[Console] Operation: Plague Star!

[---PV---HawkiKill]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)dst123daniel said:

What about all those players who make large contributions to their clan dojo, but by the time an event comes round, don't want to participate, for whatever reason.

Is it right to kick them, just to make a space for a new player who will compete?

What about that player who has got the top score within the clan for the last 3 events, but has taken a break from Warframe, cos he is burned out and needs a break? Is it right to kick him? shouldn't he have the right to return to Warframe a year later, and still be a part of the clan he worked hard for in the past?

That's how you get a dead clan with 0 activity. If you want a group of friends playing together, you don't need a 1000 man clan. 
But if you want the playerbase to be active, then yes, you make people participate, and actually play the game on some sort of regular basis.

For example in RV we have offline limits based on their rank:

Warrior - person just joined - offline limit 7 days. (seems reasonable that he should login at least once a week)
Remnant - person who has been active and noticed - offline limit 20 days.
Sage - person with experience and can lead a raid - offline limit 60 days (that's 2 months)
Officer - person who has powers over chat - 150 days. Plenty of time for a break

... as an example.

You gota keep a big clan active, or it will die and wither.

[---PV---HawkiKill]

3 minutes ago, Mizque said:

Teloch Considering your post is basically saying 'oh your views don't mater' to people with different view points than you, it's kind of ridiculous.  Honestly for clan leader boards, I'd more like to see it track formorian/razor back invasion event contributions, as some of these events get VERY down to the wire with things.  They could also tie that into the rebuild of the relay's they've said will be coming in, in the future.  Instead of it being tied to 'one time only' events it's tied to 'who did the most to help the entire community' when one such thing that actually affects every player happens.

But Fomorian and Razorback have no consequences, they come repeatedly due to the new invasion system, and are used primarily to farm the rare mods and weapons that they drop. Once you have them, other than for sale, you have absolutely no incentive to participate in those events... If they had repeated leaderboards - it would get stale and repetitive very fast....

[JayJayTheScrub]

39 minutes ago, leadwolf1 said:

SO these players do not play unless there is something special for them to be recognize and there name actually be some where? then they really do not like the game and on a normal basis do not play. I am not saying that it is all players that compete  But answer this::: Why reward players that only come to the game if there is something special for them or , a place for a possible name  and a special reward that then would in hinder the player that does play the three to four times a week.?. SO there are emt in my clan that are on call and unable to play , and firefighters, that I have ran into while playing that are not in my clan and military personal that are on my friends list that , when in the field for three weeks at a time to months sometimes , that can not play but belong to clans. so while these players are keeping our country safe or saving a life , and the clan can not fully participate.  the clan that has more players avalible should be the winners of an award like the ignis wraith. Sorry but that is selfish, and your saying it would be ok if the emt plays a game so their caln can participate with your clan  to get that equal advantage and they let your mother or family member die for that is more important to you to make things fair. Instead of saying that it was wrong to do and the ignis wraith could have been distributed better.

your statement is contradictory..., you're saying that people who don't play the game normally shouldn't be rewarded during events (which mind you is also a content update) and yet people who can't play during events shouldn't be penalized (even if only temporarily because again these rewards generally make it back into the game eventually). Would it then be better in your opinion to just not ever have timed events (such as operations and tactical alerts) and for the devs to only release the content as updates?

Edited November 14, 2017 by ---RV---JayJay
added ( )

[leadwolf1]

2 minutes ago, ---RV---HawkiKill said:

Obviously. Why, do you think they should NOT ?

TO all of you , there has been a lot and in the beginning , there were players that did not want to participate , that did not want the leaderboards , calling it cancer 0r toxic, then you had players that said have a leaderboard and a trophy and they were ok with that, but to some that was not good enough , so if all you want is to compete then just agree to a leaderboard and a special trophy depending on the rank  or place you come in. have all other clans be able to earn the rewards  especially if some of the clan members have legitimate issues of why they can not play in that event. have clans sign up for the competition side of event , so if they do badly and their name is on the leader board , they agree to it. Start simply agreeing to a decision.  Everyone on here including myself have wanted to have some part of what they said as part of the solution that is the competitive side. lets just stop make it fair for the game as a whole and not be one sided, show the DE team that we can resolve and come up with an idea that we can all agree with , it may not be what we all want but  want we can be satisfied with moving forward.

