Another Gamers Bulletin - Fee To Pay

[11.11.11]

I'm just throwing another one of Jim's excellent video commentaries out here for the Warframe community.

For a long time I've been happy with DE's pricing of warframes optional real-currency transactions. But lately, with the introduction of materials to the in-game market, and the 30 platinum clan emblems, nevermind the fee to upload an emblem, a few question marks have begun to form in my mind.

 

So here's the link: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7811-Fee-to-Pay

 

 

And let's hear everyone's thoughts on what you think of Jim's take on this, and what it might mean for us, Tenno. 

 

 

 

_{Please post courteously and responsibly.}

[Gravy]

Also the avatar picture from credits to platinum.... umm... wasn't sure if that was a necessary strategy. 

[KvotheTheArcane1]

IMO DE really needs to fix market prices, almost nothing is a good buy, and their goal is to sell you as much platinum as possible, which means making you go "Wow! that weapon/frame is a decent price finally!"

[ForumSmurf]

I just finished watching the interesting video. He is saying he's only disguised with 60 dollar games with micro transactions. He even referenced Black light retribution as a game where he goes in knowing that there will be micro transactions but its ok since it was free to begin with.

[11.11.11]

IMO DE really needs to fix market prices, almost nothing is a good buy, and their goal is to sell you as much platinum as possible, which means making you go "Wow! that weapon/frame is a decent price finally!"

 

Honestly I've always felt the prices are too high to be impulse buys, and too low on value to be long-term investments. The only significant buy I ever made was ember + her alt helm. But at $20USD + or your regional equivalent, it's simply a purchase I'd never make again. Three frames, and you've already paid full retail price, and there are FOURTEEN frames in the game.

 

Of course the argument can be made that DE isn't expecting anyone to buy all the frames outright, but if people want to, the option is there (for a price). Personally though, I've farmed every other frame since, and I wouldn't do it any other way. 10 hours + of my time is cheaper for me than $20. But DE isn't even benefiting from all this time I spend in-game, because meanwhile their impulse purchases (rushing in the foundry, cosmetic items etc) just seem too high to be worth it. 

 

 

 

I just finished watching the interesting video. He is saying he's only disguised with 60 dollar games with micro transactions. He even referenced Black light retribution as a game where he goes in knowing that there will be micro transactions but its ok since it was free to begin with.

 

 

I know - I wasn't in anyway saying Jim is outraged at titles like Warframe or Blacklight - which are pure Free to Play titles - with some optional transactions tacked on. I was more using it as a springboard for discussion. Which also brings to mind, I wonder how DE intends to manage platinum costs if / when the game is eventually completed? Will Warframe forever remain free to play? Or will there come a day when you can pick up a boxed edition at your local retailer? And should that happen, will those of us who've paid nearly 3x retail over the beta years, feel fairly done by? 

Edited July 30, 2013 by 11.11.11

[Aver]

i have never liked the idea of buying the resources you required, regardless of which form of currency you use to get it i honestly wish that went away, but the rest of the stuff is all fine by me because someone who has all that would look cooler, id be envious of but honestly when it comes to actual game-play is no better of then me, i think its fine to sell things like that for plat. i dont think its fine to let players buy resources with plat or credits also i understand how you can see it as that but you dont really need a good avatar nor a clan emblem to be really good or have fun in warframe so.. meh

 

edit: oh yea the actual numbers on the prices though, they are odd, im completely fine with buying excalibur for what hes being sold for but the rest of the frames? holy S#&$ f that, im not made of money DE, fix them prices

Edited July 30, 2013 by Aver

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Honestly I've always felt the prices are too high to be impulse buys, and too low on value to be long-term investments. The only significant buy I ever made was ember + her alt helm. But at $20USD + or your regional equivalent, it's simply a purchase I'd never make again. Three frames, and you've already paid full retail price, and there are FOURTEEN frames in the game.

I agree 100%, and you're picking the cheaper frames too.

 

Of course the argument can be made that DE isn't expecting anyone to buy all the frames outright, but if people want to, the option is there (for a price). Personally though, I've farmed every other frame since, and I wouldn't do it any other way. 10 hours + of my time is cheaper for me than $20. But DE isn't even benefiting from all this time I spend in-game, because meanwhile their impulse purchases (rushing in the foundry, cosmetic items etc) just seem too high to be worth it.

