Do we really need new content ingame?

[AperoBeltaTwo]

16 hours ago, zornyan said:

Don’t forget the wait within, people up and leaving left right and centre just because they hadn’t had new content for a while.

end of the day DE is a business in it to make money, if new constant content is what makes that money then that’s what they will do.

if they saw profit in going back over old content then trust me they would.

its the same issue rainbow six siege had, for 6 months they did operation health, with over 1k bug fixes, optimisations, loads of pass overs and balance changes, yet it was the first decline in playerbase in over a year because of the lack of new content.

During the Wait Within there was no content AT ALL. Nothing. It's not the same thing. You miss the simple point:

Reworks Are New Content, but they have to not be a backhanded sh*t.

[Fallen_Echo]

2 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

During the Wait Within there was no content AT ALL. Nothing. It's not the same thing. You miss the simple point:

Reworks Are New Content, but they have to not be a backhanded sh*t.

I dont even understand why making some reworks takes soo long.

I cant even count how many times i have seen the "buff basic status mods" threads, seriously is it really that hard to type in 120 instead of what they have now?

Or using the code of the sobek acid shells on those explosive mods and so on.

They dont even need anything fancy here just literally tweak some numbers. They could go and "overpower" these mods and if in the end 50% of the playerbase uses them they can nerf them slightly, how many people would this take? 2?

[zornyan]

1 hour ago, Fallen_Echo said:

I dont even understand why making some reworks takes soo long.

I cant even count how many times i have seen the "buff basic status mods" threads, seriously is it really that hard to type in 120 instead of what they have now?

Or using the code of the sobek acid shells on those explosive mods and so on.

They dont even need anything fancy here just literally tweak some numbers. They could go and "overpower" these mods and if in the end 50% of the playerbase uses them they can nerf them slightly, how many people would this take? 2?

Let’s be honest here, with how the game is coded even a number change like that could fundamentally break the game, look at how Vor got broken for a week because of small dojo change

[Fallen_Echo]

7 minutes ago, zornyan said:

Let’s be honest here, with how the game is coded even a number change like that could fundamentally break the game, look at how Vor got broken for a week because of small dojo change

Thats another can of worms im not willing to open. A small change like increasing a number on a mod what only effects a weapon when its in it should not break the game in any way.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

3 hours ago, zornyan said:

Let’s be honest here, with how the game is coded even a number change like that could fundamentally break the game, look at how Vor got broken for a week because of small dojo change

3 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Thats another can of worms im not willing to open. A small change like increasing a number on a mod what only effects a weapon when its in it should not break the game in any way.

How does that even work? xD

 

[Fallen_Echo]

12 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

How does that even work? xD

 

I honestly have no idea how can they create such bugs, i really hope that they not interlinked every little piece of code to every other one.

[xXDeadsinxX]

We really do need new content every couple of weeks. That’s how Warframe works. If new content stopped, veteran players would honestly quit, since there would be nothing to do in the game.

[Fallen_Echo]

Just now, xXDeadsinxX said:

We really do need new content every couple of weeks. That’s how Warframe works. If new content stopped, veteran players would honestly quit, since there would be nothing to do in the game.

Thats fine but we dont necessearly need new content, reworking old content would be enough to keep veterans here and newbies interested.

[xXDeadsinxX]

2 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Thats fine but we dont necessearly need new content, reworking old content would be enough to keep veterans here and newbies interested.

While I do agree, I disagree as well. I’d be perfectly fine if DE started reworking on older content that needs it. However, not all veterans are going to be interested with the older content without newer content.

I do understand where you’re coming from though. Digital Extremes does need to rework older content in the game.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 hours ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

We really do need new content every couple of weeks. That’s how Warframe works. If new content stopped, veteran players would honestly quit, since there would be nothing to do in the game.

 That's called content fatigue. And it's not a problem that could be solved with more content. 

 The only way to combat content fatigue is to design the game with replayability in mind. DE spent months and months creating quests that have zero replayability value. And the more guns and warframes are introduced to the game, the less of playtime they add to the game individually, since you have such a huge variety already that new stuff has to be really f##king good to stand out at all.
 Especially for the beginner players that don't even know what's new and what's old - newbies don't care about new content at all. They care only about gameplay and progression.

 You can't regularly produce junk content and work on replayability of the core gameplay at the same time. It's impossible. Devs can't clone themselves to accommodate. So a choice has to be made. And unfortunately the decision was made in the direction of fighting content fatigue by adding even more junk to the game.

 It's unsustainable.

Edited December 4, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[AperoBeltaTwo]

4 hours ago, xXDeadsinxX said:

While I do agree, I disagree as well. I’d be perfectly fine if DE started reworking on older content that needs it. However, not all veterans are going to be interested with the older content without newer content.

