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[DE]Aidan

PSA: [PC] Upcoming Changes to Gara's "Mass Vitrify" (Bonus Volt Info)

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Changing Gara to power strength and armor instead of duration just makes her like every other defensive frame.  I'd love to hear why you would use her over Frost at this point?  The fact that she can lock down certain areas on some maps doesn't seem broken to me at all.  Some frames make certain mission types trivial yet those frames have remained for years.  I loved the fact she was duration based and her wall didn't have health.  Oh well.  Back to Frost/Limbo/Vauban I go.  Gara will just sit in my inventory with a wasted eidolon lens.      

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il y a 3 minutes, RedToothKaki a dit :

No duration, but health

This is in fact an other problem because we still need duration for the 2.

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1 minute ago, Veisper said:

This is in fact an other problem because we still need duration for the 2.

EXACTLY.  Her kit will be busted.  Reminds me of Nezha...

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4 minutes ago, HedrusPrime said:

Changing Gara to power strength and armor instead of duration just makes her like every other defensive frame.  I'd love to hear why you would use her over Frost at this point?  The fact that she can lock down certain areas on some maps doesn't seem broken to me at all.  Some frames make certain mission types trivial yet those frames have remained for years.  I loved the fact she was duration based and her wall didn't have health.  Oh well.  Back to Frost/Limbo/Vauban I go.  Gara will just sit in my inventory with a wasted eidolon lens.      

ember makes any mission type trivial. equinox too. though equinox doesn't have good damage on his/her 4th ability in high levels...its only good for stunning enemies briefly. ember however, flash accelerant build can scale. slowly but surely and takes a lot of effort lol. Excalibur with chroma's elemental augment thing with just about anything with dual stat mods and condition overload, makes even sorties trivial at times. there's a lot of frames that makes things easy just can't think of em all rn. Nova is especially one of them though.

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Il y a 21 heures, [DE]Aidan a dit :

First, the ability will no longer be affected by Duration. Its longevity will be determined solely by its health, or whether or not the player decides to break it with Shattered Lash. We are also reviewing the wall health values incase further changes are needed. Second, when each section of the wall breaks, it will deal AoE damage that will scale with ability Strength Mods

Still 0 scaling with enemy level via absorption of damage or a least an invul. period, doesn't solve anything. 

Frost's snowglobe is still superior to Gara's ultimate in nearly every aspect. And btw Frost can also do the exact same thing as Gara's old 4 if he wants to do so. 

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I think its safe to assume its like 90% in favor of no nerf 10% in favor of nerf...for some odd reason..maybe theyre frost players lol

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Il y a 21 heures, [DE]Aidan a dit :

In Gara’s case we just didn’t feel it was appropriate to her kit to be able to lock down some maps indefinitely or otherwise.

You can't be serious,please answer me on that:

-so what about Limbo? He can lock down some maps,

-so what about Vauban? He can lock down some maps

and both as effectively as Gara, maybe more...

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21 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

First, the ability will no longer be affected by Duration. Its longevity will be determined solely by its health, or whether or not the player decides to break it with Shattered Lash. We are also reviewing the wall health values incase further changes are needed. Second, when each section of the wall breaks, it will deal AoE damage that will scale with ability Strength Mods

Well that's still a downgrade in my opinion, even if you review the health values it will ALWAYS have a finite cap to it's values meaning it will get killed off at a certain point no matter what we do....because it scales off of mods.  The existing design for gara's 4 made her viable in high level content, this change will remove that viability. 

Quote

As always, we want our community to remain engaged in the way we make adjustments to our Warframes, especially once they actually get their hands on them. In Gara’s case we just didn’t feel it was appropriate to her kit to be able to lock down some maps indefinitely or otherwise. Power design is a reciprocal process and we simply can’t account for every possible combination of mods, situational use, and play styles in our designs, that is why we are so fortunate to have a dedicated and cooperative community to offer feedback to collaborate with. Once these changes go live, have at ‘em and bring us your thoughts. 