Exactly, they NEED to rework the prices, I'd be curious to see how many weapons/frames they sell really, I'd bet it's fairly low tbh.

[Mak_Gohae]

What are the questions forming in your mind?

What is the problem with giving another option on how to acquire mats? They JUST added alerts with mats on them so the free folks have gotten another option themselves.

What's the problem with your own unique clan logo that you get to create and add in-game? It's 100% cosmetic and 100% not needed. They give plat discounts which means that you can get to load up a logo for as little as 5 dollars. Hek, Steam just had a sale of their warframe packs where one of them was ten dollars for 500 plat plus other stuff. And on top of all of that they are giving out emblems too.

[CrunkTanium]

Wont spend another penny myself because i'm not a gambler and DE has designed their pay system like a Casino.

 

Some people get 20-50% discount plat deals, some have or will pay less at market as prices get shifted. Basically the more this game seems to mature the more things actually seem to cost overall. Typically in F2P games things get cheaper as more and more revenue pours in which generates even more revenue. In the case of DE they do it &#! backwards and jack the prices meaning less can then afford to pay which brings even less overall revenue. I believe there will come a point when very few will be willing or even able to continue paying long term and that will be the death knell just like what happened with Global Agenda.

 

It's not a matter of if people will pay because most of us are totally willing. But for me its principal preventing me from spending money and supporting what has in my eyes turned into a big money grab. I want to support the game but not just so others who cant afford to pay wont need to pony up a nickel. If they made prices more affordable to the masses we could all toss something in the donation box and everyone could enjoy the ever so minor perks like forum avatars. I don't know any other forum or game that makes you pay to select premade avatars relating to your most liked character.

 

Anyway once the next big title drops i'm out of here myself. I think it's obvious they will never create bosses with real AI and challenges other then increasing the levels of enemies to simply require bigger and better guns from Need to Pay resources that are becoming more and more rare. There is no real strategy required for anything in this game and I have yet to be in a group that actually failed to kill a boss. I want that feeling of actually fearing bosses (not just level difficulty) and knowing they might actually wipe my group in an instant. Then there is the issue of PVP I really hoped they would add something other then a stupid Clan only 1v1 feature.

 

All in all more of the same wont keep this game alive and the pointless grind leading to nowhere tends to get old eventually..

[Hayden11121]

What are the questions forming in your mind?

What is the problem with giving another option on how to acquire mats? They JUST added alerts with mats on them so the free folks have gotten another option themselves.

What's the problem with your own unique clan logo that you get to create and add in-game? It's 100% cosmetic and 100% not needed. They give plat discounts which means that you can get to load up a logo for as little as 5 dollars. Hek, Steam just had a sale of their warframe packs where one of them was ten dollars for 500 plat plus other stuff. And on top of all of that they are giving out emblems too.

Another option is a option to remove any work at all. It undermines those who farm. I mean you couldn't farm a Reaper Prime real easily, with mats and pieces and all, and I liked that. Even the 10 orokin cells was a challenge, but now this is just "Yea, buy your way through"

 

They just added alerts with mats. That 1 morphic really made my day.

 

What's the problem with your own unique clan logo? Well, for one, U8 was focused on clans, and much content is in clans. To either be forced to pay real money or be a peon in another clan undermines the whole U8 game for F2p'ers who want their own way in the clan.

 

100% cosmetic? Potatoes are cosmetics? Void keys? Materials? Forma? Weapons? None of these are needed? All of it is cosmetic?

 

Sometimes I swear you're just a troll, and that is coming from me, of all people.

[fatpig84]

Actually DE is indeed quite silly on the credits for plat bundles.

 

A single void pack does it for cheaper and more value.

Tier 1 exterminate is minimum 10k.

If your void pack gave you a tier 3, you are looking at 100k flat.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

What are the questions forming in your mind?

What is the problem with giving another option on how to acquire mats? They JUST added alerts with mats on them so the free folks have gotten another option themselves.

What's the problem with your own unique clan logo that you get to create and add in-game? It's 100% cosmetic and 100% not needed. They give plat discounts which means that you can get to load up a logo for as little as 5 dollars. Hek, Steam just had a sale of their warframe packs where one of them was ten dollars for 500 plat plus other stuff. And on top of all of that they are giving out emblems too.

If 50% sales are the ONLY way that the prices are ok, then they're doing something wrong. They need to fix the prices.

