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[DE]Aidan

PSA: [PC] Upcoming Changes to Gara's "Mass Vitrify" (Bonus Volt Info)

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A change so fast when Gara has been released recently? I logged in just to post on this topic since this feels like I've wasted my Orokin Reactor and 3 Forma's on Gara.

I don't think she should be nerf'd this bad. This changes entirely how I play Gara and will ruin my experience with her once this goes live.

Why change her 4th ability when her 3rd ability is not worth casting at all?

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So her ult is now just a worse Snowglobe?  Awesome.  Guess Gara's crap now, back to using Frost I guess.  Why does DE always do this?  For once, there was FINALLY a frame that could compete with Frost - not in every respect (Mass Vitrify costs more, doesn't last forever and you can only have one), but it was a solid alternative.  Now?  She's objectively worse than Frost.  Woot.

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Why though, [DE]Aiden? Why does Gara need these nerfs? Shattering Lash and Spectrorage are useless, so don't you think these incoming changes are going overboard?

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11 minutes ago, JuicyPop said:

There is a difference between being useless and unworthy of serious consideration. She is certainly not useless given her 90% DR buff, but that alone isn't compelling enough to bring her along for endless relic runs from my perspective. 

She has the highest scaling damage ability in the game with her 2 + 4 combo, seems pretty compelling to me.

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4 minutes ago, DarkKatalyst said:

Why though, [DE]Aiden? Why does Gara need these nerfs? Shattering Lash and Spectrorage are useless, so don't you think these incoming changes are going overboard?

Hey, Shattering Lash is not useless. It's cheap and quick CC that deals a hell of a lot of damage and scales with melee damage mods. 

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8 hours ago, AlendasNaro said:

I more of assume Gara is becoming basically useless. Well... We all know the DE's history what comes on nerfs.

Yes because we finally poured in money to get her... I mean plat... now its gonna be shelved...GG

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Invincible wall into a buggy break piece by piece wall? If by invincible wall you mean that enemies guns without fail always glitch through it and shoot then alright....

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25 minutes ago, GreyRunner said:

She has the highest scaling damage ability in the game with her 2 + 4 combo, seems pretty compelling to me.

Tedious is the term that comes to mind, especially given that damage is never really an issue in a proper group. 

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Il y a 8 heures, [DE]Aidan a dit :

Hey Tenno,

Just wanted to drop in here and give a little update on some upcoming changes to Gara’s fourth ability: Mass Vitrify. Coming in the next update, this ability will no longer be invulnerable to damage. It will eventually break apart in sections when enough damage has been dealt to that specific section of the glass wall.

The wall’s health is determined by both your ability power strength and armor mods, just like Frost’s Snow Globe. This will give your enemies a few extra options for dealing with Mass Vitrify, leading to some more dynamic encounters when using the wall defensively. 

Please use this thread to discuss any questions or feedback. 

Thanks, Tenno!

Edit: Apologies Tenno, I have moved the Topic to the general news board to allow all users to contribute to the thread.

So duration + EHP, just like Frost's old Snow Globe, which you've changed because of this reason, plus it'll break in an specific section, most likely meaning each section will have it's own EHP, so certain sections will break first, effectively forcing you to recast the ability because of just one section, since your defense pod could get blow up from a bombard rocket in that direction, basically this means now Gara's 4th and Ultimate ability is a worst version of Frost's 3rd ability, which has 4 seconds of invulnerability, instant cast, covers 360°, is way more energy efficient and has almost instant cast 

 

Edit: and I forgot, you can stack up to 4 Snow Globes or cast 4 Snow Globes in different places, which means Frost was better at multiple objectives defense missions

 

I think it's pretty clear Mass Vitrify already had tradeoffs when comparing it to Snow Globe, thus making it a side grade to the ability and not taking out of the game the almighty king Frost, the likes of who, has been the go to defense Warframe since his release.

Edited by RazrOutlaw
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I'm hoping that the segment of wall upon shattering will cause an area blind affect (due to the shattered glass) to further CC the mobs.

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Don't forget to remove "This is Gara, the unbreakable warrior." from Gara's Warframe Profile video on your official channel, DE.

Also, i have an ideas to other QOL for you:

Nova's Molecular prime now slow down only 10 enemies

Rhino's movement speed decreased drastically if iron skin activated

Inaros' Scarab Swarm lose 1% of charge with every enemy hit

Ivara's Prowl and Valkyr's Hysteria now have duration of 1 minute and consumes 15 energy per second

Trinity's Energy Vampire and Blessing now have 160s cooldown

Edited by Cloverdew
fixed, thanks Glyphicall
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1 minute ago, Cloverdew said:

Don't forget to remove "This is Gara, the unbreakable warrior." from Gara's Warframe Profile video on your official channel, DE.

Also, i have an ideas to other QOL for you:

Ivara's Prowl now affected by duration and still drain energy

Nova's Molecular prime now slow down only 10 enemies

Rhino's movement speed decreased drastically if iron skin activated

Inaros' Scarab Swarm lose 1% of charge with every enemy hit

Valkyr's Hysteria now affected by duration and consumes 15 energy per second

Trinity's Energy Vampire and Blessing now have 160s cooldown

To be fair, Valkyr's Hysteria and Ivara's Prowl were both actually affected by duration already... although I guess not in the way you mean. 

