PSA: [PC] Upcoming Changes to Gara's "Mass Vitrify" (Bonus Volt Info)

[Cincirion]

I don't get it, was this because Gara threaten Frost dominion over defensive frames? What gives?

Why not instead of crippling the poor newbie frame, you work on keeping the enemy guns from clipping into the wall and enemies leaking in.

[Xzorn]

Here's an idea. What if...

Mass Vitrify and Snow Globe's base Health scales off map level similar to Specters.

• This base health is then increased further by a multiplier from Power Strength.
• Snow Globe retains it's 4 second Invulnerability phase but the incoming damage is also improve via Power Strength.
• This heavily reduces the need for Frost to spam his Snow Globe outside heavy onslaught conditions. aka Frost gets to play the game.
• Both frames remain a solid Defense pick with Frost focused more on Protection + CC and Gara Protection + Damage. Both dabble in other roles.
• At all times both Shields require attention by the player and the breaking function of Vitrify also continues to function as that seems to be a thing DE wants.

It Scales, It requires attention at any level range and it remains secure when applied properly.

Frost will still have a more secure shield than Gara but hell it's better than the proposed changes for both frames.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

These changes make make much happier!

[TmzOS]

A small idea for the problem of scaling:

In endless missions, each 5 waves will increase the skill power of defensive abilities by a certain %:

Iron Skin
Snow Globe
Mass Vitrify (nerfed)
Tectonics
[...]

// Gara's skill 2 is hardcapped with 130% power.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

4 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Here's an idea. What if...

Mass Vitrify and Snow Globe's base Health scales off map level similar to Specters.

• This base health is then increased further by a multiplier from Power Strength.
• Snow Globe retains it's 4 second Invulnerability phase but the incoming damage is also improve via Power Strength.
• This heavily reduces the need for Frost to spam his Snow Globe outside heavy onslaught conditions. aka Frost gets to play the game.
• Both frames remain a solid Defense pick with Frost focused more on Protection + CC and Gara Protection + Damage. Both dabble in other roles.
• At all times both Shields require attention by the player and the breaking function of Vitrify also continues to function as that seems to be a thing DE wants.

It Scales, It requires attention at any level range and it remains secure when applied properly.

Frost will still have a more secure shield than Gara but hell it's better than the proposed changes for both frames.

This would be a good start. The only issue is that some of the frames will need a similar overhaul to some of their abilities to be more useful end game.

[Myrkek]

This is not the nerf I was expecting for Gara, but I can work with this.

My main concern, though, is the health of the wall. If you're making it like snowglobe it needs a way to stack health. The only reason snowglobe is viable past... let's say mars, is because Frost can recast it to add health, a single casting is completely worthless. With the changes as they stand, I can maybe see using her 4 in a range build to cc enemies, but I doubt I'd continue using her in any sort of defensive capacity. That makes me kind of sad, because I liked being able to switch between defense and "stacking so much damage on her 2 that everything I run past dies instantly", but I do enjoy the auto-murder, so I'll probably be sticking with that from now on.

 

Edit: Unless we can recast to have multiple concentric walls around a target, that might be interesting.

[LuminousShot]

Just throwing this idea into the thread, sorry if someone had a similar one on the previous 22 pages.

Wouldn't it be nice if Mass Vitrify was spinning just like Spectrorage, so the damage would be a bit more spread across the whole thing?

[Soulstuff]

Gara damage reduction from her 2 and quite lovely AoE you shall not pass glass wall are her best abilities.

 

But stepping into stupid high level content DE said wont touch for now (aka anything past lvl 100 sortie) her 2 drops out because even with that damage reduction you will be one shot at some point...

 

Ive been noticing this for some time now DE likes to nerf warframes because they are too good, yet cant even look at enemies they are putting into the game.

For example im sick and tired or Grineer Bombards / Napalms shooting under their legs for no self damage at all while completely smiting any unlucky tenno that was trying to melee them, yet when i take out my Ogris with Nightwatch Napalm and shoot little bit too close i am blasted to pieces all over the map just because i was 0.00000001m too close the explosion...

 

So why cant we have a open top glass wall that is completely immune to damage?

You keep adding insta-gib enemies while nerfing warframes / focus (in this case shadow step (#RIP #NeverForget2017) that are countering all that (upcoming ghoul units will definitely be able to insta-gib you with all those long range dashes and our most beloved Scorch getting 2.0 version that will roast you to death even faster to crispy perfection thanks to extra flamethrower...)

But a damn Immune to damage, long to cast and limited duration/ location ability is too much?

 

I barely use Gara already because she is booring as hell, but i guess after the changes and me giving a try after them i speculate that she will join "Dust Club" right besides "one trick magic pones" Excalibur (Teemo equivalent of Warframe), Loki ( Ivara the master race) and Wukong ( beating things with oversized stick gets booring).

