might call niche, another might call trash, where yet another might main that weapon...

But there are some undeniable differences between certain weapon classes that just cant be overlooked...

Secondary melee

So, the obvious issues with the idea: duplicate mods in theory would be a thing, but need not be a problem or exist. Aside from needing seperate elememtal and crit mods, and the basic stat mods like stretch and what not, these weapons would share all the other mods. Damage mods can even be done away with, so you choose one or the other. 

Machetes, daggers, dual daggers, throwing weapons (glaive, etc) and kunai are on the table for this suggestion. Ill explain kunai while i go. (Ill explain here: while different blades are used for different things in real life, it still irks me that spira knives are longer and look more pratical to use in a fight than the heat dagger, possibly the smallest melee weapon in game, unless the skana dagger that comes with the dual skanas is smaller...so...explanation made, you could use them as daggers, possibly). 

Crit, but not damage mods. The next problem would be what would you do if you wanted to use a "secondary" melee weapon as your "primary" melee? You would just use that weapon. Im thinking a seperate loadout format that would have you switch between a gun based loadout and a melee based loadout might help, but in the end, I would be capable of carrying my dream loadout, a bow, a dark dagger, and a dark sword (shadow of mordor).

I guess the last big problem is proving why this is necessary...

Dual sword weapons mostly consist of swords and daggers. There are a few exceptions, like the dex dakra, but most are single swords and daggers. Now, this is a problem, best explained by the implementation of the dark split sword into this game. Now, you have the dark split sword as a weapon itself, not as the dagger or the sword seperately, and you must change it in your orbiter between a heavy sword or dual swords by using stance mods...the problem is (that this has to happen in orbiter and cannot be done in mission) that stance mods come with polarities, so you are dipping into the negative on all but one of those mods. Yes. You can and should forma your weapon several times. Is it the end all solution? For one, stance mods having polarities is questionable...but to be able to switch between all three (four) iterations of the dark split sword (or any future sword/dagger combo) mid mission would be nice. Its what i was hoping for.

There is a problem also for dual weapons that require two of the same weapon, is that if one of those weapons os leveled up, you lose that, as it simply becomes one new weapon. Here, those two weapons would have to still count as one, but they would count as the one weapon already leveled or with the highest level, the first one. You could choose to weild them as dual or single, and when weilding them as dual, the other would level. Essentially the same as now except you arent losing anything. Itd be like the dark split sword. Instead of needing to have a dagger, a sword, amd then both the dagger and sword built to have all the variations you would only need the sword and dagger.

For the rest, single swords, claws, gauntlets, sparring weapons, whips, etc, they would be the weapons you can use with the secondaries.

Double handed swords, tonfas, staves, and polearms would not allow dual weilding, the secondary melee would have to be used seperately..

The Link. In some dual weapon blueprints, like the akbronco prime specifically, theres a component called the link. I think this should be an actual thing that allows you to use weapons simultaneously, and will be what you install a mod on, like the stance mod that determines wether your dark split sword is heavy or dual, and this can be done in mission rather than only in orbiter.

This is not just a problem for melee weapons, nor does it come in one form. The akbronco again requires it be built of two seperate weapons and then a link be crafted. Now, most dual pistols dont do this, either because they were never released as seperate versions or they simply have different crafting requirements, but this link thing makes sense... It was never really a problem that you lost the one weapon, because whos really going to run around with one gun after you have two (garbage) guns, but why not change it anyway?

The rest.

·Blocking and parrying need some sort of mechanical over haul. Really, they should be more offensive options which would give them something over warframe powers or primary guns. For example, parrying would be any attack performed while blocking, or happen automatically/manually after being hit with a attack from a  open an enemy up to be grabbed, when heavy units do grounds slams, you kick their leg out from under them or gun butt them in the face, corpus and grineer effectively. Light units can always be grabbed. Hold them or allow you to throw them down. Sheild bashing enemies and gun butting them should not be exclusive to the grineer. Some enemies would always be open to finishers, or at least when parried or stunned by some ability.

