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[DE]Aidan

PSA: [PC] Upcoming Changes to Gara's "Mass Vitrify" (Bonus Volt Info)

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This is a terrible and misguided change. Gara's 4 was balanced as it was, being a high energy cost, long cast-time, short duration, single instance defensive barrier. Its invulnerability made it worth these drawbacks - a wall that can shatter while keeping these downsides will not be, at all.

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Just now, Cryssoberyl said:

This is a terrible and misguided change. Gara's 4 was balanced as it was, being a high energy cost, long cast-time, short duration, single instance defensive barrier. Its invulnerability made it worth these drawbacks - a wall that can shatter while keeping these downsides will not be, at all.

see the wisdom in this man's words^?

@[DE]Aidan 

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What a shame. Such a misguided change fuelled by a disconnect between the game and the developers.

Edited by Dovahheim
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11 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Hey Tenno,

Just wanted to drop in here and give a little update on some upcoming changes to Gara’s fourth ability: Mass Vitrify. Coming in the next update, this ability will no longer be invulnerable to damage. It will eventually break apart in sections when enough damage has been dealt to that specific section of the glass wall.

The wall’s health is determined by both your ability power strength and armor mods, just like Frost’s Snow Globe. This will give your enemies a few extra options for dealing with Mass Vitrify, leading to some more dynamic encounters when using the wall defensively. 

Please use this thread to discuss any questions or feedback. 

Thanks, Tenno!

Withthese mini skill updates pls poke Trinity's well of wife pls D:

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This change is absolutely terrible you should not go through with it unless you make it an exact clone of frost globe because it has plenty of weaknesses as is so please do not make these terrible changes

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So Gara's 4 is going to be objectively worse than Frosts 3 now... y tho?

Edited by Snake_Oil
Forgot to capitalize Frost
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3 hours ago, Cloverdew said:

Don't forget to remove "This is Gara, the unbreakable warrior." from Gara's Warframe Profile video on your official channel, DE.

Also, i have an ideas to other QOL for you:

Nova's Molecular prime now slow down only 10 enemies

Rhino's movement speed decreased drastically if iron skin activated

Inaros' Scarab Swarm lose 1% of charge with every enemy hit

Ivara's Prowl and Valkyr's Hysteria now have duration of 1 minute and consumes 15 energy per second

Trinity's Energy Vampire and Blessing now have 160s cooldown

I don't think you should post sarcastic suggestions like this or they might be taken seriously.

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Is there still going to be a duration to it? snow globe removed duration for some reason, i figure if this can be used similarly, may be something to toss up..

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11 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Just wanted to drop in here and give a little update on some upcoming changes to Gara’s fourth ability: Mass Vitrify. Coming in the next update, this ability will no longer be invulnerable to damage. It will eventually break apart in sections when enough damage has been dealt to that specific section of the glass wall.

Let's talk about that for a moment.

I sincerely believe this will make Mass Vitrify almost exactly like Snow-globe. There are many reasons why this is not a good idea. This will drastically make Gara's 4 not worth casting at all, especially in the Plains. Considering that almost 90% of the enemies have some sort of energy attack (Gernades, Hellions, Anti-Moas, Bursas, etc.) Large portions of the wall will be broken due to how AoEs work. Gara's 4 is also not a protective dome like snow-globe; I mean the top of it is bare so certain enemies or pathings can just either jump (or clip through as tested at Akkad, some of the chargers found some way to clip through the wall) or just stand there. This also ruins what synergy Gara has with Zenith's alt fire.

 

12 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

The wall’s health is determined by both your ability power strength and armor mods, just like Frost’s Snow Globe. This will give your enemies a few extra options for dealing with Mass Vitrify, leading to some more dynamic encounters when using the wall defensively. 

Hopefully the scaling is good because eventually when you have 20+ enemies surrounding the wall, it's going go down fairly quickly and not have the chance to react once it gets blasted down by napalms and bombards. I suggest having the wall have an invulnerability period after the wall is finished so that you have a brief moment to access the situation. I would personally suggest around 2-4 seconds of invulnerability so that Gara can set up her 2 at least. I know DE intended to have Gara build more power strength so that the wall and mirror explosions are put to use but due to how limiting the mod slots are, we can only build her one way and that's a little bit of everything.

EV Trin works due to nuking duration and putting all power strength in. Bless lasts a few seconds but it's an instant heal and Energy Vampire gives efficient amount of energy to teammates.

Chaos Nyx works by nuking power strength; she's all CC and with Assimilate she could sit in that bubble for as long as she wants due to how drain works.

Gara can't do anything like that if her 4 is like this. This pushes max power strength Gara just so her wall can stand a couple of hits and how much damage her other abilities do. But Gara doesn't need any more than 150% power strength because of how her 2 works. Spectrorage mirrors have really poor health to absorb anything and Gara's 1 is kinda like Soul Punch except without the punch and more of a sit down power.

Rambling aside, Putting health on the wall isn't ideal. We can only hope the reworked wall can actually act like a wall. If not then all 4 will ever be used for will be for 2.

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4 hours ago, Danskheart said:

So her ult is now just a worse Snowglobe?  Awesome.  Guess Gara's crap now, back to using Frost I guess.  Why does DE always do this?  For once, there was FINALLY a frame that could compete with Frost - not in every respect (Mass Vitrify costs more, doesn't last forever and you can only have one), but it was a solid alternative.  Now?  She's objectively worse than Frost.  Woot.

