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PSA: [PC] Upcoming Changes to Gara's "Mass Vitrify" (Bonus Volt Info)


aidan890

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1 hour ago, Frankdark said:

The same goes for Level 200-500 Enemy`s.
If you can take a warframe there you should think, maybee there is something fishy.
@Xzorn

I realy like invisibility! But i have to say Onestly i think it´s overpowerd and need a rework too.
It´s way to Powerful.
If a ability let´s you stay alive easy in Level 100+ Envirorment it needs a rework.
And thats including my beloved mesa also.

 

The bar hasn't been lvl 100 in years man. The Bar is closer to lvl 300-400 and Power Creep will keep pushing it further.

I've done lvl 300+ Solo with majority of frames in the game while Lvl 1,000 is the bar for groups and Invisible frames.

DE can keep pretending lvl 100 is the standard and players will keep complaining about a lack of challenging content.  Our damage output is grossly out of proportion to our survival while the eHP gap between frames is even worse. They can't balance this mess with a few nerfs.

The entire system needs an overhaul or they need to get on the scaling bus. I see no other options to preserve the life of this game.

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23 hours ago, Phatose said:

If it's health based, it shouldn't have a duration limit.  And something needs to be done about the crazy long casting time, and should probably have more health then snow globe.

Otherwise, it's simply a terrible ability.  It's her ultimate, yet it has duration limit, health limit, and is open to attacks from above, and immobilizes you for quite some time when being cast. 

How, exactly, is Gara's 4 going to be better then Frost's 3?

 

Edit: Oops, 3, not 2.

A cool compromise would be a unique "glass detonation" mechanic that has a 100% status slash/Blast Proc combination once health reaches zero...knockdown with bleedout.

...I guess it would make for a nice Augment for her, but to have it inherent in the ability would be fitting with her theme.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

A cool compromise would be a unique "glass detonation" mechanic that has a 100% status slash/Blast Proc combination once health reaches zero...knockdown with bleedout.

...I guess it would make for a nice Augment for her, but to have it inherent in the ability would be fitting with her theme.

Very much so. Kudos to you my friend.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

A cool compromise would be a unique "glass detonation" mechanic that has a 100% status slash/Blast Proc combination once health reaches zero...knockdown with bleedout.

...I guess it would make for a nice Augment for her, but to have it inherent in the ability would be fitting with her theme.

Even with glass detonation the fact that Enemies can shatter pieces of her MV makes it utterly useless and unreliable. A 100% bleed proc would just be a bandage to what they're doing to her 4

 

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2 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

Even with glass detonation the fact that Enemies can shatter pieces of her MV makes it utterly useless and unreliable. A 100% bleed proc would just be a bandage to what they're doing to her 4

 

Unfortunately it was not all that useful to begin with. Only vitrified enemies caught in the initial expansion, in addition to preventing enemies from getting through it if they were on the same level. They can still get in if they go over or under it.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

Unfortunately it was not all that useful to begin with. Only vitrified enemies caught in the initial expansion, in addition to preventing enemies from getting through it if they were on the same level. They can still get in if they go over or under it.

It was useful in some ways, it was a good alternative to Frost if you can deal with the long cast time, high energy cost and the fact that it was duration based, and also the weaknesses you pointed out (except under)  made it not so overpowered as many players seem to think. This just effectively made Gara have 2/4 good abilities as her 3 isn't really all that reliable due to reasons and now her 4 is being butchered literally. And there are people who just agree with whatever changes DE make like "this nerf was warranted"

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Firstly, thank you DE for listening to the community. Secondly, too bad Gara still needs more look into. Her MV will still be useless, worse frost bubble UNLESS her MV gets massive HP pool that won't require player to sacrifice mod slots for hp, armor and power that Gara builds DO NOT use for a reason. Gara's 2 is already capped. Building more power will be seen as useless. Keep the duration MV but make other changes. Allow enemies to go through but not shoot and when they enter they won't get effected by "freeze" effect. It will still make MV great defensive ability that won't shut down enemies completely. Or give MV 4 seconds where it absorbs dmg to become harder to kill. Still first option seems to be better because we will have 2 distinguish defensive frames, not 2 frames that are similar. 

You listened once (or twice, depend if we count Volt changes) so please, listen again to the community. 

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5 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

It was useful in some ways, it was a good alternative to Frost if you can deal with the long cast time, high energy cost and the fact that it was duration based, and also the weaknesses you pointed out (except under)  made it not so overpowered as many players seem to think. This just effectively made Gara have 2/4 good abilities as her 3 isn't really all that reliable due to reasons and now her 4 is being butchered literally. And there are people who just agree with whatever changes DE make like "this nerf was warranted"

Agreed entirely there. I have only had a little over a day to test her due to College and sharing the tv with my siblings (parents ps4 is in the living room), so I had no clue what the best stuff for her were. She still is a fun frame to play though. This nerf really disappoints me tbh

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I would like to ask @[DE]Aidan, if enemies will retroactively attack the walls if Gara or anyone is out of range. Imagine like if Gara casts Mass Vitrify in a narrow choke that turns to a corner, usually enemies will tend to shoot if they have a line of sight of a Warframe but in such case, they'll just try to run through it. Would this be a problem?

