Caster Frames Should Be More Energy Efficient

[Rex101]

I know it's down to play style but Zenurik seems to be quite a necessity for ability spamming frames like Mag and Saryn.  Also spamming abilities to make use of them takes valuable time in the middle of combat. IMO Zenurik should be more of a recommended school like it is for most frames, and can still be replaced with a Trinity or Harrow.  Should there be a "hold down" mechanic for some of their abilities where they use a little bit more energy for a lot more effectiveness?  It makes the desired ability more quick, elegant, and more energy efficient to use.  Or even a "combo mechanic" like the one Rhino, Atlas, and Valkyr use for their first abilities that makes it easier to spam an ability, and awards the player for using an ability that should be used multiple times.

I'm aware that abilities need to be re-balanced but I think it adds more flexibility for builds and choice in focus schools if caster frames could more effectively cast their abilities.       

Edited November 23, 2017 by Rex101

[Rawbeard]

maximize effeciency. that's the only "fix"

[MagPrime]

Agreed.  Mag's power pool is ridiculous for the caster she's designed to be.

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

So far just upping efficiency works just fine. Mag P is basically my new go to on the plains unless i'm fishing n i'm mostly using Madurai.

Also Saryn restores energy by hitting spored enemies while toxic lash is active.

[-QUILL_PETER-]

Warframe's energy economy as a whole is completely borked and desperately needs to look at other games' methods of energy/mana gains for inspiration. It's the one thing everyone else seems to be doing better than Warframe.

[Raynalle]

if the energy can be less of a pain to get pet will be more used, vacuum is not just for "lazy" farmer, but for player who want efficency and with vacuum you are sure to grab a lot of energy and that mean stay alive a lot more, plus can give a change to player to go even with "only" 145 % not only 175%, so muh to do...

maybe just put mod on kubrow like training so when the warframe reach tot % of life/shield the kubrow will heal or charge the frame of let's say 200 enery/health every 10 second or so, pet will becamo really good and use really quickly without any broken hunter mod or crazy build like now

[SilentLogix]

29 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Agreed.  Mag's power pool is ridiculous for the caster she's designed to be.

shes easy to keep energy up with for me even without maxed efficiency, 157% duration, 100% Efficiency, 190% range, 180% strength and i rarely run out of energy

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, SilentLogix said:

shes easy to keep energy up with for me even without maxed efficiency, 157% duration, 100% Efficiency, 190% range, 180% strength and i rarely run out of energy

What content do you run her in?  Do you have (Primed) Flow equipped?

[phoenix1992]

Just now, MagPrime said:

What content do you run her in?  Do you have (Primed) Flow equipped?

She is easy for me as well, without primed flow but with 170 eff ^^

[MagPrime]

Just now, phoenix1992 said:

She is easy for me as well, without primed flow but with 170 eff ^^

Hush, you.

[SilentLogix]

Just now, MagPrime said:

What content do you run her in?  Do you have (Primed) Flow equipped?

everything from low level content up to sorties, and yes i have primed flow (not fully ranked) and on a max duration build for magnitize where i don't run with primed flow i rarely see energy issues unless im sitting in the same spot forever or not attention and keep using skills when enemies already have their armor and shield stripped. 

[Dreddeth]

The energy economy is broken pretty far in the player's favor, tbh. Efficiency is a thing, Energy Siphon is a thing, Large Energy Restores are a thing, and Zenurik, while no longer broken, is still a thing. While I do tend to maximize both Energy Pool and Power Efficiency when possible, even the builds where I can't do that, don't start having energy shortages until the game starts spamming Energy Leech Eximus units, at which point pretty much nothing you do will help.

[Foefaller]

Saryn I don't normally have energy problems with; Spores refresh duration whenever they spread, so a couple of casts will normally last quite a while. In fact, I use a *negative* efficiency build with her for some endless Sorties and rarely have to drop an energy restore (though I do use Zenurik)

Personally, when I think "waeframe hampered by current energy mechanics" I think Titania, who can get pretty powerful if you can stack all her buffs, but the 50 energy base cost of her 2 plus not being able to slot Energy Siphon to start makes it incredibly tough to get there without something feeding you energy.

[phoenix1992]

9 minutes ago, Dreddeth said:

The energy economy is broken pretty far in the player's favor, tbh. Efficiency is a thing, Energy Siphon is a thing, Large Energy Restores are a thing, and Zenurik, while no longer broken, is still a thing. While I do tend to maximize both Energy Pool and Power Efficiency when possible, even the builds where I can't do that, don't start having energy shortages until the game starts spamming Energy Leech Eximus units, at which point pretty much nothing you do will help.

But you see, this does not fit in OP's narrative of spamming abilities.

Edited November 23, 2017 by phoenix1992

[Mak_Gohae]

have some good efficiency and get energy syphon and that exilus mod that boosts the gains for aura mods. 

 

[Cifrer]

At what point do we end up having no reason to play any frames aside from "caster" frames because being able to spam abilities as well as use whatever weapons we want ends up being flat out better than needing to pick and choose when to use your abilities?

It just seems to be to be another form of power creep.

[Mintaro]

Lets think of what energy gain we have..

Energy siphon (personally think be bumped to 1 energy per second)

The digging kubrow.

Zenurik.

Energy pizza.

Arcane energize.

As far as i can think of we have some good options to gain energy in this game. Just those energy drains from eximus units i hate when playing a caster.

[-QUILL_PETER-]

10 minutes ago, Mintaro said:

Lets think of what energy gain we have..

Energy siphon (personally think be bumped to 1 energy per second)

The digging kubrow.

Zenurik.

Energy pizza.

Arcane energize.

As far as i can think of we have some good options to gain energy in this game. Just those energy drains from eximus units i hate when playing a caster.