Yet you keep ignoring plenty of frames we have issues with (limbo stasis stopping bullets, ash rework in general, mag rework in general, let alone ember wof etc) and basically are nerfing the one part of gara that many of us posting here had no issue with all while ignoring the bit we do have an issue with, ie her 3.  Not to mention there are plenty of other frames that can do exactly the same as gara's 4 in terms of locking down a map...

And lol at the bold bit, you're still basically ignoring the fact a lot of us don't like the changes and still going ahead with the changes. 

It's starting to feel like you don't want us to use frames that we actually enjoy using... the recent changes really do seem to missing out on that aspect, we want to have fun in the game and changes like this take away the fun we can have with frames.

Quote

Bonus Info: We also have some exciting adjustments to our recent Volt changes. As you may recall, we were still actively reviewing the Damage aspect since the day we made the change (Prime Time with Steve explained this!)We have decided to remove the damage cap and raise the damage per second of Discharge, improve its synergy with Shock and we are also halving the energy costs of carrying around Electric Shields. Volt should now be given a bit more protected movement (albeit it with some energy cost), as well as just simply deal more damage overall! 

So now its trying to divert the topic onto another frame rather than taking notice of a large majority of us saying gara's changes are a bad idea...or that's how that bit seems to me.

 

Also still no response to my question about compensation for wasted forma seeing as it's no longer going to be built the same way. 

Edited by LSG501
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Just now, Veisper said:

This is in fact an other problem because we still need duration for the 2.

Yep it counters his 2 for building more STR. I'd rather stay duration build than building more STR, who wants the dmg from shattered glass when you can shoot them from far, it only useful for melee enemies but not in PoE since most melee can bypass the wall.

welp, I can still play her for her 2, and only use the MV refresh the timer of Splinter Storm

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Multiple frames can lock down an entire play area with ease.  This all the way!!!  Those are all my mains!  Frost and Rhino can do the same with their 4 ability long duration build. 

Just now, Veisper said:

You can't be serious,please answer me on that:

-so what about Limbo? He can lock down some maps,

-so what about Vauban? He can lock down some maps

and both as effectively as Gara, maybe more...

 

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but the funny thing is, I can't think of another frame that has abilities that just flow so well together. maybe saryn considering all the different things you can do with her abilities but that's it. I am interested to see how much damage the segments of gara's walls can do once they are busted. though I know its going to be about the same damage mirage's sleight of hands can do. so-- its interesting what they just put out and I kinda wanna see it but at the same time without duration you can't make your wall wider (I'm assuming) and judging from frost's wall, it probably won't be strong enough to survive a bombard rocket let alone a napalm blast. so either this will break her synergy and usefulness or even worse make her not even worthe playing in a defense mission unless you're there to spam your 2 on everyone.

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il y a 5 minutes, kiritochan18 a dit :

welp, I can still play her for her 2, and only use the MV refresh the timer of Splinter Storm

If that's what the frame is reduced to.... stacking damage on splinter and going in melee range to deal it.

Even if you build her for that she still can't compete with any any of the damage dealing frames who scale better or deal it from range. 

Note: funny how we are reduced to force her to damage while she's clearly not meant for that but this is what  this nerf does. 

Edited by SSI_Seraph

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21 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Bonus Info: We also have some exciting adjustments to our recent Volt changes. As you may recall, we were still actively reviewing the Damage aspect since the day we made the change (Prime Time with Steve explained this!)We have decided to remove the damage cap and raise the damage per second of Discharge, improve its synergy with Shock and we are also halving the energy costs of carrying around Electric Shields. Volt should now be given a bit more protected movement (albeit it with some energy cost), as well as just simply deal more damage overall! 

I am really not on board with the Discharge change but I like seeing the rationale behind these decisions.

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Why not just allow enemies to pass through, but have the molten glass effect applied on them as they do so? Make it slower acting than the initial cast application. That would allow enemies to potentially get in to an area while keeping it defensively viable.

The fact that the team isn't even considering giving it scaling health is worrying.

Why not fix her useless 3?