[---PV---HawkiKill]

You are really like a broken record... repeat the same thing over and over, without ever listening to what we're saying ...

 

Quote

if all you want is to compete then just agree to a leaderboard

That's exactly what we said we want.

 

Quote

have all other clans be able to earn the rewards

We offered many solutions to that issue... 

- make it a personal reward for participating

- make it a clan score reward that scales based on clan size

- dont tie rewards to 1 time operations at all

Quote

have clans sign up for the competition side of event , so if they do badly and their name is on the leader board , they agree to it.

Do you honestly think, that people are prowling the leaderboards looking for clans with low scores to laugh at them ? or what ?
Noone cares, we all know that most clans dont score well on events.
Why add all the extra unnecessary steps to a leaderboard system that already exists and works ?

[leadwolf1]

14 minutes ago, ---RV---JayJay said:

your statement is contradictory..., you're saying that people who don't play the game normally shouldn't be rewarded during events (which mind you is also a content update) and yet people who can't play during events shouldn't be penalized (even if only temporarily because again these rewards generally make it back into the game eventually). Would it then be better in your opinion to just not ever have timed events (such as operations and tactical alerts) and for the devs to only release the content as updates?

Look Here== to all I will say this, in my particular case, make your own judgement and before your comment reverse the situation and instead of me it is you. then answer if you are so inclined to. I was handed the warlord position because the other stepped down we had a almost non participation clan. the previous leader did not downsize,  the player just left. now , not knowing that events we automatically point based by clan size ambulas came to play. when I relized during the event that  that is how it was working DE would not allow me to down size to where I should have been competing. so I had to farm for the 7,200 beacons by myself to even finish the event to get to the boss. for those who even did half of that you know how long it took. So to even compete after that to get the ignis wraith. was clearly an impossible task, the event had ended.  SO all the competitive clans are saying , that it is to bad you worked so hard and are competitive but we have more players so we win and you do not deserve the ignis wraith, event though in reality I did do more than most players in the game, I know tis by looking at the event board. now have you do that and see if you feel the same way that you , in my shoes do not rate the ignis wraith in your dojo which clearly should have been allowed to reduce and get rid of all the low level player the had not been on in over 200 days , keep in mind these were not players that have completed almost everything in the game. they just quit the game. This eliminates the comment that the would be brought up for veterans. this is why I am fighting you in this forum I do not want this to happen to other players, that might not stick it out like I did and just quit the game totally, not being able to get a chance to enjoy the game experience. I believe to be a great game 

[---PV---HawkiKill]

So you were handed a warlord position, which you were not ready for, the clan was dead, you didn't know what you were doing, and the rest of us should suffer for it ? did I get that right ?

Locking rosters during the event makes sense. I can also see why they would not let a clan downsize during the event - to prevent a moon clan with bad or average score to nab #1 spot in lower categories by downsizing forcefully.

Edited November 14, 2017 by ---RV---HawkiKill

[JayJayTheScrub]

24 minutes ago, leadwolf1 said:

Look Here== to all I will say this, in my particular case, make your own judgement and before your comment reverse the situation and instead of me it is you. then answer if you are so inclined to. I was handed the warlord position because the other stepped down we had a almost non participation clan. the previous leader did not downsize,  the player just left. now , not knowing that events we automatically point based by clan size ambulas came to play. when I relized during the event that  that is how it was working DE would not allow me to down size to where I should have been competing. so I had to farm for the 7,200 beacons by myself to even finish the event to get to the boss. for those who even did half of that you know how long it took. So to even compete after that to get the ignis wraith. was clearly an impossible task, the event had ended.  SO all the competitive clans are saying , that it is to bad you worked so hard and are competitive but we have more players so we win and you do not deserve the ignis wraith, event though in reality I did do more than most players in the game, I know tis by looking at the event board. now have you do that and see if you feel the same way that you , in my shoes do not rate the ignis wraith in your dojo which clearly should have been allowed to reduce and get rid of all the low level player the had not been on in over 200 days , keep in mind these were not players that have completed almost everything in the game. they just quit the game. This eliminates the comment that the would be brought up for veterans. this is why I am fighting you in this forum I do not want this to happen to other players, that might not stick it out like I did and just quit the game totally, not being able to get a chance to enjoy the game experience. I believe to be a great game 

