Fomorian Event Observations

[Razorfire]

First, I would like to say to the Tenno; 

Good work! It looked like an almost impossible task but we managed it. 

 

Second, to the devs:

 

Great idea!

 

Now onto my observations and, well, criticisms...

 

In chat, it was a bit frenetic, people seem to not get it that spamming for teams in region chat isn't a good idea. We'll need a note somewhere to indicate where you can find teams, and make it impossible to ignore. Also, I've noticed that the focus on the chat box defaults to Region, rather than the last channel you were in. That becomes a bit of a problem coming out of a mission. Instead of being in Squad or Clan, you end up back in Region and don't realize it.

 

Team formation seems to be a bit problematic, technically. Scrolling the userlist is rather onerous, not to mention clumsy, so is hand typing the nick/name of the Tenno that wants to join your team in an effort to invite. Considering the level of creativity used to select a unique name for each Tenno, it's some times almost impossible to determine if an L or an I is used, for example, can you tell the difference between I or l? (Captial i or lowercase L) Some players take advantage of this just for the sake of being contrary and for laughs. Perhaps there can be a way for us to right click the name in the chat scroll and menu option appears for ignoring/inviting the selected user? It'll make life SO much easier for clan and team forming.

 

Cooperative play was, I suspect, the intended goal for the Fomorian event, and it was a good try. However, that didn't quite happen that way. 

 

I agree with the three component requirement for maximum points per sabotage run. What with the lag issue of the network, it made it better than a four man team, and the point spread between the components was also good thinking, allowing solos to get involved as well. However, the point system and time limits of the overall event worked against encouraging coop play, I'm afraid.

 

The rushers had a field day, so did the leeches. Leeches got their 250 points and went back to whatever they were doing before the event, so participation tapered off rather quickly, and early, with the exception of the leechers using the event to swell up clan ranks with requirement that if anyone wanted to join their team, they had to join their clan. Simple larceny, essentially. After most of the leeches dropped out, it was up to the rest of us to carry the load. The rushers basically flogged everyone for not keeping up, and frankly, obnoxious about it, especially when they had to defend the console by themselves while the others struggled to catch up.

 

The point system/time constraints also made rushers out of some of us true coop players as well, especially once the leaches got their 250 points and moved on. Those of us concerned about the penalty of failure at any of the planets had to take up the load and move quickly. The formula for us became; Get there, defend, get out. We had to grind to avoid having to grind later.

 

I won't discuss the rumored bug that awarded 15 points a run, btw. It's the thing that can explain some of the amazing point accumulations I've seen in the leader boards, never mind other exploits that might have been used.

 

All this brings me to the awards for our efforts. 

 

It seems everyone got a shoulder emblem for participation of any kind, that's a good thing, and those that received points across the range leading up to 250 received their awards as well, as planned and intended, and the clansmen/women/other that will get their accolades for their performance is also well and good. But, on behalf of those that continued the grind beyond the 250 points for the sake of preserving the resource drops at any of the planets, putting up with abusive rushers and leeches in the process... I can't help feel a little slighted.

 

For many of us that formed teams (basically herding cats), tried to keep the team glued together and working together when it was obvious that they were only interested in themselves, or have no interest in being as cooperative as they could be. Could the event have been done better? I don't know...give me some time and I might come up with some good ideas. (The Fomorian Event model, actually should be used for all missions, in my opinion.)

 

I suppose I'm saying that I would like to offer my own congrats and thanks to those that went above and beyond to keep resource drops from getting cut. To those that were more concerned about team play and fun. It's to those that rejected selfish attitudes and behavior to help everyone out.

 

Coming from me, it's not much, and really, you can't use it to any advantage, but there it is. 

 

 

[Kalenath]

Good points.

 

I personally LOVED reading chat when rushers ran off on their own and ran into squads of 20+ Grineer at once. It was hilarious.

[Beelzebubbles]

I didn't read most of the post, due to the overabundance of accusations that players that only made it to 250 points are "leeches".  I played off and on from Friday through Sunday, as much as I do on any given day, and when I played, I directly contributed to the community event goals, oftentimes working with my clan to do so.

 

Your blanket statements devalue your arguments.

[RedDirtTrooper]

TL;DR

Because... Because you can't? I'm so sorry.

[Razorfire]

I didn't read most of the post, due to the overabundance of accusations that players that only made it to 250 points are "leeches".  I played off and on from Friday through Sunday, as much as I do on any given day, and when I played, I directly contributed to the community event goals, oftentimes working with my clan to do so.