·Stance mods could be more than just tapping the melee button repeatedly, because while using melee, the buttons for firing guns arent being used.... It would allow for any combo in the list to be pulled off with ease. Allowing the mod to be messed with manually while binding keys would help.

· Charge attacks. I would say warframe has heavy and light attacks. A slower attack then normal for extra damage. Some might say this is not technically true, but instead that they are "charged" attacks. I would atually prefer this if it were true. Charged attacks if named so would be actual charged attacks and deal whatever damage you have built up to that point. Though it doesnt help my argument that even with the slight differences between the two, i actually see charged attacks and heavy attacks as synonymous. So it can be called whatever you like. Right now you hold the melee button for a slower attack. You cannot release at any time, or the attack is cancelled. A heavy/ or charged attack in warframe (and many other games) can often be too slow, and thus need to be cancelled out of to avoid incoming damage, where it should allow you to still make a hit and then dodge out of the way. And differences aside, its implementation in this game could use some polishing.

·Energy channeling. My first proposed idea was for a second energy bar using the operators energy. The high risk reward argumemt apllies here too, its not unlimited easy mode. The reason i think a second energy bar is necessary is that some frames are at an advantage and some at a disadvantage when it comes to energy channeling, and the same goes for melee in general. The problem to me is when melee is more effective for certain frames than others. Giving a second form of energy just for channeling isnt the only answer, or the best one. But the way it currently works could change. Of course in its curremt iteration, its the normal, its how warframe has been and is, so its near impossible to prove to some that it needs to change, but thats what this post is for. Change. 

Hopefully i finished it this time.

TL;DR : More knives and pointy sticks in my loadout. Flashier stances. More mod variation.

Sorry if you read the whole thing and arent sure this is what I was talking about, but thats basically what im asking for. 

 

Edited November 5, 2017 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Edit

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Here it is.

@ShadowExodus

 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

@(PS4)NicolaiBM

 

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

I agree with almost nothing you've posted. I'm sorry to say, but melee is still by far the strongest weapon group in the game. If you're struggling to stay alive if you're not invisible or invincible, it's down to your build and choice of frame, bringing me back to my original point I was on about in the first place, warframe strengths.

Lets talk a bit about surviving on your frame of choice, first lets establish how to identify a frame that would be suitable for melee and what will help you survive. Armor will help you out, but you don't have scaling armor like the enemies and the entire game is by design harder the further you get in to a mission and you will need to take different choices. 1 being considering your frame of choice, what are the strong and the weak points of that frame. Lets take Mesa as the first example. The first clue that Mesa would not go well with melee style combat comes from her passive ability of gaining health from directly unequipping the melee weapon, the next clue would come from her ability set, specificly Ballistic Shield. Ballistic shield will reduce incoming damage by up to 95% (I believe that's the %, but I might be wrong), but those 95% is only for projectiles, it will NOT protect you from melee damage at all. A third indication as to what Mesa is focused on is, she have an ability that inherits the mods equipped on the secondary weapon she's paired up with. Lastly her armor values, she's not an armor powerhouse. The next example I'm going to bring up is Saryn. The first clue to her being a good choice for melee is her armor value, it's above average, by a large number in fact. The next clue for her to be a good choice for a melee frame would be her third ability "Toxic Lash", it by design directly affects your melee and only your melee weapon, you gain no benefit of using that with your primary or secondary weapon. Next up you need to consider how to regain lost health or shield, which ever you prefere. Does the frame of choice have a mechanic or an augment for that? In the case of Saryn that's a yes, there's an augment for Saryns Molt that allows her to regenerate health. In the case of Mesa, that's a no, lost health can only come from external sources. Sources of health can be varied, it can be health pads, medi-ray from your sentinel, abilities or even mods, which brings me neatly to my next point of interest.

