Frost: My Personal Opinion About His Abilities.

[Zareek]

Okay I'll probably get a lot of hate for this, but here goes.

 

I enjoy playing my frost prime, but Ive noticed that I only see 2 abilities used by other frosts, which is snow globe, and avalanche..

I think Frost needs a buff, and I got a few ideas on how to make his other abilities worth using. I'm gonna list several ideas for each ability. I dont necessarily think that all of my ideas for an ability would go well together.

 

Freeze:

 

1. Make it a timed freeze, so damage doesn't cancel it out.

2. Make it an aoe freeze, so on impact it'll freeze everything within a certain radius.

3. Make the ability itself a coned aoe freeze (Popular suggestion from PsychedelicSnake)

 

Ice Wave:

 

1. increase the amount of "Slow" that this skill does, and prevent ancients from sprinting while under the effect.

2. Increase the overall damage of this skill

3. Leaves a mist of cold air that will damage everything walking indside of it.

 

Snow globe:

 

I cant think of anything to this ability, I think its as good as it should be.

 

Avalanche:

 

1. Each enemy killed by this skill, leaves behind a mist of cold air

2. Make it a 2 hit ability, with different animations.

 

 

I think some of these would make frost a better frame overall. I love some of his abilities, especially ice wave, but they just arent worth using on higher levels.

 

Give me your thoughts, tell me if my ideas have potential, or if they suck.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Zareek

[X3Evanescence]

Hate? Why, this is good. No, I wouldnt say I hate this, but prioritising on other Warframes which are in desperate need for a rework (Mag, Volt) is what we should be going for. Definitely supporting this idea, but apparently there are other Warframes in need.

EDIT: Spellchecked.

Edited July 30, 2013 by X3Evanescence

[PsychedelicSnake]

Freeze:

 

1. Make it a timed freeze, so damage doesn't cancel it out.

2. make it an aoe freeze, so on impact it'll freeze everything within a certain radius.

Instead of an AoE, I personally think it should be in a cone in front of where you aim, that way it isn't just a not-as-strong Avalanche.

[Zareek]

Hate? Why, this is good. No, I wouldnt say I hate this, but prioritising on other Warframes which are in desperate need for a rework (Mag, Volt) is what we should be going for. Definitely supporting this idea, but apparently there are other Warframes in need.

EDIT: Spellchecked.

I agree that some frames need a rework before frost. Thanks for supporting my ideas though.

 

 

 

Instead of an AoE, I personally think it should be in a cone in front of where you aim, that way it isn't just a not-as-strong Avalanche.

Hm, I actually like that idea. Like a frost breath perhaps? :P

Edited July 30, 2013 by Zareek

[X3Evanescence]

Instead of an AoE, I personally think it should be in a cone in front of where you aim, that way it isn't just a not-as-strong Avalanche.

This.

Freeze also should not be negated by any form of damage. The frozen enemy should remain frozen, not thawing out just because 1 bullet hit it.

[KillerDanstar]

Nice ideas, I'm all for the Aoe on freeze. I think out of all of Frosts abilities freeze at the very least needs a buff.

[Hybridon]

I like the chain reaction ideas, Nova uses that and uses it well in her favor, his shouldnt be as damage dealer (I know you didnt say anything about it) and yes a CC, thus why the freeze, like Rhino has the stomp and keeps people lifted.

 

Great ideas OP, and agree with the above about freeze not being AOE.

[Zareek]

I like the chain reaction ideas, Nova uses that and uses it well in her favor, his shouldnt be as damage dealer (I know you didnt say anything about it) and yes a CC, thus why the freeze, like Rhino has the stomp and keeps people lifted.

 

Great ideas OP, and agree with the above about freeze not being AOE.

Exactly, I was thinking that since Novas ulti has so many benefits AND creating a chain reaction, it would be a nice addition to frosts avalanche. it doesn't deal that much damage if you think about it.

[Grulos]

Avalanche should be a CC ultimate, like freezing/slowing all enemies in the area of effect for a certain amount of time, while doing damage/making them more vulnerable to damage.

 

Add a small AoE for Freeze and higher (or armor ignoring) Ive Wave damage.

 

Boom, perfect Frost.

[Hybridon]

Exactly, I was thinking that since Novas ulti has so many benefits AND creating a chain reaction, it would be a nice addition to frosts avalanche. it doesn't deal that much damage if you think about it.

 

Avalanche is pathetic at higher waves other than against no armor enemies such as light infested.