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Also, DE said they don't want Gara to be able to lock areas down. I think they forgot about the other frames that CAN CURRENTLY do that. Limbo with Cataclysm, Vauban with bastille, Frost(!) with 4 bubbles, Banshee with her 4. Hek, even Rhino with his 4 can lockdown the area both horizontally and vertically. Octavia can also do that in a way. Even Ember with her 4 can lockdown area and go afk.  Why is Gara getting "looked at" while there were already frames capable of locking down areas much better or in equal level. 

Some players noticed that most of defensive ways for players that makes them harder to kill gets nerfed while offensive ways are not touched. If defensive ways are problematic, why not look at offensive capabilities of enemies? Why not allow infested to jump over the way? Why not give enemies more grenades and better AI? 

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3 hours ago, LEGION346 said:

Also, DE said they don't want Gara to be able to lock areas down. I think they forgot about the other frames that CAN CURRENTLY do that. Limbo with Cataclysm, Vauban with bastille, Frost(!) with 4 bubbles, Banshee with her 4. Hek, even Rhino with his 4 can lockdown the area both horizontally and vertically. Octavia can also do that in a way. Even Ember with her 4 can lockdown area and go afk.  Why is Gara getting "looked at" while there were already frames capable of locking down areas much better or in equal level. 

Some players noticed that most of defensive ways for players that makes them harder to kill gets nerfed while offensive ways are not touched. If defensive ways are problematic, why not look at offensive capabilities of enemies? Why not allow infested to jump over the way? Why not give enemies more grenades and better AI? 

Shhh the players gotta be nerfed while the enemies get buffed. 

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The update on Gara and Volt are appreciated, though we aren't out of the woods yet.

I still think spectrorage could be look at so that it's brought up a bit more to the level of effectiveness that her other powers have. If the MV is going to get changed to health base, then perhaps allow spectrorage to help counter that in some way with a synergy (like the idea I had in my last post perhaps hmmmm? :3)

On the topic of Volt, the removal of the damage cap is great, though the problem with his mobile shield remains. Personally my problem with it is with how it slows you down when picked up, and I do understand that the drain per meter allows it to still regen energy, but maybe these could be traded off? I would much rather have the channeled drain then per meter in exchange for normal movement speed, as it counters with... well, speed.

I hope you guys continue to look at our feedback and thank you if you do.

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21 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

I think you messed with the grammar there. Frost has way more CC than Gara after this change, and globe is a straight upgrade that costs less energy. This whole change will turn Gara into the Titania of team utility.

Cept gara still has more damage and far more tankiness AND vitrify is still superior to snowglobe.

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maybe change it to not blocking bullets at all but badly reducing the damage they do 75% while also increasing the mis chance by giving every thing out side it lower accuraccy 50% '' light refraction'' that coupled with her splinter storm would scale well whilst not locking down the map. hell leave it molten for its duration so mellee enemies are slowed and vitrified as they enter but can still enter. then solidify and smash it with 1st ability.

 

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Put me in the 'Not Happy' camp regarding Mass Vitrify's nerf, but I just realised something regarding the change from duration to HP-based life. Splinter Storm does not provide a timer on yourself. Since you can't refresh it on yourself until it expires or you use Mass Vitrify, if you ever cast it on an ally after yourself you have to remember yours will expire a few seconds earlier than the timer says, which is tracking the last application.

In the end I was casting Splinter Storm and leaving Mass Vitrify up as a personal timer if I buffed any allies. If duration is removed can a buff icon be added on our self much like allies? Maybe add a damage indicator while at it, to see how much damage you are dealing after stacking...

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1 wall should be stronger than 1 globe.

Globes have stacking mechanics, you can put like 20 of them down on the same spot and the hp stacks. To my knowledge the wall doesn't have that, has a setup time, and has a large area above and below you that is not covered at all.

Also as long as you can still shoot through the wall from the outside I don't care how weak it is, F*** frost, she's better now.

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3 hours ago, Spot. said:

Making posts going "Oh no looks like I have to trash Gara now xo" isn't good feedback guys, c'mon.

Except no one here is saying that gara is becoming trash, she still has a tanking/damage, and surprisingly there is more feedback on why this change won't work rather than a rant that DE is S#&$ at doing nerfs. No matter which way you slice it, the fact that it is a duration+health that scales with armor&damage mods already messes with the common builds with Gara and add to the fact that parts of her MV can be shattered individually makes the ability utterly useless and unreliable. You will have a better chance protecting an objective with Ember's/Mesa's 4 than having a wall that can be broken piece by piece considering the scaling of enemies and the number of enemies the game throws at you. 

So as someone said before all this post is telling us concerning Gara's MV is "Go back to Frost" 

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I'm personally fine with the changes (I just hope the base HP will be reasonable), but while we are at Volt topic...

@[DE]Aidan, can we also finally make the FoV increasement from Volt Speed optional? Many folks like this feature, many don't. Removing it would be too unfair, but making it optional just like 'screen shaking' or 'sniper scopes' would be an amazing QoL change.