as i said earlier in this thread... i fear you do not know the context of this discussion... ignis wraith was a PACIFISM DEFECT reward, not Ambulas Reborn. Ambulas Reborn HAD NO REWARD for placing high in its leaderboard, even if you did manage to be in the top 10% you wouldn't have gotten anything for it. You chose to assume that role and stay in that clan where you could have left if you knew it was -for lack of better words- dead. and AGAIN, we are NOT asking for ANY REWARD for leaderboard placement. (by the way, i farmed enough beacons through helping clan members reach the minimum requirement we set to buy the entire token shop inventory multiple times over, and was still not the highest contributor to my clan's score).

P.S. i hate putting things entirely in capital letters, but these points have been stated enough times in the thread i feel it necessary to do so here.

Edited November 14, 2017 by ---RV---JayJay

[leadwolf1]

28 minutes ago, ---RV---HawkiKill said:

You are really like a broken record... repeat the same thing over and over, without ever listening to what we're saying ...

 

That's exactly what we said we want.

 

We offered many solutions to that issue... 

- make it a personal reward for participating

- make it a clan score reward that scales based on clan size

- dont tie rewards to 1 time operations at all

Do you honestly think, that people are prowling the leaderboards looking for clans with low scores to laugh at them ? or what ?
Noone cares, we all know that most clans dont score well on events.
Why add all the extra unnecessary steps to a leaderboard system that already exists and works ?

Do you honestly think, that people are prowling the leaderboards looking for clans with low scores to laugh at them ? or what ? No I do not think that people look to laugh, however I do believe that some competitive clan said that they wanted the board permanent  so they could use them for recruitment into their clans. Human nature is that when you show the board you are going to point out the place you came in and you will not say to the recruit  that 8 out of the ten really were not competing so our second is really last place. you will point out that in this event we came in second. giving a false sense of being better than you are for that event. this constitutes a lie basically. that is why I stated the sign up. and it is the only reason.

[---PV---HawkiKill]

if the clan gets second place, even if it's by the power of 10 players out of 100, the clan still gets second place. That is how it works. It is not a lie. Leaderboards are based on Total score of the entire clan. it doesnt give a false sense of anything. It just tells people that that particular clan got second place score wise. Stop making S#&$ up to make your argument valid, it doesnt work not does it help this discussion.

[Braken]

OK guys, cut it out. You're derailing the thread way too much.

 

It appears the majority of the people asking for leaderboards do not want gameplay-affecting items locked behind them. This is perfectly fine, and for their sake, I do hope DE listens and implements a leaderboard system for this coming operation.

 

Lets just accept that people have differing opinions on the rest, and leave it at that.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Braken

[Sunseahl]

2 hours ago, ScytheFly said:

Most of players just want to enjoy the game, thats all. Quit Bitc... crying

[---PV---HawkiKill]

5 minutes ago, Sunseahl said:

If you want to just enjoy the game so bad, why u on forums discussing change ?

Edited November 14, 2017 by ---RV---HawkiKill

[Sunseahl]

I'm here to keep tab on Dev updates to this thread... These.... "Hardcore Gamers," are the ones throwing a glorified hissy fit over leaderboards.