I do understand where you’re coming from though. Digital Extremes does need to rework older content in the game.

•  Think of it this way: if tomorrow DE add scaling kuva rewards to kuva fortress' rewards table, a lot of the people who stopped playing kuva missions because they're tedious as hell and incredibly boring will come back to the game to check it out. It's easy to do and endless kuva missions could add hours and hours of playtime for a reasonable reward (if it's gonna be reasonable and not 100 kuva for a single mission / rotation), That's just one example.

 Content doesn't have to be new from ground up to feel fresh. There's a ton of gameplay elements and mechanics that people don't use because there was never an incentive to do that. Yet those elements took development time and effort and could feel quite novel to a lot of players who didn't see a reason to engage with those gameplay elements prior to that.

More examples (note: NO TIMER LOCKS ON ANY MISSION REWARDS):

• High-level mission randomizer with token rewards with a token shop for expensive tradeble goods. 
• Use void missions as permanent fissures that allow players to pick whatever mission they want in addition to the starchart ones. (Mot survival, for example, would be a permanent Axi-survival fissure). Make so rotations B and C would auto-refine the relics equipped to flawless and radiant; and AABCAA rotations would refine any relics equipped to +1 rank. (there's a ton of other ways to incentivize endless missions again; it's the current one that doesn't work).
• Add an INGAME tutoral to the Raids. Add a marker pointer that would tell people what to do IN THE MISSION.

 These 4 examples I mentioned alone will be hundreds of hours of gameplay, if done. They wouldn't require anything new built from ground up. Would only make the existing content worthwhile and replayable. And none of the examples is particularly hard or complicated to do.

 Even all four examples combined in development hours would barely take a tenth of the time it took to make PoE, while giving much more gameplay time.

P.S. And that's just something I myself could come up with (with the help of some people on the forums). Imagine how much else could be done with the existing game mechanics that are simply in disarray, because Dev's are so preoccupied with dumping more and more junk gear and stuff into Warframe, instead of working on polishing what they already have.

Edited December 4, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Fallen_Echo]

3 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

•  Think of it this way: if tomorrow DE add scaling kuva rewards to kuva fortress' rewards table, a lot of the people who stopped playing kuva missions because they're tedious as hell and incredibly boring will come back to the game to check it out. It's easy to do and endless kuva missions could add hours and hours of playtime for a reasonable reward (if it's gonna be reasonable and not 100 kuva for a single mission / rotation), That's just one example.

 Content doesn't have to be new from ground up to feel fresh. There's a ton of gameplay elements and mechanics that people don't use because there was never an incentive to do that. Yet those elements took development time and effort and could feel quite novel to a lot of players who didn't see a reason to engage with those gameplay elements prior to that.

More examples (note: NO TIMER LOCKS ON ANY MISSION REWARDS):

• High-level mission randomizer with token rewards with a token shop for expensive tradeble goods. 
• Use void missions as permanent fissures that allow players to pick whatever mission they want in addition to the starchart ones. (Mot survival, for example, would be a permanent Axi-survival fissure). Make so rotations B and C would auto-refine the relics equipped to flawless and radiant; and AABCAA rotations would refine any relics equipped to +1 rank. (there's a ton of other ways to incentivize endless missions again; it's the current one that doesn't work).
• Add an INGAME tutoral to the Raids. Add a marker pointer that would tell people what to do IN THE MISSION.

 These 4 examples I mentioned alone will be hundreds of hours of gameplay, if done. They wouldn't require anything new built from ground up. Would only make the existing content worthwhile and replayable. And none of the examples is particularly hard or complicated to do.

 Even all four examples combined in development hours would barely take a tenth of the time it took to make PoE, while giving much more gameplay time.

P.S. And that's just something I myself could come up with (with the help of some people on the forums). Imagine how much else could be done with the existing game mechanics that are simply in disarray, because Dev's are so preoccupied with dumping more and more junk gear and stuff into Warframe, instead of working on polishing what they already have.

Now this is what i was talking about!

There could be soo much content added if DE would go back and revisit the old places. Just in this second i thinked about an expansion of the dark sector areas to give people the long sought higher level nodes to play.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

3 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

•  Think of it this way: if tomorrow DE add scaling kuva rewards to kuva fortress' rewards table, a lot of the people who stopped playing kuva missions because they're tedious as hell and incredibly boring will come back to the game to check it out. It's easy to do and endless kuva missions could add hours and hours of playtime for a reasonable reward (if it's gonna be reasonable and not 100 kuva for a single mission / rotation), That's just one example.

