Can we talk about Trinity? [Trinity ideas discussion]

[Angelid]

On 12/13/2017 at 9:47 AM, Etomb said:

I've always thought Trinity was fine; maybe in need of EV being reworked.

1- Shoot bad guy for health. It's a hp fill up station. I see no problems there.

2-Meant to be balanced by its limited range, however really isn't. Especially with range mods on. Maybe make it so that the enemy directly feeds energy only to those who have directly hurt it. Like ability one, except in bursts.

3- Keeps Trinity on her feet, since there aren't any powerful offensive abilities to help kill stuff before it hits you too hard.

4- Meant to save lives; its main function is not damage resistance. That is there to keep your heal from being meaningless; granting a buffer while people remove themselves from whatever situation they got caught in.

You forget her passive, the one second off (base 4, for her 3) timer for picking up teammates.
The reason I bring this up is that at most she still only gets a 92.5% (or somewhere close) damage mitigation with both her 3 and 4 active at max strength for both (both having hard caps at 75% ea). Most warframes with similar damage reduction goes up to 95%, and even then most of them can't stand still for three or more seconds taking a huge amount of enemy fire in high level missions (On top of the fact she's THE most fragile frame in the game compounds this to the point it's very unlikely you can actually pick up anyone for your passive to be useful).

My issue with trinity isn't that she isn't fine-- Pre-rework Nekros was fine too, but they reworked him to not be so button spammy-- and on that logic she should have been touched up LONG ago.

Sorry it took me some time to respond, I had to deal with some things before jumping back into Warframe.

[AcceptYourDeath]

I think Trinity is slowly but surely falling behind in gameplay and usefulness and more so recently. 

Endless energy for a team and solid damage reduction will probably never really fall out of fashion, but from her perspective what she does and how she plays leaves something to desire in todays Warframe. At least in my opinion! 

Nekros was released from his loot slavery, Trinity should be freed from her energy slavery while still providing it to roughly the same degree?   

95% damage reduction or tankiness in general is also not a very unique or exclusive thing for her to have as it used to be, it`s not outstanding or a classifying trademark for her. Alot of Warframes can eat bullets nowadays.  

I don`t want to see her pushed into a hybrid role, where she for some reason also deals damge (I mean she can do focused damage with true scaling if necessary -right?).

Some people like that very passive and supportive playstyle and the option is available with Trinity. 

 

What I would like to see for Trinity is a more fluid gameplay. That would mean all abilitys can be used during jumping/running and slightly faster animations! Maybe the length for cast animations wouldn`t be a problem anymore if she could move during it?   

And I think she could actually use additional effects on her abilitys, of course more on the light side of the specturm. Some reload speed, some sprint speed, some bullet jump increase, some holster rate....etc. etc.   effects which gets your team going! 

-edit-

Her #1 is probably outdated and redundant with its healing component

Edited February 16, 2018 by AcceptYourDeath

[Kayll]

Trinity is my most played frame by far,shes always been really strong and welcomed into a group for Energy and/or Damage reduction, but honestly if she was revamped I wouldn't hate it. Over time though there have been more and more ways to get energy for every frame, so her energy restore isn't really needed unless doing something REALLY energy heavy.

Her passive is kind of meh, always thought it should be a small passive heal increase to the entire team.

I rarely cast her 1, its pretty terrible and in the shadow of blessing which is much easier to use effectively,and having multiple ways to heal seems a bit redundant since you can't exactly do them at the same time.
A few Ideas I have had for her 1..
•Removing the "shoot to heal" portion entirely, having it be a short channel that does damage over time, and each tick of damage makes a health orb pop out of him.
•Simple CC like people have suggested earlier in this thread.
•Instant Ranged ress if targeting an ally,maybe causing debuffs of some sort to the surrounding enemies. (Maya in Borderlands)
•Toggled buff given to a targeted ally, giving increased max HP/Armor/Shields, for that one guy that always enters missions with no Redirection/Vitality.
•Charming a single enemy, buffing them greatly and causing them to fight for you, with the ability to make them stay in one position like Spectres.
•Ground targeted literal "well of life" smart targeting allies near it and sending health/shields into them in the event that they get damaged.

That's all I can really remember at the moment,not that I expect any of these to become a reality.. just fun "what ifs" I thought up at some point.


Also "What" at @Etomb's post, Well of Life being ok as it is currently,EV functioning like current Well of Life(the reason no one uses it),and Blessing not being used for damage resistances.
I got no clue what version of Trinity you're playing but it sounds pretty awful.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Kayll

[Angelid]

On 2/16/2018 at 12:41 AM, AcceptYourDeath said:

 

I agree completely! It's why I was very sad and annoyed that they looked at, of all people, Ash (for the second time!). I understood he was a little lackluster for damage and the fluidity was a little lacking-- but seriously!? 'Oh look who's doing too much damage- or not enough'... -sigh I won't reiterate my post, but Trinity should have been the top of their recent list of changes to warframes, with as much attention they were giving to them.

