Excalibur's 3

[FLyingGander]

Hi DE i was hoping you could tweak excal's 3 to make it useful. And so it looks like this picture.I just think it would look so cool.

[InDueTime-EN-]

It is useful. Just over shadowed by the rest of his kit. 

[shyguyk]

I would personally make it affected by the combo multiplier. Would work well with his melee theme and his surging dash augment.

[Vlada91]

Yes he need a rework on 3....

[TKDancer]

2 hours ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

It is useful. Just over shadowed by the rest of his kit. 

up until... level 50 or so? then its just a waste of energy unless u are running some over complicated set-up

 

it should just.. be balanced around using melee mods like the rest of his kit, and the combo multiplier

[InDueTime-EN-]

45 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

up until... level 50 or so? then its just a waste of energy unless u are running some over complicated set-up

 

it should just.. be balanced around using melee mods like the rest of his kit, and the combo multiplier

There are quite a lot of other abilities that don't scale damage wise. With the augment though this helps increase the DPS of other abilities and the javelin has a slight stun on hit, although you're better of using radial blind. Not everything has to scale damage wise, at the end game, most abilities switch from DPS to CC. 

[TKDancer]

9 hours ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

most abilities switch from DPS to CC. 

thats bad design m8 lmao, all abilities should 100% scale in some way or another

 

and if ur idea of CC is a half a second stun, when excal already has a blind that costs less energy and lasts for much longer, idk what to tell ya

[xXDeadsinxX]

Why does it need a change though? Excalibur's 3 is perfectly fine the way it is.

[TKDancer]

9 minutes ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

Why does it need a change though? Excalibur's 3 is perfectly fine the way it is.

if u think "stops being useful after a certain level" is perfectly fine, well :^/

[EpicBred]

Yes, his current 3 is near entirely useless. My suggestion has always been removing the damage and attaching "strings" to the javelins, and have excal pull every enemy hit into melee range

[Lost_Cartographer]

6 hours ago, TKDancer said:

thats bad design m8 lmao, all abilities should 100% scale in some way or another

Nah, that defeats the purpose of enemies endlessly scaling.  The whole point is to overwhelm and defeat the player eventually, but even DE forgot that simple fact somewhere along the way at points and now we have a hodge podge of frames where some can scale well and some don't.

[TKDancer]

24 minutes ago, Littleman88 said:

Nah, that defeats the purpose of enemies endlessly scaling.  The whole point is to overwhelm and defeat the player eventually, but even DE forgot that simple fact somewhere along the way at points and now we have a hodge podge of frames where some can scale well and some don't.

considering our survivability is SUPER limited on non tank frames and scaling with mods =/=infinite dmg, bad argument

[Lost_Cartographer]

4 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

considering our survivability is SUPER limited on non tank frames and scaling with mods =/=infinite dmg, bad argument

Not bad argument.  Enemy scaling means eventually enemy > warframe.  Period.

It's common logic used in games since time immemorial, or at least since the quarter fed arcade machine has been around.  The player character never improves, but the threats just keep getting faster, tougher, stronger, until nothing the player can do can prevent the inevitable.

If you can't grasp this simple concept, stay out of endless.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Littleman88

[TKDancer]

2 minutes ago, Littleman88 said:

Not bad argument.  Enemy scaling means eventually enemy > warframe.  Period.

It's common logic used in games since time immemorial, or at least since the quarter fed arcade machine has been around.  The player character never improves, but the threats just keep getting faster, tougher, stronger, until nothing the player does prevents the inevitable.

If you can't grasp this simple concept, stay out of endless.

i dont do endless, cause i find it boring, but radial javelin becomes useless around sortie-1 level enemies

 

and even then we have plenty of abilities that do scale, some scaling infinitely, others with mods, such as excals 1 and 4, others with consistent effects, such as excals 2, so no reason for some abilities that are meant to do damage not to scale and become useless

 

also im pretty sure u arent running mk1-bratons with level 5 serration on endless, nah u are running weapons/frames that can actually kill at those levels, something radial javelin cant even dream of

 

bad argument

 

 

[Lost_Cartographer]

22 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

i dont do endless, cause i find it boring, but radial javelin becomes useless around sortie-1 level enemies

 

and even then we have plenty of abilities that do scale, some scaling infinitely, others with mods, such as excals 1 and 4, others with consistent effects, such as excals 2, so no reason for some abilities that are meant to do damage not to scale and become useless

 

also im pretty sure u arent running mk1-bratons with level 5 serration on endless, nah u are running weapons/frames that can actually kill at those levels, something radial javelin cant even dream of

 

bad argument

 

 

Still not a bad argument.  It's a fact that not every ability scales well let alone infinitely, and this isn't really a flaw, and regardless we're not really meant to scale infinitely with an infinitely scaling enemy anyway.

So either use an ability that scales or use another frame.

Ignorance to the intent of infinite scaling will ALWAYS amount to a bad argument.

[TKDancer]

2 minutes ago, Littleman88 said:

Still not a bad argument.  It's a fact that not every ability scales well let alone infinitely, and this isn't really a flaw, and regardless we're not really meant to scale infinitely with an infinitely scaling enemy anyway.

So either use an ability that scales or use another frame.