 

Also Volt really needs to loose that energy leech over distance while holding hes shield, it would be better to leech the % of remaining duration while moving instead... Some sonic builds chew that one of largest energy pools ingame quite quick

[SilentClockwork]

Im ok with these changes

[Robbery525]

@[DE]Aidan @[DE]Rebecca

several visual feedback requests to be implemented with the changes to MV. 

I like the suggested changes (after the update), but have some concerns on player feedback.

1) Can we have an indicator on the wall that displays each segment? Maybe a pillar or something between each segment so we can tell where they start and end. 

2) Can there be some sort of indicator on the damage received by each segment so we know it has close to low health? Maybe have puncture holes (like the generic windshield hit with a golf ball look), or a puncture design, where it gets some holes in it that look as if something punctured metal. (I know it’s glass, but itd be nice visual feedback). 

3) now that enemies can destroy segments individually, can gara’s 1 do that as well? That way she can create a doorway without hindering the rest of the ability. She could cast 1 right before they break it down, without destroying the still intact sections.  Obviously the amount of power boost her 2 gains from each segment will have to be looked at with this change, but I think it would provide nice gameplay. 

 

And lastly, a few questions: will it always be a specific range now, or still hold-to-expand as it currently is? Will increased range mean more sections (similar to how her mirror works)?

 

edit: her 4 is also inconsistent if it refreshed her 2 or not from my experience. Host or client doesn’t matter, if there is less than 10s left to her 2, there seems to be about a 75% chance of 4 actually causing the refresh. That drops to about 50% of you are airborne. 

[Xzorn]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

This would be a good start. The only issue is that some of the frames will need a similar overhaul to some of their abilities to be more useful end game.

 

Only the summoned Protective objects should need this type of scaling.

Things like Iron Skin have mobility to work with which can go a very long way when CC gets involved.

Stationary Objects benefit far less from CC, esp large ones like these. AoE or stray shots aren't going to miss them.

When a frame like Chroma buffed by Gara, Trinity, Eclipse breaks into the millions of eHP these Protective Objects are a joke by comparison.

[FabioGOD]

If Mass vitrify is going to be like frost snow globe thats *, i love with duration instead of a health resistance habilitie like snow globe, that probably means that a lot of people will need to change the builds so it can be ajusted for mass vitrify, like adding more str mods, armor mods so it can resist high lvl enemies, and that for me is *, duration its so good and easy, you dont have to worry like you need for frost snow globe, also why guys? i mean every time that you guys launch something it needs to get a nerf? (sometimes), i mean, cant you guys just test before launching the update, for a lot of things got nerfed because they were insane and i kinda understand that, but pls give seriously tests before launching so people will not be disapointed, and yes i know that you guys give a look before launching the update with new stuff, im just saying all this because i rly rly like warframe, i play this game since 2015 and for me, without any questions, its an awesome game and i love it! ( also i´m sry about grammar errors etc etc, im portuguese lol), but anyway i want to see this new changes about gara´s ultimate habilitie and see what happens!!!

 

[(PSN)SoulSurfer0813]

First-time poster been playing for about a year and as a person who has been playing video games since the commador 64 I have to say Warframe is by far my favorite game. DE I think you all make a great product and I love that you have tried to make the game accessible to all while still keeping it interesting for the veteran player base. I choose to post now because I don't believe in making a complaint if I don't have a solution that I think is viable and I would like you to strongly consider my ideas related to Volt and Gara. 

 

On the topic of Volt, I look forward to these changes as volt is a frame I always want to play but his kit is lackluster at best. Though a fun frame after a certain point he no longer is a viable option. I would like to see his 4 work similarly to the way Inaros 4 works without the healing and maybe slightly higher damage output and no cap. A synergy with his 1 would also be very appreciated. I think that would make him more viable without breaking the game. 

 

On the topic of Gara, I think the changes are definitely necessary but are also very precarious because if you do not balance the health of her 4 then she can very easily become a frame not worth playing. Honestly, I would rather see a change to the way her 4 works where it remains as is but rather than hardening it stays in its molten form and blocks all projectiles and slows enemies that pass through it. then her 1 could harden and shatter it similarly to the way it works now. This would allow interaction with the environment while not locking any map down completely while still maintaining her viability. This would also allow her to continue to be viable at higher levels as you would not have to figure out a complicated formula for scaling health for her wall based on enemy level. 

[BladeRambler]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but enemies already can destroy/negate Gara's wall and its CC, namely the Nullifiers and Ancient Disruptors. This currently forces Gara players to keep this in mind since a massive range increases the chances the wall will contact one of these units before you even see them, letting enemies through as the wall collapses around the player. I know I've had to adjust my strategy in higher-level Infested, Corrupted, and Corpus missions accordingly.

