PSA: [PC] Upcoming Changes to Gara's "Mass Vitrify" (Bonus Volt Info)

[RedToothKaki]

3 hours ago, S.Faiz said:

You guys surely go to great  length every then and now to make players not to play your game.

is that... a female stalker with red nips as your profile pic?

[(PSN)KawaiiOctopi]

Starting to feel like we lost this one and now regretting spending money on her and time.....When other frames needed tlc and enemy damage scaling is ridiculous 

[LEGION346]

7 minutes ago, Borg1611 said:

Changing it to be health based and have no affect from duration outside how long we can spend building the wall is going to make her new builds clunky and annoying.

We liked duration on her because it was useful for multiple abilities. In the case of her 4 it both increased the duration of the wall and allowed you to make a larger wall without having to rely exclusively on range. This will mean we may end up dropping to lower duration and have to re-buff her 2 more frequently, which will make maintaining it for damage a lot more annoying and make people even less inclined to try to keep it up on her teammates, which is already extremely obnoxious. It will also mean people who were using high range builds are going to have to reconsider since you just made power strength a lot more important and overextended gives a huge hit to power strength. 

So overextended is going to screw power strength. You lowered the value of duration, yet we may end up just having to stick to high duration if you want a larger wall since going for range messes up power strength, which we need more of now since the health of our wall depends on it... If we want more power strength we have to either mess up our duration or efficiency. I mean, it feels like you're just throwing in these quick changes without fully considering the ramifications on how she's built. This will lead to her feeling even more clunky to mod. 

If you're going to do this I would once again suggest you add a long-cast to her 2 that buffs all allies in affinity range, refreshing all existing buff durations. That way it won't be as annoying trying to keep her 2 up with lower durations. It will also mean you can leave your wall up if it survives longer instead of having to constantly re-cast it just to refresh buffs. If my wall is now health based and not duration based, what's the point if I have to re-cast it more frequently than I already was because my 2 durations are now shorter and I'm having to re-cast my wall just to rebuff my 2? You have to consider the ramifications on her cross-ability synergy when you throw in these random changes. Maybe also consider reducing the energy cost of making the walls?

I would also consider dropping duration from her 3 too for consistency sake. Just make that health based as well. The ability is already weak as it is, now we're going to be dropping duration since you're gutting its value (or we'll be giving up some of it to get more strength). Maybe buff the baseline duration of her 2 as well. 

This. Changing MV will force Gara builds to become a counter productive mess. More range will mean weaker wall. More power will mean still weak wall since it will be so small it wont cover a lot and with holes in it, enemies will just go through. More duration means both your power and range are low rendering wall more useless. And with HP and Armor being forced upon players, all stats will suffer. 

Repeat. Gara's builds will become a mess and many players would probably give up on Gara just because making her work will require too much effort that may not even pay off

[LEGION346]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)VoodooRose78 said:

Starting to feel like we lost this one and now regretting spending money on her and time.....When other frames needed tlc and enemy damage scaling is ridiculous 

No. Don't say that. Until change is not live yet, players have still chance to reach DE and DE has chance to listen to players feedback. They listened when it comes to Volt. It showed thst community is listened. It gives us hope. 

[RedToothKaki]

I don't think anyone really wants gara's 4th ability to be changed even the slightest tbh. within 24 hours this post has gotten 24 pages of negativity. just call the nerf off DE please, like her ability literally needs no changes at all. she was perfect on release why ruin something that was released as a master tailored frame? 

[Spot.]

46 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

Except no one here is saying that gara is becoming trash, she still has a tanking/damage, and surprisingly there is more feedback on why this change won't work rather than a rant that DE is S#&$ at doing nerfs. No matter which way you slice it, the fact that it is a duration+health that scales with armor&damage mods already messes with the common builds with Gara and add to the fact that parts of her MV can be shattered individually makes the ability utterly useless and unreliable. You will have a better chance protecting an objective with Ember's/Mesa's 4 than having a wall that can be broken piece by piece considering the scaling of enemies and the number of enemies the game throws at you. 

