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[DE]Aidan

The Great Plains of Eidolon Feedback Survey

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Since surveys arent clear information, but a matter of  interpretation, here is my view:

 

- Fishing, mining and scanning are extremely not fun, warframe is a fighting game, an action game, those activities like fishing are not enjoyable, and they should definitely have alternatives, to adquire the items and resources. (As the matter os scanning and the codex, you failed big time, you completely missed the goal, of having a codex as an information guide, instead its just another not fun, not useful feature, that is grindy and bad.)

- As an open world POE is very very poor. It's a huge area with little content, and 90% emptiness; unnecessary, bad design, all the actual content could have been compressed in 1/8 of the map size, and it would be more engaging, dynamic and interesting. Quality, not quantity.

- Enemy difficulty and challenge, you went the wrong way, you made enemies powerful enough too kill the player in 2 seconds, instead make the enemies resistant, the player should take a wile to kill them, but they shouldn't insta kill if the player is actively moving and evading. Make them drop mining, fishing and any other new POE resources, and alternative to those activities is needed.

- Cetus is another pointless relay instance. The only thing I get with this failed immersion is "excalibur ghosts" (when the frame/character is constantly loading), cetus is therefor unneeded, would rather had seen it on POE itself with no HUB features, and we could have had instant access to start a new bounty, instead of the huge amount of time we loose loading in and out of cetus. A waypoint in POE, to show were the cetus entrance is, is very needed, any waypoint orientation, a north or a south marker at the very least (and the augmented mini-map is terrible, unusable, you didnt put one single effort of making it barely practical, shame on you)

- Archwing on POE (skywing), it fails to reach its purpose. This was a huge red flag when i saw it on teaser before POE was released, for a dev to go to the trouble of adding a vehicle in a open world, it was a sign that this open world would be big and empty, and it is. But, what I find to be the worse problem of all this issue, is the lack of keeping a consistent design logic, you know the players waste a huge time navigating the map, so you create an alternative, only to get lost in your own solution, and block it behind grind and consumable items, its either an all time all access tool or it isnt, make you mind. In the same way, we saw the use of the liset during the quest, and right after you block the possibility of extracting with the liset as a regular exiting mechanic. Make a fast travel/ teleportation possible to extract to cetus, and also extraction with the liset possible. There was a point in time (2014) you forgot player experience and practicality is more important then immersion, forcing us to to go tot cetus just to exit or restart a new bounty is a immersion nightmare, bad design.

- Resources and ammo, this is not has bad as archwing mode, but its the same mistake you made there, in archwing missions you knew the guns needed to be self rechargeable, because in a full 360ª place it would be unpractical to catch ammo and keep on fighting, and then you failed right after by making all loot fly out trough the space. In the same way, you know POE has the same problem, why else would you design ammo dispensers trough the map, and again repeating the same mistakes, POE is a place were tall grass vegetation etc, makes it unpractical to catch loot, and you do know this, again you created ammo dispensers. Stop being constrained by our own old designs, in both archiwing missions and POE, all drops need to be adquire on enemy death, instantly added to the inventory, not even universal vacuum is acceptable.

- Future open worlds, dont rush it, make them have live, fallow the "30 seconds rule" in a open world a players should be a able to walk at any direction and within 30 seconds he should find something interesting, something to do, any content. Dont make another huge flat map, dont even make another natural environment map, make a city, make a big outpost, make something that uses also vertical navigation, any kind of tall building or towers, warframe is a sci-fi game after all, and the population, doesn't have to be restricted to enemies, pacific people and any other allies also make good content for open world pieces.

Eidelons, I still see no point of playing this content, stop pushing your agenda of operators, its not working, just like archwing will never be a thing. I see no point in grinding for operator content, when these are not more powerful tools then the ones we have (warframes and weapons), nor they cant be more powerful then warframes, because warframes are the main heroes of the game. You should have picked up the operators and schools, and made them the universal tool for stealth gameplay, this is were operators and focus could have had a tangible useful place, and be something important.

 

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Survey with Google, when you have built in tools on forums. GG DE. No ty, will not be writing my feedback through that system.

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Was also confused by this question: "Please rank the members of the Ostron Community in order of how valuable you believe they are to your experience. (1 for most valuable, 7 for least valuable)"

I simply ranked based on how much I used the NPC during play.