 

On 2/16/2018 at 3:41 AM, Kayll said:

 

It's a lack of consistency and counter-productiveness in her kit I honestly want addressed. I would love it if they just made her a 'stand back healer' like many mmos generally have. But Warframe, in general, kind of disallowed that, which is why she needs the bit of tankiness-- at least, she did, though now-a-days many people can handle themselves or just do the job of shedding damage for allies better (cough inaros/harrow cough). The worst offender to the counter-productivity is her passive. She's supposed to keep everyone alive, and she can't exactly pick anyone up fast enough in a firefight (especially higher levels), regardless of if it were five seconds, four seconds, or even one second. Honestly, I would love to see a warframe version of OverWatch's Moira for what trinity could have been (for anyone who doesn't know, Moira is a healer/damage dealer that can do one or the other, with her ult doing both as a huge "imafirenmylazar" beam, as well as a secondary resource for burst healing that replenishes far faster when she actually deals damage).

I do like the idea of an insta-res, I have seen it thrown around though there would have to be a huge cost for it (most of your energy or perhaps most of your own hp or something). Also there's been plenty of talk of the literal pool of life, I'll add your name to the list for that if you'd like :)

Thanks, guys, for the suggestions, keep it up! Hoping this catches a dev's eye someday.  -Hopes beyond hope -

[EinheriarJudith]

if you don't want to play a backline healer don't. one cannot expect trinity to vanguard like oberon or harrow. trinity is quite strong in the things she does. boost duration of link and we are good to go. if i want to play damage dealing healer ill pick the other obvious choices.

[Angelid]

On 2/20/2018 at 11:11 PM, EinheriarJudith said:

if you don't want to play a backline healer don't. one cannot expect trinity to vanguard like oberon or harrow. trinity is quite strong in the things she does. boost duration of link and we are good to go. if i want to play damage dealing healer ill pick the other obvious choices.

My issues with her don't stem from being a back-line healer, as much as it might sound like.

The biggest problem I have is the fact that DE went and looked at Nekros for the same things that Trinity now currently suffers from-- un-fun spam tactics that don't reward anything other than that one playstyle, and if you have the very difficult to obtain setup (for newer players at least) the Link builds. There are other Niche builds that are fun, but for the sake of high level missions or 'Try harding', you don't use anything other than those two builds.

If they made her a backline healer that actually rewarded the player for keeping people alive, or at least didn't punish you when you couldn't, I could see it working out. But the fact I have to be relegated to 'making sure the team stays alive and (in the case of Eidolon hunting) the Lures don't go down' if I play her makes for boring gameplay and has the difficulty much higher than it should be, simply by arbitrary means.

[Dr.Wuzzah]

1 hour ago, Angelid said:

My issues with her don't stem from being a back-line healer, as much as it might sound like.

The biggest problem I have is the fact that DE went and looked at Nekros for the same things that Trinity now currently suffers from-- un-fun spam tactics that don't reward anything other than that one playstyle, and if you have the very difficult to obtain setup (for newer players at least) the Link builds. There are other Niche builds that are fun, but for the sake of high level missions or 'Try harding', you don't use anything other than those two builds.

If they made her a backline healer that actually rewarded the player for keeping people alive, or at least didn't punish you when you couldn't, I could see it working out. But the fact I have to be relegated to 'making sure the team stays alive and (in the case of Eidolon hunting) the Lures don't go down' if I play her makes for boring gameplay and has the difficulty much higher than it should be, simply by arbitrary means.

No offense but this thread just sounds like you're burnt out on a frame. Saying something is not fun is arbitrary unless you have statistics that prove the community feels the same way. For instance, my favorite frame is Oberon, but I've played him soooo much that i wish i could build him another way. Unfortunately when I do, it's not as ideal as the build i run with him that i'm so tired of playing. So I caught myself thinking, man i wish he had more x. But when I thought about it, x would either be a crazy buff or a total redesign of his power. I don't really care whether Trinity is changed, but I do enjoy her, so what's to say there aren't more people who think she is fun. All i'm saying, is it's easy to mistake the feeling of being power hungry with actual warframe issues. In other words, what is there to differ/better my already awesome frame which I've grown attached to? Perhaps a new mechanic from DE in several months? Nothing at the moment. TLDR: What can you say to someone like me, who thinks Trinity is a great, fun frame, to convince me she needs change, besides "she is not fun" or "she spams abilities" or "you're dumb"? And how can you prove that it's not just a small portion of the community that feels this way?

Hard to take any thread seriously when you see stuff like "Rhino needs a buff" on the forums. But otherwise I'm sure your preposition for trinity has some merit.

