Focus is still 'meh' at the best

[Wyrmius_Prime]

I don't think the system improved at all. Sure the amps for operators deal more damage and the other abilities got some new features to them as well, but the only point to really use operators outside of purely void dashing into Kuva Guardians is to kill Eidolons. And why do you kill Eidolons? To improve your operator's weaponry. And why would you want to do that? To kill Eidolons faster. That's it. Against regular enemies the operators struggle because of the ridiculous armor scaling. Even the strongest of amps struggle against mid level 40 Grineer without buffs from other Warframes (note, not other operators).

Gaining focus is still bad. It's slow as all hell without cheesing with either Quake Banshee or ''Spider'' Equinox. Sure, the focus cap got increased from 100k to 250k (multiplied by 2.5x), but everything became WAAAAYYYY MORE expensive than that by a mile. It takes between 4 days + 1 Teralyst kill and 1 day + 31 Teralyst kills just to get the 1 mil focus unlocks.

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

....they talked about improving how you gain focus in devstream 100.

[Omega-Shadowblade]

Have you tried operators out against the corpus and infested who have 0 armor?

I personally mix my operator in with those groups cause my zenurik chain lightning actually does a good chunk of aoe damage to em and my shots can actually do decently.

[Nez-Kal]

Focus 2.0's problem is simply this:

It wants to be "What's after MR 30?" End-game level Grind and Reward......It's got the Grind part down, but not the Reward.
 

But if it gives the Reward, then it's unfair for Newer Players/ Pre-Second Dream + War Within Players.

 

But if it removes the Grind it's no longer "What's after MR 30" End-Game content.

 

It wants its Cake, and to eat it too. But it can't. So it's in a Tug-of-War with itself, and is an unbalanced mess of "Inbetween-ness".

 

EDIT just in case: I love Operators, and I want to see them grow and become better.....but for the most part, Focus 2.0 is just too painful sometimes to deal with. (I deal with it anyway, when I feel up to it, so to better my little star-child....but those moments are starting to come more rarely, and I'm starting to feel that I should just be content with my +30% running Speed on all Schools and stop trying past that for the time being)

Edited November 10, 2017 by Tangent-Valley

[Kyryo]

Operators should be used for completely differenti things, right now they have no purpose other than charging a little of energy...

 

too bad, i really like operators (One of the few, looks like)

[RAZORLIGHT]

Focus system is too operator focused

why are they even forcing us to play with that clumsy and weak operator while playing with the srames is with what this game makes fun?
 

edit: yeah... 

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by RAZORLIGHT

[Azrael]

Just stopping in to point out that with Mind Sprint and Void Flow the operator is now by far the fastest way to move outside of archwing. No parkour maneuver even approaches how fast an operator can move around.

Furthermore there are plenty of things the operator can do that enhance gameplay and provide additional options. Operators can jump higher and make getting to some places much easier than parkour. Operators also have powerful CC abilities and can weaken enemies and make them take more damage or open them to finishers. Operators can make allies invisible while remaining invincible, and can res allies while invincible, making the operator an easy way to res people when a warframe would die, such as while fighting a juggernaut.

So I don't know about you, but my operator has become an integral part of my gameplay, especially in the plains but also elsewhere.

[Anthraxicus]

I use operator for two things only. Energy regen and parkour 2.5, to cover greater distances, reach higher altitudes and make insane turns mid-air. That is about it. And I would gladly go back to not using my operator for energy regen.

[Emolition]

With the little investment I made so far its seem decent just waiting for the 2.5 changes to see if it will improve. Right now my operator is more tanky then alot of the dps frames (that I dont play for they to squishy) sitting at 1125 health and little over 300 armor. Can allso one shot lvl 100 corpus guys in sortie so I like it.

[RAZORLIGHT]

6 minutes ago, Emolition said:

With the little investment I made so far its seem decent just waiting for the 2.5 changes to see if it will improve. Right now my operator is more tanky then alot of the dps frames (that I dont play for they to squishy) sitting at 1125 health and little over 300 armor. Can allso one shot lvl 100 corpus guys in sortie so I like it.

i somehow cant believe what you wrote...