 

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I have two major gripes, one make the tuskar enemies drop plains resources, seriously, please. and I hate that the archwing suddenly veers towards the ground when flying straight ahead.

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THE GREAT PLAINS OF EIDOLON FEEDBACK SURVEY

"Overall, how much do you enjoy the Plains of Eidolon?"
7/10.  The biggest problem for me is that it's a lot more fun alone or with a good friend, and falls apart when you bring matchmaking into it. Distances are very significant, so players that bring frames with high mobility features can easily leave team mates in the dust, and there's nothing stopping them from killing all the enemies or starting mission objective before anybody else can catch up. Also, not all players wandering on to the Plains are after the same thing. Some want to do bounties and incursions, some want to just fish, and the game doesn't enforce or provide specific matchmaking tools to facilitate this. Which is a much bigger problem here in Warframe than in typical MMOGs, since there's a maximum of 4 players on a team and dropping in/dropping out dynamically is a bit iffy.

"Overall, how well is Plains of Eidolon integrated into the rest of Warframe's existing content?"
3/10. Plains enemies are unique to Plains.  Plains resources are unique to Plains. Plains progresssion is unique to Plains. Plains characters are unique to Plains. It's largely a self contained system. Though I understand why you did this for progresssion and resources.

"How much are you looking forward to future "Open Zones" in Warframe?"
10/10!


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CETUS

"Overall, how much do you enjoy Cetus as a hub for the Plains of Eidolon?"
7/10. I enjoy Cetus as a location and as an example of world building, but it's annoying to have to keep passing through a significant loading door any time any time you want to do anything. In an ideal world, it would be nice to have better integration between the merchants/progression system and the gameplay space.

"Please rank the members of the Ostron Community in order of how valuable you believe they are to your experience."
Most important:  Konzu because he's the bounty guy
Onkko because all things Operator
Hai-luk because you're going to do a lot of fishing and you need to visit her constantly to dissect your catch
Suumbat because gems and ores are required for crafting, though you don't need to visit him as frequently
Hok because you need to build zaws, but honestly I don't like the way zaws look and you can't use skins on them so I only care about the mastery
Nakak because her shop is small and non-recurring
Teasonai because is shop is small and non-recurring

"How would you rank the experience of navigating through Cetus?"
5/10. Meh?  The biggest problem for navigation is finding the Quills, there are no hints for this. But everybody else now has a marker and you can use fast travel.

"Are the variety of resources and items available through Cetus beneficial to Warframe?"
4/10 on resources:  We're going to get more Landscapes, and each one is going to have its own batch of Stuff to collect because you don't want veterans to walk in and buy everything on day 1, and that is sensible. However the UI isn't set up to give us information about where to find it.  When we eventually have hundreds of different crafting ingredients and your only clue is something like "Alloy pellets used in Grineer manufacturing"... okay? The foundry or codex needs to indicate the provenance of ingredients in a clearer way with better cross-linking and the map itself needs to include resources on Landscapes like it does from standard mission nodes. I shouldn't need to check a wiki to know where to find <foo>, and that's where we are heading at the moment.
8/10 on items being unique to landscapes. Gives a tangible reward for playing in different places, where a lot of other Warframe mission nodes languish unplayed because there's nothing unique/attractive about them.


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BOUNTIES

"Overall, how much do you enjoy completing Bounties?"
8/10 More interesting than many other missions since there are multiple objective types in one package. A lot of traveling time in some cases.

"Do you feel that Bounties reward a fair amount of Standing given the time and skill requirements?"
10/10

"Do you feel that the item rewards offered by Bounties are fair given the time and skill requirements?"
10/10

"Do you feel that each Bounty has an appropriate level of gameplay variety?"
6/10. It quickly becomes obvious how bounties work and what the building blocks are. It's a step in a good direction, but it needs a bit more chaos. In other missions, Lotus can change our objectives on us, or we can be invaded by special enemies. It would be nice to have some random mutations on bounty objectives, like Corpus crashing your party with a delivery of robots, or getting 'help' from some militant Ostrons and getting a bonus for how many you can keep alive.


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FISHING

"Overall, how much do you enjoy fishing?"
7/10. Pretty relaxing.

"Do you feel that the resource requirements for fishing equipment are fair?"
10/10.