 

If you add in a 5/7/9/11 freeze being able to make that higher with Continuity, it gets on par with Rhinos Stomp, Vaubans Bastille, Novas MP (the slow down + 1.75 damage increase) and brings him up to there level.

 

Along with other useful abilities at lower costs, such as Freeze etc. That way Frost would be made more viable on infested maps, other than only shooting factions.

 

I do think this is what is needed to get frames all to Nova/Rhino/Vaubans level, make them useful on any faction, even if they are stronger on certain maps, like vauban on Infested, yet still have there pros on other maps, thus why avalanche needs that freeze, cause the Globe is actually bad on infested maps in almost all perspectives.

[OzzyJones]

Mhmmm *nodds in agreement with everyone* they should also make Avalanche more flashy like it looks sooooo dull. Make it look like he is casting a powerful spell or summin.

[Zareek]

Mhmmm *nodds in agreement with everyone* they should also make Avalanche more flashy like it looks sooooo dull. Make it look like he is casting a powerful spell or summin.

That's why 1 of my ideas was to make it a 2 hit ability. Depending on the animation, it could look so much cooler. The animators have proved themselves extremely skilled (considering bladestorms new animation), so that shouldnt be impossible.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I love the idea of making Freeze a cone ability.  No damage though, just pure CC.  Enemies within 4m let's say are frozen and enemies within 10m are slowed.  The cone width would be what...  30 degrees?

 

Ice Wave is always something I've felt seemed a bit odd.  If it staggered enemies, it could be useful.  The best idea I've ever seen though was "icing" the ground behind it, making enemies that try to run over the ground where it's been fall over if all of their legs are on the iced surface.  The effect would only last for something like 4 seconds, but it would be a pretty nice way to crowd-control a column of enemies.

 

Snow Globe is one of the best abilities in the game, obviously no changes needed.

 

I'm not a terribly big fan of your change to Avalanche, but eh, that's just me.  If enemies were just frozen for a bit after the damage was dealt, I think that'd be good.

 

Personally, I'd love to see Frost not as a damage-dealer, but as a CC king.  I can agree that he could use some love in certain regards, but obviously he's not a priority and shouldn't be.

[Zareek]

I love the idea of making Freeze a cone ability.  No damage though, just pure CC.  Enemies within 4m let's say are frozen and enemies within 10m are slowed.  The cone width would be what...  30 degrees?

 

Ice Wave is always something I've felt seemed a bit odd.  If it staggered enemies, it could be useful.  The best idea I've ever seen though was "icing" the ground behind it, making enemies that try to run over the ground where it's been fall over if all of their legs are on the iced surface.  The effect would only last for something like 4 seconds, but it would be a pretty nice way to crowd-control a column of enemies.

 

Snow Globe is one of the best abilities in the game, obviously no changes needed.

 

I'm not a terribly big fan of your change to Avalanche, but eh, that's just me.  If enemies were just frozen for a bit after the damage was dealt, I think that'd be good.

 

Personally, I'd love to see Frost not as a damage-dealer, but as a CC king.  I can agree that he could use some love in certain regards, but obviously he's not a priority and shouldn't be.

The cone idea seems to be something a lot of people agree with, and I can actually see how it would work, people are giving different versions of it though.

 

I was considering adding "Push back" on my ice wave ideas, but Im not sure how I feel about that yet. I like the idea you gave with "icing" though. It's a different kind of cc than the one I suggested, but cc none the less.

 

Also, my logic for the 2 hit ability change for avalanche, was that it would keep the enemies caught in the ability  for a longer duration. More CC. I did actually consider "extra freeze time" after the ability ended, but Im not a big fan of the current "freeze", how it ends because they get hit.

 

Thanks for your comment though, I appreciate the feedback!

Edited July 30, 2013 by Zareek

[DLz47]

Avalanche really is pathetic with high level enemy! I have frost and frost prime and against high level mobs, I see some warframe, kill enemies (for ex. Nova). They don't just hit mobs but kill them! I'm disappointed. Is usefull just the globe (but not on infested).Yes avalanche hits the mobs, icewave hits plus slow down and freeze hits and stops but if the enemies are high lvl the hit is not that much and no one die also the slowing is not good (except the globe)! And i have focus maxed. I like frost abilities and i like your ideas but first of all we need more power on avalanche,ice wave and freeze and more slow/stop!