So as someone said before all this post is telling us concerning Gara's MV is "Go back to Frost" 

Sorry, I suppose I was being a bit nit picky with that edit.

However, If I may correct a little: 

46 minutes ago, ShadowExodus said:

duration+health

It's only going to be health based now from what's been said on the updated post, and I wouldn't go as far to say it being totally useless.
Segments of the ring breaking will agreeably be an issue, unless of course either a way is added to perhaps repair the segment, or use an already existing power to counter the problem, like say for example placing mirrors where the broken segment is, or simply recasting the power.

Let's remember as well that MV will still have the positive aspects that snow globe lacks, one being that enemies can't go through it, and two that allies are able to shoot through both sides of it. Though I also agree MV could have stayed the way it was and would be just fine, but it seems the devs are intend on keeping it health based for now. At least the whole thing won't shatter if just one side is taking heavy damage, unlike snowglobe.

 

Spoiler

Please don't take the previous comment on my last post seriously and apologies to anyone who took offense to it. It's just a little poking at the exaggerated posts I'm so common to seeing when things like this are usually done to frames. Those type of post are probably few inbetween the actually good feedback comments many others have made here. It's just that sometimes the bad apples tend to become more noticeable than most due to how they stand out.

Spoiler

...But seriously though. I remember when Chroma came out and got the credit bug fixed for him, Literally one of the first posts was someone calling him useless now because of it.

[NebbyOtt]

Oh noooooooooooo ..... My worst nightmares have come to fruition.

Honestly, as triggered as i am, because this is going to really destroy Gara's playstyle. I'm going to sit back, relax, and have a little faith in the game devs for once.

Even though normally a nerf is a nerf, but this time your kind of shattering her playstyle which was keep up the timers or your screwed, and it's pretty hard to keep up the timers forever because of getting caught up in battle, and on top of that this made the game really easy for new players who could just wall themselves in if they were having trouble.

Gara was and hopefully still will be overpowered, but in a good way, it's good because she's designed for new players, if normal/vet players want to use her purely for functionality, and not just because its fun, then they're basically admitting defeat, that they need to pull out the "training wheels" so to speak that is gara's immense power. At the same time, she's fun if you just want to use her for fun, so while i'm terrified about these changes, and that your going to make her ult mega weak now, like a level 100 heavy gunner licks the wall and it shatters, i'm going to have faith that what your doing is good, for the time being, at least until i've extensively play tested.

Speaking of which, this change is going to make it SUPER important that you fix enemies making it through the wall if i drop it right as they're still passing through the wall, letting them in. They should be coated the second it touches them, because IRL they would have their foot stuck or something.

On 12/4/2017 at 12:55 PM, Omega-Shadowblade said:

Will the new mass vitrify also scale accordingly in the same manner as snow globe?

by this I mean the extra health gained in the “setup” phase from enemy attacks.

It can't be attacked while it's growing like that, but maybe a 2% percentage boost for all enemies coated in glass plus their level? so if the shield is going to have 100 health, and you capture 3 level 12 enemies, then it would have 142 health.

[Amontadillo]

5 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Hey all, I have edited the main post with some new information. :) Thanks for your feedback Tenno!

Thanks for listening to the feedback! While I am still unsure about the durability, at least the worst aspects of the initial design are gone. I'm happy to wait for the update and test it before judging it!

[-Temp0-]

19 часов назад, Glyphicall сказал:

"Only useful ability" lol.

Her 1 is crazy good CC and her 2 is literally Mesa's shatter shield but better.

All of that is "crazy good" only in Mercury. Stton of frames have damage reduction on-self abilities and only 3 are capable of stopping the enemy firing down on objective with one of them currently being godawful to play in the team with because he also stops you from firing as well.

So you guessed right., it's gonna be only Frost forever now till the end of the universe. 

[RedToothKaki]

13 minutes ago, -Temp0- said:

All of that is "crazy good" only in Mercury. Stton of frames have damage reduction on-self abilities and only 3 are capable of stopping the enemy firing down on objective with one of them currently being godawful to play in the team with because he also stops you from firing as well.