[Angelid]

29 minutes ago, Dr.Wuzzah said:

And how can you prove that it's not just a small portion of the community that feels this way?


Hard to take any thread seriously when you see stuff like "Rhino needs a buff" on the forums. But otherwise I'm sure your preposition for trinity has some merit.

That is why I put this up in the first place, I would love to get other people's opinions on the subject. I've been playing since the beta days, and she hasn't been changed at all for a very long time (if you don't count the affinity range change on her ult and the line of sight change on her EV). Even when I first started playing her, I felt her as spammy and terrible to play as with pubs because (unfortunately) the mentality behind healers in pubs is just 'why you no keep me alive wtf'. Which she's good at, I will say that. But she got boring, very very quickly, and currently I never get bored of any other frame like I have her. No even my friend who's played nekros his ENTIRE playtime (he's also been playing since beta) says she's as bad as old Nekros.

I just want the conversation to get to the devs, to hear what they have to say, at the very least. yes, it kinda sounds like I'm saying 'plz buff trin' -- but really that's just an ideal outcome.
Also, if you would like, I have a friend who's messed around with Oberon a ton (he has FIVE different frames just for the different builds of oberon) and if you like I can get those builds from him so you can see a few different angles on those, assuming you haven't done it already (PM me if you want more on that).

I thank you, though, for posting! I'll try to get a bit more info in the original post as far as examples and evidence for how I feel Trinity is lackluster. :D

[Borg1611]

I had a complete re-work idea for her I don't think I ever posted. It's kind of long...

The basic idea is that it builds upon the vampire idea where she's taking energy from enemies and using it to benefit her team.

The design revolves around the addition of a new passive:

In addition to Triage, Trinity will now have a second passive called Energy Vampire.

Energy Vampire: Trinity gains energy equal to X% of all damage dealt by her weapons.

Overkill damage will count towards her passive to allow it to regenerate a lot of energy even in lower level mission. This passive is meant to allow Trinity to rapidly fill her own energy bar.

With end-game weapons she may be able to restore her entire energy bar in a single shot, but her abilities are all designed with that potential in mind.

First ability: Well of Life (similar to some ideas already posted, but has mechanics to play into her energy vampire passive):

Well of Life is no longer cast on an enemy. Well of Life now creates an object where Trinity is targeting (edit: probably max of 1 out at a time, re-casting replaces it).

The Well of Life pulses once per second (baseline, duration scaling discussed below) restoring up to ?? (could be percent based or a static value) of an allies maximum health and removing up to 1 status effect per ally per pulse. 

Notes:

Visually it will look like some kind of fancy well (like a prettier versions of a World of Warcraft lightwell). 

It can also have a circle around it on the ground so everyone can see where they'd have to stand to be in range. The baseline range of the pulse radius could be 20m or so?

Cost: 100% of remaining energy is spent. Well duration is .1 second per energy spent.

Example: So if Trinity has 638 energy and spent it all on well, it would last 63 seconds, modified by efficiency (possibly modified by duration but I think having duration work on pulse timing instead might be interesting).

A possible alternative way for duration to scale would be so it had no effect on the duration of the well, but instead affected pulse duration. Positive duration would increase the frequency of pulses (or the strength of pulses if ticking too fast caused a performance issue) while negative duration would make it have slower pulses. I think this would actually be better as it would help reinforce duration's scaling role in Trinity's kit where positive duration increases her defensive benefits to a group, and negative duration will decrease those, but give her more offensive benefits.

Augment: the well augment could be changed to restore ? shields per pulse with the ability to provide overshields. This would allow Trinity to also still provide overshields now that we're changing her abilities.

An idea that could help play into her new energy system:

If Trinity spends 75% or more of her maximum energy on Well of Life, all allies in range of the well when it is cast gain status immunity for X seconds (could be fairly brief like 10 seconds unmodified by duration so she has a reason to build and spend energy on it if she needs to keep her team status immune).

 

Second ability: Energy Leak

This ability is a toggle with no duration or upfront cost.

Energy Leak: While toggled on, Trinity leaks energy to her allies.

Once per second Trinity leaks energy to all allies within 25m (maybe affinity range?).

This will deduct energy directly from her energy pool at a 1 to 1 ratio. It will only drain energy for allies who are not full on energy. The ratio is affected by efficiency (so at 175% efficiency it will drain .25 energy per energy restored to an ally).

Negative duration will INCREASE the frequency of pulses, positive duration will decrease the frequency of the pulses (this is the opposite of well).

Depending on how we want to balance this (they could nerf her energy output when they re-design her), we will start with a different baseline number and could also possibly put a hard cap on pulses per second (IE: it could cap at 4 pulses per second even though negative duration can go to 12%).

Example numbers (I did this math a long time ago and don't feel like checking it but it gives you a basic idea of how it would work if it's not right):

Hypothetically let's say this could have a base value of 5 energy per second per ally in range.