Ignorance to the intent of infinite scaling will ALWAYS amount to a bad argument.

so the damaging ability shouldnt deal damage cause..... what

 

yes it is a flaw, a ton of abilities in this game that exist to deal dmg have no scaling, rendering them useless after a certain level, this isnt even about going into endless, many damaging abilities start to become useless still in the star-chart

 

and then we have abilities that scale with weapon mods or just absorb and multiply dmg, then we have our weapons that can deal hundreds of thousands of dmg per shot, and melee weapons that can achieve loads of multipliers(crit, condition overload, melee combo), so YES we ARE meant to be able to fight high level enemies, most frames wont scale infinitely, but we are meant to put up a fight, so there is zero freaking reason we should have abilities that dish out 200 dmg but actually deal 1 cause armor

 

the fact that u are telling me to use another ability/frame is you admitting that there is something wrong, but u for some reason dont want to say it

 

and again, i DIDNT ASK FOR INFINITE DAMAGE, i didnt ask for his 3 to kill everything in a 50 meter radius regardless of level in a single cast

18 hours ago, TKDancer said:

it should just.. be balanced around using melee mods like the rest of his kit, and the combo multiplier

what ^THAT^ means is changing its base damage and maybe the amount of javelins/range to prevent it from being a room nuke so as to make its damage worth a damn

 

god u make zero sense

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

59 minutes ago, Littleman88 said:

Not bad argument.  Enemy scaling means eventually enemy > warframe.  Period.

If you can't grasp this simple concept, stay out of endless.

^ He's absolutely correct.

54 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

i dont do endless, cause i find it boring, but radial javelin becomes useless around sortie-1 level enemies

also im pretty sure u arent running mk1-bratons with level 5 serration on endless, nah u are running weapons/frames that can actually kill at those levels, something radial javelin cant even dream of

You can't even reply to this since you said yourself that you don't do Survivals. You can't possibly grasp the concept. And Radial Javelin doesn't scale after Sortie 1? That's over-exaggeration, seriously. I was able to kill them with a single Radial Javelin until I had to sell my Excalibur. Your MK1 Braton argument is irrelevant to the conversation.

23 minutes ago, TKDancer said:

god u make zero sense

No, he's actually perfectly fine sir. We are aware that Radial Javelin doesn't do the best with scaling, but it's a fun ability, and it does it's job as of now. Though it does require a few tweaks to make it perfect, he's just explaining that you're really downplaying the capabilities. Most of the in-game activities don't go past level 50 regardless. 

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

21 hours ago, FLyingGander said:

Hi DE i was hoping you could tweak excal's 3 to make it useful. And so it looks like this picture.I just think it would look so cool.

What exactly do you mean by useful?

21 hours ago, FLyingGander said:

What is this? Radial Javelin doesn't need visual changes regardless, it looks pretty cool as is.

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, Littleman88 said:

Not bad argument.  Enemy scaling means eventually enemy > warframe.  Period.

It's common logic used in games since time immemorial, or at least since the quarter fed arcade machine has been around.  The player character never improves, but the threats just keep getting faster, tougher, stronger, until nothing the player can do can prevent the inevitable.

If you can't grasp this simple concept, stay out of endless.

Endless Mode in Warframe = Tetris

 

Edited November 8, 2017 by Nazrethim

[Doomsknightmare]

His 3 is useless in high level and even the augment Furious Javelin is not as good as Surging Dash.

[EpicBred]

5 hours ago, TKDancer said:

bad argument

Just because you think you have a better argument doesnt mean his is bad (even though its a lot better than yours, but i wont say that out loud).

Littleman is right, were not supposed to scale endlessly. The problem is DEs inconsistency, new abilities and weapons can carry us alot further into high enemy levels than old ones (some of them scale infinitely in damage), and it keeps getting worse.

There should be some scaling with all damage abilities, but they shouldnt scale as fast as enemies OR just make the defense scaling of enemies less ridiculous. Then they wouldnt be completely overpowered and boring in lower levels and still relevant later. This especially applies to radial nukes. They would have to balance this pretty well, which is why DE wont do it.

Im still for replacing radial javelin.

[shut]

Back in late Update 16, DE promised that Excal's rework would have Javelin changed to not overlap with Blind's role. I'm still waiting for them to actually do this.

 

Javelin is godawful. The instant it stops dealing significant damage (which is pretty darn early), it has precisely two uses:
1. Briefly stun enemies, if you desperately need to stun things while Blind is on its 5-second cooldown
2. Slightly increase your damage if you have Furious Javelin

Both of which are not enough to warrant an entire ability slot.

 

I play Excalibur almost exclusively. I've used Radial Javelin exactly two times since PoE hit, and both were because I pressed the button by accident. Javelin needs to change.

[(PSN)AllEyezOnThee]

Need to scrap radial javelin for a defensive skill - you reference FFXV, I would say the skill noctis uses in the first trailer with swords floating around him / deflecting bullets is a good defensive move for Excalibur.

[FLyingGander]

that would actually be really cool, it would be like garas shattered glass ability

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Yes. Radial Javelin seriously needs a rework.

Slash Dash: Mobility

Radial Blind: Crowd Control

Exalted Blade: Damage

Radial Javelin should be doing Defense not Damage or Crowd Control. Not that it is doing it well in any aspect.