Proof please

[Emolition]

Just now, RAZORLIGHT said:

i somehow cant believe what you wrote...

Proof please

What part?  the health and armor is from  vazarin waybound and I use unari focus sitting at 212% armor atm then i got 2 arcanes. One gives +200 health  and the othere +100 armor.

For the corpus one shot I did yesterday using the tier 1 amp opticor fire.

[Duduminador]

I hate mining for Nyth... that said, I built 2 arcanes for the Operator's hood and chest cloth (a small health regen to the frame while in Operator mode and a chance to heal the frame every time I enter it).

The result is quite impressive, they're not massive heals but I can now do stuff like heal the frame in situations where its health drops so low (to 2) that trying to leave would kill both the the Operator and the frame. I can simply do that try fighting a little while as Operator, or just hide in the void, in situations where the frame's death was imminent. And when I return to the frame, Tadah! it has some health back and I can try my way around another time.

Focus farm is out of the table for me due to time constrains, but I can picture an Operator able to fight or just hide at the void for longer periods of time would really boost my survivability with any frame.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Duduminador

[Wyrmius_Prime]

21 minutes ago, Azrael said:

Furthermore there are plenty of things the operator can do that enhance gameplay and provide additional options. Operators can jump higher and make getting to some places much easier than parkour. Operators also have powerful CC abilities and can weaken enemies and make them take more damage or open them to finishers. Operators can make allies invisible while remaining invincible, and can res allies while invincible, making the operator an easy way to res people when a warframe would die, such as while fighting a juggernaut.

So I don't know about you, but my operator has become an integral part of my gameplay, especially in the plains but also elsewhere.

There isn't a single mission difficult enough where any of that is necessary unless you like to go for 10 hours long survival missions on daily basis. The only reward is the option to overcomplicate your gameplay for little to no return. Why would I grind weeks for that if I can deal with everything the game throws at me already just fine? It's newer players who could use the help but they have absolutely no chance of unlocking any of that stuff.

40 minutes ago, mac10smg-ToaOfGreen said:

....they talked about improving how you gain focus in devstream 100.

I prefer not to watch those nor any YouTube content regarding dev streams to not to spoil myself about future stuff. I like surprises. I'm pretty sure that doesn't exclude me from giving feedback on the game.

[Terrornaut]

1 hour ago, Tangent-Valley said:

EDIT just in case: I love Operators, and I want to see them grow and become better.....but for the most part, Focus 2.0 is just too painful sometimes to deal with. (I deal with it anyway, when I feel up to it, so to better my little star-child....but those moments are starting to come more rarely, and I'm starting to feel that I should just be content with my +30% running Speed on all Schools and stop trying past that for the time being)

The grind is kind of crazy.  I've never really considered afk farming for a game or remote logging in at work to passively afk farm for something because even with boosters, you have to play in very specific ways to get any meaningful amount of focus (unless you leech, and I hate that mess).

1 hour ago, Azrael said:

Just stopping in to point out that with Mind Sprint and Void Flow the operator is now by far the fastest way to move outside of archwing. No parkour maneuver even approaches how fast an operator can move around.

Furthermore there are plenty of things the operator can do that enhance gameplay and provide additional options. Operators can jump higher and make getting to some places much easier than parkour. Operators also have powerful CC abilities and can weaken enemies and make them take more damage or open them to finishers. Operators can make allies invisible while remaining invincible, and can res allies while invincible, making the operator an easy way to res people when a warframe would die, such as while fighting a juggernaut.

So I don't know about you, but my operator has become an integral part of my gameplay, especially in the plains but also elsewhere.

This is definitely it.
The focus trees are much more useful this time around.  Unairu will help me circumvent one of Ember's weaknesses for example (even though with some status weapons I can get around that at high levels) by letting me strip about 75% armor in under 2 sec with 2 dashes, neverminding CP or corrosive status procs.  That is a massive boost to damage, while also knocking those dangerous enemies that will actually take me a second or 2 to kill, and I'll be immune for a moment.

Or Naramon will let me actually try channeling builds and go back to channel/qt rage tanking on squishies effectively...though...damn that channeling efficiency cap -_-

Vaz's shielding I don't know about in detail but could potentially be pretty solid.