So you guessed right., it's gonna be only Frost forever now till the end of the universe. 

frost is love. frost is life

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

4 minutes ago, RedToothKaki said:

frost is love. frost is life

Yup. Oddly, he was my second frame yet I never knew about the four second absorption period.

[Guest]

What I'm wondering is how you plan to convey wall segment health to the player in the ui.  If a big wall has some 30 segments in it, that's gonna be a S#&$ show on your screen.

Without the capacity to gauge when your wall will start to break (assuming it's not "immediately"), the reliability of the skill for protecting stuff just goes right out the window.

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

Just now, TheDefenestrater said:

What I'm wondering is how you plan to convey wall segment health to the player in the ui.  If a big wall has some 30 segments in it, that's gonna be a S#&$ show on your screen.

Without the capacity to gauge when your wall will start to break (assuming it's not "immediately"), the reliability of the skill for protecting stuff just goes right out the window.

That is my biggest worry right now tbh. I WANT to like her, but Gara is just going to be useless for defending once this "fix" drops

[RedToothKaki]

I've been settling on the idea that if this goes through and its horrible i'll just uninstall warframe and reinstall riders of Icarus. the first thing some idiotic partnered gamer would say is "if you don't like it you don't have to play it" well I spent 40$ on gara for me and to get gara for my friend and she's apparently getting nerfed to an unusable stat. I don't like it so I don't have to play it or this game right? i'll then just come back maybe a year or 2 later see if focus is actually farmable and if they ever bothered to work on the storyline or give proper frames their rework and revisits  and etc. so that's that for me. i'll just passively keep up with this post in futile hopes that this nerf is decided to not go through with the next patch update.

[Mursen]

Hello, I don't know if it's too late or already said (24 pages??!!!) but I have some points about gara 4 (even though I am still farming it T_T)

1. First of all, frost snow globe can be boosted by globing inside the globe to gain health making the globe good enough against high level enemies, with this change gara 4 will be less than frost 3 unless you put nice multipliers to health or some other scaling that 4 seconds or while growing, because there would be a big moment when the glass is small enough to not stop all damage.

2. I will keep comparing to frost globe because they are nearly the same, in the UI you can see the % of health that the globe has. In case of the gara 4, we will use this indicator of exactly how long we have until we lose protection because of various panels. Some indicators of glass breaking would be not precise enough.

3. Now a constructive opinion. If you want to nerf this big construction that some do by bullet jumping, you can do it so by doing that this ability can NOT be done in the air. This way the ability still gets the weak point of air damage. 

4. More nerfing. Another nerfing could be that enemies could still go through or your own bullets cannot go through(like frost bubble). 

5. Also as of now, when you want to defend you can choose between life globe and duration ring, it's two different styles of guarding a position. Also because it is duration another weak point is when casting the ability you are also vulnerable and the defending point as said before. 

6. If you still want to go through, I want to offer some idea to make it more interesting that can nullify my first point and second may be. First of all, each pannel has tree lives( or shield gates). Every time a panel receive more damage there is a 1-second of invulnerability so that it can not be destroyed by one attack and it is not too long so it would be meaningful to pay attention. Each time a shield gate has passed a crack appears with a hole in the center. If you tap (no swing) your 1 from the inside it and hit that center of the crack the panels reappears itself to 3 lives again (if from outside you brake it like normal). It's like a little minigame to keep your wall up and defending the position. I think that this way it could be used at high level. 

 

I hope you think about these ideas and if I have any more Idea I may share it later.

[SimonParker]

Please don't do this to her.

 

people use gara's mass vitrify cause glass wall is invincible. it can hold as long as the duration.

after the change. the part which take most firepower will go down firstly, make the other part of glass wall meaningless, people have to recast for that specific wall.