So with base stats if you had 3 allies missing energy it would cost you 15 energy per second to restore 5 energy per second to each of your 3 allies. Energy per pulse would scale with power strength (which also increases its cost to you, optionally mitigated by efficiency as mentioned above).

So if you had a 12% duration and we didn't cap pulses per second, it would pulse 8.33 times per second allowing her to drain 41.65 energy per second per ally (~125 per second with 3 allies all missing energy). Using a current negative duration Trinity build as the ultimate example of how high this could go, you could also have around 200% strength (depending on forma and if you're using a power strength exilus) which would double everything, so 83.3 energy per second per ally or ~250 energy drain per second on her own energy pool (again, only if 3 people in range needed energy every second).

Even with a negative duration build this is less per ally than currently Trinity is capable of, so it's a nerf in amount of energy, but she is not locked into constant spamming of her 2 in order to provide energy. Instead she has to deal damage to enemies to feed herself energy.

Now to compare, let's say you had a build with 155% duration and 130% strength. That would mean Energy Leak would tick once every 1.55 seconds for up to 6.5 energy per ally or only 4.19 energy per second per ally. There would be a lot of room for playing around with her stats.

 

3rd Ability: Link

Link is now a toggle with no upfront cost or duration (meaning she can now use this with a negative duration build!). Regardless of if she's building for energy/offense or better healing/defense, Trinity needs this to survive. Her kit will be involved enough energy wise with her other abilities for this to need a cost just for being on.

To make this more interesting so that it's not just a passive, Link could now have two modes. Linking to enemies or linking to allies. Pressing the Link key will toggle between these two modes.

Linking to enemies would function just as it does now, giving her status immunity, damage reduction and re-directing some damage to enemies.

Linking to allies could act basically like spirit link in WoW where you essentially share health (and shield?) pools with your linked allies (your health would constantly balance  between the targets so you all constantly have equal %s of remaining health, effectively sharing their collective health pools). This could also potentially provide a buff of X% bonus to maximum health (scaling with strength) to increase their shared health pool. This would basically allow Trinity to sacrifice personal damage reduction (and damage as mentioned below) to instead increase her teams survival by giving them a linked larger health pool (and give link a purpose when doing something like Eidolons where there aren't many enemies you can link to).

The ally link could stop re-distributing health if allies drop to 25%(?) so that one guy can't go stand in a death laser to kill you all. Or if a shot on someone would one shot all of you together it could just let that one person die.

To preserve Trinity's health based damage we would add this to either Link or energy leaks description:

While Energy Leak is toggled on and Link is in the enemy link mode, targets linked to Trinity will take 2% of their maximum health in damage per pulse of energy leak.

The idea here is to preserve her health based damage. It's a reduction of her single target health based damage, but overall it's dealing about the same % of health based damage per pulse (2% on 3 different targets instead of 6% on one) as EV did, but without the constant 2 spam. 

This also reinforces negative duration as being her more offensive build as it would increase the damage being dealt by link while energy leak is active.

They could potentially add an additional cost for when this damage dealing effect is active IE: when energy leak pulses damage link targets Trinity loses 6% of her maximum energy. She will already be using a lot of energy potentially though.

4th ability: Blessing

Same basic ability but with some mechanical changes to fit into her new energy system:

Blessing would now spend 100% of Trinity's remaining energy to heal for the same values, scaling in the same way and providing the same DR buff (or higher since 75% is kind of lame).

Duration of the DR buff would now be based on energy spent, modified by efficiency and duration.

Examples:

I think something like .025 seconds per energy spent would be a good base value. If you were at full energy (638) when you cast it, it would last about 16 seconds. You could potentially build for high duration/efficiency to get a long duration if you wanted to build for that.

Maybe to add a bit more oomph and to make the energy mechanic matter more, you could also add something like:

If Trinity spends more than 75% of her maximum energy on blessing, allies will gain Blessed Life, doubling their maximum health for the next 3 seconds (unaffected by power duration).

Note: you would retain the % of maximum health you have left when the buff is lost so you won't instantly die when the buff ends if your health went lower than their un-buffed max health.

or

Alternative idea: If Trinity Spends more than 75% of her maximum energy on blessing, Well of Life's healing will be doubled for the next 10 seconds. Or you could use this idea for well and put the status immunity idea from spending 75%+ energy on blessing instead. Basically just giving them bonuses for spending more energy could be a neat interaction with her new energy system. 

 

TLDR: Energy Vampire becomes a personal passive so she easily restores energy to herself by attacking things and then spends it on her re-vamped/QoL improved abilities. EV as an ability is replaced with energy leak, which drains energy directly from her and gives it to her allies (and the values in terms of energy per second could easily be adjusted).

