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Plains of Eidolon: Update 22.5.0 + 22.5.0.1


[DE]Rebecca

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While volt offered for starter warframe, ironically having the least survivability without abilities, even the abilities doesnt give good survivability and contradicts each other, speed capable of making u run fast enough so enemy cant follow up firing you fast enough, shield can prevent some one way / direction attack soruce if u stayed behind, but trying to do both punishes you instead, now, take that energy away, what u can do with that 15 base armor lmao? even trin for another frame having base 15 armor have bless that is as worth as having additional few hundreds of armor added and still no cloth physic for volt.

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Aesthetically we've grown accustomed to this game's character designs being very well-rounded and densely packed with coherent polish. If a frame is detailed, it has a lot of detail everywhere. If it's simpler in design, it'll be that way through and through. IE: Ivara, Nidus, etc, vs vanilla Mag. The former are quite detailed and intricately modeled in every piece, and none of them have any gaping sections of extreme polish disparity. 

 

More specifically, I mean instances of thematic inconsistency like Ember Vermillion's chest and inner thighs. This highly sculpted, curve-ridden skin suddenly breaks away into gaping-simple one-crease-for-detail polygons with barely-passable texture. That clashes terribly with the highly developed rest of the skin. The geometrically angular-bending 'pipe' or cable-looking bits breaking up the barren monotony of the inner thighs wholly clash with the curved stylization of the rest of the skin because it's the only instance of them. Had their models been sculpted with more care (to where they would look like more than an incomplete afterthought) and occurred in more areas on the skin, they'd be part of the theme. Instead the lack of stylistic integration leaves them clashing with everything. And no, I cannot consider it a valid attempt at contrast, either. Where else do you ever see those little pipe-like bits? There a tiny trace bits tucked away on the sides of the helmet, but there's a number of problems there. First of all, their angular, machined-looking edges still clash/contrast heavily with the organic sculpted modeling of everything around them. Secondly, those ones being properly modeled raises further contrast to incriminate the incompleteness of the ones on the thighs. Now, had the ones on the thighs been developed to the same degree as those on the helm, and if there were more instances of them throughout the skin, like around the bases of the highly-sculpted parts like the shoulders (like if it was a crossweave of those pipes instead of that mystery bodice material for the lower back and upper chest) you'd have some thematic tie-in. Possibly vein them in along the arms and legs too, instead of those weird out-of-place growths along her knees too. Kill two birds with one stone there, removing another stylistic outlier for coherency points. 

 

Then there's her chest. Aside from the mystery-bodice-material cross in the center, the sides suffer from the same incomplete look as the inner thighs. Again there is zero thematic or stylistic tie-in for this. It could be as simple as make some carving patterns as on the forearms and lower legs, or cooled-rock-mottling like on the 'hairline' of the helm, but instead there's exactly nothing there beyond a single crease. A single crease is not a detail, in the environment of a skin that's so highly detailed everywhere else. 

That's why that one looks woefully incomplete. Two glaringly underdeveloped areas neigh invalidate the entire skin because of how much they detract from its completeness and coherency. 

 

Mirage Prime: From what could be seen from the leaked images, it looked to meet about the same gripes as Ember Vermillion, on principle. Highly detailed and developed parts, contrasted with inexcusably incomplete, underdeveloped regions. 

 

The crime here is that there is very clear evidence of the artists' actual ability, slapped right next to woefully poor choices that look like nothing short of rushed, last-minute Minimum-Viable-Product patchings. 

 

Now of course the other side of this spectrum: Why don't I incriminate vanilla Mag? She has a detail. Here. And there. Oh and look there's one there too. But while I don't enjoy her vanilla look, it still passes on compositional merit because it's consistent in the development of its polygons and designs. It's coherent. It's not a uniform pattern, but there's a recognizable theme. Not much of one, but at least it doesn't exhibit a gaping disparity of artistic quality, so it's not as upsetting. 

With all that said, this is how I feel about this current skin:

 

1. No, it does not break any Warframe continuity lore. Deluxe skins have always been disclaimed to be non-canon. Sorry, Valkyr Gersemi vs Prime gripers. Deluxe skins are simply 'something the devs thought was cool, didn't quite fit into the game normally, but they wanted to see it in it anyway'. So no, there was not any form of prototype Volt in Dark Sector. But that doesn't matter. It's simply the idea of a Dark Sector themed prototype Volt, that the devs thought was cool, and thus they made it a thing. Deluxe skins are arbitrary, rule-of-cool. Deal with it. 