"Do you feel that the resource and standing rewards for Fishing are fair?"
7/10. Fishing may be too profitable, it doesn't feel like an alternative way to gain standing with Cetus so much as the most efficient way to gain standing. The Ostrons themselves can fish, they shouldn't need an outsider to save them from having no fish or reward you as their savior for doing it. What they can't do is fight the grineer off.

"Do you feel that the fishing gameplay mechanics are intuitive/easy to pick up?"
8/10. New descriptions on fish/bait helps clarify where and when to look for different species. The exact mechanics of how bait works are still frustratingly opaque.


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MINING

"Overall, how much do you enjoy mining?"
3/10. It's not nearly as interesting as fishing.

"Do you feel that the resource requirements for mining equipment are fair?"
10/10

"Do you feel that the resource and Standing rewards for mining are fair?"
4/10. Only gems can be turned in for reputation, 75% of stones will give ores instead of gems, and what gems we do get are not worth much.

"Do you feel that the mining gameplay mechanics are intuitive/easy to pick up?"
8/10. Mechanics that need greater transparency are 1) Aim at a stone longer to make guide lines last longer and 2) Which ones are the "Eidolon gems" and how you get them.


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EIDOLONS

"Overall, how much do you enjoy fighting Eidolons?"
9/10. The fight against the critter itself has the potential to be the best boss fight we have...

"Do you feel that the difficulty/skill requirements for fighting Eidolon are fair for experienced players?"
2/10. ...but it's far, far too easy for an experienced team. Players complete it multiple times back to back because it takes so little investment. With appropriate healing support you almost don't even need to care what the Eidolon is doing because you'll survive it, and with relatively simple DPS amplification, one shot from one player is enough to finish each stage.  Also the fact that the fight does not scale to the number of active players is completely unfair for players who prefer to play solo.  Solo players will have to have to spend significantly more time and effort and skill on the fight than teams which can steamroll it without a challenge.

"Do the Eidolon fighting gameplay mechanics require a balanced level of strategy/planning?"
3/10. 90% planning and 10% actual strategy. Read a How-To guide to learn the team comp and you barely really interact with the Eidolon and its attacks. You spend a minute preparing then do the same thing 4 times in a row. Nothng unpredictable happens during the fight, it doesn't abruptly change the rules at any point, which means planning can defeat the intended challenge utterly.

"Is the multi-stage progression of the Eidolon fight beneficial to Warframe's boss design?"
10/10. The concept is solid, it just needs to switch gears more significantly to prevent there being One Meta To Rule Them All.


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MISCELLANEOUS

"Do you enjoy the scanning of hidden glass fish to uncover Ostron lore?"
8/10. I enjoy scanning things to find lore, though maybe something less artificial than a glass fish. We have tons of ruins and dead machinery lying around, why doesn't any of that have cool secrets to reveal?

"Do you feel that the plants and animals of the Plains of Eidolon create a compelling environment?"
5/10. The flora is all fine.  In terms of fauna, birds never seem to be doing anything and rabbits just run away or die randomly to AOE before you even notice them. Where's the kubrows! The Ostrons mention them, and wild Kubrows have way more "life" to them.

"Do you feel that the placement of Grineer patrols and camps is well implemented?"
7/10. The camps all make sense though I would like to see more obvious "patrol routes" where Grineer set out from camp and try to reach some other camp or outpost, instead of randomly being hot dropped into the middle of nowhere.

"Do you feel that the difficulty scaling of Grineer enemies progresses fairly throughout the Plains of Eidolon?"
8/10. A handful of exceptions but mostly fair.

"How long have you been playing Warframe?"
Since 2013-10-02.

 

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I am thoroughly enjoying POE, however I feel what would make the plains more compelling is a bit more variety in missions, more events such as plague star, new enemy types. Expanding on the new enemy type, maybe grineer ground tanks or walkers that have stages or weak point, kinda like a mini Eidolon. Maybe a new faction as well, far fetched I know, but still would be cool. I think it would be cool to support Ostron scouts out in the field, rather than just referencing the scouts, actually showing them. At the end of the day these are just my underdeveloped ideas off the top of my head, keep up the great work. For the record you guys blew Destiny 2 outa the water ;).

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Im glad you guys are doing this, please make more feedback opportunities for us. Like ask us for feedback before releasing Deluxe skins and what not, many people were not satisfied with some of the recent Deluxe skins. Getting feedback before releasing things will help with sales of these items and help prevent dissatisfied responses.