 

Edited February 24, 2018 by Borg1611

[EinheriarJudith]

26 minutes ago, Borg1611 said:

~snip~

 

just play harrow as he has most of these kinds of effects. there is a reason we have him. he is quite a good alternative to trinity.

[Neightrix]

So to be clear, Trinity does not need any kind of nerf. Zenurik, some syndicate weapons, Harrow... hell even one of your 12 gear slots can drop energy pads. If you're going to criticize how energy is given to players, I would center the conversation at how there is ZERO passive energy gain for any frames, and all energy is tied to RNG pickups or other specific methods - meaning the core pace of the game itself is tied to RNG. If anything, I would say Trinity is one of the things that mitigates this core "flaw" in the game, just like how Vacuum makes up for the normal pickup range being far too short.

If there are any changes she needs they are QoL, such as being able to cast abilities in the air, being able to walk while casting, and possibly faster casting speeds. There are other good suggestions here but that's where I would start. If we're going to talk about changing abilities, her 1 stands out as the least useful - but I'm very much against meddling with the rest of her kit, as there really isn't any reason to start changing frames as an experiment when there's nothing wrong. Trinity is amazing in the right hands.

[Guest]

Personally, from what I have seen on the forums, actually some of her abilities could do with changes. Well of Life is as pointless as it is when Trinity can battery herself with EV and just put down Blessing. Link + Blessing together really is just used for keeping yourself alive in Eidolon Fights and thus able to heal the lures, or for those Castanas Trins.

1. Well of Life already has loads of suggestions. I would follow the current most popular suggestion in terms of implementation, which is for Trinity to place what is like Energy Vampire on an enemy, causing them to leak out life in Pulses. The difference would be that the duration of Well of Life is affected by Power Duration, and more duration = more pulses, which happen at 4 times a second. Each pulse damages the enemy's max HP with a percentage of damage affected by strength, pulsing X + Y health to allies in range, where X is a fixed number and Y is the damage dealt. Trinity, no matter her range, will always benefit. If Well of Life is active and a target dies under it, they drop a health orb.

2. Energy Vampire - Trinity instead primes all nearby enemies in a radius with a debuff rather than CC a single target. Damage against primed targets will fill the energy of the one doing the damage by a percentage of damage dealt. Affected by Duration, Range and Strength, obviously.

• Casting Well of Life on an enemy affected by the debuff causes them to pulse both health and energy out (the energy pulses being like the current energy vampire), regenerating energy for the whole team. Death of an enemy via Well of Life on such an enemy causes them to drop an energy orb as well.
• Linking to a target affected by Energy Vampire causes finisher damage over time and generates energy for Trinity per affected enemy.

3. Link - Trinity links to enemies, gets some damage reduction and all. Pretty much doesn't need a change except a duration of 30 seconds and the limit to the number of targets that Trinity links to affected by strength, with 3 being the base, rounded up. Perhaps more DR capping at 90%. Link can also be made recastable.

4. Blessing - this ability seriously needs no major changes except maybe purging all debuffs when cast, and granting debuff resistance (aka shortened status effect duration on self from outside) when it is active.

• Instead of giving damage reduction, it shares the damage redistribution of Link to allies affected by the blessing.
• Enemies affected by this iteration of energy vampire pulse energy when blessing is cast and they are in range once.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Guest

[Borg1611]

9 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

just play harrow as he has most of these kinds of effects. there is a reason we have him. he is quite a good alternative to trinity.

I've played every frame in the game. Harrow is drastically different than what I suggested (like there's no meaningful similarity at all beyond the fact that there's a connection in using a weapon, though he requires kills to get energy and has a charge up mechanic) and I actually hate his energy mechanic (which doesn't even function in situations where you're not getting kills). I find Harrow to be a boring and terrible support frame, he's better as a solo frame just to buff your own weapons. He does serve a purpose in Eidolon hunts, though half the harrows in pubs pop their 4 after the shields go down instead of a limb and you end up getting hit by it anyway...

My suggestions build off Trinity's existing theme, but modernize her since she was created a long time ago and is very outdated. She would become a more versatile support and useful in more situations than she is currently, even if they nerfed her group energy restoration. 

[Angelid]

33 minutes ago, Borg1611 said:

I've played every frame in the game. Harrow is drastically different than what I suggested (like there's no meaningful similarity at all beyond the fact that there's a connection in using a weapon, though he requires kills to get energy and has a charge up mechanic) and I actually hate his energy mechanic (which doesn't even function in situations where you're not getting kills). I find Harrow to be a boring and terrible support frame, he's better as a solo frame just to buff your own weapons. He does serve a purpose in Eidolon hunts, though half the harrows in pubs pop their 4 after the shields go down instead of a limb and you end up getting hit by it anyway...

My suggestions build off Trinity's existing theme, but modernize her since she was created a long time ago and is very outdated. She would become a more versatile support and useful in more situations than she is currently, even if they nerfed her group energy restoration. 