 

2. I like certain details on this skin, especially the pulsing-energy effects. There are, however, some parts that should normally throw it down the same gripe pitfall as what I dismantled in the Hidden rant of this comment (like the near-featureless plain long glove right arm, and totally plain left thigh). HOWEVER, this is a prototype-themed skin. That implies that it isn't necessarily supposed to look like a sleek, coherent, well-polished and completed masterpiece. Which leads me to:

 

3. Yes, for what it is, I'm ok with this skin. I get what they were going for, artistically. An ore rock, pulsing with electricity. The electrician bits (the rubbery looking gloves and boots, and electrical outlet plugs on the toes) are a little unnecessary imo but I get it, and imagine they were an easy patch-in while under pressing deadlines, and spared the artists from having to figure out how to keep a full ore rock theme from stepping on Atlas's toes too much. 

 

4. Given what I covered previously, I feel that this type of skin (prototype themed) can act as a good practice medium for the current artists to get their footing with, to bone up against those aforementioned coherency shortcomings. 

 

5. If it had to come down to it, I would vastly prefer they produce a number more of such prototype-themed skins for Deluxes before risking forever squandering opportunities with ambitious-concept skins, such as what Ember's Vermillion went down as. (I imagine any meaningful rework or revision to it is an impossibility from an administrative standpoint) (Believe me, I can see the internal scenario being something to the effect of: they spend a lot of time making parts of it really really cool, but deadlines force them to rush the last little bits and that's how we got what we got). Schmeh is schmeh, but excellent smeared with schmeh is squandered, defaced potential (and in my eyes far more upsetting). Personally I'd rather they take their time to make the excellent pieces precisely that, through and through, with no Achilles heel. I'd rather they take their time polishing all the skins to make them nothing short of what they could be. If administrative deadlines bearing down lower the final quality of set-in-stone-once-released deluxe skins, I implore more leeway to be given to the artists. 

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Volt QoL changes have no real impact.

If the Range of his Discharge (4) was Duration based but the effected enemies only dealt damage based on range that be way better.

At the moment when you build for Duration his Range and with that his 4 take to big of a hit. With the above mentioned change you'd still be able to CC but at the same time remain fast for a longer time.

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Gotta say, real disappointed about this update. Volt is my favorite frame, and I feel like his "deluxe skin" is possibly even worse than Ember's Vermilion deluxe skin. Nothing about it screams "prototype" or "Volt" to me. It looks like a jumbled mess of lines, textures, and coloring. The weapon skin and syandana seem pretty good though.

But aside from being disappointed with the skin, I'm even more disappointed with the Volt revisit. By increasing the damage of his 4, you have effectively nerfed his stun duration. Because for whatever reason his 4 still has a damage cap, which escapes me as to why that's a smart design choice. 

Furthermore, the energy drain on his 3 still feels too costly. Also, why do you guys seem to refuse to make his ability range duration based? Nova is like that, and so are several other frames, so why not Volt? It really feels like Volt is getting the short end of the stick, and I really hope you guys look into "fixing the fixes". 

As I said, he's my favorite frame, and I don't think the proposed changes (removing the damage cap on his 4, making ability range duration based, and fixing efficiency on his 3) is asking for too much. Really hoping he gets the love he deserves. 

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11 hours ago, maddragonmaster said:

yes i know of opinions. the whole beer belly, kfc ember, and lobster tail bit was a side note completely separate  from the toxic and entitled bit. i didn't understand what these guys were saying due to me not seeing similarities of what they believe they see in those deluxe skins. again for me to believe these opinions or claims to be true they have to be 100% of what they claim to be. proto volt would have to have a really misshapen head and a actual beer belly, vermilion ember would have to look exactly like she was made out of kfc chicken for me to accept it, chroma's dynasty skin waist band would have to look 100% lobster tail for me to accept it. 

sorry if i wasn't being clear about this part. i was meaning to side comment about people making senseless comparisons to things that don't even match it accurately. it is just players trying to be over critical on things that they are strongly against. heck even i do it at times.

  what ever happen with those threads involving people commenting about the volt deluxe skin was sure to have enough none acceptable behavior in them to validated removing them. plus having forums in feedback that only contain "i don't like such and such please change it now!" is bound to get removed.

i was toxic in these forums once, about the time silva & aegis prime was release due to the switch from mace to sword. after some time i realized my errors and attempt to not do something like that again. saying there is no toxic comments or entitled players is just foolish.