 Content doesn't have to be new from ground up to feel fresh. There's a ton of gameplay elements and mechanics that people don't use because there was never an incentive to do that. Yet those elements took development time and effort and could feel quite novel to a lot of players who didn't see a reason to engage with those gameplay elements prior to that.

More examples (note: NO TIMER LOCKS ON ANY MISSION REWARDS):

• High-level mission randomizer with token rewards with a token shop for expensive tradeble goods. 
• Use void missions as permanent fissures that allow players to pick whatever mission they want in addition to the starchart ones. (Mot survival, for example, would be a permanent Axi-survival fissure). Make so rotations B and C would auto-refine the relics equipped to flawless and radiant; and AABCAA rotations would refine any relics equipped to +1 rank. (there's a ton of other ways to incentivize endless missions again; it's the current one that doesn't work).
• Add an INGAME tutoral to the Raids. Add a marker pointer that would tell people what to do IN THE MISSION.

 These 4 examples I mentioned alone will be hundreds of hours of gameplay, if done. They wouldn't require anything new built from ground up. Would only make the existing content worthwhile and replayable. And none of the examples is particularly hard or complicated to do.

 Even all four examples combined in development hours would barely take a tenth of the time it took to make PoE, while giving much more gameplay time.

P.S. And that's just something I myself could come up with (with the help of some people on the forums). Imagine how much else could be done with the existing game mechanics that are simply in disarray, because Dev's are so preoccupied with dumping more and more junk gear and stuff into Warframe, instead of working on polishing what they already have.

I think I'm in love.

[midtarget]

On December 2, 2017 at 1:36 PM, zornyan said:

He problem is DE don’t play their game, which is obvious by changes such as to volts “tweaks” we just received, or the laughable reworks of late.

 

things actually got better for a while when Steve was doing a play though on stream, he had to start a new account and was playing the game (without god mod like DE usually does) and had to actually do things like craft his weapons and fight normally.

 

when this happened we did actually get good QOL tweaks, but then Steve stopped for POE and so did the improvements.

 

as many many streamers/you tubers have pointed out though, the new player experience is @(*()$ dreadful, and Steve really needs to pick this up again, as it’s potentially losing them huge amounts of players/sales.

Prime times, de can actually play games, but there are also limits to what they can do

[Terrornaut]

On 12/3/2017 at 1:33 PM, zornyan said:

The rest were before they said this, this was a statement in the summer of this year, after all the reworks you mentioned, basically they said after the limbo issue, and feedback they’ve had, along with the fact that reworks don’t provide enough income for time spent they won’t be doing big ability changes anymore, just small buffs/number tweaks, but no new skills/animations etc

Makes me wonder if we're going to have to offer to pay $5.99 each for them to fix zephyr.

 

Much wisdom in this thread.  There are so many sentiments and calls for action I agree with, but then funny enough the things they specifically don't like or mention are things I am satisfied with.  We feel the same things yet are on different sides of the issue?
 

[Fallen_Echo]

4 hours ago, Terrornaut said:

Makes me wonder if we're going to have to offer to pay $5.99 each for them to fix zephyr.

 

Much wisdom in this thread.  There are so many sentiments and calls for action I agree with, but then funny enough the things they specifically don't like or mention are things I am satisfied with.  We feel the same things yet are on different sides of the issue?
 

I really hope they do some actual rework on Zephyr and not just add some meaningless graphics effect like they did with hydroids tentacles.

Her skills either need complete reworks or some insane buffing to be considered useful.

11 hours ago, midtarget said:

Prime times, de can actually play games, but there are also limits to what they can do

I wish they would play more, i would love to see them doing defection runs to find system over and over again for hours.

[StabbyTentacles]

On 12/3/2017 at 3:52 AM, Fallen_Echo said:

Can a new player tell that they are playing something brand new or just the upgrade of an existing system?

Our game has an ever growing pile of content what either became obsolote due to new content or was never ever even worth using.

For example we have the archwing system what is so detached from the base gameplay its entirely useless in 90% content. Then there is the channel system what is soo badly executed a sane person wouldnt bother using it on, well anything. The darksectors are pretty much forgotten contentwise, they are there and thats all.

Cant we sit back for a month and try to remake the old forgotten into something what could catch the eyes of everybody? Piling more and more bricks on an unstable table wont gonna hold out for too long, at one point that table gonna start making creacking noises then crash under the weight of unfinished systems.

For example we have the archwing system what is so detached from the base gameplay its entirely useless in 90% content.

Cough the operator 'system' is even further detached from the base gameplay it's entirely useless in over 90% content.

On 12/4/2017 at 7:09 PM, AperoBeltaTwo said:

No, we need DE to play their own game and fix it.