However, I know the Grineer (DE's most favorite faction) do not posses such a utility enemy, so is this change only due to this one faction unable to fight the wall? If so, why not give them an enemy to do it and stop nerfing frames?

If this is due to Gara's near invincibility at lower levels (which have lower levels of Disruptors and Nullifiers), then how come I see an Ember running full speed to extraction while I try to keep up, shooting at already flamed/dead enemies? My wall is kinda useless anyway if all enemies die before I see them...

[firedocter]

Why not make it break after x number of hits instead of having health? then the damage it deals when breaking can be determined by the strength of the attacks that broke it. This would let it scale. 

[PoisonHD]

2 hours ago, Ventura_Highway said:

I am really not on board with the Discharge change but I like seeing the rationale behind these decisions.

Why? They just made the ability better.

[DeliciousDoob69]

I think the changes to Gara are totally warranted, good job DE. Anyone in their right mind could see that Vitrify was kinda broken and needed a little tweak. High five guys. I was also happy about the Volt tweaks, I think you guys got way to much negative feedback for some good changes IMO. Hot dang, you're just making him even more amazing though, I'll gladly take it. I love Volt and I love you guys (DE). If you kind folks get some time please look into Mirage before her prime is released, please. Anyone with some time please post any helpful comments on my post. 

NOTICE ME SENPAI! 

[(XBOX)N7 Tigger]

I notice you wait until everyone has dumped some forma into her before you nerf her. I guess now we can chose between being a worse Rhino or being a worse Frost. Well,at least I will be freeing up a warframe slot soon.

[motorfirebox]

23 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Hey Tenno,

Just wanted to drop in here and give a little update on some upcoming changes to Gara’s fourth ability: Mass Vitrify. Coming in the next update, this ability will no longer be invulnerable to damage. It will eventually break apart in sections when enough damage has been dealt to that specific section of the glass wall.

The wall’s health is determined by both your ability power strength and armor mods, just like Frost’s Snow Globe. This will give your enemies a few extra options for dealing with Mass Vitrify, leading to some more dynamic encounters when using the wall defensively. 

Please use this thread to discuss any questions or feedback. 

Thanks, Tenno!

EDIT:

After conveying some of the most common points of feedback from this post to the design team we have some adjustments to our changes to Gara’s Mass Vitrify! 

First, the ability will no longer be affected by Duration. Its longevity will be determined solely by its health, or whether or not the player decides to break it with Shattered Lash. We are also reviewing the wall health values incase further changes are needed. Second, when each section of the wall breaks, it will deal AoE damage that will scale with ability Strength Mods

As always, we want our community to remain engaged in the way we make adjustments to our Warframes, especially once they actually get their hands on them. In Gara’s case we just didn’t feel it was appropriate to her kit to be able to lock down some maps indefinitely or otherwise. Power design is a reciprocal process and we simply can’t account for every possible combination of mods, situational use, and play styles in our designs, that is why we are so fortunate to have a dedicated and cooperative community to offer feedback to collaborate with. Once these changes go live, have at ‘em and bring us your thoughts. 

Bonus Info: We also have some exciting adjustments to our recent Volt changes. As you may recall, we were still actively reviewing the Damage aspect since the day we made the change (Prime Time with Steve explained this!)We have decided to remove the damage cap and raise the damage per second of Discharge, improve its synergy with Shock and we are also halving the energy costs of carrying around Electric Shields. Volt should now be given a bit more protected movement (albeit it with some energy cost), as well as just simply deal more damage overall! 

Stop. My Shattered Lash can only get so hard.

[Ventura_Highway]

10 minutes ago, PoisonHD said:

Why? They just made the ability better.

Don't really use Volt for direct damage and I think hard cc is boring.

[DrNever]

Well, if the ability will still be duration based, this is going to make it basically useless. Seriously, it will just be a weaker version of snowglobe with a painfully long cast time...we just can't have beautiful things.

[PoisonHD]

1 minute ago, Ventura_Highway said:

Don't really use Volt for direct damage and I think hard cc is boring.

So you'd rather have a terrible ability that lasts all of 5 seconds on everything but grineer?

Just mod for lower duration if you don't like hard CC, removing the damage cap is one of the best changes volt players can hope for.

[Ventura_Highway]

3 minutes ago, PoisonHD said:

So you'd rather have a terrible ability that lasts all of 5 seconds on everything but grineer?

Just mod for lower duration if you don't like hard CC, removing the damage cap is one of the best changes volt players can hope for.

Yeah totally. I also like having my toenails yanked off on a regular basis.

[kyori]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

I don't know quite how she works in PC, but on PS4 Gara is invulnerable while expanding the vitrify wall.

I wrote that because as with many people, I was mislead into reading that the start up phase has no more invulnerability.

[Robbery525]

6 minutes ago, kyori said:

I wrote that because as with many people, I was mislead into reading that the start up phase has no more invulnerability.

Which is their plan