You had every right to be upset and to voice your complaint about S&Ap. Not voicing your opinion on things is how mistakes keep getting made and how the devs don't hear/ignore when something is wrong.

About the skins, ignoring the similarities and saying that they'd have to be a 1:1 comparison doesn't change that others can see it. Ignoring it doesn't change the perception and logic behind those perceptions. Accepting or not, those are the perceptions of others and they have a sound reasoning behind them.

Let me repeat myself: just because you disagree with the opinions, doesn't make them "toxic" or "entitled". Especially if someone were considering spending money for plat for that skin, saying "this sucks" is perfectly valid. It's saying that the product isn't worth spending money on(or time for the inevitable "hurr durr you can sell stuff for plat" response that ignores where that plat comes from)

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7 hours ago, DarkDullahan-Prime said:

You're kinda inverted on that viewpoint, Nekros's skin is one of the really good ones that a lot of people I've talked to have liked, whereas dislike the ember one highly. I'm impartial on the volt skin.

people dislike and hate the ember one because of the ignusdei ember design situation, only for this...

the nekros one to me look's like a kid cartoon skin :clem:

the problem of this volt skin is that don't look like volt, don't know how explain it... look excalibur and nyx proto skin , this 2 are amazing , but this one...

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vor 9 Stunden schrieb ADirtyMonk:

Yet again DE manages to completely miss the mark on Volt.

And I quote direct from the Market: "This is a high damage warframe perfect for players who want a potent alternative to gunplay"

There are 2 alternatives to gunplay. Abilities and melee. Volt cannot do either very well. Volt's abilities may as well not have a damage component past lv 30 enemies. Melee does enough damage and thus has some potential but Volt is too squishy past lv 70 enemies to be in close range and he has no damage mitigation. Furthermore his kit is full of odd contradictions.

This post emphasizes the melee aspects of volt. There are many Warframes that cater to gunplay and/or abilities far better than Volt does. Players looking for gunplay should not be looking to Volt.

My credentials: 2199 hours on the in game clock, Volt and Volt prime have a combined usage of 28.7% with the next highest as Chroma at 11%, MR24.

The thing that Volt offers that no other frame does is the Speed ability. No other warframe can boost movement speed AND melee speed at the same time to the same extent that Volt can. Combined with high power strength makes for an incredibly fun experience. Volt should be built around Speed with an emphasis as a melee caster yet currently a significant part of his kit punishes attacking/moving or forces Volt to stay still and that is an enormous design failure that the Design Lead has failed to address again and again.

Issues:

1.      Contradictory/poorly designed kit. Tries to do everything, does nothing.

2.      Too fragile to be end game (vs Lv 100) viable.

Kit: I wont throw around too many numbers. These are my opinions from having tried to take a melee volt into lv 80-100 content again and again alongside about an hours worth of very basic testing in simulacrum

Passive: Volt's passive may as well not exist (Except when it’s used for fishing, then it’s awesome). I do not recall whether or not it adds after calculations or to base damage but it is ultimately irrelevant. Getting that 1000 damage takes 10-15s (Tested on a 384% power strength build, sprinting, in Simulacrum) of doing NOTHING but running around. You cant shoot, you cant melee, NOTHING. Worse, even if you do decide to charge it, you can miss with the charged attack. So in reality you don’t even get 1000 damage, you get a very small fraction of that damage if anything at all.

Shock:

1.      Weak damage, no scaling. 384% power strength strikes a normal lv 80 heavy gunner for 44 damage, lv 80 lancer for 159.

2.      Cast is too slow. Volt is fast and squishy. If I turn a corner into a napalm or hyekka master I need those units stunned Immediately. Current cast speed means that some % of the time the napalm/hyekka manages to fire anyway and I die because I cannot avoid the projectile at point blank.