There is NO excuse for S#&$ty prices, not that it's cosmetic, or it's optional, or you don't HAVE to buy it.

Edited July 30, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[fatpig84]

100% cosmetic? Potatoes are cosmetics? Void keys? Materials? Forma? Weapons? None of these are needed? All of it is cosmetic?

 

Never used a Void key pack.

In fact I got major issues with people leaving Palus games on wave 5 when the first reward is tier 2 or tier 3 exterminates or raids.

 

Forma I got it from alerts login rewards and spamming Void.

Had enough to craft clan tech and forma it a few times too.

 

99% of my potatoes are crafted.

You can take out Excal Prime and Skana from that question since they came with it.

And Nyx which I bought since I had no luck after 50 Phorid runs (not even 1 component drop :( )

 

All my weapons are crafted.

My glaive wasn't even bought.

I farmed out stalker to get his full set.

 

 

War frames

All are self built except Nyx.

Loki and Excalibur is running on my built potatoes. 

Finally completed Vauban today (after 189 hours of game time) and I might potato him for lulz.

 

 

Materials = can be farmed.

But new players have it a lot tougher.

[Hayden11121]

But new players have it a lot tougher.

New players have it tougher so that way they break down quicker and buy what they want. Thank you for adding it for me.

[fatpig84]

New players have it tougher so that way they break down quicker and buy what they want. Thank you for adding it for me.

 

I won't lie that it is a lot harder, because Ruk and Hyena are significantly stronger and you need to kill em for Orokin Cells and Control Modules respectively. 

 

Although lowbies can go Raptor if they wanted, but all these foes have significant armor for their level, so a minimum rank 2 for Boltor and Kunai is a must....

Edited July 30, 2013 by fatpig84

[smithf]

Just a thought: maybe it should be made clearer that some of the market plat deals AREN'T meant to be "fair". This is sort like Market Segmentation.
e.g. Airline First Class vs Economic Class having a huge price difference because they serve different groups.

IMO, buying stuff with plats will actually damage the lifespan of the game. But this is balanced by people who have less time (working full time) but in return have more spending power, which the deals are probably targetting at. It also includes the "rush" costs which may be expensive to most players, but not those who are more short of time than money.

The dissastifaction probably comes because the option to get the "wanted" stuff is there, but the pricing is beyond what the people, for which the deals aren't targetted at, are willing to accept. This also needs to be constantly balanced somewhat by the expected difficulty to get the stuff with time vs with plats... (poor staff)

Though having pointed that out, I have no real solutions atm. Just hopefully providing additional perspective to expand the discussion.

[shadowkinz]

Thonly complaint i have about market resources is that they are too expensive lol. 30 plat should get me closer to 1k plastids. Otherwise they do need to make money tho they shouldn't go the strangle f2per route (not saying they are)

Did they really tack a plat cost to profile pics? lol.

The only prob i have otherwise is the fact that the only thing to do in this game is grind, si if u bought every weapon and frame wth would u do with them? Lol.. i kno u can work on decking them ouy but the still what do u do woth said item that is fully decked? O_o

[fatpig84]

Thonly complaint i have about market resources is that they are too expensive lol. 30 plat should get me closer to 1k plastids. Otherwise they do need to make money tho they shouldn't go the strangle f2per route (not saying they are)

Did they really tack a plat cost to profile pics? lol.

The only prob i have otherwise is the fact that the only thing to do in this game is grind, si if u bought every weapon and frame wth would u do with them? Lol.. i kno u can work on decking them ouy but the still what do u do woth said item that is fully decked? O_o

 

Look pretty ?

 

My all red Loki has...

 

Essence Helm.

Maxed all abilities.

Maxed Flow.

Maxed Constitution

Maxed Continuity

Maxed Stretch

Maxed Energy Siphon  / Maxed Radar (if gimping myself not to abuse Invisibility)

And a 25% Streamline which is only a tiny bit away from maxed.

 

And a rank 6 280% Redirection mod in case I got hit.

That gives me about 400+ shields and 225 hp. Grand total of 600+ hp.

 

I use this kit interchangeably with Nyx.

Without the need to forma but a potato and max siphon / radar is required.

