Exclude Previous Prizes From The Pool In Defense Missions?

[GoonBoon]

This would provide an actual incentive to sticking around to higher waves. Also the idea would be that it would exclude specific mods/keys that have shown up, not all mods/keys, otherwise you'd be able to game it pretty hard by wave 15.

[LeAtlas]

it is a good thing, but then, that makes getting master thief and other rare mods easily obtainable

[TemetNosce]

it is a good thing, but then, that makes getting master thief and other rare mods easily obtainable

 

There are sixteen possible rewards in that pool, that's a lot of rewards to discount at a rate of one every five levels. Although it'd certainly make it easier, I'm not sure it'd make it easy, particularly given that people would need to actually keep playing. Honestly, I think the biggest benefit is not the increased likelihood of people who hang on getting rewards, but the increased likelihood of people hanging on. Lately it seems as though people quit for almost anything.

[Stormandreas]

This does annoy me a bit that we could constatly get the same mod for like, 3-4 sets of waves, but as LeAtlas said, it would mean getting the rare stuff is far to easy.

[Seraphyx]

Might be a good idea but I feel like they would have to rework some of the rates. Since people can fairly easily get up to waves 20-40 with a decent random group it might make it too easy to obtain certain mods.

 

I also like the fact that it is so random because you can get something great on wave 5/10/15. On the other hand maybe this would encourage people to work together better in order to get to the higher waves for a higher chance at better rewards. But, this would all but screw people with not much time on their hands. As it is now they can play a defense mission and have a pretty decent chance at getting something good in a short amount of time.

 

Very torn between the two ideas.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Seraphyx

[Neruell]

I would rather prefer a total redesign of defense missions. Endless defense was never meant to be actually endless that's what DE said. The RNG is a bid weird in logic about going into endless defense because rather getting a higher chance of getting something better than before you still stay at total RNG which kind of doesn't make any sense to even go beyond wave 5. Also you barely have time or anything to get the crates around the map without cryopod dying. So they must either remove the crates and make higher chance of drops from enemies or add some kind of bigger breaks in between waves.

[WhiteTrick]

+1

[Hybridon]

They have to rebalance the chances, not exclude previous prizes, imho.

 

Atm the chances are so screwed up, that you reach wave 50 and still get Heated Charge, a Uncommon mod as a wave 50 prize? 1-2 hours playing for that is gamebreaking.

[TemetNosce]

They have to rebalance the chances, not exclude previous prizes, imho.

 

Atm the chances are so screwed up, that you reach wave 50 and still get Heated Charge, a Uncommon mod as a wave 50 prize? 1-2 hours playing for that is gamebreaking.

 

I don't see how rebalancing them would help unless they made it account for waves passed, and even then that's pretty much what this does. It incentizes playing longer with more likelihood of getting what you want.

[Hybridon]

I don't see how rebalancing them would help unless they made it account for waves passed, and even then that's pretty much what this does. It incentizes playing longer with more likelihood of getting what you want.

 

We have 16 items in the pool... so that would be a total of 80 waves depending on the prize and luck.

 

We do need rebalancing first so that the prizes are first possible at good enough chances.

 

But thats just my opinion ofc.

[TemetNosce]

We have 16 items in the pool... so that would be a total of 80 waves depending on the prize and luck.

 

We do need rebalancing first so that the prizes are first possible at good enough chances.

 

But thats just my opinion ofc.

 

I'm still not entirely sure what you mean. The prizes are currently possible even at level 5, or do you mean you want increased chances of prizes at low waves? I don't really agree with that to be honest.

[fatpig84]

Basically the Op is asking for exclusion no ?

 

Palus

Wave 5 = Heated charge

Wave 10 = WON'T spawn heated charge. Tier 2 Void Key

Wave 15 = Won't spawn heated charge and Tier 2 void key.

Spawns T3 Void key

 

and so on and so forth.

 

I can see this is an incentive to do high wave defs, but there should be a limit on how far exclusion can go.

Like maybe stopping after 10 items ? That leaves 6 items that can still roll randomly.

Edited July 31, 2013 by fatpig84

[kgb_cyborg]

I've suggested this before, but the problem is it DOES require a redesign of endless defense at some level to make sense. In particular, if you're after drops from Tier 1 defense, this wouldn't help at all, because only the wave 5 reward picks from the Tier 1 drop table. Similar problem with Tier 2 defense.

 

There is another drop table revision underway, so it'll be worth seeing what ideas from the community get taken on board with that one. As far as complete exclusion goes, even with a redesign of defense to make it viable with T1 and T2 defense, it might be a bit too much really. The adoption of something like the Alerts 2.0 algorithm for defense rewards might be more appropriate, i.e. if the squad turns down the wave 5 reward then the chances of that reward dropping again are reduced for the rest of the mission, with a corresponding increase in the chance of everything else dropping. If the wave 10 reward is also declined, then the chances of that reward dropping are reduced, again with a corresponding increase in the chances of everything else dropping, including the wave 5 reward (nowhere near enough to return to its original chances, obviously).