We all know about Zen. Though its invis and dash stuff also looks effective.

The thing is, in normal gameplay, I don't know what beefed up operator damage looks like, but constantly swapping in and out of an operator as basically a 5th power that takes 1-2 sec to use for complete payoff...its fairly significant.  Which is why I'm annoyed at the major time gates to acquiring focus.  Guess I need to start hunting teras, but, then I can't do other stuff. Time, time, time.

[Azrael]

1 hour ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

There isn't a single mission difficult enough where any of that is necessary unless you like to go for 10 hours long survival missions on daily basis.

Actually the fact that I can res while invisible and invincible has saved me many times in normal gameplay. The juggernaut is one example I already gave, but here's another. We had a sortie a bit ago that included a defense mission in the Kuva Fortress. The defense target kept walking around in trapped areas and dying, and we had to revive him while tanking all the toxin/electricity/turret fire/eximus blasts in the area. Reviving him as operator was far easier than doing so as a warframe, and allowed us to win that mission on the first try despite using squishier frames. It's a very useful tool. It especially helped that I could Void Dash in and stay invisible the whole time, thanks to my increased energy from the Zenurik tree.

 

1 hour ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

Why would I grind weeks for that if I can deal with everything the game throws at me already just fine?

Because the focus system offers new ways of solving problems that are fun and new? You don't have to unlock them, nobody's forcing you to. Some of us enjoy them and want to use them, if you don't that's fine. Are you saying you'd be happier if they made it so you needed focus to progress? If they made those abilities indispensable? It seems like you're complaining about the fact that the system is optional, which is a little strange.

[Ryko]

i do not farm focus or build my operator school anymore. i simply do not care for that aspect of the game... t3 amp is built, chroma and vectis is formad, can rek eidolon. so why even bother with the operator anymore? or am i missing out on some amazing content?

[Azrael]

3 minutes ago, Terrornaut said:

Which is why I'm annoyed at the major time gates to acquiring focus.  Guess I need to start hunting teras, but, then I can't do other stuff. Time, time, time.

Yeah, they actually admitted it was a little crazy, and said they were looking to address it. I agree the grind is insane, I'm looking forward to the promised changes.

 

1 hour ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

I prefer not to watch those nor any YouTube content regarding dev streams to not to spoil myself about future stuff. I like surprises. I'm pretty sure that doesn't exclude me from giving feedback on the game.

Of course it doesn't exclude you, and there's nothing wrong with avoiding devstreams. But since you're going to do that, you're going to have to accept being wrong about something from time to time, or not being aware of something that relates to what you're saying. In this case, the devs have already said they're going to reduce the grind a little, so that's something you should know since you talked about that in the OP.

[RAZORLIGHT]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Emolition:

What part?  the health and armor is from  vazarin waybound and I use unari focus sitting at 212% armor atm then i got 2 arcanes. One gives +200 health  and the othere +100 armor.

For the corpus one shot I did yesterday using the tier 1 amp opticor fire.

the lvl 100 thing, but if it was just a corpus crewman without any armor...

[Hellmaker2004]

What is really funny now is how everyone keep saying how weak and fragile the kid is.

And yet once you unlock the Arcanes and the waybound you can have around 2000 Effective hit points. Sure it take a while but it is going to be really funny when some of the fragile frames are less durable than the kids.

 

Wonder if we are going to see people play in kid form, oh wait the damage is still really bad compared to any of the frames, oh well.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Hellmaker2004

[Pyradus]

Focus 2.0 is a treadmill.

You level up waybound nodes to make your operator stronger so you can kill Eidolons better, yet the only reason you need to kill Eidolons is for Quill amps/Arcanes and Shards for the obscene focus costs... to make your operator stronger. So you can kill Eidolons better.

It's a closed loop. It's ultimately pointless to the rest of the game.

[Valaska]

5 hours ago, mac10smg-ToaOfGreen said:

....they talked about improving how you gain focus in devstream 100.

This is true but I Think discourse about it now is important so they know that they did make this big of a mistake.