Energy Siphon - .5 energy per sec? That's BS

Digging Kubrow is a joke.

Zenurik - Only decent option, though the forced Void Dash is getting old

Energy Pizza - These are only supposed to be needed in an emergency, not as a band-aid for BS Energy Economy. You shouldn't be able to spam these any more than you should have to.

Arcane Energize - Your worst argument yet. You need 2 full sets for it to even be viable, and they're FOUR THOUSAND A SET.

8000 plat per frame x 34 frames = 272,000 plat...just to be able to use the abilities my frame was designed to able to use, using energy that should be passively generated over time from the Tenno within...

4/5 arguments invalid. Try again.

Edited November 23, 2017 by -QUILL_PETER-

[(PSN)Chel-El]

1 hour ago, Mak_Gohae said:

have some good efficiency and get energy syphon and that exilus mod that boosts the gains for aura mods. 

 

coactial drift is the exilus mod, boosting energy siphon aura. 

max dig kubrow and spamming her passive vacuum is meta for energy especially on the plains. how beautiful it is to polarize in the plains but I digress.

when i was a brand new Tenno a YT guide said Mag is energy poor and it needs to be solved with energy mods right away. Found higher flow in trade after that lesson.

another tip is to rely on Magnetize’s longevity and semi camp with it to maximize energy spent, dps and utility. with energy siphon you are gaining energy as you camp. enough to make new magnetize and the loop is set. 

still, she had to vacuum or roll towards orbs even while camping. roll for more survivabilty but that’s another Mag issue you can solve with this: 

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by (PS4)Chel-El

[Mintaro]

3 hours ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

Energy Siphon - .5 energy per sec? That's BS

Digging Kubrow is a joke.

Zenurik - Only decent option, though the forced Void Dash is getting old

Energy Pizza - These are only supposed to be needed in an emergency, not as a band-aid for BS Energy Economy. You shouldn't be able to spam these any more than you should have to.

Arcane Energize - Your worst argument yet. You need 2 full sets for it to even be viable, and they're FOUR THOUSAND A SET.

8000 plat per frame x 34 frames = 272,000 plat...just to be able to use the abilities my frame was designed to able to use, using energy that should be passively generated over time from the Tenno within...

4/5 arguments invalid. Try again.

O.6 to be exact, opinions, opinions, opinions, opnions and yes expensive but opinions.

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Mintaro

[-QUILL_PETER-]

2 minutes ago, Mintaro said:

O.6 to be exact, opinions, opinions, opnions and yes expensive but opinions.

 

No, there's 5

 

3 hours ago, Mintaro said:

Lets think of what energy gain we have..

1) Energy siphon (personally think be bumped to 1 energy per second)

2) The digging kubrow.

3) Zenurik.

4) Energy pizza.

5) Arcane energize.

As far as i can think of we have some good options to gain energy in this game. Just those energy drains from eximus units i hate when playing a caster.

Your math skills further lessen your argument's validity.

[Mintaro]

10 minutes ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

No, there's 5

 

Your math skills further lessen your argument's validity.

Better? 

[neverplayserious]

2 hours ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

No, there's 5

 

Your math skills further lessen your argument's validity.

He's talking about energy siphon which is 0.6/s

[(PSN)robotwars7]

personally i don't struggle with energy, but I see where you're coming from. unfortunately your idea of caster frames having basically infinite energy is kinda broken, and DE is against endless cost-free spamming, as we've seen with Ash, Mesa and other frame reworks. just gonna have to keep using Zenurik and the occasional Pizza to keep on top of things. and use efficiency mods, even if it's just a Streamline.

Edited November 23, 2017 by (PS4)robotwars7

[Imniscor]

- Never used a pizza
- Never use Energy Syphon
- Don't have Zenurik
- Don't have Arcane Energize
- Never use companion because I don't want things to play the game for me (although I do have many sentinels and a kubrow)

I sometimes use weapons that proc energy.
Prisma Obex, Mire and I know there are others.

Nearly all of my builds are Quick Thinking builds, where I put lots of armor + quick thinking, if the frame has decent armor without mods OR Quick Thinking plus lots of health.
In both cases I use Rage, Primed Flow, 2x10 Arcane Graces.
I will only use Streamline if the frame's base energy is higher than his base health, which because of Quick Thinking, makes sense.
Pain Threshold, is a necessity when using Quick Thinking. You will still be staggered if they get to your Energy pool, but you will be able to react.
As for the Aura, I prefer Corrosive Projection on tanky frames(invincible or super armored), such as Inaros, Wukong, Chroma and Hydroid.
Stand United, in medium armored frames, like Excal Prime, Nidus, Oberon(full Power Strenght build with constant healing and armor from 2 & 3) 
Rejuvenation in frames with low armor.

With Quick Thinking, each 1 point of Energy will behave as 2.4 health, or 2.7 with Streamline. Armor will increase this even further. Health will be like your shield, but used mainly for getting energy with Rage and secondly for survival.

Inefficient energy frames, such as Titania, I will go full duration to decrease the drain from the toggles.

In rare cases, I will use Equilibrium, to help with energy/healing.

Finally, I always run with Life Strike, the exceptions being Inaros and Oberon. 1 channeled melee hit (with a strong weapon), you will be healed to at least half your HP bar (talking lvl 100 enemies here).

My playstyle is melee, so I tend to shoot only the nullifiers.
Being in melee makes me get hit more often, taking hits into my health - sometimes on purpose, regaining energy and recovering my health with Life Strike.
It's more sustainable than being away firing a gun - but takes more skill and is more fun too. If I wanted to play firearms I'd rather play BF1, but I'm a space ninja!

Edited November 23, 2017 by Imniscor