I honestly hate that I can't get energy for myself when everyone else is better at getting kills with Harrow. 'Lul just headshot' I can't line up a shot in less than a half second (the time it takes for most weapons and frames to kill any enemy in the game). And I agree that she needs to be modernized. Harrow doesn't do well if you can't aim (or don't choose to melee everything), which I understand skilled play is rewarded with him-- but he has such a steep learning curve if you already have difficulty actually shooting things in their weak points in less than half a second. Contrast to Trinity, her learning curve is as flat as Kansas to a flat-earther (and the harrow bits was still assuming you had enough enemies to get energy back for, if you want to include Eidolon hunts).

I love the idea for an Energy vampire/leak, I wonder if it could be considered a toggle, that has two different 'modes' instead of putting vampire on her passive-- one would leech energy from nearby enemies as you have her passive, the other to leak energy to others (just for the sake of balance I doubt both could be active at the same time).

@EinheriarJudith This is why I want to talk about Trinity, I don't want to play Harrow. I want to play the warframe that drew me into this game in the first place-- at the moment she just feels awful to play. If you have any insights on how to make trinity better, by all means, post. If you're going to say 'Play x frame', I really just don't care. This is about trinity, no one else.
@Neightrix I agree completely, I am not asking for nerfs tho (unless that was directed to someone else), I just want her to FEEL better. Any kind of cohesion or interplay in her kit would be fantastic-- hek, even a QoL change for her ult just to be able to do as it says in her ability screen ( It does not, in fact, give more damage reduction on % health healed, but is based on her strength). Literally anything that shows the devs are even looking at her would be enough for me.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Angelid

[Angelid]

9 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

 

Sorry I missed your post!! Castanas Trin doesn't even work, as her ult isn't actually dictated by how much she heals anymore (even though it says it does, this I have tested unless they patched it since 22.10.0, I'll check again just in case), unless you mean via her Link-- but at that point you may as well play an actual damage frame, as that does more damage than Link Trin can really do. Other than Eidolon fights and Raids (or Trials if you want the correct term) Trinity's usage is Nil. It's rare in a day I will see her used by a pub-er other than if someone new, is leveling the frame/prime or if some seriously dedicated player is just having a fun moment of nostalgia (I do this once in a great while).

These are the QoLs I'm talking about, you have some fantastic ideas. I like how EV turns into an aoe that debuffs targets and allows allies to leech off them, though it's pretty close to what Harrow does just not based on his location. I love the interaction of Link + blessing, as well as EV + blessing, too! It would reward players for casting in an area near their allies, and not just under affinity range.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Angelid

[EinheriarJudith]

2 hours ago, Angelid said:

@EinheriarJudith This is why I want to talk about Trinity, I don't want to play Harrow. I want to play the warframe that drew me into this game in the first place-- at the moment she just feels awful to play. If you have any insights on how to make trinity better, by all means, post. If you're going to say 'Play x frame', I really just don't care. This is about trinity, no one else.

i dont disagree she needs some QoL. not much of anything has changed in her skill set. well of life still removes a priority target from play while healing people who shoot it, energy vamp still removes a priority target from play while giving energy pulse to the team, link still redirects damage she takes, bless is no longer map wide but still gives damage reduction and health/shield heals. if you are saying she doesn't feel well to you, its because you are burnt out playing her. i don't want DE to turn trinity into harrow or oberon. trinity is trinity. a black line, team support, healer as she always has been. again if you want to play a damage healer or want to play a healer with different play style DE has provided you options to do so. we have 34 unique warframes. make use of them.

[Kayll]

37 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

i dont disagree she needs some QoL. not much of anything has changed in her skill set. well of life still removes a priority target from play while healing people who shoot it, energy vamp still removes a priority target from play while giving energy pulse to the team, link still redirects damage she takes, bless is no longer map wide but still gives damage reduction and health/shield heals. if you are saying she doesn't feel well to you, its because you are burnt out playing her. i don't want DE to turn trinity into harrow or oberon. trinity is trinity. a black line, team support, healer as she always has been. again if you want to play a damage healer or want to play a healer with different play style DE has provided you options to do so. we have 34 unique warframes. make use of them.

Well of Life is completely worthless, any "priority" target is immune to the CC now,Blessing is better in every way, and no one is every going to look at their HP, stop what they are doing and look for the floating green guy that probably doesn't even exist in 99.9% of groups with a Trinity in them.
The move just needs to be changed into something else entirely... I can't think of one time I casted Well of Life and said "Phew good thing I have this skill!".