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Crashingto dashboard  from Cetus to plains when matchmaking for public group an fix incoming because the plague star event has started and is impossible to play it!

Edited by (XB1)PARDUS IX

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3 hours ago, MagPrime said:

Nice!

But if only there was a feedback sub-forum that was specifically for providing feedback on the plains, so that DE doesn't have to resort to online surveys to get viable and constructive feedback.

You know they barely ever check the forums, right?

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2 minutes ago, Zenviscerator said:

You know they barely ever check the forums, right?

You know that you have no way of knowing that, right?

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It's disruptive to the New Player Experience(TM).

You're in the flow unlocking nodes/planets when all of a sudden Cetus/Plains of Eidolon break your flow. You're trying to get your 2nd warframe and up pops fishing/mining/bounties?

That's all End Game(TM) stuff.   

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Just now, CityOfVillians said:

It's disruptive to the New Player Experience(TM).

You're in the flow unlocking nodes/planets when all of a sudden Cetus/Plains of Eidolon break your flow. You're trying to get your 2nd warframe and up pops fishing/mining/bounties?

That's all End Game(TM) stuff.   

*squints at your name*

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5 minutes ago, SordidDreams said:

And whose fault is that, hm?

No ones! There's too many posts and only so much time in a day for DE to look through all of them, they do spend a lot of time actually developing Warframe believe it or not. Which is why a survey makes sense to reach a consensus on public opinion. It's easy access for them and it gets players who might not take the time to write out and make a feedback post to participate as well. I seriously don't get what all the fuss is about a survey...

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>Overall, how well is Plains of Eidolon integrated into the rest of Warframe's existing content?

Define "integrated".

Do you mean how well PoE fits in with the lore? How well the content caters to Warframe's theme? How useful it is to other parts of the game where a person would come to PoE for an unrelated purpose? If the play style of being in the plains felt uncomfortably different compared to existing content?

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Dear DE,

i'm very happy that you welcome our feedback and offered us this survey. But as there is no section in it wich grants us the option to give improvement ideas or criticism on PoE i am going to do this here:
 

When i first watched the PoE-announcement video i felt so excited about the upcoming update. I had so many ideas and thoughts on what you are going to do with this concept.

The other day you released the Update. I was still excited, even tho i felt you announced it too early for me to keep the high excitement-lvl i had before. I started the game, logged in and went to Cetus. To be honest i had a hard time at first to navigate myself thru the environment to the gate, but i managed to enter the plains. Then i played on them. I went to every single place, fought every single grineer and absorbed the surroundings. But it felt emty. Not because there was too much blank space. Not because there werent enough enemys. But because there was no diffenerce, no change, everything looked the same and felt the same.

At first, even thought i realized its missing something, i didnt know what exactly it was. But now that you brought us the infested event it came over me, because this section, where that specific event was placed in, WAS DIFFERENT, it WAS the change i needed to enjoy PoE. Obviously that was only the case for that area. But this is what needs to change first! GIVE EACH AREA THEIR OWN CHARACTER AND INDIVIDUALITY!

You might argue that the grineer bases fullfill this as well, but they dont. They are not specific, large and individual enough to make up for the plainness of the plains. (wink)

My suggestion would be:

  • Add a Zone to the planes (wich is not just a random corner) that is an infested area. make it overgrown with these infested seeds and make the event one that works similar to the razorback and fomorian ship. Make it start when something in that zone happened very often or something in that direction. Make it interactive.
  • Also add more such Zones for maybe different Grineer types (eg the normal grineer running around will remain as such, but as you are adding 'undead Grineer' very soon you might as well give them a zone on PoE just like the infested would have. Maybe link it to the comic lore and call it the 'undead war zone' or something like that.)

Bounties:

To unlock the bounties you have to play a short questline. You happen to talk alot with Konzu and that woman on your way to unlock those bounies. But yet, when you did unlock them, Konzu suddenly only grants you bounty-access when you go and talk to him personally.

