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PSA: [PC] Upcoming Changes to Gara's "Mass Vitrify" (Bonus Volt Info)

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13 minutes ago, MartinVole said:

Sounds detrimental, not constructive. She's not used much as-is, and there are no proposals being made to improve her other abilities in kit to compensate. This may obsolete her altogether.

The only reason I don't use Gara is because I don't like her appearance. It has nothing to do with her power, which is off the scale if you take advantage of her power synergies.

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9 minutes ago, VirtualViolet said:

It's different from Frost's Snow Globe, not necessarily better or worse in every circumstance. Mass Vitrify blocks enemies from moving through it once it hardens; Globe does not. Vitrify will break apart in sections, not all-or-nothing like Globe. Vitrify's range/size can be dynamically controlled by how long you let it expand; Globe has a static size that can only be altered by changing mods. Vitrify deals area damage outside the wall when shattered with Gara's first ability, while Globe deals area damage inside the the globe when shattered with Frost's first ability. Vitrify does not block friendly fire at all, while Globe does block friendly fire from the outside.

Also, there's the synergy with Splinter Storm to consider. If you think Mass Vitrify is terrible, you aren't using it right. (By the way, you can end the expansion of the wall early by pressing the power button again.) Overall, I think that even after the change, Mass Vitrify will still be exceptionally powerful, more so than Snow Globe in most situations.

I'm not denying that the change is a nerf, but it's not an unwarranted one, nor does it break the ability. I agree with the idea that it shouldn't have both health and a duration limit, though. That was the same problem with Snow Globe for a while.

Unless DE has suddenly gained understanding of how to properly scale HP based abilities in lv 100 missions Vitrify will immediately be busted through in whatever direction enemies are coming from rendering it immediately useless in an objective defense situation. Non scaling damage means it wont even clear the enemies that manage to destroy sections of the wall. All this is going to become is  a fancier frost globe.

If DE wants to nerf something, nerf the duration so it contrasts with globe instead of turning it into one.

Edited by ADirtyMonk
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4 minutes ago, (PS4)EliteHunterZeroX said:

With changes to Gara, please gift a forma who have installed a Forma!!!

pfft with these changes to gara's 4th ability, DE should gift the amount of forma you put into gara previously and atleast gift us the 200 and something plat we waisted to buy her. because this frame is going to be just...garbage if these changes go through. and trust me they're going to go through because DE has this mindset of "ok so we can make this worse and eventually the community will see it as a buff to a new type of gameplay" like no you're taking the very thing that makes this frame remotely useful, and very different from other frames away. HERE'S  THE THING COMMUNITY, as I see it gara was more of a defense frame than an all out damage dealing frame. she was more of a passive active in terms of damage dealing. yeah you can attack with her first ability, but what can you do with your first ability? huh? use it on your wall that protecting you, your downed teammate that's for some reason a loki main and the objective to deal damage in a radius. her 2nd ability buffs you or your teammates, your 3rd caused confusion with enemies nearby and could potentially damage them your 4th builds a glass wall that can literally save you more times than you can get 25k credits from the index. with this nerf and no changes to her other abilities DE is trying to turn a passive-active defense frame into an active offensive frame. its not going to work. which is why I personally think gara will be shyt tier when this goes through. I joined warframe to be a ninja and I continued playing it for the storyline. there's no storyline just side quests for frames. and those frames get nerfed into oblivion. so what are we playing this farm simulator for at this point? open world? cool other games have that already. cool machenics? every game has cool machenics. why are we playing something to spend countless hours to farm for what is essentially an avatar with different abilities to just have those abilities nerfed to the point where they are useless.

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Wow, she'll be useless in anything above sortie level difficulity.. Fantastic change

 

Could I recommend hiring some playtesters?

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11 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Keepin it duration based but not invincible is moronic. How can they think this is a good idea?

Keep in mind this is coming from the Game designer(s) that thought Volt's Riot shield costs was a great idea.

Edited by ADirtyMonk
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9 minutes ago, VirtualViolet said:

 Mass Vitrify blocks enemies from moving through it once it hardens; Globe does not. Vitrify will break apart in sections, not all-or-nothing like Globe. Vitrify's range/size can be dynamically controlled by how long you let it expand; Globe has a static size that can only be altered by changing mods.

With the augment frost actually freezes a large portion of enemies and at the very least they're slowed down... the break apart on vitrify sounds ok in concept if you're using it on the plains (it still isn't in my opinion) as the enemy is spread out more but in tunnels (which is majority of the starmap) where all the enemies are hitting just one spot it's just not going to last long is it... especially seeing as it's got not scaling based off enemies, it's got a finite cap based on our mods...one of which requires us to sacrifice another 'utility mod' to ensure vitrify is as strong as possible.   

I'm betting it will fall short anything past level 40....

Edited by LSG501
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I really hope you guys think about this first.  

It needs to be atleast. ATLEAST. good as snow globe to make it useful. this will just kill her ability..  

why not just let the enemies get through the shield but not shoot instead once inside or something?  

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I bought the plat to buy her then put 4 forma into her and she was the most fun I had in idk how long ... I'll not say more but will think again before buying anything else for a while

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1 minute ago, NeptunePH said:

I really hope you guys think about this first.  

It needs to be atleast. ATLEAST. good as snow globe to make it useful. this will just kill her ability..  

why not just let the enemies get through the shield but not shoot instead once inside or something?  