I don't think OP wants them to be changed into a front line warframe, simply changed so they have a more active playstyle instead of standing there casting EV over and over.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, Kayll said:

Well of Life is completely worthless, any "priority" target is immune to the CC now,Blessing is better in every way, and no one is every going to look at their HP, stop what they are doing and look for the floating green guy that probably doesn't even exist in 99.9% of groups with a Trinity in them.
The move just needs to be changed into something else entirely... I can't think of one time I casted Well of Life and said "Phew good thing I have this skill!".

I don't think OP wants them to be changed into a front line warframe, simply changed so they have a more active playstyle instead of standing there casting EV over and over.

heavy gunners, napalm, corpus tech, bursa etc. these are priority targets and they are not immune to CC. if he wants a more active playstyle he has options. changing a frame because its not active enough for you is ridiculous.

when im playing trinity i dont spam EV. i maintain link heal people when they need it and shoot or melee using what ever i bring. EV spam is a player problem not a frame problem. learn some self control.

[Angelid]

1 hour ago, Kayll said:

Well of Life is completely worthless, any "priority" target is immune to the CC now,Blessing is better in every way, and no one is every going to look at their HP, stop what they are doing and look for the floating green guy that probably doesn't even exist in 99.9% of groups with a Trinity in them.
The move just needs to be changed into something else entirely... I can't think of one time I casted Well of Life and said "Phew good thing I have this skill!".

I don't think OP wants them to be changed into a front line warframe, simply changed so they have a more active playstyle instead of standing there casting EV over and over.

Exactly! Your last line says it completely.

10 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

heavy gunners, napalm, corpus tech, bursa etc. these are priority targets and they are not immune to CC. if he wants a more active playstyle he has options. changing a frame because its not active enough for you is ridiculous.

when im playing trinity i dont spam EV. i maintain link heal people when they need it and shoot or melee using what ever i bring. EV spam is a player problem not a frame problem. learn some self control.

If you think 'spamming EV' is a thing most players don't do, then fine. I understand where you are coming from when it comes to how different playstyles of Trin go for. But my questions to you are this:

Why play Trin if you want to CC bombards and heavy gunners? Many frames have a FAR BETTER CC than Trinity's 1 or 2. Trinity: 'Oh look, I can CC two targets! And sometimes give HP and most of the time give Energy. ... If my line of sight doesn't hit another target, then I have to wait to recast it...' Rhino: 'I can CC everything around me, make myself literally immune to a set amount of damage, and if that fails, I can just ragdoll those bombards and heavy gunners anyway-- then boost my speed. Yay!' Why bother healing anyone when you can pick them up with literally any other frame who can survive the damage she can't? Nekros: 'Boop! Your up with half your hp :D' anyone other than Trin or (sometimes) Nova: 'YAY now I can use my skills to keep myself alive!' Trinity: ' ; o; TFW you don't have enough energy to cast Link AND Ult'.

My point is, @EinheriarJudith , is that literally ANYONE can do almost ALL of her jobs better and ten times more quickly (and safely) than she can. Even her burst heal isn't worth hek when there's a well built Oberon on the team, who gives BOTH a burst heal AND a huge amount of regen, assuming he has enough energy to keep it up longer than just a few seconds. And many of the healing alternative frames have at least SOME armor. Yeah, I understand Trin is supposed to be a backline healer, but most backline healers in other games can actually be in the back line. The range of her EV (not the cast, the pulses) means she has to be close to the action, and most maps are so small and you have to keep moving so much you can't actually turtle up unless you have a team built for it.

Most frames have some kind of armor and damage shed (or regen), or do a crapton of damage, or can just shed aggro (See stealth frames) or collect aggro for your other teammates. Trinity has a weak damage mitigation that she can give to others granted she has enough time and energy to do so. (75% for others, 92.5% for herself) She has a burst heal that actually has a cap to it, believe it or not (You can only see this on high health built warframes, such as Nidus, Inaros, or Nekros in some cases), and whatever else she has is lackluster or so niche you hardly ever want to take her anyway.

As far as EV goes, she only ever gets used in raids. Eidolon hunts its near useless because you can't cast it on second-form little guys or on the big guy at all, and only when you manage to happen across grineer do you actually get a full use of EV. So please, tell me when you would use Trin over any other frame, and I can tell you who would fill that role better. As a base frame, YES, she has the best heal in the game. But if we include builds and mods available for most of the community, she is outshined by every other frame for any other role she tries to sit in.

[Guest]

In all seriousness, Trin's EV should become her 1 and no longer do any CC. She simply does a huge amount of damage to an enemy, knocks them down and causes the 4 pulses of energy in a second, not modified by duration.

It would remove the need to build EV Trin specifically and free up EV to be used on many more targets than 1 at a time. 

As for Well of Life, maybe Trinity can have an aura of sorts around her where enemies who are attacked leak HP out, and if they die drop Health Orbs.