Modding your warframe can be tricky and weapons sometimes even more so, luckily there's a great number of sources of information, anything from videos on youtube on how other people like to play frames to objective information found on the warframe wikia. Information about mods, stats, abilities and much more. Making your warframe deal damage and having a high damage output at first look seems fantastic, but as everything else in warframe, there's more to the story. Do you want to just take a cruice through low level missions and extract when your warframe and weapons fall off or do you want to go for hour long survivals and come out on top when going face to face with that pesky Bombard that will 1 shot you given the chance? First question you need to answer "Which mods is available to help me achieve my goals on the frames I've chosen?" Going for all out damage isn't always the best option, as you only have 8 mod slots, an aura and an exilus available to you, you have to make a specialiced build. That means having to give up on something to gain something else. Adding mods that'll increase your survivability is a must when you're trying to go for long runs, adding mods that'll "protect" you from pesky sources of small damage or negate most of their potential. Steel Fiber to up your armor is a fantastic option for this, all within reason of course, none the less a very potent option. Mods that will help you recover lost health, as you have chosen melee you're bound to take damage and you will have to have a way to recover from it, mods like Regenerative Molt for Saryn, Medi-ray for Sentinels, Healing Return and Life Steal for you melee weapon of choice are just a few of the many ways you can regenerate health. Avoiding situations we're you're going to loose health in the first place is always the best option, but playing on a frame designed for melee, that's not a realistic option, so how do you as a well informed player minimize loss of health and improve your gameplay allowing you to go further in to the survival? Mechanics will help you answer that question.

Looking deeper in to the mechanics of warframe, we're starting to uncover that it's not just a simple hack and slash game where you can turn off your brain and run around like a headless chicken and expect to do amazing, warframe have some very complex mechanics to it and understanding these mechanics and making choices in your gameplay accordingly is what sets a player apart from the rest. These mechanics determine how much damage your take, for example are you airborne, rolling or just running like said headless chicken? If you see a bombard rocket heading your way, the best course of action might not be running directly towards it and mitigating the damage with the good looks of your chosen warframe and a sexy smile, these are the scenarios you're often going to find yourself not really coming out on top. But how to avoid making the bombard making you look bad? Enter parkour 2.0, there's plenty of maneuvers to help you out, bulletjumps to quickly get behind cover and let the rockets explode on the other side of what ever you're using as cover before proceding to slap the bombard and his friends around for a bit is one option, if there's no cover to hide behind, rolling gives you 75% free damage mitigation and greatly increasing your chances of success. If that's not to your liking, there's mechanics in place to divert agro away from you, like radiation and abilities to make enemies attack each other or a decoy instead of you, once again Saryn and her Molt as an example. While cutting down some clueless butcher, you find a Bombard walking around the corner and taking aim at you, quickly pop your Molt to regain health while flying through the air, assuming you equipped Regenerative Molt in to your build, let your Molt take the hit for you and forcing the Bombard to having to find you again, aim at you and pull the trigger. It may very well just be enough time for you to get close enough to get the attack in and prevent him from attacking you a second time. Neatly bringing attention to another set of important mechanics in warframe, damage type. This is a huge chapter and I'll just make some quick references, but Heat make enemies throw their arms in the air instead of attacking, Blast will knock them to the ground and in the proccess open them up to ground finishers while Impact will stagger them, all will prevent them from attacking or making a counter play to you, thus giving you the benefit and coming out on top.

If you just want to run around like a headless chicken and not give any thought in to your gameplay, then I'm sorry to say, invisibility or low levels seems to be the only option for you. The mechanics in place aren't perfect, but they're not bad either, you just have to rethink your builds and choices and adjust according to your intentions with the mission you're playing.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

On 11/5/2017 at 10:45 AM, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

I agree with almost nothing you've posted. I'm sorry to say, but melee is still by far the strongest weapon group in the game. If you're struggling to stay alive if you're not invisible or invincible, it's down to your build and choice of frame, bringing me back to my original point I was on about in the first place, warframe strengths.