 

I might need to forma if I planned to bump redirection higher, but hey who needs tank skills on tricksters like Loki and Nyx ? :p

Edited July 30, 2013 by fatpig84

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Thonly complaint i have about market resources is that they are too expensive lol. 30 plat should get me closer to 1k plastids. Otherwise they do need to make money tho they shouldn't go the strangle f2per route (not saying they are)

Oh, they are with these prices mostly.

Did they really tack a plat cost to profile pics? lol.

Ikr... 15 plat for 2 pics. Or roughly $1 for 2 pics...

The only prob i have otherwise is the fact that the only thing to do in this game is grind, si if u bought every weapon and frame wth would u do with them? Lol.. i kno u can work on decking them ouy but the still what do u do woth said item that is fully decked? O_o

[Parinirvana]

It's okay guys, that's where people like me comes in to save the day!!!!

 

Jokes aside, I think their prices are fine, I have play games that in order to Make a weapon from +8 to +9 100% chance it cost roughly $150, and this is necessary to grind maps with, so... yea

[KvotheTheArcane1]

It's okay guys, that's where people like me comes in to save the day!!!!

 

Jokes aside, I think their prices are fine, I have play games that in order to Make a weapon from +8 to +9 100% chance it cost roughly $150, and this is necessary to grind maps with, so... yea

So... your logic for overpriced weapons being ok in warframe... is other games having terrible prices too. Right, great logic.

[fatpig84]

It's okay guys, that's where people like me comes in to save the day!!!!

 

Jokes aside, I think their prices are fine, I have play games that in order to Make a weapon from +8 to +9 100% chance it cost roughly $150, and this is necessary to grind maps with, so... yea

 

Reminds me of Granado Espada.

Anyway it is true that War Frame weapons are expensive in $$$ BUT the real weapons are Clan techs weapons anyway.

[KuroNekoXlll]

point made....

alluvasuden im in a psycological war...

i think im winning tho

havent bought/speed up crud yet(although i might cave in if i could hire a more efficient builder in my foundry with plat)

[Mak_Gohae]

Another option is a option to remove any work at all. It undermines those who farm. I mean you couldn't farm a Reaper Prime real easily, with mats and pieces and all, and I liked that. Even the 10 orokin cells was a challenge, but now this is just "Yea, buy your way through"

 

 

How does it undermine people who farm?

Why do you care if some one didnt spend time farming for their mats?

How is the guy paying hurting you?

 

They just added alerts with mats. That 1 morphic really made my day.

 

I got two.

And i love how a guaranteed drop suddenly means nothing.

 

What's the problem with your own unique clan logo? Well, for one, U8 was focused on clans, and much content is in clans. To either be forced to pay real money or be a peon in another clan undermines the whole U8 game for F2p'ers who want their own way in the clan.

 

No one is forcing you to do anything.

You are not forced to have an emblem.

The idea of people being forced into anything is completely baseless.

BTW, there were already strong hints that personal emblems are coming too.

What's going to be the complain about those?

 

100% cosmetic? Potatoes are cosmetics? Void keys? Materials? Forma? Weapons? None of these are needed? All of it is cosmetic?

 

Sometimes I swear you're just a troll, and that is coming from me, of all people.

 

......................................what does Orokin, Keys, Mats, Forma, Weapons, have to do with emblems?

You know.... the thing i was discussing in my post.

 

I swear, some times people just pull things out of the void to excuse calling people names.

 

 

If 50% sales are the ONLY way that the prices are ok, then they're doing something wrong. They need to fix the prices.

There is NO excuse for S#&$ty prices, not that it's cosmetic, or it's optional, or you don't HAVE to buy it.

 

There is nothing wrong with the prices, they are just offering discounts because they want to be nice to the players.

It's 10 bucks for you own self made icon to be added in game. You folks really think this is a high price?

What F2P games are you people playing? I want to see these tremendously cheaper prices.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

There is nothing wrong with the prices, they are just offering discounts because they want to be nice to the players.

It's 10 bucks for you own self made icon to be added in game. You folks really think this is a high price?

What F2P games are you people playing? I want to see these tremendously cheaper prices.

Right, because paying $30 for a frame is a good price.

Want some games that do it right? TF2, LoL to name two VERY successful games. And other game's prices have NOTHING to do with warframe's prices. Pro tip: if something is overpriced, it's overpriced. Shocker amirite? I know you love defending everything DE, but honestly, don't you think $30 is a LITTLE much for some frames? or that $30 is a LITTLE much for ~3 weapons?