[.DiZzY]

29 minutes ago, leadwolf1 said:

Look Here== to all I will say this, in my particular case, make your own judgement and before your comment reverse the situation and instead of me it is you. then answer if you are so inclined to. I was handed the warlord position because the other stepped down we had a almost non participation clan. the previous leader did not downsize,  the player just left. now , not knowing that events we automatically point based by clan size ambulas came to play. when I relized during the event that  that is how it was working DE would not allow me to down size to where I should have been competing. so I had to farm for the 7,200 beacons by myself to even finish the event to get to the boss. for those who even did half of that you know how long it took. So to even compete after that to get the ignis wraith. was clearly an impossible task, the event had ended.  SO all the competitive clans are saying , that it is to bad you worked so hard and are competitive but we have more players so we win and you do not deserve the ignis wraith, event though in reality I did do more than most players in the game, I know tis by looking at the event board. now have you do that and see if you feel the same way that you , in my shoes do not rate the ignis wraith in your dojo which clearly should have been allowed to reduce and get rid of all the low level player the had not been on in over 200 days , keep in mind these were not players that have completed almost everything in the game. they just quit the game. This eliminates the comment that the would be brought up for veterans. this is why I am fighting you in this forum I do not want this to happen to other players, that might not stick it out like I did and just quit the game totally, not being able to get a chance to enjoy the game experience. I believe to be a great game 

If I was in your position I'd stop caring soo much about event leaderboards. Your membership is performing a valuable service that far outweighs the virtual realm of Warframe. Take pride in that instead of this misguided entitlement that you should be put on the same shelf as competitive clans that have an active membership. Navy seals don't get awarded the gold medal in the world soccer cup while they are out on patrol in Iraq either.

[Zahnny]

Hey guys what's going on in this th-

[-TSA-Rubicon2.0]

3 hours ago, ScytheFly said:

 

Most of player just want to enjoy the game that all Quit Bitc... crying

hahaha.... WOW !!!
Exactly what "we"are saying... we are enjoing the game by playing competitive events. And [DE] will rip off that enjoy from us by removing the leaderboard. 

Now dont you get it ? Most of the players enjoying the game, so please quit bit*** crying boy. 

just imagine if DE remove something from players like you? The forum will be full with whining people

[Sunseahl]

19 minutes ago, -TSA-Rubicon2.0 said:

hahaha.... WOW !!!
Exactly what "we"are saying... we are enjoing the game by playing competitive events. And [DE] will rip off that enjoy from us by removing the leaderboard. 

Now dont you get it ? Most of the players enjoying the game, so please quit bit*** crying boy. 

just imagine if DE remove something from players like you? The forum will be full with whining people

If you're THAT upset perhaps you should have been posting in the feedback section, not starting a friggin' Tug-o-War in an INFORMATION thread....

Edited November 14, 2017 by Sunseahl

[---RV---Maniac]

5 hours ago, (PS4)dst123daniel said:

Let me just say the clan I am in is a competitive clan, and has been competing since operation shadow debt. We are usually under strength as we don't force players to compete, and have several long time inactive players that we won't kick cos they are friends. That being said, we still place well on leaderboards, so please don't think this suggestion is to make things easier on us. I don't mind putting extra effort in to push the clan up the leaderboards, even if we are handicapped, and am actually happy with how they are (or were). But I thought the whole point of this thread was to get ideas for a new system that is fair to all.

After the ambulus event, my freind left the clan he was in because the leader was demanding members compete, if they didn't perform well enough, they had to pay plat to stay in the clan! I'd imagine this sort of behaviour is the cause of much of the toxicity surrounding event leaderboards.

My method of scoring should eliminate this sort of thing. Trying to force someone to compete wouldn't mean you score more, in fact, if they don't really want to compete, the chances are they would score lower than if they actually wanted to compete, and so would lower the clan average. And further more, a clan wouldn't be handicapped if members didn't compete, because all the scores are the average of those who chose to compete within the clan, not the average of every member within the clan.

This also means the size of your clan is irrelevant, as the clan score is the average of only those who choose to compete. 

I am not saying that the scores shouldn't be broken up into clan sizes, just that it would effectively mean that they wouldn't need to be separated.