This is (imo) the main reason for bounties to become very boring and repetetive (yes ik this is a grind game but that doesnt mean it should make us run back to the gate each time we want to accept a new mission). While you balanced the awards granted by such activities (wich seems to be fair at its current state) i would highly recommend you to give Konzu a g****** (great) WALKY TALKY. (i dont mean the quest btw)

Also you might slowly want to add some more variation to the bounty gameplay (eg if you should consider adding the first idea above build up small stories around a bounty and combine the gameplay and story with the zones)

Fishing:

Alot of people seem to enjoy fishing. Unfortunately im not one of these people, but maybe i will be able to help you just because of that.

Why do i not like fishing?

Gameplayview: It feels very slow and clunky. It is obviously more realistic if you have to wait for your fish to spawn, but while warframe is a very fast paced game you have to wait ages until you can catch a fish. Some people might say, that this is what makes it so great. They will say it's relaxing. But in that case fish ingrediants are way to mandatory for about every single new item since PoE in the game.

What would i change about that:

  • increase fishing spawntimes AND spawnrange (make them spawn everywhere in the pool so i can actually make use out of warframes parkour system to get the fish i want)
  • make the fishing spear compatible with parkour (eg make it possible to throw a spear while gliding)
  • reduce rewards for fish as there will be more to catch
  • make the spear just that little bit faster to comliment the parkour compability

Fishing might be alot of fun for some pleople, but it doesnt fit into warframe gameplaywise in its current state. I would give it more pace or grant another way to access the ingrediants from fish without having to spend platinum on it.

Mining:

As i dont mind mining as much as fishing i cant say alot about it. But what i can say is that the crystals appear to drop in too large and the alloys in too small packs per mineral vein. (thats how it is for me at least)

Eidolons:

The great Eidolons. As they were announced as very strong encounters that require alot of teamwork to kill i would rather say they are just another enemy with more health and more attacks as well as invulerable stages. While the first encounter might have been kind if exciting any further are nearly unfailable.

What i think Eidolons need to become the one powerfull enemytype that can even succeed over a tenno as a single being, are mainly thoughtfull moves. What i mean by this are precise attacks and chaotic combined with a faster pace. Maybe this might not be the case for the current eidolon miniboss, as this one was described as a mindless wanderer, but i would love to see something like that in the future! (please dont make upcoming eidolons just a copy-paste verson of the first one and adding a few new perks to them, as it appeared to be the case on the last devstream [where you showed us the anticlimatik orange copy of the currently existing eidolon])

I might have brought up alot of negative arguments about PoE, but negative arguments are not always ment to be negative feedback. As long as we provide our complains to DE they will be able to change their creation based on them. To make clear that this is the only intention i have by writing this i will say and mean that DE has been and is an amazing team that provided us a game that i loved over the past 3 years and i surely want to keep this love alive and keep experiencing exciting gameplay in warframe. I dont mean anyone any harm with this and i just want to provide my thoughts to those who might want to get some feedback. If this comment happened to inspire anyone at DE it was absolutely worth to take the time to write it down.

I doubt it, but if anyone from DE should want to hear more about my thoughts (hopefully because i actually inspired you) i would be glad to help you however i can!

Because i don't know if it is allowed to ask for your opinions about my comment in a thread that isnt made by me i would suggest you not to comment on this directly. If you want to start a new thread about this feel free to copy-paste this text and pm me about it. :)

regards,

Plagin

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5 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

EDIT: The ranking system for the NPC question has been changed, you can not attribute the same ranking to multiple NPCs,

Unless this was literally done within the last 5 minutes, you can.

I gave Konzu, Suumbat and Onnko all 2s.

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Of note, I want to talk about the aliveness of the Plains and Cetus. I gave the animals a 6, and Cetus a 7 or 8. They do fit into the game and add immersion, but animals are kinda sparse and lack variety. There are no friendly/neutral NPCs on the Plains, so it kinda feels empty in a way even with all the wildlife in there. The marketplace desperately needs a lot more vendors to "come online", and a bit more AI should live like normal citizens do. There are no resource gathering expeditions that aren't made by us. I want to see Grineer actively drilling into various parts of the plains for their own resources (Grineer extractors, anyone?) and traveling Merchants make their way through the plains to Cetus.

In relation to the Grineer, the camps are pretty good, although I'd love to see Fortresses with fleshed out interiors so we can take over them for a limited time and plant friendlies/specters there to guard them for us. There are a ton of vehicles on the plains, but they don't really move around, so they may as well be buildings. Grineer patrols could be implemented with the Grineer's own missions, and give a purpose to the otherwise static vehicles.

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