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[DE]Aidan

PSA: [PC] Upcoming Changes to Gara's "Mass Vitrify" (Bonus Volt Info)

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This thing better get 5 times Snow Globes health (At the very least) as it not only breaks, but also isn't covering above like snow globe does. 

And remember; this is an ULTIMATE ability.

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8 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

1) After these changes, neither can Gara. Enemies will just walk through if you play anything higher than Sedna. xD

2) Just because the area is big, doesn't make it useful. This thing will die within a few hits past sorties. Excavation will go back to Limbo, and Defense will go back to Frost.

3) Why petrify the boss if they are dead?

 

Most often bigger is worse anyways. Just makes it easier for a Nullifier to pop.

My Defense Gara used 94% Power Range for good reason.

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Just now, Enfo said:

This thing better get 5 times Snow Globes health (At the very least) as it not only breaks, but also isn't covering above like snow globe does. 

And remember; this is an ULTIMATE ability.

And you can´t cast multiple times

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I am very disappointed that I put the work in to get gara on console before the bounty rewards were fixed. I feel even worse for my friend that paid money for her. It feels like such a bait and switch. 

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23 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

It really is. Most Endurance runners will always pick Volt because he has more reliable shielding and gives the group a large damage buff.

The only time Frost or Gara get used are Defense missions. They don't really offer anything else in a team comp outside larger shielding.

 

Would you like to show me how they use Electric Shield then? I do not think the game is going to be balanced around these endurance runs, but I am interested in their allegedly heightened regard for the defensive aspects of this ability relatively to mine own.

Oh, yeah nevermind I'm not interested in camping out in a narrow alley for five hours. I'm glad they can use it to block junk when they find one little hole in the wall during their Survival, but I spent a lot of time outside of those enjoying the rest of the game, like in the great big Plains of Eidolon.

Edited by Ventura_Highway

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18 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

Snow Globe doesn't block enemies from coming in, it expels them across the room dealing %Finisher damage based on the distance.

It's theoretically the highest damage potential in the game.

The reason Gara's is able to grow larger is so she can use it Vitrify offensively. That's why it has a damage multiplier attached. Dynamic control of shielding size is irrelevant because the objective does not change in size. The synergy of damage between Gara's abilities also does not come into play for her key role as a Defensive frame.

When Gara is Defending an objective she has 2 abilities. Splinter Storm and Mass Vitrify. If you attempt to use any of the others you put the objective at risk. Vitrify is in every way a worse ability for Defending an objective after these changes. Immortal Vs HP, Expel Vs Stop, Instant Vs Cast-Time, Unending Vs Duration.

These changes destroy Gara in the one roll she excelled in, Defending.

2

Well said Xzorn, I've said this before, Gara is best used to buff tanks, deal close range damage, and protect objectives. She's inadvertently one of the best support frames in the game. I would hate for her to lose that unique aspect. I'm a little sick and tired of having the restrict my modding due to limited space, where you have to use every mod in the game for her to be good, or else she's a one-trick pony. I've seen that all too often.

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Whats wrong with you? Do you also like to give children candy during halloween and then take it back? 

Great ability made useless because of some short sighted ranting, good job on the overreaction there.

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6 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Hey Tenno,

Just wanted to drop in here and give a little update on some upcoming changes to Gara’s fourth ability: Mass Vitrify. Coming in the next update, this ability will no longer be invulnerable to damage. It will eventually break apart in sections when enough damage has been dealt to that specific section of the glass wall.

The wall’s health is determined by both your ability power strength and armor mods, just like Frost’s Snow Globe. This will give your enemies a few extra options for dealing with Mass Vitrify, leading to some more dynamic encounters when using the wall defensively. 

Please use this thread to discuss any questions or feedback. 

Thanks, Tenno!

Edit: Apologies Tenno, I have moved the Topic to the general news board to allow all users to contribute to the thread.

i want the new shotgun instead

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6 minutes ago, Ventura_Highway said:

Would you like to show me how they use Electric Shield then? I do not think the game is going to be balanced around these endurance runs, but I am interested in their allegedly heightened regard for the defensive aspects of this ability relatively to mine own.

 

The Volt player just keeps a line of shields in place for the team while the shields give everyone 200% Crit damage and 50% Electric for each shield they shoot through. He's not good for Defense. That's the only time a frame like Frost or Gara gets used cuz Volt is straight up better for Defending a team of players.