3.      often fails to interrupt big attacks (napalms, bombards, etc)

4.      Needs to be aimed very precisely at enemies otherwise it wont hit. Precise aiming becomes very difficult to do the faster you go. This also effectively makes the augment useless.

5.      Cost of 25 energy is too high for a brief 5 enemy stun.

6.      This ability needs power strength, efficiency, and range to be effective. Range is a dump stat for a melee volt. Meaning this ability is effectively a single target stun.

Speed:

1.      Base duration is too low. My builds hover between 150 and ~200% duration giving me 15 and 20s respectively. Having to constantly refresh the ability is fatiguing.

Electric shield: This ability is completely contradictory to Volt’s kit and stated purpose.

1.      Warframe is a fast paced mobile shooter, Volt is a frame emphasizing movement. This ability Volt and teammates to stand still to make use of this ability.

2.      Amps bullets shot through shield. Volt is supposed to be an alternative to gunplay yet here is an ability that emphasizes standing still and shooting enemies.

3.      Very small coverage. Especially on PoE the shield is laughably small. Volt will never be Frost and I don’t want volt to ever be a defense oriented frame.

Riot shield.

1.      Cost: energy to cast, energy cost to carry, affected by duration. If energy were money and EA was the designer this is what I would expect to happen. No other ability in warframe nickle and dimes the player like this for so little return

2.      Tiny coverage: only covers the front of the warframe. AOE attacks most lethal to volt (rockets, flamethrowers, Toxic ancient spray) tend to ignore the shield if you are not perfectly aligned. Often in game and especially in PoE you are getting shot from all sides.

3.      Automatically dropped on entering operator mode: This ability punishes trying to use virtually every one of the few positives about Operator combat (void dash, Energizing Dash, Magus Elevate) by making you stop and pick up the shield after each time you swap out.

Discharge

1.      Long cast time

2.      Locks Volt in place during cast

3.      No invulnerability during cast

4.      Damage cap

5.      Delayed damage

6.      Requires power range which is a dump stat

7.      Tiny damage. 384% strength build does 80 and 292 damage/tick to a lv 80 heavy gunner and lancer respectively

 

Fragility: Melee volt is extremely fragile. At lv 90 enemies every Volt build I have tried (one of which combined Primed flow, Quick thinking, Vigor, Steel Fiber, and Rage) will inevitably and with frustrating frequency, be destroyed in 1-2 seconds or just outright one shot. Volts contradictory kit leaves him with defensive options that leave him either immobile or are punishingly costly defensive. Options that do not work much of the time, are insufficiently powerful, or are severely inhibited if decides to play Volt has he is marketed.

Contrast this to Mesa where near instant unavoidable death almost never occurs since despite being theoretically fragile and constantly transitioning into an immobile turret she has the following:

1.An easily achieved long duration 95% damage reduction

2. An automatic continuous 360 degree long ranged CC that travels with her

3. Peacemaker which outputs better damage at a safer range than any Volt can

 

Suggestions:

Given DE’s allergy to expending significant effort to reworking and improving old frames I’ll keep these “realistic” suggestions simple.

Passive: Copy and paste Arc Coil from Diriga. Increase status chance to 50%

Shock: Copy and paste Desiccation from Inaros. Reskin with electric particles.

Speed: Base cost to 30. Base duration to 15s.

Electric Shield: Copy and paste Shatter Shield from Mesa.

Discharge: Copy and paste MPrime. Reskin with electric particles.

Ideally I would like:

Passive 1: Sprinting/parkour builds damage reduction over 1500m up to a max of 95% rapidly decaying over 5s if Volt stops. Moving again will resume increasing damage reduction.

Passive 2: Sprinting builds up charge over distance covered, 50m for 100 charge, max of 100 charge. Charge behaves like Mutation stacks except they are expended with ability casts. All of volt’s abilities scales with Charge

Shock: A Desiccation like ability that scales with melee mods and Charge. Minimum range 15m

Speed: Base cost to 30. Base duration to 15s. Also scales parkour stats. Innate shocking speed. Scales with Charge.