[TKDancer]

On 11/10/2017 at 3:05 PM, Omega-Shadowblade said:

Have you tried operators out against the corpus and infested who have 0 armor?

I personally mix my operator in with those groups cause my zenurik chain lightning actually does a good chunk of aoe damage to em and my shots can actually do decently.

i mean kay, 2 factions

 

but grineer and other armored enemies are still a thing

 

having our operators, who are with us at all times be very weak vs them is bad...also try testing operator vs like, a level 50 combalyst on the simulation

 

(dont forget the 2 main operator activities we have rn involve armored enemies: kuva and eidolons)

[Ardhanarishvara]

On 11/10/2017 at 2:03 PM, Terrornaut said:

Or Naramon will let me actually try channeling builds and go back to channel/qt rage tanking on squishies effectively...though...damn that channeling efficiency cap -_-

Vaz's shielding I don't know about in detail but could potentially be pretty solid.

We all know about Zen. Though its invis and dash stuff also looks effective.

Naramon is less for channeling builds and more for melee-focused builds, especially with Weeping Wounds or Blood Rush, though you can still do Life Strike shenanigans with it - I do on Saryn with Primed Flow, Quick Thinking, Rage and Vitality. If you wanna go full channel, that's Zenurik since it'll let you scrape off an extra efficiency mod, or make up for the efficiency loss of channel bonus mods like Life Strike. Note that Zaws also have Exodias that give energy regain on channel kills (not much, but enough to help recoup the cost of channeling). Naramon's dash, by the way, opens enemies up to repeated finishers permanently. Cloned Flesh is weak to heat damage. Flash Accelerant to stun and gain heat damage, force the finisher, then start using furax of all weapons and just enjoy the glorious pain you inflict on heavies.

Vaz's shielding is... iffy. Wouldn't recommend. You lose your energy instantly. Vaz is for maintenance - you can hop out and dash through your own 'frame to heal it while it's invulnerable or otherwise protected by 90% damage reduction.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

On 10/11/2017 at 2:57 PM, Wyrmius_Prime said:

I don't think the system improved at all. Sure the amps for operators deal more damage and the other abilities got some new features to them as well, but the only point to really use operators outside of purely void dashing into Kuva Guardians is to kill Eidolons. And why do you kill Eidolons? To improve your operator's weaponry. And why would you want to do that? To kill Eidolons faster. That's it. Against regular enemies the operators struggle because of the ridiculous armor scaling. Even the strongest of amps struggle against mid level 40 Grineer without buffs from other Warframes (note, not other operators).

Gaining focus is still bad. It's slow as all hell without cheesing with either Quake Banshee or ''Spider'' Equinox. Sure, the focus cap got increased from 100k to 250k (multiplied by 2.5x), but everything became WAAAAYYYY MORE expensive than that by a mile. It takes between 4 days + 1 Teralyst kill and 1 day + 31 Teralyst kills just to get the 1 mil focus unlocks.

Consoles got the update yesterday and i got the same feeling. It is like a cycle, you improve the operator for the eidolons and vice versa. 

Most people wont use the operators outside of this cycle. Maybe a lot of players will ignore the hole thing completely when they see the amount of effort.

[Ardhanarishvara]

Personally, I feel that y'all are confusing Warrior-Operator with Focus. The two mingle, sure, but they're not the same thing. The Plains of Eidolon and Eidolon Hunting to improve amps, provide armour and add arcanes is not the same thing as Focus, although it surely does synergize with it.

It makes sense that hunting Eidolons would primarily give content that is most useful for hunting Eidolons. It makes Operator do better at the rest of the game but they're not going to just steamroll everything immediately; just because it doesn't right away do particularly well against the game's toughest faction's toughest members doesn't mean it's not still decent. There's ways to combat that. Heck, a video came out showing a pure operator team against Law of Retribution, the Grineer raid.

Focus 2.0, when looked at separately from the Warrior-Operator, is good. Every school has something. Multiple somethings in some cases, which couldn't really be said before. Not to the same degree. It gives a lot more reasons to use the Operator in every day gameplay, not because it's forced, but because it's useful. A few examples have already been cited in this thread.