 

Your blanket statements devalue your arguments.

 

Too bad.

I was raised to believe that one must be informed before one can be qualified to comment.

[123Olympian]

Good points.

 

I personally LOVED reading chat when rushers ran off on their own and ran into squads of 20+ Grineer at once. It was hilarious.

Same.

[RealEnex]

i disagree on the point where u made that it almoust looked impossible, i stayed up till everything was done and we had 12 hours left for the event lol.

and i do agree that people who got to top 10 at least shud of gotten something extra, i personally got to 29th place but i do believe the top 10 shud of been awarded more. On that note, i do believe the top 10 people either exploited the bug with points or were played by 2-3 people so it kept constantly farming, cus i ran by myself and managed to get 29th place with 5 hours a day of sleep and few breaks, without exploiting the bugs even thou i did find out about it on the last day.

[Beelzebubbles]

Too bad.

I was raised to believe that one must be informed before one can be qualified to comment.

 

I am quite informed.  My point was that you are an ineffective communicator.

[Razorfire]

I am quite informed.  My point was that you are an ineffective communicator.

 

The fact that your first comment was, "I didn't read most of the post" proves that you are not informed, by your own admission, and now, you're becoming abusive. 

 

Please, contribute or don't say anything.

[Razorfire]

i disagree on the point where u made that it almoust looked impossible, i stayed up till everything was done and we had 12 hours left for the event lol.

and i do agree that people who got to top 10 at least shud of gotten something extra, i personally got to 29th place but i do believe the top 10 shud of been awarded more. On that note, i do believe the top 10 people either exploited the bug with points or were played by 2-3 people so it kept constantly farming, cus i ran by myself and managed to get 29th place with 5 hours a day of sleep and few breaks, without exploiting the bugs even thou i did find out about it on the last day.

 

Well, I had my doubts when things started tapering off in Recruiting. Things were switching from the Fomorians to void missions progressively to the point where it was difficult to see the Fomorian mission requests. But then, I think I was only seeing the West Coast chatter. Retaining the team was the most difficult. They weren't just getting disconnected, they'd get their 250 and bail out, and I see them looking for a void mission in chat. I was constantly having to refill vacant slots.

[NeverNever]

Good points.

 

I personally LOVED reading chat when rushers ran off on their own and ran into squads of 20+ Grineer at once. It was hilarious.

 

I loved when the people who couldn't keep up with me died to the like, 3 grineer I didn't kill on my way through and I had to go back and babysit them with my iron skin until they put there corrupter into the defence point..

[Fuilteach]

Friends don't let friends PUG

[Kalenath]

I loved when the people who couldn't keep up with me died to the like, 3 grineer I didn't kill on my way through and I had to go back and babysit them with my iron skin until they put there corrupter into the defence point..

 

Well, to each their own.

 

I always loved when the speed modded Rhino begged me for Snow Globe after leaving me to fight the 2 Heavies, 3 Scorpions, 6 Lancers and about 3 Evicerators that he ignored while he rushed off to get to the defense point, because he had to be there first and put his Stable in. Happened 3 times over the weekend and each time my response was the same. I was usually too busy not dying to type what I wanted to.

 

'Teamwork. Gotta love it.'

Edited July 29, 2013 by Kalenath

[VinceBlood]

I loved when the people who couldn't keep up with me died to the like, 3 grineer I didn't kill on my way through and I had to go back and babysit them with my iron skin until they put there corrupter into the defence point..

 

Maybe you should wait the hell up and be a team player or turn on the Solo button.

[Razorfire]

Well, to each their own.

 

I always loved when the speed modded Rhino begged me for Snow Globe after leaving me to fight the 2 Heavies, 3 Scorpions, 6 Lancers and about 3 Evicerators that he ignored while he rushed off to get to the defense point, because he had to be there first and put his Stable in. Happened 3 times over the weekend and each time my response was the same. I was usually too busy not dying to type what I wanted to.

 

Teamwork.

 

Gotta love it.

 

Path clearing is SO fundemental for a team. It's bad enough the mobs respawn behind you. The sad thing is, the team would reach the objectives faster if they stayed together then if they... what's it called? Parkour to it. Not to mention, affinity galore, drops and friendship. <le sigh>

[Mak_Gohae]

with the exception of the leechers using the event to swell up clan ranks with requirement that if anyone wanted to join their team, they had to join their clan.