Electric Shield: One handed ability, casting does not affect movement. Running through the shield confers flat armor (similar to Renewal) to allies for the duration of the ability. Hold down to supercharge with additional %electric damage/crit damage. Both additional armor and damage scale with charge. All bonuses will immediately apply to Volt on cast.

Discharge: Essentially Virulence that is cast and expands like MPrime.

This sounds good! 

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Thank you for making the new skin a Proto skin instead of his Deluxe.  As a Deluxe I was severely disappointed, but as a Proto I do like it and I think it's a good way of adding an intriguing tidbit of lore.

 

Edit:  ...That is whats happening right?  This isn't actually going to be his Deluxe skin, right?

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Honestly DE, as much as i hated the prime design, this skin was a mix bag of unique and awful similar to nova deluxe skin,  i had high expectation of a better skin for volt but this one, just disappointed but not surprised.

aside of that, thanks for bringing back the "castable in air"

GOtlOzG.jpg

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On 30/11/2017 at 7:39 PM, Aggh said:

Yawn.  They fixed 30+ other problems but not 9 problems you care about.  They'll get fixed when they get fixed; some things take longer to troubleshoot than others.

9 Problems? No, its 1 problem. 1 simple problem that can easily be fixed.

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great work on the new volt skin! it's beautiful and sleek.

something the fastest warframe would need for the most aerodynamic of performance!

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On 11/30/2017 at 8:08 PM, ADirtyMonk said:

"This is a high damage warframe perfect for players who want a potent alternative to gunplay"

That has been there since closed beta, it wasn't true then either except when his ult was super broken and could wipe an entire map cause of the old mod system.  You're taking very old flavor text a bit too seriously.

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Volt, like most "damage" frames, needs serious rework, QoL changes are a poor quality crutch at best. We have top dog Nidus that can do anything and all 4 abilities AND passive are useful, we have frames whose ability damage scales with weapon mods and then we have Volt and the rest of the poor bums with at most 2 useful abilities and S#&$ty scaling.

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Two days into the update and we haven't heard anything about fixing or at least reverting Discharge. The increased damage doesn't matter against enemies that pose any threat, and also means that you reach the damage cap faster, and thus in any sort of significant group of enemies, his CC might last 5 seconds at most, making the unmoddable 4 second minimum duration mostly irrelevant.

There are several easy solutions to this.
-Remove the damage cap (but reduce the base duration slightly since it's quite high).
-Increase the minimum stun duration, and allow it to be affected by Duration modding.
-Massively increase the damage and allow Discharge (and Shock as well) to scale off the mods on your Primary, making it a powerful damage option that fulfills his original but very outdated description of an "alternative to gunplay."

Volt is my favorite frame, and it's sad to see him in this bad of a position due to what should have been buffs, but due to his mechanics ended up being nerfs. At least the changes to Electric Shield are nice, and appreciated, even if they're not exactly what we had wanted (E/M removed rather than E/S). Hopefully this can be fixed soon.

At the very least, I was skeptical of the skin but it's not as bad as I thought. It's not what I had hoped for, but I can see how some people would like the styling.

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On 12/1/2017 at 3:16 AM, BlackCoMerc said:

This is a bandaid. 

What would be awesome, is allowing Vacuum to pick up both these, and Ayatan stuff. 

its-something.jpg

 

 

was testing other weapons that would be good for PoE, dont know if this is normal or bug, but scourge's projectiles dont pass thru nyx's 4th skill with assimilate. it explodes on contact with the shield, but still procs when enemies are in melee range

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On 12/1/2017 at 3:35 AM, LIKE_A_PR3DAT0R said:

people dislike and hate the ember one because of the ignusdei ember design situation, only for this...

the nekros one to me look's like a kid cartoon skin :clem:

the problem of this volt skin is that don't look like volt, don't know how explain it... look excalibur and nyx proto skin , this 2 are amazing , but this one...

I don't like the ember skin cause it just uses the base model ember and puts trinkets on it. It wasn't built from the ground up like the Nekros skin or even the volt skin. On top of that it's overly cluttered and tacky. Excalibur and Nyx proto are just the dark sector models, whereas the new Volt one is a new design not derived from Dark Sector.

I would have loved to see a volt proto skin based off of the Stalker model from Dark Sector cause I mean...look at this beautiful face:

 

2000?cb=20120630225215

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