Lets talk a bit about surviving on your frame of choice, first lets establish how to identify a frame that would be suitable for melee and what will help you survive. Armor will help you out, but you don't have scaling armor like the enemies and the entire game is by design harder the further you get in to a mission and you will need to take different choices. 1 being considering your frame of choice, what are the strong and the weak points of that frame. Lets take Mesa as the first example. The first clue that Mesa would not go well with melee style combat comes from her passive ability of gaining health from directly unequipping the melee weapon, the next clue would come from her ability set, specificly Ballistic Shield. Ballistic shield will reduce incoming damage by up to 95% (I believe that's the %, but I might be wrong), but those 95% is only for projectiles, it will NOT protect you from melee damage at all. A third indication as to what Mesa is focused on is, she have an ability that inherits the mods equipped on the secondary weapon she's paired up with. Lastly her armor values, she's not an armor powerhouse. The next example I'm going to bring up is Saryn. The first clue to her being a good choice for melee is her armor value, it's above average, by a large number in fact. The next clue for her to be a good choice for a melee frame would be her third ability "Toxic Lash", it by design directly affects your melee and only your melee weapon, you gain no benefit of using that with your primary or secondary weapon. Next up you need to consider how to regain lost health or shield, which ever you prefere. Does the frame of choice have a mechanic or an augment for that? In the case of Saryn that's a yes, there's an augment for Saryns Molt that allows her to regenerate health. In the case of Mesa, that's a no, lost health can only come from external sources. Sources of health can be varied, it can be health pads, medi-ray from your sentinel, abilities or even mods, which brings me neatly to my next point of interest.

Modding your warframe can be tricky and weapons sometimes even more so, luckily there's a great number of sources of information, anything from videos on youtube on how other people like to play frames to objective information found on the warframe wikia. Information about mods, stats, abilities and much more. Making your warframe deal damage and having a high damage output at first look seems fantastic, but as everything else in warframe, there's more to the story. Do you want to just take a cruice through low level missions and extract when your warframe and weapons fall off or do you want to go for hour long survivals and come out on top when going face to face with that pesky Bombard that will 1 shot you given the chance? First question you need to answer "Which mods is available to help me achieve my goals on the frames I've chosen?" Going for all out damage isn't always the best option, as you only have 8 mod slots, an aura and an exilus available to you, you have to make a specialiced build. That means having to give up on something to gain something else. Adding mods that'll increase your survivability is a must when you're trying to go for long runs, adding mods that'll "protect" you from pesky sources of small damage or negate most of their potential. Steel Fiber to up your armor is a fantastic option for this, all within reason of course, none the less a very potent option. Mods that will help you recover lost health, as you have chosen melee you're bound to take damage and you will have to have a way to recover from it, mods like Regenerative Molt for Saryn, Medi-ray for Sentinels, Healing Return and Life Steal for you melee weapon of choice are just a few of the many ways you can regenerate health. Avoiding situations we're you're going to loose health in the first place is always the best option, but playing on a frame designed for melee, that's not a realistic option, so how do you as a well informed player minimize loss of health and improve your gameplay allowing you to go further in to the survival? Mechanics will help you answer that question.

Looking deeper in to the mechanics of warframe, we're starting to uncover that it's not just a simple hack and slash game where you can turn off your brain and run around like a headless chicken and expect to do amazing, warframe have some very complex mechanics to it and understanding these mechanics and making choices in your gameplay accordingly is what sets a player apart from the rest. These mechanics determine how much damage your take, for example are you airborne, rolling or just running like said headless chicken? If you see a bombard rocket heading your way, the best course of action might not be running directly towards it and mitigating the damage with the good looks of your chosen warframe and a sexy smile, these are the scenarios you're often going to find yourself not really coming out on top. But how to avoid making the bombard making you look bad? Enter parkour 2.0, there's plenty of maneuvers to help you out, bulletjumps to quickly get behind cover and let the rockets explode on the other side of what ever you're using as cover before proceding to slap the bombard and his friends around for a bit is one option, if there's no cover to hide behind, rolling gives you 75% free damage mitigation and greatly increasing your chances of success. If that's not to your liking, there's mechanics in place to divert agro away from you, like radiation and abilities to make enemies attack each other or a decoy instead of you, once again Saryn and her Molt as an example. While cutting down some clueless butcher, you find a Bombard walking around the corner and taking aim at you, quickly pop your Molt to regain health while flying through the air, assuming you equipped Regenerative Molt in to your build, let your Molt take the hit for you and forcing the Bombard to having to find you again, aim at you and pull the trigger. It may very well just be enough time for you to get close enough to get the attack in and prevent him from attacking you a second time. Neatly bringing attention to another set of important mechanics in warframe, damage type. This is a huge chapter and I'll just make some quick references, but Heat make enemies throw their arms in the air instead of attacking, Blast will knock them to the ground and in the proccess open them up to ground finishers while Impact will stagger them, all will prevent them from attacking or making a counter play to you, thus giving you the benefit and coming out on top.