 

LOL! Really?

Wow.

[Kalenath]

Maybe you should wait the hell up and be a team player or turn on the Solo button.

 

No, please don't be that way. People have different play styles.

 

Some people enjoy being solo even in team missions, some people work better as part of a team. As long as you don't HINDER the team, I couldn't care less.

 

If you DO hinder... Like an idiot Vauban who thought it was a good idea to set a Bounce on the lip of a ledge just where you climb up from the room where you had to jump onto the pylons. You know, the ones where you auto roll off them about half the time?  And then he though it was funny to put a Vortex inside the Snow Globe on the Defense point... (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE... And so do I...)

 

He got NO support from us and died four times on the way out... When he complained, we asked if he understood the word 'teamwork'.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Kalenath

[Razorfire]

LOL! Really?

Wow.

 

Yeah, and it caught on and others started doing it. It was pretty disgusting.

But, that's how it is with 'competition' without it being tempered with ethics and integrity.

So many kids learning how to be... unethical and not paying the price for it. :P

[VinceBlood]

No, please don't be that way. People have different play styles.

 

Some people enjoy being solo even in team missions, some people work better as part of a team. As long as you don't HINDER the team, I couldn't care less.

 

If you DO hinder like an idiot Vauban who thought it was a good idea to set a Bounce on the lip of a ledge just where you climb up from the room where you had to jump onto the pylons. You know, the ones where you auto roll off them about half the time?  And then he though it was funny to put a Vortex inside the Snow Globe on the Defense point... (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE...)

 

He got NO support from us and died four times on the way out... When he complained, we asked if he understood the word 'teamwork'.

 

I completely understand your POV.  I assure you I do.

 

If you rush way, way ahead and then get your underwear in a bunch when people take the time to kill all of the enemies you left behind, you're not playing with the right crowd.  This was a co-op event that rewarded teamwork.  Leaving the team behind just to race to the injector is a poor show.

 

EDIT:  On top of that, check out the post I was responding to.  I think you'll understand my point a little better then.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Vince613

[Mak_Gohae]

Yeah, and it caught on and others started doing it. It was pretty disgusting.

But, that's how it is with 'competition' without it being tempered with ethics and integrity.

So many kids learning how to be... unethical and not paying the price for it. :P

 

 

[JamesSergon]

I am quite informed.  My point was that you are an ineffective communicator.

 

Well; i'm gonna defend him.  Your own arguments are devalued because you didn't read his arguments you are trying to devalue.  I am not sure who's the ineffective communicator here.  At least, he's mostly trying to be constructive and opened to constructive discussions.

 

It is true that many people I've encountered who didn't or couldn't do this event without clan members or friends didn't really care about other teammates during the runs.  They will flame if you try to take a few seconds to destroy some containers in sight or if you arrive a bit late to the extraction point, but they don't realize that by running in front and not caring about anything but setting a new time record they slow you down even more by letting trails of mobs behind them. The point is that a game is supposed to be fun; if you just want to rack up points, make a Window Forms app. with an incremental value button or go back to Z*ng*'s F*rmv*ll*...(yeah, i consider them as curse words).

 

More seriously, the idea of giving extra points by having many kind of corruptors was a great idea to enforce some level of cooperative play.   Now - and i think it's part of his question - what more can be done towards this direction to avoid anti-cooperative rushers/leechers behaviors during event, and also in general?

 

I have a few thoughts on this matter.

 

1)  In this particular event, I believe injecting more corruptors should have ADDed like 30-45 more seconds each instead of making the timer drop to less then a minute.  It would still have been more benefics to have all corruptors overall, and by killing hords of mobs during 4-5 minutes instead of 45 sec, people would have gain more resources, mods, XP and fun (for people who seeks that) per time unit in average.

 

2)  In general, no matter what, if a minority of players (1 on teams of 2 or 3; 2 on teams of 4) are  too far away in front, he/they should be autolocked in the room and need at least another player to work with him/them to open the door (2 on teams of 2 or 3; 3 on teams of 4). It would force the majority of players to stick together, and players couldn't just run without helping each others.

 

3) In general, maybe team experience should not be automatic. It should be only applied to the players around a certain radius from the killed mob and/or the killer (or, if it is too much computationally expensive, in the same room or connected room); so at least, "regular" players won't feed leechers/runners extra xp.