 

Then again, it may be simpler and more effective to increase the chance of uncommon and rare drops as a squad reaches higher waves, or even advance to entirely new drop tables as certain waves are reached. It really depends on what the latest rework of drop tables entails! And it certainly relies on a streamlining of the current T1/T2/T3 defense breakdown (which got a bit broken in U9 - 23 of the defense missions are now T3 only, 2 start at T2, and 4 start at T1).

[zyraconne]

I can see this is an incentive to do high wave defs, but there should be a limit on how far exclusion can go.

Like maybe stopping after 10 items ? That leaves 6 items that can still roll randomly.

That, and maybe adding stuff to the initial pool, and stuff that won't appear until later tiers (basically going further than Tier 3). Makes it you HAVE to go past a certain wave to get some stuff (which is the point in the first place).

 

I kinda agree with this idea as to not get shafted by the RNG. Still haunted by the 6 weeks on-and-off grinding to get that Banshee Helmet (and of course, disappointed by it).

 

But then again people are already crying to not make the game revolve on only defense type missions.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

Maybe just ensure we can't get duplicate rewards, I'd be happy with that really. So if I get hellfire on wave five, I can't get hellfire again on wave ten. But I could get it at fifteen.

[Relkin]

I'm all for it.  Anything to start putting the nails in the coffin of the RNG crutch which DE is using for life support. 

[fatpig84]

I'm all for it.  Anything to start putting the nails in the coffin of the RNG crutch which DE is using for life support. 

 

RNG isn't bad to me recently.

But yeah starters have it tough.

[KuroNekoXlll]

i wanna be able to take all the rewards from previously completed waves....

i dont like it when a mod pops up that 1 guy needs but no one else does, well what do you do.... leave and claim the mod or not

[Hybridon]

I'm still not entirely sure what you mean. The prizes are currently possible even at level 5, or do you mean you want increased chances of prizes at low waves? I don't really agree with that to be honest.

 

Atm to get a tier 2 Capture/Defense/Mobile Defense key you have a 1.84% chance and only on tier 2 waves, meaning on Xini for example, you have no chance at all. On Jupiter (Io) you have a chance at those on wave 5 and 10, after that you are stuck with the same prizes as Xini. On Venera, a tier 1 defense, you have 3.69% chance at a tier 1 key, then on wave 10 you have a 1.84% chance at a tier 2 key, and then on 15 you are stuck with the same chances as Xini.

 

What I mean is, if they dont rebalance these percentages, it will be idiotic. Atm for a tier 1 key from the new mission types, that is necessary to complete the Prime weapons, I have to go to wave 5 and 10 on low leveled planets, quit and repeat till I get one of them.

 

Thats why they need to rebalance chances and prizes, before implementing something like this, and still Id be against that, Im all over increased chances or pool choices as you go further on on high defense waves. Lets say you reached 10 on Xini, you get a higher chance at better stuff, and the bad stuff lowers the chance... you get to 20 instead of 1 prize, you get a chance at 2 prizes that you can choose.

 

Something like that so we are incentived to go to higher waves. Heck, maybe even at the end of the defense you get to choose X prizes out of the offered, so lets say you went to wave 20 and passed 3 T3 keys and a Heated Charge. At the end you get to keep 50% of the prizes and you choose.

 

The thing is the whole endless defense needs a overhal to praise who aims to get to higher levels, and not the wave 5, qit, wave 5, quit till you get what you want.

[Relkin]

RNG isn't bad to me recently.

But yeah starters have it tough.

Not just starters though :/ I just want content that doesn't involve doing the same thing over and over.  It gets old :(

[Ketec]

how about extra reward as certain milestones pass - for ex two mods at 20+, 3 mods at 40+, 4 mods at 60+? And at similar milestones somehow  respawn the brekable containers/lockers?

I personally never go beyond 15 - if i dont get what i need or im there for exp or resources - going beyond is usually waste of time - each wave takes way longer to finish. Its faster to remake 15 levels and get all the breakables again aswell.

[TemetNosce]

The thing is the whole endless defense needs a overhal to praise who aims to get to higher levels, and not the wave 5, qit, wave 5, quit till you get what you want.

 

That was a lot clearer, and I definitely agree with you on this part. However, while the ridiculous paucity of T1s is definitely an issue, I'd consider it something to be fixed separately (perhaps by locking T1s into T1 rather than having mutating reward pools), than an argument against this idea. That said, I admit I'd take your idea as well. At this point I'm simply frustrated by the lack of acknowledgement in the rewards of the increased time investment and difficulty of higher waves. It's effectively the true end game of Warframe at present, and yet it's completely disincentivized.