Like this:

Spoiler

gKHRzS4.jpg

I don't expect DE to balance level 1-9999. I just dislike when they attempt to balance something in the 1-100 range (which became trivial years ago) and part of the game I enjoy suffers as result. Gara's build diversity was great and I'm not looking forward to seeing what comes next. cuz she's certainly not my first pick for Survival.

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"oh no why would people pick gara now"

I dunno, the 90% damage reduction refreshable skill castable on anything with infinite damage stacking?

Still, it'd be awkward if her 4 ended up not being useful for anything BUT being a function for her 2.

Edited by OvisCaedo

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There are so much better ways to go on about this. If Mass Vitrify really, really, really must be nerfed to appease some unfathomably bruised egos, do the nerfing somewhere else. Make the vitrification slower, or reduce the damage multiplier enemies get while vitrified. If Gara really, really, really had to be nerfed in general, I'd be looking at her Splinter Storm instead. With these changes, she literally just becomes a worse Frost and a worse Inaros with no clear identity of her own.

I find incredibly amusing they go and announce these changes, which I'm sure will be heavily disputed, right when they talk about giving players a voice. Let's see if they'd actually listen to said voice.

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This change better include a removal of duration and good scaling for the ability (better then Snowglobe).

This is Gara's 4, these changes if not handled right will make it weaker then Frost's 3. We also can't cast it in multiple locations.Make it scale off Gara's Damage Reduction instead of armor, that at least forces some synergy with her 2.

I can't say I didn't see this coming, but DE really needs to make sure the ability is suitably buffed.

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With breakable sections will that mean nulifiers only break parts of the wall they touch and not the whole thing? 

Why not add something like a sweeping arc from #1 power be used to rebuild the wall. 

I just built the damn frame and was looking forward to a frost alternative. Maybe I just wont play gara tell the change so i wont miss what i never used.

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Must of been a great DE dev meeting today picture it went something like this:

Steve: Hey team lets figure out what we need to do? So let us toss some ideas at the wall and see what sticks.

1st toss: Let fix some older frames that are lack luster and power crept out. Fails to stick

2nd toss: Let rework Focus 2.0 cuz its just a stupidly crappy system and a unfun grind. Doesn't even hit the wall.

3rd toss: Lets redo conclave so players actually play it. "crickets"

4th toss: Lets get rid of these 8 player crappy instances. And rework it. nope

5th toss: Lets nerf gara and piss off 90% community players.

 

Steve: Hmmmm. That is a great idea let us do that. It's so original no one will see that coming. Not like we never done it before. Ok team get to work and figure out the best way to nerf Gara. And do it in a way that completely screws her and makes her gameplay completely useless.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, lZerul said:

This change better include a removal of duration and good scaling for the ability (better then Snowglobe).

This is Gara's 4, these changes if not handled right will make it weaker then Frost's 3. We also can't cast it in multiple locations.Make it scale off Gara's Damage Reduction instead of armor, that at least forces some synergy with her 2.

I can't say I didn't see this coming, but DE really needs to make sure the ability is suitably buffed.

It's all ready been confirmed duration stays. So its crippled by open areas, HP, and duration.

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..and now Gara is no longer the Queen of Defense. wonderful...

Mass Vitrify already had downsides, like not having a damn ROOF. those pesky Ogmas and Dargyns could still do strafing runs to their full extent on you (when are Ogmas gonna get nerfed btw? the constant carpet bombing is annoying as hell and they're harder to kill than any boss in the game!). sure it made defense vs ground enemies easy, but it also allowed us to control the potato-brained Hostage in Sortie defense: just put him in a glass jail and you don't have to worry about him wandering into Napalms for the 500th time.

and yet even with a health system, you're still keeping duration? that's just bad. I really don't see this working out well for Gara users at all. guess it'll be up to Frost to keep things defended properly, like always.

 

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37 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Volt is straight up better for Defending a team of players.

I've tried using four shields spread out like a snowglobe to stop people from getting hit, and that's just never worked out fine for me. I'm fine with disagreeing with you because it seems like we play this game totally differently. That's fine, I mean Warframe supports that, but I think your statement also includes a condition that is not very frequently found in common play.