 

4) A more "positive" idea this time: give the players MANY secondaries objectives AND team objectives that give a % bonus XP/credits/mod/component rewards for completing 2/3/4/x out of the x objectives (if all members of the team get their objectives done, it can also give an extra reward).  So make it worth it to take your time and play as a team.

 

Team objectives can be numerous:

- No one should die more than 0/1/2

- Find at least x components or specific components

- Open % of the containers

- Don't get detect by more then x cameras

- Kill all/% cameras on the level

- Explore x or % rooms

- Kill x numbers of enemies

- Kill the boss in less than x seconds

- Kill the boss using only melee/ranged weapons;

- Kill the boss without using any abilities

- Total team cannot take more than x health/shield/poison/electric/fire damages

- Mini puzzle objectives (multiplayer security hacks, find a secret stash/prisoneer/datalink)

...

they are not all great, i just wrote them down without putting much thoughts, but you see the point.  It would also add to the replay value of most mission types while promoting teamplay.

 

That's it for now!  Sorry for my "average" English by the way; it's not my primary language :)!

 

Edit: Oh I forgot!  About the points system for clan: why not just use an average points per member metric, and awards the x top clans of each categories consequently?  We are a small clan of 6 active players and we want to stay small, but we can hardly compete against active clan of 10 players, but it is even worse for clans of 300 vs 1000 players. So, in this regard, why should a clan of 300 players even TRY to go beyond the 250 points required if they have no shot at it?

Edited July 29, 2013 by JamesSergon

[RedDirtTrooper]

It is true that many people I've encountered who didn't or couldn't do this event without clan members or friends didn't really care about other teammates during the runs.  They will flame if you try to take a few seconds to destroy some containers in sight or if you arrive a bit late to the extraction point, but they don't realize that by running in front and not caring about anything but setting a new time record they slow you down even more by letting trails of mobs behind them. The point is that a game is supposed to be fun; if you just want to rack up points, make a Window Forms app. with an incremental value button or go back to Z*ng*'s F*rmv*ll*...(yeah, i consider them as curse words).

 

 

All you had to do was run past the same mobs they did, your failure to do so means you were slowing everyone down, not them. If you're ever in a public game and thinking, "Wow, these three people aren't playing right, what a bunch of A******s." then chances are that you're the only A****** there.

 

1)  In this particular event, I believe injecting more corruptors should have ADDed like 30-45 more seconds each instead of making the timer drop to less then a minute.  It would still have been more benefics to have all corruptors overall, and by killing hords of mobs during 4-5 minutes instead of 45 sec, people would have gain more resources, mods, XP and fun (for people who seeks that) per time unit in average.

 

 

So, people like me, who absolutely hate Grineer defense, and honestly, Grineer maps in general, should have been punished for being prepared by being forced to take three or four times as long for each craptastic run. No thank you. What resources and mods I did get were a side benefit, but I was there exclusively for the event points. Lengthening the timer would have just decreased the number of points I was getting in a given time period. If I was just looking for more fun, I would have been anywhere in this game that isn't a grineer map.

 

2)  In general, no matter what, if a minority of players (1 on teams of 2 or 3; 2 on teams of 4) are  too far away in front, he/they should be autolocked in the room and need at least another player to work with him/them to open the door (2 on teams of 2 or 3; 3 on teams of 4). It would force the majority of players to stick together, and players couldn't just run without helping each others.

 

Your way of playing the game is not the only way, get over yourself. The developers have said they want to make rushing difficult, not impossible like this horrible idea would make it. Forcing people to conform to your "proper" way of playing is just ruining someone else's game because of your whiny pathetic butt hurt.

 

3) In general, maybe team experience should not be automatic. It should be only applied to the players around a certain radius from the killed mob and/or the killer (or, if it is too much computationally expensive, in the same room or connected room); so at least, "regular" players won't feed leechers/runners extra xp.

 

It's already not automatic, there's a range limit on it. Nobody who's rushing is worried about the XP they're missing out on, because they're trying to complete an objective. If they were leveling, they'd be doing Kappa, same as always.

 

4) A more "positive" idea this time: give the players MANY secondaries objectives AND team objectives that give a % bonus XP/credits/mod/component rewards for completing 2/3/4/x out of the x objectives (if all members of the team get their objectives done, it can also give an extra reward).  So make it worth it to take your time and play as a team.