I want to know, why tear the glass wall apart?

unlike frost's snow globe, it will go down entirely after lost all of its hp, and it can block firepower from all direction.

another example, Limbo

in another way, player in the Cataclsym range is invincible compare to the outside, and it is also block firepower from all direction.

these also means, in defense mission, Limbo and Frost is way more useful than Gara, especially in the plain.and Grineer's airstrike is not something you can just ignore.

you think Gara's glass wall is overpowered? cool.

make the player's bullet unpenetrable.

make the wall have a bullet limit.and the wall will go down after take too many bullet. but the bullet been taken will disappear after few seconds. 

make the wall just like Frost's snow globe. hp limit. recast for higher hp.

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

3 hours ago, RedToothKaki said:

I've been settling on the idea that if this goes through and its horrible i'll just uninstall warframe and reinstall riders of Icarus. the first thing some idiotic partnered gamer would say is "if you don't like it you don't have to play it" well I spent 40$ on gara for me and to get gara for my friend and she's apparently getting nerfed to an unusable stat. I don't like it so I don't have to play it or this game right? i'll then just come back maybe a year or 2 later see if focus is actually farmable and if they ever bothered to work on the storyline or give proper frames their rework and revisits  and etc. so that's that for me. i'll just passively keep up with this post in futile hopes that this nerf is decided to not go through with the next patch update.

Well she isn't utterly useless. Before she would be a viable alternative to limbo/frost for defense in either protecting her allies or defending an objective but now all she is gonna be is there for her ability to tank and dish damage. We already have enough frames that can be used offensively and now a viable defensive alternative to frost is just gonna be another alternative for tanks/damage.

[-DG-ShadowPrime]

3 hours ago, SimonParker said:

Please don't do this to her.

 

people use gara's mass vitrify cause glass wall is invincible. it can hold as long as the duration.

after the change. the part which take most firepower will go down firstly, make the other part of glass wall meaningless, people have to recast for that specific wall.

I want to know, why tear the glass wall apart?

unlike frost's snow globe, it will go down entirely after lost all of its hp, and it can block firepower from all direction.

another example, Limbo

in another way, player in the Cataclsym range is invincible compare to the outside, and it is also block firepower from all direction.

these also means, in defense mission, Limbo and Frost is way more useful than Gara, especially in the plain.and Grineer's airstrike is not something you can just ignore.

you think Gara's glass wall is overpowered? cool.

make the player's bullet unpenetrable.

make the wall have a bullet limit.and the wall will go down after take too many bullet. but the bullet been taken will disappear after few seconds. 

make the wall just like Frost's snow globe. hp limit. recast for higher hp.

a bullet limit is as bad as this "fix" with the amount of enemies warframe throws at you starting from mid level 

 

[VocalMagic]

1 hour ago, LEGION346 said:

No. Don't say that. Until change is not live yet, players have still chance to reach DE and DE has chance to listen to players feedback. They listened when it comes to Volt. It showed thst community is listened. It gives us hope. 

They "listened".
Just like a used car salesman "listens" to you after your first counter offer.
Me? I've already drawn up the divorce papers for my Gara

[LEGION346]

15 minutes ago, SimonParker said:

the part which take most firepower will go down firstly, make the other part of glass wall meaningless

This is something I don't think was mentioned in 24 pages of feedbaxk. Nice catch. 

Because of it, players are forced to recast already weak wall to make it "work" again, again and again. 1 nerf that may force many things and backfire surely.  It will be the same as in the definition of insanity. Do the same over and over again and expect different result.

In nearly 1 day community reached 24 pages of feedback, where majority of players disagree with the nerf and don't want and some even provided alternative ways of adjusting it. 

I am surprised a bit. 

[LEGION346]

2 minutes ago, VocalMagic said:

They "listened".
Just like a used car salesman "listens" to you after your first counter offer.
Me? I've already drawn up the divorce papers for my Gara

Hope dies last right? Let it live a little bit longer. Maybe, maybe hope won't die for nothing :P

[(PSN)Crixus044]

DE, may I say that these changes to gara sound a little forced? I know your team works harder than almost any gaming company to date, and turning knobs isn't really as easy as it looks. but considering all the effort that was put into making this frame, the quest line, the legendary update, risking the frame becoming fodder is a step backward and hurts her longevity.