They need to leave her 4 alone entirely if they want her to have a prayer of keeping up with frost, it already has enough drawbacks to compensate for the durability.  What they NEED to address is her 2's stacking DPS, which currently has no cap - you can stack it into the millions.  This does nothing to address her exploitative mechanics, and effectively removes her entire point as a defense frame.  There are easier ways to stun a room that don't cost that much, or take as long to cast.  There are beefier buff-based-tank frames, and her 1 needs a stat stick melee weapon to be useful. 

 

Also, her 3 sucks.

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3 minutes ago, VirtualViolet said:

It's different from Frost's Snow Globe, not necessarily better or worse in every circumstance. Mass Vitrify blocks enemies from moving through it once it hardens; Globe does not. Vitrify will break apart in sections, not all-or-nothing like Globe. Vitrify's range/size can be dynamically controlled by how long you let it expand; Globe has a static size that can only be altered by changing mods. Vitrify deals area damage outside the wall when shattered with Gara's first ability, while Globe deals area damage inside the the globe when shattered with Frost's first ability. Vitrify does not block friendly fire at all, while Globe does block friendly fire from the outside.

 

Snow Globe doesn't block enemies from coming in, it expels them across the room dealing %Finisher damage based on the distance.

It's theoretically the highest damage potential in the game.

The reason Gara's is able to grow larger is so she can use it Vitrify offensively. That's why it has a damage multiplier attached. Dynamic control of shielding size is irrelevant because the objective does not change in size. The synergy of damage between Gara's abilities also does not come into play for her key role as a Defensive frame.

When Gara is Defending an objective she has 2 abilities. Splinter Storm and Mass Vitrify. If you attempt to use any of the others you put the objective at risk. Vitrify is in every way a worse ability for Defending an objective after these changes. Immortal Vs HP, Expel Vs Stop, Instant Vs Cast-Time, Unending Vs Duration.

These changes destroy Gara in the one roll she excelled in, Defending.

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Please. Don't. Do. This. This is just making it a bad snow globe, why nerf a frame that is completely fine. STOP doing things like this for no reason. WHY not put there time on volts damage cap or mags everything then on a frame that needs nothing atm.

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1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

Meanwhile Volt's shield is still invulnerable, has no AoE vulnerabilities like both Gara and Frost

This is a cruel joke.

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I have been afraid that changes were coming for Mass Vitrify since I realized just how powerful it is....it's like the massive nerfs to Snow Globe all over again before it got rectified with the removal of its duration. Its actually worse this round because Mass Vitrify has several weaknesses that Snow Globe doesn't, including having duration, having a height limit that allows enemies to bypass it from above (mostly performed by enemies with jetpacks or teleportation), and its slow cast time. Turning Mass Vitrify into Snow Globe isn't the answer I feel  If it was me, I'd just nerf its base duration a bit, but otherwise leave most of what makes it unique as a defensive ability - its invulnerability to damage - alone. 

If the plan is go ahead with this changes, at the very least improve Mass Vitrify's utility by removing its duration, since the ability is now dependent on how strong enemy fire is to last in actual combat, and to give it the invulnerability and charge-up phases that abilities like Iron Skin and Snow Globe have that allows them to further increase their HP by taking damage. 

Edited by LGear

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1 minute ago, Ventura_Highway said:

This is a cruel joke.

And you can recast shields for Volt unlike Mass Vitrify.

354925296518168576.png
DE really makes me scratch my head with their consistency (that doesn't exist).

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I feel like these changes aren't really all that necessary and is just going to end up gimping the frame too much instead of helping it, since it is not going to receive any sort of scaling whatsoever. She needs other quality of life things and this isn't one of them. I mean there are already a lot of things that can bypass Mass Vitrify as is and that is fine since it is not completely encompassing a point like Frost's Snowglobe. 

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Just now, Trizion said:

I feel like these changes aren't really all that necessary and is just going to end up gimping the frame too much instead of helping it, since it is not going to receive any sort of scaling whatsoever.

Congratulations! You just summed up the Mag Rework.

366313628498001921.png

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2 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

And you can recast shields for Volt unlike Mass Vitrify.

354925296518168576.png
DE really makes me scratch my head with their consistency (that doesn't exist).

Electric Shield doesn't block enemy movement though, nor does it cover a massive area in a single cast, nor does it petrify even bosses for a long duration. 

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Why bother with breakable sections? If a section breaks you need to recast the whole thing because the mobs will go through the newly made gap. I was expecting it to get tweaked to do thngs like not trap the operative in sortie defense. I was not expecting it to require building Gara for Str and Armour which no one in their right mind focuses on once they have max % on her 2, and the have BOTH a duration and an HP limitation. Her 3 is still rubbish by the way.

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1 minute ago, LGear said:

Electric Shield doesn't block enemy movement though, nor does it cover a massive area in a single cast, nor does it petrify even bosses for a long duration. 

1) After these changes, neither can Gara. Enemies will just walk through if you play anything higher than Sedna. xD

2) Just because the area is big, doesn't make it useful. This thing will die within a few hits past sorties. Excavation will go back to Limbo, and Defense will go back to Frost.

3) Why petrify the boss if they are dead?

tenor.gif?itemid=4860406

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5 minutes ago, Ventura_Highway said:

This is a cruel joke.

 

It really is. Most Endurance runners will always pick Volt because he has more reliable shielding and gives the group a large damage buff.

The only time Frost or Gara get used are Defense missions. They don't really offer anything else in a team comp outside larger shielding.

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Just now, North-man said:

This will kill the variety of building Gara significantly as well as make her less fun in general.

Agreed.  She currently has a niche, this obliterates it. 

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