 

This is probably the only statement in your entire wall of text that I don't disagree with. I have no problem with them giving more positive incentives for cooperative team play.

[Razorfire]

Ummm, so, being a rusher, you'd rather screw the rest of your team out of xp and drops for your own needs.

I don't see much difference between what you are accusing James of and what you want.

 

I've had plenty of rushes lie to me about clearing a level and then completing it alone, leaving the rest of us feeling screwed over.

 

Jame's ideas are far more sensible and reasonable than, "If I wanna rush, let me" attitude you're sporting, Trooper.

 

Just because you'd be farming affinity by grinding at Kappa or Xini, doesn't mean everyone is. For some of us, it's more fun to run missions and level up.

 

One other problem is the alerts, you have to unlock missions in order to get access to the alerts for that mission node. THAT is the only motivation for rushing in this game. There's no reason you can't rush solo or with a team of rushers together by mutual agreement, but rushing a mission without an agreement is the same as hijacking it for your own needs, and THAT is the primary complaint about rushers. 

Edited July 30, 2013 by Razorfire

[IIPREDATORII]

What would stop rushers in their tracks from killing the bosses on their own/ or dropping the corrupter and starting the defense would be....

BOSSES WILL ONLY START IF ALL MEMBERS OF THE SQUAD ARE PRESENT ... LIKE THE JACKYL FIGHT.

THE SAME COULD HAVE BEEN DONE IN THIS EVENT... MAKE THE DEFENSE START WHEN ALL ARE PRESENT, AND ALL THREE (SHOULDVE BEEN FOUR IMO) CORRUPTERS ARE PLACED.

Also to the op. I had no choice to only get the 250 points. Why? Because I had to f***ing work. Incinuating that everyone who got to only 250 is a leech just makes you look like a self centered prick. Not everyone has the luxury to sit on their butt and play this game on the weekends like you do. They may have jobs and other life activities. I totally wanted to continue this event to help out. But because these events are on the weekends I can't. If they ever do an event during the week op guaranteed I'll be calling you the "leetch" just out of spite.

[RedDirtTrooper]

No, I'd rather they not completely disregard the speed that the rest of the team is moving at. As I said, if you are thinking three people in the mission are bad guys, you're probably the bad guy. If I get some guy raging in chat about rushers, and look over at one, or even two other players who moved at the same speed as I did, in front of that guy, I have to wonder what makes his method of screwing the rest of the team more valid than the one he's accusing others of. Your way of playing the game is not everyone else's. If you are playing public matches, you'll get in games with people who's way of playing differ significantly from yours. Your way isn't automatically right. Also, your definition of rushing isn't going to match up with other peoples definition. My definition of rushing is a fast frame with maxed rush and ignoring EVERYTHING but the objective. If I'm going to do that, I'll solo or form a clan group. So when someone in a public game accuses me of rushing, and I've been shooting things and popping chests the whole way, I tend to think "I'm not rushing, you're just ridiculously slow." And I'm a nice guy in groups, I'll respond to requests for help, I'll slow down if I find I'm out ahead completely by myself, I'll revive anyone who drops within a range that I can reach them at, I answer questions from new players, but I'm not going to feel sorry for the whiny sluggo 6 rooms behind who's crying because he has gone so slow that enemies have actually respawned between him and us because he thinks he's "playing properly". I'm not going to feel bad if he goes down and is too far back for anyone to revive him in time. He made all those choices on his own.

 

His suggestions, well, some of them torture a huge portion of the game population into playing the way he thinks is appropriate, especially #2. #1 would just be mildly annoying. #3 is a non issue, and I agreed with him on #4. The entire first portion where he basically belittled anyone who was playing the event missions for the event reward and trying to maximize point earning as quickly as possible was just the kind of petty entitlement that leads people to thinking that their way of playing the game is the one true way of playing the game.

 

Rushing in a public game, the way I define rushing, is a form of hijacking, but crawling along when everyone else is ahead of you and complaining about it IS THE SAME EXACT THING. I've lost track of the number of times it's been me and one or two other guys standing on extraction, watching some jack hole(s) belittle our way of playing the game in chat while he/they stand just outside of extraction to "pay us back" for rushing. I find self righteous unofficial GMs a lot more annoying than even the worst hijacking rusher I've ever had in a game.

 

One guy going faster than the whole team, he's being inconsiderate, two people going faster, they've just set the rate that the party is moving at, deal with it. Three people going faster than one guy, that guy is being inconsiderate.