I don't mind the speed buffs, it's the FoV change which makes me dizzy, especially when it happens every 10s so I have to spam backflips instead of playing the game.

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Changing it to be health based and have no affect from duration outside how long we can spend building the wall is going to make her new builds clunky and annoying.

We liked duration on her because it was useful for multiple abilities. In the case of her 4 it both increased the duration of the wall and allowed you to make a larger wall without having to rely exclusively on range. This will mean we may end up dropping to lower duration and have to re-buff her 2 more frequently, which will make maintaining it for damage a lot more annoying and make people even less inclined to try to keep it up on her teammates, which is already extremely obnoxious. It will also mean people who were using high range builds are going to have to reconsider since you just made power strength a lot more important and overextended gives a huge hit to power strength. 

So overextended is going to screw power strength. You lowered the value of duration, yet we may end up just having to stick to high duration if you want a larger wall since going for range messes up power strength, which we need more of now since the health of our wall depends on it... If we want more power strength we have to either mess up our duration or efficiency. I mean, it feels like you're just throwing in these quick changes without fully considering the ramifications on how she's built. This will lead to her feeling even more clunky to mod. 

If you're going to do this I would once again suggest you add a long-cast to her 2 that buffs all allies in affinity range, refreshing all existing buff durations. That way it won't be as annoying trying to keep her 2 up with lower durations. It will also mean you can leave your wall up if it survives longer instead of having to constantly re-cast it just to refresh buffs. If my wall is now health based and not duration based, what's the point if I have to re-cast it more frequently than I already was because my 2 durations are now shorter and I'm having to re-cast my wall just to rebuff my 2? You have to consider the ramifications on her cross-ability synergy when you throw in these random changes. Maybe also consider reducing the energy cost of making the walls?

I would also consider dropping duration from her 3 too for consistency sake. Just make that health based as well. The ability is already weak as it is, now we're going to be dropping duration since you're gutting its value (or we'll be giving up some of it to get more strength). Maybe buff the baseline duration of her 2 as well. 

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Dear Aidan,

Still missing the mark no matter how you turn it upside down and add some volt perks to deviate from the main issue...with the current state of scalability we have, it doesn't really matter that each piece of the wall deals dmg based on strenght mods or the Swift Hand of God himself cus not even far into sortie 3 most enemies will have a dmg reduction of 99.7/99.9% aka the shard could even deal 50.000 dmg that will turn into 50 lmfao.this is vs the armored units that count aka HG's, Napalms, Bombards and so forth, more or less the same result vs highly shielded enemies.

There'll never be a case where you face 1 enemy like in the simulacrum more likely a mini swarm of a dozen units dealing damage in the thousands either per hit or in bursts at certain levels, ( not even far from the 45 minute mark on a survival let alone MOT with the 300% dmg multipliers.. ) once again think outside of a sortie 2 or starchart ( sedna )

You don't want us to stack up health on the wall, fine, give it a 95% dmg reduction with a monster chunk of health, because unlike the exploitations of the 4 secs of invulnerability on the GLOBE, that wall won't last jack sh_it in semi high lvl content let alone higher...or let it inherit the base armor multiplied by a percentage in the THOUSANDS ( chroma style ) otherwise and it won't still be good anyway when you can just spam every 3 secs a globe and gain perma invulnerability no matter what , unless there's lanka shots flying around which are the only thing that can pierce through the globe and give us a reason to keep on our toes and prioritize those nulliefiers even more.The wall had its drawback that the top isn't covered and you could deploy only one and affected by duration,  the globe with the invulnerability time can last forever unless nullified by a bubble ( if the frost player know what to do and it's quite easy to know ), it has faster casting times and more in general a faster reaction time when needed...Lanka shots can pierce through it tho so it has it's own minor weakenss ( very minor  anyway )

It's already detrimental that vitrified enemies can't take status procs unless they're already affected by one, much like avalanche effect, in situations and runs where status is the break dealer and hitting on those frozen/vitrified enemies turns out to be more time consuming that if they could be affected by procs....but this is my personal opinion on the subject. The main issue remains and you're not considering an optimal solution...I enjoy long survival / def runs as well hence that's why i'm annoying like hell that those changes are just bad...plus when her 2 needs only 30% strenght to gain 90% dmg reduction, this is going to force more strenght mods in setups that were just fine, this is not an improvment it's a constriction and a limitation. Gara could make use of all of her abilities with simple & balanced modding , this is going to be a step back not forward.

Drop a snowglobe with the max power strenght you can add and all the armor u can get, just 1 in a sortie 3 def mission, see how long it lasts without the ability to stack health or using the 4 secs of invulnerability to boost its health.

here's the answer:  few seconds, and this is what it's going to happen with Gara's wall according to the changes that are in the air.

Spectrorage is an even easier example of how bad it's gonna be, seeing how the mirros can't last a nanosecond in most semi high lvl content and the damage return is mitigated to hard it's just hilarious, unless you guys start focusing on scaling abilities/dmg returns in the % and not based on flat stats that can be boosted to a joke lvl no matter what.

 

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