She's not

While endgame frost involves spamming to stay alive

 

Gara uses the same mechanic but still has an ability that keeps her alive 

Ironically the globe like change works for Gara and not for frost

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3 hours ago, Eureka.seveN said:

She's not

While endgame frost involves spamming to stay alive

 

Gara uses the same mechanic but still has an ability that keeps her alive 

Ironically the globe like change works for Gara and not for frost

I think he meant in terms of defense. Because as any warframe player should know, Frost will always be king when it comes to defending against onslaughts. Gara's 4 was fine the way it was but now, the main part that worries me is the fact that pieces of her vritrify can now be broken off. Which from my perspective makes it absolutely useless when dealing with the amount of grineer explosions/ corpus onslaught warframe likes to throw at you. 

So all I'm seeing here is vritrify = useless in defense because tell me they aren't making changes to her cast time/energy cost, Vritirfy can be broken apart by enemies so it being re-castable has to be crucial but they aren't doing any changes to cast time, so what now? All this makes Gara is more leaning towards the tank/damage builds and CC with her 1 and 2 as her 3 was sub-par and now they are essentially butchering her 4. 

I guess I'll have to stick with my frost prime then anywho, foolish of me to think there was any alternative to defense king Frost.

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Seriously why don't you rework all her abilities to make them scale better, especially her mirrors? 

Or is this just going to be a straight flat nerf lmao XD

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)hellspeace said:

You must be kidding. Limbo can make that bubble for duration, Octavia is broken but Gara needs a nerf because she’s fun? Damn that sucks.

 

Lol right? Limbo is literally unkillable and can just freeze the rift and then spam his ult as he pleases to make sure he's always safe and only fighting enemies when they can't move. But a glass wall is too much ;)

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No more bullet proof glass :sadcry:.
Goodbye Mass Vetrify you'll becoming useless now.
Splinter Storm, you're the only one I can rely on so I hope DE wont nerf you also.

Nerfing Mass Vetrify is a bad idea in my opinion. I use Gara a lot especially on PoE content. Why putting HP on the wall when the wall can't protect you from above, it will only remove the uniqueness of this skills. I built my Gara for Max duration and Survivability making 1st and 3rd useless so making the wall hp base will use it only to refresh splinter storm.

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vor 6 Minuten schrieb (Xbox One)FISTO ROBOT0:

Lol right? Limbo is literally unkillable and can just freeze the rift and then spam his ult as he pleases to make sure he's always safe and only fighting enemies when they can't move. But a glass wall is too much ;)

Just hate it that DE nerfes the hell outta things just because some kiddies cryin around.

Damn just don’t play her if you don’t like her, why does that mean that if they don’t like her, no one else should have fun with her?? 

Garas 4 is opened on top, what makes it worse that frosts 3, it costs more energy so you can’t spam it. That duration based thing was good enough and not even op, if they want to nerf something than decrease the duration for a bit but don’t kill the damn ability 

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Figure I might as well throw myself into the ring here.

Yes, Mass Vitrify was potentially overpowered in its current state (an indestructible barrier coupled with almost complete area denial that only a few enemies can bypass outside of PoE doesn't seem right to me), but this isn't the way to go about it. If the proposed changes go through as they are, this will potentially destroy Mass Vitrify as a viable ability. Why? Because either the health it far too high for it to even matter, and we just get the same issue we currently have, or the health is too little for it to effectively block anything in higher levels, making it useless.

That's not the only issue though.  Mass Vitrify also has a huge cast time, which at the moment is a non-issue as you're invulnerable during cast and the barrier still takes effect. However if this change goes through, and there's no invulnerability period added to the barrier, the barrier will likely be destroyed before casting even finishes. If my understanding of the ability is correct, this also means the vitrification effect will also be cut short meaning the ability will not only fail as a defensive tool, but also as a CC tool. Imagine casting Frost's Snowglobe, but having it destroyed the second it comes out and not getting any of its CC effects. That's what you're doing to Gara.

Oh but wait, I'm not done yet! So not only is this change going to potentially butcher the ability as is, but you're still going to keep the duration handicap... why exactly? It's already getting severely handicapped by an arbitrary health limit that'll either be too little or too much, but it's still going to keep the balls end of the deal by having a duration to go with it?

No. Just no DE. You cannot simply just toss an arbitrary handicap on the ability that already has plenty of handicaps without tweaking the rest of the ability to compensate. And this is all happening without even touching what's arguably her weakest ability, Spectrorage. Due to the fundamentals of how damage reflection works in Warframe, Spectrorage is nigh unusable, as the damage is more than negligible. This isn't an issue with just Spectrorage, this is also an issue with Mesa's Shatter Shield and the Reflection mod. The reason why Spectrorage feels it the hardest though is because the ability relies on the damage reflection to be of any use, because the mirrors exploding just don't cut it either.

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ok so , now gara 4 after another bad rework will scale with duration , armor , range and power strength how we are supposed to build a decent configuration for the 4° ability?

u know what? is december so time to take out again frost 

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29 minutes ago, (PS4)hellspeace said:

You must be kidding. Limbo can make that bubble for duration, Octavia is broken but Gara needs a nerf because she’s fun? Damn that sucks.

 

:crylaugh:it's funny cause it's so true. 

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Honestly this sounds fair. So long as she also gets the part of Globe that has X amount of seconds where incoming damage is absorbed into glass health.

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