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Nerfing Gara like this makes no sense. From my limited experience with Gara, the only thing truly "OP" about her is the infinite damage scaling on Splinter Storm. The only thing that makes her feel unique is her impenetrable wall, which has a limited duration, so we still have to mod heavily towards that to make it effective. In my opinion Mass Vitrify is perfect as it is and nerfing it like this just makes it a worse copy Frost's Snowglobe with duration and long cast-time. And just to be clear, even if duration is removed it won't change anything, it'll still be a worse version of Snowglobe. I was hoping to put 3-4 forma on her and make a strong defensive build, but with a nerf like this I'm just gonna leave her behind and stick with Frost.

If a nerf has to happen - put a damage cap or diminishing returns on Splinter Storm and leave Mass Vitrify as it is.

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33 minutes ago, Cloverdew said:

Don't forget to remove "This is Gara, the unbreakable warrior." from Gara's Warframe Profile video on your official channel, DE.

Also, i have an ideas to other QOL for you:

Nova's Molecular prime now slow down only 10 enemies

Rhino's movement speed decreased drastically if iron skin activated

Inaros' Scarab Swarm lose 1% of charge with every enemy hit

Ivara's Prowl and Valkyr's Hysteria now have duration of 1 minute and consumes 15 energy per second

Trinity's Energy Vampire and Blessing now have 160s cooldown

Mesa's Peacemaker now has an ammo limit that slowly refreshes over 300s. 

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Is this going to turn it into another loki spectre? Because if so a wet tissue provides better cover.

If its going to be a frost wall.. it might need %damage reduction on it instead of defenses. Gara doesnt have much other than her splinter storm

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How about to give it a bit of a scaling element have it add the HP of enemies caught in the initial cast to the health of the wall. Maybe like 30% affected by mods.

 

Edit: Also, the amount of doom saying in this thread is hilarious.

Edited by DrBorris

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Lmao so the wall not only needs to be built for strength, but also duration. But enemies can just shoot holes through it. Wouldn't the smart thing to do is just make it based on strength, why limit it on duration as well if enemies can already shoot through it and waltz right in? The thing already has a long as hell casting time, this nerf would be fine if duration penalty was removed, but you nerf it in two ways and do nothing to compensate?

And then you talk about "dynamic encounters" when Frost's snow globe has a fast cast time, you can spawn multiple instances of it, doesn't have a giant hole on the top, nor is it dependent on duration. Yeah real >dynamic< about spawning multiple instances of CC on Heiracon or any defense oriented mission. Snow globe isn't even his ult, this nerf and its garbage about being dynamic is hypocritical and infuriating. While we're on the subject, you could also just spam Vauban's Bastille (which doesn't have HP), again not his ult, which is mundane and boring as all hell because Vauban is a one dimensional CC frame.

>Armor mods

Cool, let me waste a mod slot for ONE ability for increased EHP even though she already has an ability in her kit that mitigates damage.

Sure.

Edited by DMXGeo
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Wow, so mass vitrify is going to become a duration-based snow globe with no top that can't be stacked? Good to know I wasted my time formaing something again. 

Honestly, in between the long cast times, energy usage and need to relocate mod slots for power strength, just in an effort to make a watered down snow globe that's most likely to break incredibly fast at high levels, Gara is not really a frame I see myself using anymore. 

If anything, it's only less dynamic because nobody is going to bother with Gara at anything pass level 50.

Edited by Seiko343
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This is technically a nerf, but it could also open up some synergy ideas with Spectrorage. Perhaps allow the ability to fill in the holes of the ring with mirrors, or just casting Spectrorage on the ring in general to reinforce Mass Vitrify's health/duration, or even making it so that it goes around the entire outside of the ring?

Another solution is to just allow multiple rings to be made without destroying the previous upon recasting.

Edited by Spot.
I had another idea :>

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For all of the people saying this is fine, bear in mind DE balances things around low level content. So after these changes you can expect MV to last all of 2 seconds at higher levels.

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@[DE]Aidan and team,

Lets slow down and instead of swinging the pendulum, lets find the middle ground and actually make Gara the frame she is supposed to be.

First off lets look at what her mass vitrify ability does (From the Wiki)

 -she becomes immobile and invulnerable upon casting, this also refreshes the duration on splinter storm. 
 -It creates a cylinder up to 11m wide and 12m tall of unbreakable glass. (range and duration mods can make it wider, but not taller)
 -coats enemies in molten glass that stops them for 16 seconds and increases incoming damage by 50%.
 -coated enemies will retain status effects until the glass effect wears off.
 -can be shattered with shattered lash and causes it to explode outward, this damage is added to splinter storm until it runs out.
 -enemies try to walk through it as if their pathfinding is damaged.
 -it costs 75 energy plus drain as you allow it to expand (comes out to about 100) and has a 22 second duration.

This is actually a pretty complex power!  But the community has brought up some solid points.

Some questions I have are:

If it is no longer invulnerable, why does it still have a duration?
If it works like Frost's snowglobe, will it have more durability to make up for not being able to stack them?
How big are the segments? If the enemy destroys a segment, will their pathfinding lead them all inside.
Will there be any plans to prevent nullifiers from destroying her cylinder?  Will they only nullify the segment they touch?
 

 

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13 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Yes, it will still be affected by duration.

how will it be comparable/better than another frame's NON-ultimate ability???

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anyway, we all know ofc you knew this would happen and rolled it as it was bc of those sweet plat buys from the kids watching and getting super pumped by those yt videos. perhaps some others will watch those videos and inadvertedly buy the frame not knowing about the changes, just bc oh you know the grindwall of bounties is such a nice way to tempt anyone to go crazy and just buy it, r? yeah, you can do this in peace ig ;)

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