And, despite my clan getting the ignis wraith bp in the dojo, I definitely think that this is another source of toxicity about leaderboards. Sure, it was a great motivation for competing clans, but it has effectively handed out an affinity gaining item (both dojo affinity and player affinity) that is unavailable to other players, and this is something DE seem to want to avoid (Eg, daily tribute awards being changed for earlier access, alert/event weapons now available from invasions or baro)

The competition for the leaderboards should just be for those ranks, not for an exclusive reward no others can get

I already said it, we don't care about exclusive rewards, you can go look us up in a forum post here giving out free ignis wraith and hema for anyone that wants it. People keep bringing this up and I don't know why. Maybe a regalia, emblem would be nice if you score in the top (something to remember basically), but we don't care for weapons. Also stop mentioning ignis wraith likes an unobtainable item, PEOPLE GIVE IT FOR FREE. And as for clan mastery, its a tiny ammount and Im okay with DE if they want to remove it completely from counting towards clan rank.

The way, you suggested was bad though, as it penalized any clan that wanted to participate in full capacity, I mean if you are a Moon clan, your expected to have 1k people participating on Operation, otherwise whats the point?

Your choice wouldnt eliminate anything, it would just increase it actually. Moon clan can have a selected few participating in an operation to win it, then once its done they can charge plat to either join or stay in the "prestigious" clan if you didn't participate.

Doesn't make sense to have only a selected few participating in an operation. It will punish any clan that tries to go with all its members, not to mention, anyone that's not a veteran will be forbiden by these clans from participating in the operation out of fear of damaging their score thus will remove people from participation in an operation and create more toxicity.

As for the clan thing, you always get a choice to leave that clan and go somewhere else. There's always gona be douchebag warlords taking advantage of their members with or without operations. If you want a relaxed clan, theres plenty of choice, leaderboards dont affect them and if you like competing, you go into a clan into that.

Competitivity does not equal toxicity. 

[---RV---Maniac]

1 hour ago, Braken said:

OK guys, cut it out. You're derailing the thread way too much.

 

It appears the majority of the people asking for leaderboards do not want gameplay-affecting items locked behind them. This is perfectly fine, and for their sake, I do hope DE listens and implements a leaderboard system for this coming operation.

 

Lets just accept that people have differing opinions on the rest, and leave it at that.

I do agree, with you. But it's kinda hard to stand back and let some of these people talk alot of nonsense about how somehow better the game is without leaderboards and that we are aiming to take precious clan research all to ourselfs.

[phoenix1992]

So... How is the soon going?

[JayJayTheScrub]

43 minutes ago, Sunseahl said:

If you're THAT upset perhaps you should have been posting in the feedback section, not starting a friggin' Tug-o-War in an INFORMATION thread....

 

On 11/10/2017 at 8:15 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Remember all: if you have something constructive to add about what you like about competitive leaderboards for future designs (not this Operation), this is definitely the time and place to do it. We're here reading for that reason.

 

[Stoner]

3 hours ago, Braken said:

OK guys, cut it out. You're derailing the thread way too much.

 

It appears the majority of the people asking for leaderboards do not want gameplay-affecting items locked behind them. This is perfectly fine, and for their sake, I do hope DE listens and implements a leaderboard system for this coming operation.

 

Lets just accept that people have differing opinions on the rest, and leave it at that.

Yep, everything has been said. Hardcore players want leaderboards while casual players could care less. 

#thread

Edited November 15, 2017 by Stoner74
speillign

[mrrobotto67]

Wait ... so people are getting pissed that there is no leaderboards on this event? 

[ScytheFly]

5 hours ago, -TSA-Rubicon2.0 said:

hahaha.... WOW !!!
Exactly what "we"are saying... we are enjoing the game by playing competitive events. And [DE] will rip off that enjoy from us by removing the leaderboard. 

Now dont you get it ? Most of the players enjoying the game, so please quit bit*** crying boy. 

just imagine if DE remove something from players like you? The forum will be full with whining people

Remove what? Whole game? I enjoy every aspect of Warframe even Leaderboard IF the whole game going to be remove Of course i going to whine.

But i will not Whining just because 1 event don't have Leaderboard

 

PS. Yes I do not Read the WHOLE thread. Who want to read lot of crappy texts that will anger you? Not me