If you just want to run around like a headless chicken and not give any thought in to your gameplay, then I'm sorry to say, invisibility or low levels seems to be the only option for you. The mechanics in place aren't perfect, but they're not bad either, you just have to rethink your builds and choices and adjust according to your intentions with the mission you're playing.

I tried to take this seriously, and its alot to read through, but im not sure what your going for, what the tone of your post is really conveying, or if you even read enough of what i posted to decide that you cant agree with it.

Look at this post as the trailer for tombs as the sentients. Thats what im asking for, plus a little variation of builds, and better mechanics. But the headless chicken part lets me know you dont understand what im talking about. I would say current game play is headless chicken antics. You made it sound like modding and picking the best warframe is that difficult. For instance, no, Saryn is not a good option for melee because of toxic lash. That ability performs best for spreading procs and spores (mainly just spores), adding an extra damage type for condition overload, and giving small amounts of energy. It works best with a maximum range weapon, its going to work well with orthos and be trash tier with the venka. Its flat damage boost is negligible. Mesa is a great choice for melee, because of the bullet deflecting magic mod, amd if you are actually dying from gettimg hit by a melee enemy in warframe, you are doing something wrong.

There is no cover in this game i trust to keep me safe from aoe explosions, i cant believe you just said that.

Melee is the one thing in this game that has not changed one bit in over 2 years. I dont think they have done anything mechanically to it since the stances. Archwing has had more effort put into it. But hey, it must just be my builds and my inability to correctly decide what frames can be used for what. Cheesing is the easiest way to do anything in this game, so instead of putting effort and wasting time on looking at worthless mods, ill just run cheese builds amd play that headless chicken warframe we have all grown used to and love. Invisibility or invincibilty for the win.

 

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

12 hours ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

I tried to take this seriously, and its alot to read through, but im not sure what your going for, what the tone of your post is really conveying, or if you even read enough of what i posted to decide that you cant agree with it.

Look at this post as the trailer for tombs as the sentients. Thats what im asking for, plus a little variation of builds, and better mechanics. But the headless chicken part lets me know you dont understand what im talking about. I would say current game play is headless chicken antics. You made it sound like modding and picking the best warframe is that difficult. For instance, no, Saryn is not a good option for melee because of toxic lash. That ability performs best for spreading procs and spores (mainly just spores), adding an extra damage type for condition overload, and giving small amounts of energy. It works best with a maximum range weapon, its going to work well with orthos and be trash tier with the venka. Its flat damage boost is negligible. Mesa is a great choice for melee, because of the bullet deflecting magic mod, amd if you are actually dying from gettimg hit by a melee enemy in warframe, you are doing something wrong.

There is no cover in this game i trust to keep me safe from aoe explosions, i cant believe you just said that.

Melee is the one thing in this game that has not changed one bit in over 2 years. I dont think they have done anything mechanically to it since the stances. Archwing has had more effort put into it. But hey, it must just be my builds and my inability to correctly decide what frames can be used for what. Cheesing is the easiest way to do anything in this game, so instead of putting effort and wasting time on looking at worthless mods, ill just run cheese builds amd play that headless chicken warframe we have all grown used to and love. Invisibility or invincibilty for the win.

 

Tried to make a serious point, going melee with no cheeses requires a certain play style and to utilize mechanics to keep yourself alive. I agree with you on the cheesing mechanics in the game, they shouldn't be there in the first place and removed as quick as they're found. Primary and secondary have had equally little change and they don't even have a combo to them, with the exception of snipers.