Edited by Glitchesarecool

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I've thought of synergy between mass vitrify and garas mirrors u might find useful. The propostion would be when you cast mirrors while the wall is active the mirrors instead of creating circle would circle around the mass vitrifys wall, if one mirror would encounter hole in the this wall it qould break apart and restore this part of the wall. Other way mirrors would work as they do right now

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Why is everyone saying this one completely reasonable change will make Gara useless? Have you even tried Gara? What about:

1) Being able to choose the size of the wall

2) Fully immobilizing enemies inside the wall, not just slowing down some of them, without an augment

3) The option to blow up the wall at any time to deal pretty large AoE damage in a big radius

4) Are people forgetting you can just RECAST THE FREAKIN WALL WHEN IT BREAKS??

5) Giving allies 90% damage reduction

6) A cheap, quick-casting 1 that does pretty respectable damage to a large half-circle in front of Gara

And all of that is worthless because Gara's wall isn't invincible anymore? Get over yourselves. Hours after this is announced I get called a white-knight and a SJW for saying this isn't the end of the world for Gara... I hate people.

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21 hours ago, BETAOPTICS said:

Will you be giving her additional armor buff because currently it is counter-intuitive to add armor since it won't add much to her survival-ability. Nothing huge of course, but I would want to see a reason to have armor mods on her. Otherwise I can't blame you for having a health attached to the ability because it makes other abilities with clear trade-offs worse than Gara's that barely had any meaningful ones in most content.

This.

This is extremely important now. She needs an armor buff to have synergy with her own Ult.

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il y a 12 minutes, AzureFlash a dit :

Why is everyone saying this one completely reasonable change will make Gara useless? Have you even tried Gara? What about:

1) Being able to choose the size of the wall

2) Fully immobilizing enemies inside the wall, not just slowing down some of them, without an augment

3) The option to blow up the wall at any time to deal pretty large AoE damage in a big radius

4) Are people forgetting you can just RECAST THE FREAKIN WALL WHEN IT BREAKS??

5) Giving allies 90% damage reduction

6) A cheap, quick-casting 1 that does pretty respectable damage to a large half-circle in front of Gara

And all of that is worthless because Gara's wall isn't invincible anymore? Get over yourselves. Hours after this is announced I get called a white-knight and a SJW for saying this isn't the end of the world for Gara... I hate people.

1) you need to bulletjump or get into a heigher ground to "choose", arguably more setup than a frost when obviously you always want the max height to cover the pod

2) and preventing them from getting status procced at the same time, making anything above sortie level harder to kill if you didn't apply the status effects on all of them before vitrifying

3) There is a point where that damage will thickle the enemies and frost can do the same too from outside with his 1 or push them back into a wall for massive finnisher damage

4) and your team and the pod are effectively vulnerable while you do that and "choose" the height.

5) they don't need 90% DR if they are inside old gara's 4 or a 3sec frost globe spam and that same 90% DR won't save you in endurance runs.

6) this one is nice but so is frost 1,2 and 4 while her spectral rage can't even fonction past level 60 since it gets instantly destroyed.

7) her ult is weaker than frost's 3 and she basicly has 3 skills since spetral rage is complete garbage above 60 and I'm generous on the level

so yes we do care and don't want her to take the shelf until her prime,that's why we are here.

Edited by SSI_Seraph
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3 minutes ago, SSI_Seraph said:

If that's what the frame is reduced to.... stacking damage on splinter and going in melee range to deal it.

Even if you build her for that she still can't compete with any any of the damage dealing frames who scale better or deal it from range. 

I'm not using her or her 2 and 4 to deal dmg to enemies, I'm relying for her tanky-ness and survivability and the ability to be a very good defensive frame, but not anymore or being less with this upcoming nerf/changes.

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1 minute ago, AzureFlash said:

Why is everyone saying this one completely reasonable change will make Gara useless? Have you even tried Gara? What about:

1) Being able to choose the size of the wall

2) Fully immobilizing enemies inside the wall, not just slowing down some of them, without an augment

3) The option to blow up the wall at any time to deal pretty large AoE damage in a big radius

4) Are people forgetting you can just RECAST THE FREAKIN WALL WHEN IT BREAKS??