I can get this thing to stop a Bombard facing me from prematurely ending me, pretty much whenever. I can maybe cover an unusually large opening with two shields. I have tried, many many times, to get that 360 degrees of defense like snow globe and MV pack, and it's frustrating and unworkable, and inefficient. When people talk about how Electric Shield is this unbreachable bastion, I am very ready to disagree, because I've been killed plenty of times because I missed a tiny gap that a bullet fell through, I ran out of energy trying to supply all those shields with power, and, more recently, I've tried to block the bombs from an Ogma in Plains of Eidolon and my shield got flat-out ignored, and I got blown up.

EDIT: I'm not really trying to defend the current situation or anything, I just really don't think sticking durability on Electric Shield is going to be productive, especially when I throw those things around like styrofoam cups.

Edited by Ventura_Highway

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7 minutes ago, ChaotikDreamz said:

It's all ready been confirmed duration stays. So its crippled by open areas, HP, and duration.

You're forgetting that it will also be crippled by power strength now as well. There's an extra 2-3 mod slots if you want a wall that doesn't crumple like plastic.

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This is a bad nerf and ruins Gara. Instead of raising hell, we should make a peaceful post describing how this is terrible idea.

Edited by (PS4)OneNiceSeagull
It censored my words and looked @(*()$ ridiculous.
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8 minutes ago, ChaotikDreamz said:

It's all ready been confirmed duration stays. So its crippled by open areas, HP, and duration.

So they are straight up trashing her 4?

DE, you need to seriously reconsider this change.

Its simple: Duration = Invulnerability, No Duration = Not invulnerable.

These style of abilities need that distinction, when you nerfed Snow Globe you had to seriously buff it in order to justify its lack of invulnerability, giving it HP/ + Armor scaling and completely removing duration.

If you are set on getting rid of its vulnerability, you need to AT LEAST match those changes.

Armor scaling is also silly on a frame that doesn't rely on armor for durability. Frost at least has high base armor, Gara only has 125.

 

 

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1 minute ago, (PS4)OneNiceSeagull said:

This is a bad nerf and ruins Gara. Instead of raising hell, we should make a peaceful post describing how this is terrible idea.

Let's do both actually lol. In my 3 years I've never been more confused or displeased by such a massive nerf. At this rate we need 2 warframe games. One for people who just want to have fun with friends and one for people who want to nerf everything and make sure it's not too cool or entertaining.

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I've recently started playing Gara, and as a new player, have been having ton of fun playing as her as my main frame. While this change disappoints me, I can see why it's coming, and partially agree with it. That said, there are things that need to be fixed with her as well, and some buffs to go along with the nerf to keep the frame playable.

Currently, her 4 is a wall with a time limit that does that following at rank 30:
- it is invincible
- it fully blocks enemies and their fire* when fully cast
  - *in most cases. This needs to be fixed.
- it makes you invincible while casting
- it freezes enemies caught within the casting range
- allies can fire in and out of the wall 
- it refreshes her 2
- it buffs the damage of her 2
- unmodded, it costs 75 energy to cast, out of 225 energy, unmodded
- unmodded, the casting time is 3 or 4 seconds
- unmodded, it lasts 22 seconds (as does her 2)
- unmodded, it has an 11 meter radius

Right now, using Gara's 2 and 4 efficiently requires a lot of mods towards duration, energy pool and efficiency. You also need to keep an eye on the ability timer.
I wouldn't mind Gara's Mass Vitrify having limited health so long as;
- it is invincible during casting
- it scales up its health either during casting, or comparatively to Gara's own health and armor values

I don't really see a need to increase her 4's duration, unless her 2's duration is being buffed, as it's most likely going to be recast to refresh her 2 anyway. However, I do believe that it needs to either scale with one of two things;
- The damage it or Gara takes during casting, so that it can keep the same general effectiveness throughout all levels of play, or
- The health and armor values of Gara herself, making her have a general enemy level cap that her 4 can put up with.

Gara also doesn't have any Augment mods yet. I do not know the lore regarding Augment mods, or if there is any. But if she dos get some, then a good Augment mod could be to change how her 4's scaling works. Say, by default, it scales according to damage taken during casting, but you could get an Augment mod that would make the health of her 4 scale with her health and armor instead.

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