I am definitely not an avid Trinity main, but I do like using her for Eidolon hunts and most maps where a nuke frame can shine.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, Angelid said:

~snip~

 

i didnt know other frames could heal both health and shield while providing a strong damage reduction to the team in one skill. oh wait they cant only trinity can and in an instant. she can remove 2 targets from play while also giving the team health and energy. the only frames that can do this are oberon, nezha and harrow. no matter how you slice it saying other frames can do what she does and better is false. they can do similar things but in her own right they cannot do what she does.

if a nyx is in the group you have wide range CC, if you have nyx and trinity in the group you will have wide range CC and heals. there is no reason to not have a healer in the squad unless you are spamming health pizza. trinity brings to the squad what none of the other frames can do without a combination of them. if you are bored there are options.

Edited February 25, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[Angelid]

58 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

 

Yes, Trinity can do one thing really, REALLY well. 

But if you really want to get down to brass tax, an Oberon can give far more Cc, heals, and Damage reduction in the form of armor far better than Trin can. The way the math works out, the armor is far more effective than 75% damage reduction could ever do. 

I'm not asking for a complete rework, although that would be my ideal. At the very least I want to see her skills (or ,skill descriptions in game) be updated to the standard of quality that the rest of the frames are. She's got a lackluster heal (her 1) that no one bothers to use, an energy pulse that all other forms of energy is balanced around (it feels like), a very limited form of damage reduction based on enemies AROUND her (how is she backline wih this????) And an ult that, for all intents and purposes is the best and possibly only good thing about her. She has no skill curve, its just whatever buttons you happen to press. Also, I'd like to note: her damage reduction does nil for sheilds, the only thing it counts towards is HP, same with armor. DE has already stated they are planning damage 3.0 with these tweaked.

I'm going to agree to disagree with you here. I just want to see my favorite frame get some love, especially after the fixes to many now prime warframes that have had a cohesion update of some kind, except her.

 

1 hour ago, Datam4ss said:

 

I'll put some of your ideas in the original post, thanks for the ideas and support!

[EinheriarJudith]

55 minutes ago, Angelid said:

Yes, Trinity can do one thing really, REALLY well. 

But if you really want to get down to brass tax, an Oberon can give far more Cc, heals, and Damage reduction in the form of armor far better than Trin can. The way the math works out, the armor is far more effective than 75% damage reduction could ever do. 

I'm not asking for a complete rework, although that would be my ideal. At the very least I want to see her skills (or ,skill descriptions in game) be updated to the standard of quality that the rest of the frames are. She's got a lackluster heal (her 1) that no one bothers to use, an energy pulse that all other forms of energy is balanced around (it feels like), a very limited form of damage reduction based on enemies AROUND her (how is she backline wih this????) And an ult that, for all intents and purposes is the best and possibly only good thing about her. She has no skill curve, its just whatever buttons you happen to press. Also, I'd like to note: her damage reduction does nil for sheilds, the only thing it counts towards is HP, same with armor. DE has already stated they are planning damage 3.0 with these tweaked.

I'm going to agree to disagree with you here. I just want to see my favorite frame get some love, especially after the fixes to many now prime warframes that have had a cohesion update of some kind, except her.

 

I'll put some of your ideas in the original post, thanks for the ideas and support!

wait what? i dont see how his armor boost is stronger than 75% DR and i dont see how his heal is stronger than hers when she heals all of your HP and shield back. shes good at one thing and guess what? it happens to be the thing she was built for.... Healing.

i can see DE making Well of Life just like EV in that it pulses area heal and a boost to casting speed and activation time of skills and also making link one handed and allowing you to cast while parkour. but again i said im not against QoL changes. she in no way shape or form needs to take a more active roll when we have oberon and harrow.

Edited February 25, 2018 by EinheriarJudith

[Guest]

Actually Oberon can do things Trinity can't

Knockdown Immunity and Debuff removal. Trinity can't do that. He also has much harder CCs than her, soft CC via his mass of radiation procs, strips armor without an augment and Pheonix Renewal can heal back all HP.

He's actually a pretty strong and solid alternative now.

Trinity's blessing is the best emergency heal in the game, yeah, but now there is really only 2 ways to play her, and Well of Life isn't gonna become useful anytime soon.

[EinheriarJudith]

6 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Actually Oberon can do things Trinity can't

Knockdown Immunity and Debuff removal. Trinity can't do that. He also has much harder CCs than her, soft CC via his mass of radiation procs, strips armor without an augment and Pheonix Renewal can heal back all HP.

He's actually a pretty strong and solid alternative now.

Trinity's blessing is the best emergency heal in the game, yeah, but now there is really only 2 ways to play her, and Well of Life isn't gonna become useful anytime soon.

last i checked trinity didnt need an augment to full heal and i hardly call a heal you can spam emergency. shes best at one thing. Healing (energy health and shield). if she was also good at removing status why would anyone play oberon? and this is what i love about options.

Edited February 25, 2018 by EinheriarJudith