Edited July 31, 2013 by DLz47

[Discooooo]

i think if avalanche and ice wave would just ignore armor this would help a lot!

 

i am not able to one-shot grineer light units above lvl 42-ish where rhino-stomp gets up to lvl 60-ish

 

this happens to become a problem when you play missions like one of the yesterdays alerts where the initial wave started against lvl 43 grinerr and ended with somehting around lvl 70

 

the only usefull skill was the globe for defending the pod - using any other skill was just a plain waste of energy (or the only way to at least buy some seconds of time because of the aoe-freeze avalanche brings) - on lvl 60 enemies avalanche did like 1/6 damage to their health - and i am talking about light grineer!

 

i think pushing the overall difficulty of the game was a good idea - but some of the frames are just not usefull against high lvl enemies anymore (at least if they don't have one single ability that might helps the team like the globe against enemies that shoot)

 

 

i think all ultimates should ignore armor and kill light enemies up to high levels - on low levels you one-shot them anyway with the ult so buffing all frames ultimates to ignore armor wouldnt make any difference to low lvl missions but help higher level missions a lot!

[Zareek]

i think if avalanche and ice wave would just ignore armor this would help a lot!

 

i am not able to one-shot grineer light units above lvl 42-ish where rhino-stomp gets up to lvl 60-ish

 

this happens to become a problem when you play missions like one of the yesterdays alerts where the initial wave started against lvl 43 grinerr and ended with somehting around lvl 70

 

the only usefull skill was the globe for defending the pod - using any other skill was just a plain waste of energy (or the only way to at least buy some seconds of time because of the aoe-freeze avalanche brings) - on lvl 60 enemies avalanche did like 1/6 damage to their health - and i am talking about light grineer!

 

i think pushing the overall difficulty of the game was a good idea - but some of the frames are just not usefull against high lvl enemies anymore (at least if they don't have one single ability that might helps the team like the globe against enemies that shoot)

 

 

i think all ultimates should ignore armor and kill light enemies up to high levels - on low levels you one-shot them anyway with the ult so buffing all frames ultimates to ignore armor wouldnt make any difference to low lvl missions but help higher level missions a lot!

The reason why I didnt suggest "ignore armor" is because I really have no clue what it involves.

[Hejt]

Except than Ice Wave and Avalanche ignoring armor, Ice Wave could also leave the ice trail like the one from Orokin Void missions.

And cone AoE Freeze is a great idea.

[kgb_cyborg]

I love the idea of making Freeze a cone ability.  No damage though, just pure CC.  Enemies within 4m let's say are frozen and enemies within 10m are slowed.  The cone width would be what...  30 degrees?

 

Ice Wave is always something I've felt seemed a bit odd.  If it staggered enemies, it could be useful.  The best idea I've ever seen though was "icing" the ground behind it, making enemies that try to run over the ground where it's been fall over if all of their legs are on the iced surface.  The effect would only last for something like 4 seconds, but it would be a pretty nice way to crowd-control a column of enemies.

 

Snow Globe is one of the best abilities in the game, obviously no changes needed.

 

I'm not a terribly big fan of your change to Avalanche, but eh, that's just me.  If enemies were just frozen for a bit after the damage was dealt, I think that'd be good.

 

Personally, I'd love to see Frost not as a damage-dealer, but as a CC king.  I can agree that he could use some love in certain regards, but obviously he's not a priority and shouldn't be.

Absolutely that last part. Should be all about slowing and immobilisation. Freeze does it, but is useless. Avalanche does it for a fraction of a second. Snow Globe does it, and is the only one that does it well, but the funny thing is that's not even the primary reason people use Snow Globe! Not that I'm saying Snow Globe should be changed, it's just funny that Snow Globe's primary utility is not even something you'd expect from a cold-based frame. A couple of alternatives to Snow Globe would be pretty nice though. A bigger Electric Shield, even an Electric Dome has been a common suggestion for Volt. Doesn't slow enemies down, but amplifies outgoing damage and could deal damage to enemies passing through/inside.

[EagleRise]

I was about to start the same topic myself.

 

while Frosts abilitys are awesome, visually, they are extremely lacking damage wise.

I mean, with ice wave i'm doing 90 damage to normal Grineers at high levels, my gun can do more with one bullet, and it shoots 2 each time.

my Idea to fix Ice wave is to change the damage type to Serrated blade (lets be honest here, the point of that ability is to cut your enemies with ice, not to freeze them).