Remember when you first released Gara? Mass Vitrify was a mess. Then you gave it downward verticality. What you forgot is how much verticality it was going to get. Now, you guys are thinking that it has too much protection, and I think that's because of one thing, Mid-Air Casts. Casting after a bullet jump can create a MASSIVE cylinder of protection that does, in fact, render frames like frost useless. This is why I know you are nerfing the ability, but health amount isn't the right call. Believe me. Gara is not a knock-off frost, she's her own thing.

I made a comment on a few youtuber videos like AGGP and Mogamu about this. If you really want to stop anything, prevent mid-air casts. That's all you will need. This way, she balances out frost because her horizontal protection would be superior, but she won't have the towering vertical protection that frost is renown for, YET you still get the downward protection for in the plains since it will still extend downwards. By doing this, instead of her replacing frost, they compliment each other, since gara gives frost an extra layer of protection from the horizontal enemies, while Frost gives protection from the vertical enemies AND AoE, since Gara does not stop AoE damage. Also, since enemy guns can poke through her wall, an enemy like a Heavy Gunner can stick their gun through the glass and ignore the wall completely, so that needs to be fixed. Just food for thought DE.

I've been playing this game for a long time. I've seen the titans of old that have since been nerfed, and I've seen Young Blood age and become history. From my experience and high-end level ,I know that we do not need another Snowglobe knockoff. If anything should prove that, Atlas should be the defining factor. Tectonic Fracture was his ability to create three walls and get 360 protection. It is almost never used, so please, don't throw Gara down that road.

[(PSN)Phreakydeke27]

I don’t usually buy frames but bought Gara for my PS4.  I could not get the freaking parts with a 7% drop rate.  Plus, the table is just like relics without being able to increase your chances.  Now you are gonna nerf her.  This is crazy.  The ability that was useful is now going to be crap.  Why even make frames op and release them just to nerf them?  DE you have to know how this frame works before you release it.  You have to have tested it fully.  Yet here we are again with another nerf.  A comment I read before makes sense.  Gara has been out a month and I’m guessing the money you were making has dropped off significantly.  So now time to make the frame useless.

 

Btw, the ability is not like Snow Globe.  As snow globe covers a certain a amount of area around and top from bottom when used.  Mass Vitrify doesn’t cover the top.  Enemies that get their gun through can kill you.  Napalm gets through.  In PoE this was useful now it’s not.  

 

Thanks again. 

[VocalMagic]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

I made a comment on a few youtuber videos like AGGP and Mogamu about this. If you really want to stop anything, prevent mid-air casts.

mantis medstation for tall wall now

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Phreakydeke27 said:

I don’t usually buy frames but bought Gara for my PS4.  I could not get the freaking parts with a 7% drop rate.  Plus, the table is just like relics without being able to increase your chances.  Now you are gonna nerf her.  This is crazy.  The ability that was useful is now going to be crap.  Why even make frames op and release them just to nerf them?  DE you have to know how this frame works before you release it.  You have to have tested it fully.  Yet here we are again with another nerf.  A comment I read before makes sense.  Gara has been out a month and I’m guessing the money you were making has dropped off significantly.  So now time to make the frame useless.

 

Btw, the ability is not like Snow Globe.  As snow globe covers a certain a amount of area around and top from bottom when used.  Mass Vitrify doesn’t cover the top.  Enemies that get their gun through can kill you.  Napalm gets through.  In PoE this was useful now it’s not.  

 

Thanks again. 

To be fair, they were hurting for time when they released PoE and Gara.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

3 minutes ago, VocalMagic said:

mantis medstation for tall wall now

Not exactly. The Med Tower is only 2-3m high, thus the wall would only be 6m high at most, which is still much shorter than snowglobe. So yes you are kind of correct, while using a med tower would be impractical for anything other than defense, it can boost the tower height just a little.