The changes/fixes warframe needs is in the core mechanics, like infested and corpus having armor at all, like armor scaling and bandaid patches like corrosive projection and zenurik energy regen. If the core mechanics of the game gets fixed properly and bandaids gets removed, I'm sure you'll find warframe a much better game.

Then what ever issues the game have at that point, that's a problem to tackle then, but when the core mechanics of the game is making cheesy mechanics like invisibility and bandaids like cp the most viable option, making anything else will not actually solve the issues, just add more cheeses and bandaids.

[2035]

The flow and transistions between weapons has been a long topic especialy in conclave.

Javlok and many weapons have poor rhythem and rhyme with even some still feeling terrable when tailored to.

 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

On 11/13/2017 at 8:22 AM, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

Tried to make a serious point, going melee with no cheeses requires a certain play style and to utilize mechanics to keep yourself alive. I agree with you on the cheesing mechanics in the game, they shouldn't be there in the first place and removed as quick as they're found. Primary and secondary have had equally little change and they don't even have a combo to them, with the exception of snipers.

The changes/fixes warframe needs is in the core mechanics, like infested and corpus having armor at all, like armor scaling and bandaid patches like corrosive projection and zenurik energy regen. If the core mechanics of the game gets fixed properly and bandaids gets removed, I'm sure you'll find warframe a much better game.

Then what ever issues the game have at that point, that's a problem to tackle then, but when the core mechanics of the game is making cheesy mechanics like invisibility and bandaids like cp the most viable option, making anything else will not actually solve the issues, just add more cheeses and bandaids.

Not to keep beating the horse, but i started post with this "I think mods have gone far enough. Its just time for better mechanics. Not that what im suggesting is how it has to work. These are just ideas."

 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

On 11/13/2017 at 8:22 AM, (PS4)NicolaiBM said:

Tried to make a serious point, going melee with no cheeses requires a certain play style and to utilize mechanics to keep yourself alive. I agree with you on the cheesing mechanics in the game, they shouldn't be there in the first place and removed as quick as they're found. Primary and secondary have had equally little change and they don't even have a combo to them, with the exception of snipers.

The changes/fixes warframe needs is in the core mechanics, like infested and corpus having armor at all, like armor scaling and bandaid patches like corrosive projection and zenurik energy regen. If the core mechanics of the game gets fixed properly and bandaids gets removed, I'm sure you'll find warframe a much better game.

Then what ever issues the game have at that point, that's a problem to tackle then, but when the core mechanics of the game is making cheesy mechanics like invisibility and bandaids like cp the most viable option, making anything else will not actually solve the issues, just add more cheeses and bandaids.

Not to keep beating the horse, but i started post with this "I think mods have gone far enough. Its just time for better mechanics. Not that what im suggesting is how it has to work. These are just ideas."

 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

18 hours ago, Cicadeus said:

The flow and transistions between weapons has been a long topic especialy in conclave.

Javlok and many weapons have poor rhythem and rhyme with even some still feeling terrable when tailored to.

 

Like the glaive and pistol? I think its pointless in this game to add in a weapon that can be thrown (speargun) but wont come back....thats a penalty to keep the weapon from being overpowered? I pictured it as at least coming back on a timer somehow like the glaive.

[(PSN)NicolaiBM]

On November 14, 2017 at 4:40 PM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Not to keep beating the horse, but i started post with this "I think mods have gone far enough. Its just time for better mechanics. Not that what im suggesting is how it has to work. These are just ideas."

 

The mechanics for melee is as I see them quite fine, it's the mechanics of damage 2.0 that's the issue to begin with and how the different factions are all essentially the same, because of armor being added to all factions. All factions you go with corrosive on guns or corrosive projection, melee can vary, but that's because of the damage multiplier and how it affects slash/gas. Remove Corrosive Projection, make only grineer units armored, make shields tougher and make ancient healers actual healers is my suggestion to this.