Avalanche is also terrible damage wish, practically useless after level 25-30 (20 for Grineer).

here we can fix it in 2 ways IMO, either buff the damage/change the damage type OR change how it works all together and make its Freezing effect the main point of the ability (so basically make it freeze the enemies for a longer period of time).

snow globe is perfect as it is.

and I dont use Freeze so I cant really comment on that (all I know is that every on in my clan say its terrible). 

Edited July 31, 2013 by EagleRise

[Zareek]

I was about to start the same topic myself.

 

while Frosts abilitys are awesome, visually, they are extremely lacking damage wise.

I mean, with ice wave i'm doing 90 damage to normal Grineers at high levels, my gun can do more with one bullet, and it shoots 2 each time.

my Idea to fix Ice wave is to change the damage type to Serrated blade (lets be honest here, the point of that ability is to cut your enemies with ice, not to freeze them).

Avalanche is also terrible damage wish, practically useless after level 25-30 (20 for Grineer).

here we can fix it in 2 ways IMO, either buff the damage/change the damage type OR change how it works all together and make its Freezing effect the main point of the ability (so basically make it freeze the enemies for a longer period of time).

snow globe is perfect as it is.

and I dont use Freeze so I cant really comment on that (all I know is that every on in my clan say its terrible). 

Avalanche is indeed not a very good damage ability. I've discussed the ability with a fair amount of people, and a lot of people want it to be better CC, instead of making it a "clear room" ability.

[Geisterklinge]

I agree, I really like Ice Wave as a skill but damagewise it becomes useless in higher levels. I also agree with having Avalanche changed to something more focused on CC as it would somewhat emphasize Frosts supporty role and also serve to diversify the warframes a bit as of now almost every frame has a PBAoE - #4 skill :/

Concerning Freeze I'm a bit at loss, maybe what the OP said and have it stay in spite of damage, or make them vulnerable against Physical Impact Type damage while frozen, thinking about the whole shattering brittle ice thing.

[Yurinaga]

Freeze:

1. Make it a timed freeze, so damage doesn't cancel it out.

2. Make it an aoe freeze, so on impact it'll freeze everything within a certain radius.

3. Make the ability itself a coned aoe freeze (Popular suggestion from PsychedelicSnake)

Yeah, the problem with Freeze is that's easy to miss with sometimes, especially at mid-long range, far TOO easily cancelled by stray bullets, has only negligible damage scaling with mod level, which makes anything above rank 0 wasted mod points and only works on one target for some arbitrary reason. I say make it a hit-scan blast (like the Vor freeze bit in the trailer) with an AoE knockdown effect that deals some damage to those caught in the blast radius and none to the primary target who most importantly, cannot be prematurely thawed and possibly also takes extra damage for the duration.

Ice Wave:

1. increase the amount of "Slow" that this skill does, and prevent ancients from sprinting while under the effect.

2. Increase the overall damage of this skill

3. Leaves a mist of cold air that will damage everything walking indside of it.

Avalanche:

1. Each enemy killed by this skill, leaves behind a mist of cold air

2. Make it a 2 hit ability, with different animations.

Indeed, they both only have damage going for them at the moment - which gets totally screwed over by the current armour scaling system - and if any target happens to survive (which happens a hell of a lot more as of Update 9!) then I'm left thinking "wasted energy!" because said survivors don't so much as flinch and just go back to shooting/clawing me unabated, like pressing 4 only made them briefly forget what they came in here for!

Yes, I definitely like the cold mist idea, maybe also add a slight damage/damage reduction debuff for anyone caught in it.

I think that 2-stage process is an excellent idea! The first being the stagger/freeze effect and the second being the damage, which if they happen to survive, who cares? They're trapped and ripe for the killing. Same principle as the new Rhino Stomp, really.

Also, I think the animation should be changed so that he raises his hand level with his head and just clenches his fist at the end because his current, overly expansive gestures look silly IMO especially considering the lacklustre results.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Yurinaga

[GetAtMeMods]

Im up for some specialized stealth kills.

First freeze someone. Then rip their spinal cord out. Fatality. :D

[xanroth]

hmm how about that with ice wave the spikes slows and launches enemies it erupts directly below into the air and perhaps deal damage if they land on them or perhaps they would block like a wall for a short while could that work?

 

and for avalanche what if when you first activate it it freeze for some time dealing no damage but if you activate it again while there are enemies still frozen you "shatter" them dealing damage (second activation costs nothing of course) could that work?

 

hope i made sense.