PSA: [PC] Upcoming Changes to Gara's "Mass Vitrify" (Bonus Volt Info)

[LEGION346]

I will repeat what was said many times here. They nerf Gara's wall because she can lockdown areas. We already had frames who could do that. 

Limbo with Cataclysm. 

Vauban with Bastille. 

Banshee with Quake. 

Frost with Bubble. 

Octavia with Mallet and 4 since enemies will prioritise them. 

Rhino with 4 and nearly perma knock. 

There probably can be more. 

[SSI_Seraph]

il y a 8 minutes, Aliant_PL a dit :

And ironically it's a buff for the frame, now you'll have to build Gara for max strength with decent efficiency and range. Just like frost.

you still need duration for the vitrification duration and her splinter storm, building her is probably a hot mess unless it's one of the old "boost 1 ability and give up on 3" designs that I thought we were over with by now with all the "synergy" in new releases. 

il y a 9 minutes, tnccs215 a dit :

Well, that's only true if Spectrorage actually gets buffed into being even vaguely relevant. 

Currently, it's not. It's lure radius and awfully weak health make it redundant to Mass Vitrify at best (that is, Spectrorage is an inferior version ofMass Vitrify, and not the other way around) , and useless at worst. 

Frankly, I think Spectrorage ought to have its lure radius and general health increased by a lot, in order to differentiate and maybe even synergize with Mass Vitrify. If Mass Vitrify serves as a prison, Spectrorage would exist so you can move enemies to where you want to imprison them. 

 

what's funny about spectorage is that nothing has been done about that thing while it can't even hold high end starchart level enemies in for 3sec in 2 months and still no word about it. She has 3 abilities and is getting the nerf hammer dropped on one of them while possibly weakning the others with weird new mod requirements. 

[(XBOX)Onawa Nootau]

6 minutes ago, LEGION346 said:

I will repeat what was said many times here. They nerf Gara's wall because she can lockdown areas. We already had frames who could do that. 

Limbo with Cataclysm. 

Vauban with Bastille. 

Banshee with Quake. 

Frost with Bubble. 

Octavia with Mallet and 4 since enemies will prioritise them. 

Rhino with 4 and nearly perma knock. 

There probably can be more. 

Mesa Peace maker, and shatter shield (Works most the time)

Ember WoF ( With augment and a good amount of range can knock enemies down a lot) 

Equinox with the 4th ability set to slash and high range and strength ( this is actually a little terrifying) 

Equinxx sleep build (Also scary)

Excal exalted blade (Can lock down areas with it going through walls and such. things die before knowing whats going on) 

Sayrn (Lets be honest shes brutal)

Mag (Derp)

Nova (Mainly slow, but speed can also just make everything go boom faster...)

 

I am sure there are more builds that shut whole maps down.

 

[Veisper]

This is a total mess to build her:

We need duration for 2 and 4, yes 4 because we still need it for the expension time and you will not put range because you need health and armor and power strengh and efficiency if you want her almost as usefull than before the changes...

[FloraGreen]

[DE]Aidan, now you guys just need to figure out that making Volts 4th ability expand like Novas 4th ability (scaling on duration), would be the easy way to actually make people think of Volt as actually having a remotely useful 4th ability.

As it stand right now Volt has 2 really good powers (2nd and 3rd power), which are the only powers you'll ever see a Volt use. This is due to you killing his range if you go for his most useful powers, making his 4th ability useless. You could go for his 4th ability, but that would just be a way worse stomp Rhino, so why would people use that.

Volts 4th ability needs to have the damage cap removed, (I would not even care if it had its damage removed all together), it will forever only be usefull as a CC tool, though a CC tool would fit in well with Volts theme and playstyle. It needs to scale on duration for its area of effect for it to see use in combination with volts other powers.

Fixing Volt would really be that easy.

[-CM-onlyAgamer]

DE you've made a frame that I love and it feels like you're taking away quite a lot of her team and objective defense capabilities, but I can understand, you want to bring her more in line with frost, currently she makes him rather useless, but going to this make Gara more useless in terms of Bubble vs Glass Wall, reasons I say this are as follows.

Frost bubble is a quick casted and easy to position and move ability, it has its 4 seconds of invun when first cast/recast and as most of us know can be recast up to 100k HP, it passively slows anyone who gets inside, an freeze them with the augment and such, so thats the benefits of that.

With the changes you want to make with Gara, its still a slower cast ability and can be a little awkward to use at times, the more i've used it the more im used to it, now the issues that worry me with the changes, breaking off into 4 pieces, I do like this idea, its pretty cool unless all the enemies are being funneled though an area making it pretty useless from all other sides giving you what would be 1/4 of its effectiveness, but what worries me is the amount of HP given, as we know frost shield with decent strength is around 10k and if you do high level stuff, that dies pretty quick, so assuming you give each side 10k, hard to tell until numbers are given, she'll quickly become useless at higher levels in terms of defending something.

I don't want my message to be seen as whining or complaining but more of a From someone whos played for a long time and loved Gara so far, please take your time and think of how it effects every angle.

I'll leave it with a possible idea, if you do with to continue with your spit into pies with HP idea, being able to put Garas 2 on her wall to add the damage reduction would be a great synergy, it would work with her idea of being able to cast and stack her abilities together, while having the cost of energy as the downside.
With that being said, it would allow Gara to stay competitive against Frost and his bubble without coping his HP stacking

Thanks

[LEGION346]

1 minute ago, Veisper said:

This is a total mess to build her:

We need duration for 2 and 4, yes 4 because we still need it for the expension time and you will not put range because you need health and armor and power strengh and efficiency if you want her almost as usefull than before the changes...

This. Atm Gara has strict builds. After the change, even without numbers known atm, players can see BIG problems with builds that may happen. 

[tnccs215]

7 minutes ago, SSI_Seraph said:

What's funny about spectorage is that nothing has been done about that thing while it can't even hold high end starchart level enemies in for 3sec in 2 months and still no word about it. She has 3 abilities and is getting the nerf hammer dropped on one of them while possibly weakning the others with weird new mod requirements. 

Yep, and that leaves me rather annoyed to be honest. 

DE seemed to be returning to a "balance by compensation" system, in which frames with stupidly powerful abilities had stupidly useless abilities to "compensate" (whether that was on purpose or out of faith is a matter worth discussing, yes, but ultimately irrelevant to the case in question). This system was lazy and a terrible waste of power potential, but at least it could be argued to vaguely make sense in balancing terms. 

Gara's main issue lied in that - she wasn't too powerful, she simply had an awful distribution of power effectiveness across the board. Even though I find the nerf to Mass Vitrify perfectly justified (I mean, seriously, the only thing preventing it from utterly wrecking Snow Globe is the fact enemies can bug into it), if it isn't accompanied by a buff to Spectrorage - in particular to its durability and lure range - than it'll do little to actually improve Gara. 

[Akimbo]

23 minutes ago, Aliant_PL said:

And ironically it's a buff for the frame, now you'll have to build Gara for max strength with decent efficiency and range. Just like frost.

No, people just won't bother playing her.

[Akimbo]

23 minutes ago, Veisper said:

no :

retconned their own comment already.

[Messkoo]

il y a une heure, Zeclem a dit :

let me know when snowglobe has the cc of vitrify. it can only compete when it has the augment. and invulnerability? unless i misread the whole changes thats simply not true. vitrify provides immunity and cc during cast, and its a lot longer in duration compared to what snowglobe does. and no im not going through 20+ pages.

Immunity for you alone, your allies and objectives are not protected during cast. And vitrify take time to stop enemies, they can still shoot you once or 2 when you stop casting, at High lvl it's death.

MF need change, but this change is not the good one for me. (for me a total change, not a wall)

[tnccs215]

18 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Onawa Nootau said:

Mesa Peace maker, and shatter shield (Works most the time)

Ember WoF ( With augment and a good amount of range can knock enemies down a lot) 

Equinox with the 4th ability set to slash and high range and strength ( this is actually a little terrifying) 

Equinxx sleep build (Also scary)

Excal exalted blade (Can lock down areas with it going through walls and such. things die before knowing whats going on) 

Sayrn (Lets be honest shes brutal)

Mag (Derp)

Nova (Mainly slow, but speed can also just make everything go boom faster...)

 

I am sure there are more builds that shut whole maps down.

 

Agreed. 

DE should balance them all. 

And I'm not even joking. This game clearly has no well defined line of expected frame effectiveness. They balance them as they go. They need to sit down, decide clearly and well where's the line separating what's acceptable and what's not, and retune all frames, weapons and enemies accordingly. 

[SSI_Seraph]

il y a 7 minutes, Messkoo a dit :

Immunity for you alone, your allies and objectives are not protected during cast. And vitrify take time to stop enemies, they can still shoot you once or 2 when you stop casting, at High lvl it's death.

MF need change, but this change is not the good one for me. (for me a total change, not a wall)

Basicly this. If you don't like the fact that it's barely comparable to a Frost's Snowglobe (even if I do believe that Frost still has the upper hand here just because of the 4sec invul and stacking) Don't put yourself in this situation in the first place. They wanted to go for a weird Molecular prime and snowglobe mix and now will end up with something weaker than both while still being her ultimate.

[Aliant_PL]

2 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

Agreed. 

DE should balance them all. 

And I'm not even joking. This game clearly has no well defined line of expected frame effectiveness. They balance them as they go. They need to sit down, decide clearly and well where's the line separating what's acceptable and what's not, and retune all frames, weapons and enemies accordingly. 

This^ This should be done a long time ago because now it will only get worse

[(XBOX)Onawa Nootau]

1 minute ago, tnccs215 said:

Agreed. 

DE should balance them all. 

And I'm not even joking. This game clearly has no well defined line of expected frame effectiveness. They balance them as they go. They need to sit down, decide clearly and we'll wheres the line separating what's acceptable and what's not, and retune all frames, weapons and enemies accordingly. 

That won't happen! Not for a long... long ...long time >,< Nerfing the wall sounds easier. (And again breaks her making her a 1 trick pony... I thought we wanted to move away from 1 trick ponies...? Didn't we? Nidus uses all of his kit... If they just changed her 3, she too could use all of her kit!! Harrow uses all of his kit) 

 

I mean come on even Mesa which can shut down ... A LOT! Uses all of her kit (Minus 1 most of the time... that needs to scale) 

 

Gara you use her 2, and cast MV  to refresh the timer on 2 abilities awesome. Put a 3 outside the wall (If they ever improve it. And allow more CC. Use that 1 to break it all gain shards for 2, and re cast!) 

Her 3 needs a fix, not her wall. (No this isn't a wall pun)

[tnccs215]

10 minutes ago, Aliant_PL said:

This^ This should be done a long time ago because now it will only get worse

The Devs got lucky that their initial irresponsibility towards balancing shifted the game's core gameplay from a "vanilla shooter with nice aesthetics" to a rather unique "horde mode demi-God simulator" that people ended up liking more than the original, but that luck has limits, and has been showing its cracks for well over two years. 

Yes, we all love powerful powers and weapons, but when tools are so woefully different in terms of effectiveness between themselves (therefore benefiting people who prefer one frame or weapon over those who prefer others) and enemies themselves are next to incapable of ever matching us no matter their supposed level of strength (due to the cheer effectiveness of the tools at our disposal), any shred of apparent challenge is nullified, and with it, the fun of the core aspect of the game. 

I love this game to the bloody hell, but there are only so many circles of burning out I can deal with, and so much fun I can create in an environment that does not actively engage nor challenge me. 

[Vulcanist25]

So... Frost but a girl... same mod setup and everything? Her current ult isn't as overpowered as some might want to believe. Enemies could often go over, under, and even straight through it just by putting the gun through the wall. Splash damage still goes through it like Frost's globe. This change is effectivly just making another Frost variant, no different builds just.. Frost but a girl.

[tnccs215]

10 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Onawa Nootau said:

That won't happen! Not for a long... long ...long time >,<

Correction: it won't happen. At least, I don't believe it will. It demands amounts of focus, care and time that DE, either by necessity or lack of desire, has never ever employed on anything they ever released. 

I understand their limitations. This is Free2Play that survives on constant content addition (or appears so), and to reformulate what is instead of just adding more stuff is risky - specially since you might piss part of the community off. But hell, it's also necessary, and must be done sooner or later. 

And even if it isn't all done in one go, if they prefer to slowly rework individual frames and weapons and systems (which is very much possible), they have to at least be goddamn consistent. 

And bloody hell, I doubt very much it takes months to vaguely redesign a Warframe power. Every frame rework taking months and then be forgotten makes no sense whatsoever. 

But yeah. I honestly think Warframe will continue like this for a good while. 

[Akimbo]

1 minute ago, Vulcanist25 said:

So... Frost but a girl... same mod setup and everything? Her current ult isn't as overpowered as some might want to believe. Enemies could often go over, under, and even straight through it just by putting the gun through the wall. Splash damage still goes through it like Frost's globe. This change is effectivly just making another Frost variant, no different builds just.. Frost but a girl.

And worse than Frost. Since her Ult won't scale as well as his 3.

[Aliant_PL]

MV is OP (if used correctly), we all can agree with that but I feel like DE is overreacting, there is no need for such big changes and nerfing MV to the ground.

Just make that you can't shoot through the wall from inside. Limited height will actually make sense because you still will be able to shoot over the wall.

[Akimbo]

2 minutes ago, Aliant_PL said:

 

Just make that you can't shoot through the wall from inside.

No. No. No. No, no no no. Don't give them ideas on how to ruin her ULTIMATE ABILITY even more.

[Aliant_PL]

Just now, Akimbo said:

No. No. No. No, no no no. Don't give them ideas on how to ruin her ULTIMATE ABILITY even more.

It's better than making second snowglobe.

[Akimbo]

1 minute ago, Aliant_PL said:

It's better than making second snowglobe.

They're not making a second snowglobe. Their 'proposed' changes are making it more like Snowglobe with a nerf that is unwarrented.

They're making it useless. Her ult will become a CC and way to refresh her 2 only.

[SSI_Seraph]

à l’instant, Aliant_PL a dit :

It's better than making second snowglobe.

than you're making second cataclysm minus the roof on your head and the energy/sec while inside plus the longer downtime to get enough height

 

[(PSN)EatZombies]

50 minutes ago, LEGION346 said:

Octavia with Mallet and 4 since enemies will prioritise them.

I'm sorry but this honestly made me laugh 😂 

I get it'd be super powerful if every enemy attacked it over you, but I find only a few number of enemies actually attack Mallet if not still inconsistently.

But you're right, they will prioritize it. However, nowhere as much as the sentence may suggest.