5) Giving allies 90% damage reduction

6) A cheap, quick-casting 1 that does pretty respectable damage to a large half-circle in front of Gara

And all of that is worthless because Gara's wall isn't invincible anymore? Get over yourselves. Hours after this is announced I get called a white-knight and a SJW for saying this isn't the end of the world for Gara... I hate people.

just got off warframe to enjoy gara one last time and I'm literally a bit over halfway to maining her on my profile. considering I bought her maybe not even 30 minutes after poe first launched -- yeah I've been playing her ALOT. so to respond to this,

1) you have to bullet jump straight up and use her 4 while aim gliding to "choose the size of the wall" -- if a segment is broken its not going to break a small little box shaped hole of where the enemy was shooting, its taking out that entire segment.

2) yeah you can deal aoe damage in a radius, but guess what now her wall will be health based and guess what I'm willing to bet that the amount of health left on the wall is what is going to be dealt in that aoe damage. and if you're using splinter storm 50% of the total health of the glass wall damage will go to your splinter storm. now the issue with this is, it's health based...how will it survive 10 minutes in MOT? let alone 30 or 60 minutes.

3) yeah you can recast it, but then you'll have to rebuild your gara to focus on efficiency instead of duration and strength. but now you have to focus on strength and atleast maintain 100% duration. and lets not forget range because of her 1. at anyrate -- you can recast it but its ofcouse going to cost energy, guess what no one has a truly infinite amount of in this game? even our current zenurik can't patch that up unless you're willing to do 9 years of active focus farming right off the bat.

4) her 1 does do decent damage, depending on if you've built your melee weapon good or not. though it doesn't have good range whether or not you hold it down. what ever happened to the "charging to make the glass spear longer to pierce more enemies" idea that they showcased at tennocon? will that become an augment ability for her or not? at anyrate her 1 is current unreliable in everything other than being up close to the enemies or breaking your glass wall.

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21 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Bonus Info: We also have some exciting adjustments to our recent Volt changes. As you may recall, we were still actively reviewing the Damage aspect since the day we made the change (Prime Time with Steve explained this!)We have decided to remove the damage cap and raise the damage per second of Discharge, improve its synergy with Shock and we are also halving the energy costs of carrying around Electric Shields. Volt should now be given a bit more protected movement (albeit it with some energy cost), as well as just simply deal more damage overall! 

Bravo! Thank you. 

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10 minutes ago, AzureFlash said:

Why is everyone saying this one completely reasonable change will make Gara useless? Have you even tried Gara? What about:

1) Being able to choose the size of the wall

2) Fully immobilizing enemies inside the wall, not just slowing down some of them, without an augment

3) The option to blow up the wall at any time to deal pretty large AoE damage in a big radius

4) Are people forgetting you can just RECAST THE FREAKIN WALL WHEN IT BREAKS??

5) Giving allies 90% damage reduction

6) A cheap, quick-casting 1 that does pretty respectable damage to a large half-circle in front of Gara

And all of that is worthless because Gara's wall isn't invincible anymore? Get over yourselves. Hours after this is announced I get called a white-knight and a SJW for saying this isn't the end of the world for Gara... I hate people.

It's literally the one thing that makes her special. The wall is already a worse alternative to Frost, and other frames can do the things you listed more efficiently.

 

Ruin Mass Vitrify and she's just another frame with a terrible name with clunky mechanics that doesn't have a payoff worth using her for.

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43 minutes ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Hey all, I have edited the main post with some new information. :) Thanks for your feedback Tenno!

thanks ...slightly glad to hear of these changes to volt,

25 minutes ago, RedToothKaki said:

though equinox doesn't have good damage on his/her 4th ability in high levels...

thus why most higher missions you build for range as the multiplier of 4 recast dosnt alter even if no power strength 

also equinox was confirmed as female in all forms 

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