Agreed, if DE played the operator for more than 5 minutes, they'd notice the insane redundancy of it. Oh yeah and all the other issues, movement, combat, Warframe abilities... enemies... weapons...

 

Lmao, movement; hey DE watch any youtuber, and spot the macro they use, you do realize/understand that having all players using maco's is not 'good' design. And players using macro's kinda points to some crappy choices... But hey stack on some more ctl-shift-space-w-a-s-d moves geniuses.

Edited December 5, 2017 by StabbyTentacles

[AperoBeltaTwo]

15 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

There could be soo much content added if DE would go back and revisit the old places. Just in this second i thinked about an expansion of the dark sector areas to give people the long sought higher level nodes to play.

Another example that completely slipped my mind. There has to be a reward there, though. Something worthwhile. And it can't be anything that you only need to get once (mods are a rubbish mission-exclusive reward - you hate every second of farming them, if they don't drop for too long; they're only needed once, so afterwards you have no reason to repeat the grind anyway). It has to be something like Kuva, something easily expendable and rooted into the trading system. Not endo - it's not expendable enough and too easy to acquire; nor relics - same thing.

14 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I think I'm in love.

I'm not sending pictures, mate. Sorry xD (thank you, tho)

[AperoBeltaTwo]

14 hours ago, midtarget said:

Prime times, de can actually play games, but there are also limits to what they can do

 Most people don't play warframe on streams, under pressure. And with all respect to Space Mom, she's not a dev. She's a community manager with no authority. And she's not a particularly hardcore player either. There are guys with 4-10k hours of gameplay expierience who know every detail, every system, every bug of the game. DE has to have the same level of knowledge and understanding of the game. I understand, that it takes a lot of time to build up an account and play the game on top of developing it, but it should have been done from the start. It's the specifics of the job.

14 hours ago, midtarget said:

Prime times, de can actually play games, but there are also limits to what they can do

3 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

I wish they would play more, i would love to see them doing defection runs to find system over and over again for hours.

I want to see Steve and Scott complete any raid in a random team, without being completely useless.
For me seeing that would mean I'm wrong about them not playing the game, which would be great.

If it's gonna be JV, I'll be especially happy, since myself can't do that sh*t without my butt hurting in 10 places. 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

3 hours ago, StabbyTentacles said:

Cough the operator 'system' is even further detached from the base gameplay it's entirely useless in over 90% content.

I'll just leave it here.

 

[ikkabotz]

People should listen to Apero, he's basically laying it out there for all to understand the frustration of loving the game but knowing there's so many angles at the core left hanging . .I don't need more eye candy, more meaningless expansion of the game. I need a game that plays solid to keep me playing it. Warframe does not have this anymore. Many of those chasing the carrot on the stick now will eventually realize there's nothing beyond what's propped up within the game. or Maybe not, maybe they like it? For me this is the real "deal breaker" though and the game is just not challenging at all. I've known for a very long time but only recently accepted Warframe truly as an "unplayable" game after a very long time bargaining with myself in denial about it.

You either dominate or get annihilated. In between that evolution there's really a pretty hollow way of expressing "gameplay". Honestly I've known for the greater part of 8 months the gameplay felt like nothing more than working in a button factory. I was chasing a pipe dream of what the game used to be thinking it'd "fix". .the game is not evolving in an intriguing direction, I'd argue it's nothing but a shell of one incomplete project to another. .We don't have real reward systems. We don't have real expressive gameplay. There's already an entire solar system on this game with mostly meaningless content in it. We don't need more of it. We need what's there to be improved at least somewhere to keep it intriguing beyond a grind simulator which it feels like it's becoming progressively more and more. . Game played a lot better a couple years ago.

Edited December 9, 2017 by komoriblues

[DiabolusUrsus]

Relevant.

DE isn't quite as bad as some of the policies in the video, but they've kinda gotten caught up in something similar.

And they're not taking steps to make this practice viable.

Edited December 9, 2017 by DiabolusUrsus
Link Fix'd Hopefully

[AperoBeltaTwo]

16 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Relevant.

DE isn't quite as bad as some of the policies in the video, but they've kinda gotten caught up in something similar.

And they're not taking steps to make this practice viable.

the link is broken 

[DiabolusUrsus]

2 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

the link is broken 

Dammit. Will try to fix.

Seems fixed, please check.

Edited December 9, 2017 by DiabolusUrsus

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Dammit. Will try to fix.

Seems fixed, please check.

Thanks m8. Fixed. Ah, I've tweeted this video to Steve recently. (yeah I'm that kind of annoying twitter person)

Edited December 9, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo