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PSA: [PC] Upcoming Changes to Gara's "Mass Vitrify" (Bonus Volt Info)

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Just now, Marine027 said:

Consdier that her defense might have more HP then 4 Frost globes it would be balanced still maybe? How about we first see how it turns out before complaining already?

how so? she has less base armor then frost 

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It still does way more than Snowglobe does.

Blocks enemy movement, stuns enemies caught within it, enemies caught within it take more damage, deals damage when detonated with her one, as well as refreshing and stacking damage on her 2.

Also the post said " It will eventually break apart in sections when enough damage has been dealt to that specific section of the glass wall. " meaning you can't have one bombard rocket kill it while scrambling for energy, unlike Frost.

 

Vitrify is a strictly better Snowglobe still and has far more aplications. Giving it a health bar won't do much to negatively effect any of them.

Edited by trst
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1 minute ago, Stoner74 said:

Well tbh, it is kinda OP. You can lock an entire room and its enemies. I don't think it's what DE wants. 

lock for some time .. trust me when masive enemies come on u and those bubles corpus coming u dont have chance. if u ++ plus of eximus u dont have energy to cast in time anyway bb gara for me this will make change build totally and make her useles at high lvls.

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1 minute ago, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

she never did frost cover 360 globe she has a ring

And how many times do enemies attack from above?

Not particularly often.

Also, a ring covers 360 degrees by default.

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Just now, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said:

she never did frost cover 360 globe she has a ring

cept she always did if you knew how to place your ring. very, very few enemies would be able to jump into the ring if you placed it correctly and it is not annoying like frost and lets you shoot inside and actually kept enemies out of the ring instead of just slowing them. and gara's other abilities were much stronger than what frost had.

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il y a 5 minutes, Stoner74 a dit :

Well tbh, it is kinda OP. You can lock an entire room and its enemies. I don't think it's what DE wants. 

It's an area denial for the enemies and unless the enemies are in the casting animation, it does nothing else but that. You still need to kill them and a huge bullet sponge still need to be dealt with, the difference is that you have a protection to help you out. Not only that but teleporting and flying enemies can ignore a barrier and a nullifier instantly makes it disappear, it doesn't event explodes it just straight up disappears.

Also I hate when everyone is like "Frost is back to defense meta" when he's better at being CC than pure defense.

Edited by ChipsLight
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Just now, trst said:

It still does way more than Snowglobe does.

Blocks enemy movement, stuns enemies caught within it, enemies caught within it take more damage, deals damage when detonated with her one, as well as refreshing and stackign damage on her 2.

Also the post said " It will eventually break apart in sections when enough damage has been dealt to that specific section of the glass wall. " meaning you can't have one bombard rocket kill it while scramblign for energy, unlike Frost.

 

Vitrify is a strictly better Snowglobe still and has far more aplications. Giving it a health bar won't do much to negatively effect any of them.

in terms of ofensive and defensive wall in normal amps it can be greater, but in pure defensive case its far more open to attacks or simply enemies walking under/over it 

and it said eventually, could be almost identical effect as globe, 1 hit and gone , in effect making it  harder to maintain her 4 defensively and requiring more cast, which could help with 2 but not her 1 

and frost with globe augment can also slow/stop enemies with an augment 

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1 minute ago, davej83 said:

lock for some time .. trust me when masive enemies come on u and those bubles corpus coming u dont have chance. if u ++ plus of eximus u dont have energy to cast in time anyway bb gara for me this will make change build totally and make her useles at high lvls.

That is for Corpus. Nullifiers are so annoying that I barely play against them anymore. But that's another topic. I think if enough tweak and changes are made, her Mass Vitrify can be "ok" with health. Like I said above, remove the duration and maybe add some extra damage and slash procs. I feel like just having a wall that has both duration and health while not covering the air and can be jumped over is very weak for an ultimate ability. 

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Her 3 is utterly useless, give it some scalability both in dmg done and absorbed cus at sortie 2 lvl it's as strong as a snowflake on a candle's light...

Since you're going to nerf her 4th you should get rid of the duration after the wall is done but keep the duration at which the wave expands, knowing the pattern when it comes to some decisions and "improvements "  the Wall, unless it gains some sort of stackability like Snow Globe with 4 secs invulnerability etc etc, will be vaporized in a couple of hits around lvl 80 anyway....

On a side note, her first should be affected by speed drift & / or Natural talent OR melee speed mods

 

 

Edited by arm4geddon-117
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12 minutes ago, Stoner74 said:

Well tbh, it is kinda OP. You can lock an entire room and its enemies. I don't think it's what DE wants. 

um how is it any different to vauban's bastille with the repelling augment, that's not been nerfed and it does the exact same thing.

6 minutes ago, Corvid said:

And how many times do enemies attack from above?

Quite a bit actually on higher level PoE but to be honest this isn't being done due to PoE use in all likelihood

Edited by LSG501
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Gerade eben schrieb LSG501:

um how is it any different to vauban's bastille with the repelling augment, that's not been nerfed and it does the exact same thing.

Becasue that has a limit to how many enemys it can hold or repell, shorter duration and limited uses depending on your max energy.

On top it does no damage on shattering unlike Gara which is offensive and defense in one alot with that.

Edited by Marine027
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Have to say I understand the reason for the change, but I feel a bit worried by it. Yes, Gara's #4, as it stands, can be very overpowered.  But the change to take damage with no other changes makes it weaker than frost IMO.

If the shield had a very high base value & no longer affect by duration...I might call that fair.   But making it like a frost globe with none of other benefits seems like a significant nerf.  I really don't want gara to be come a cast 2 then spam 4-1-4-1-4-1-4-1 to get the stacking mojo going.   Even then...this change will make the cast 2 then 4-1-4-1-4-1 method even more desired since the #4  by itself has been greatly weakened.  

But right now frost can:

  • CC up to 4 locations
  • Stack shield very high and quickly
  • Use shield to qiuckly clear enemies
  • Requires less time to perform most actions

The only thing gara offers is the #2 which, if you think about it...is probably cast on herself more often than her team.  

Another option is to also make power strength make the vitrify cast quicker...something like 300% power strength would be 1/8th the time.

Edited by Chappie1975
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Just now, Marine027 said:

Becasue taht has a limit to how many enemys it cna hold or repell, shorter duration and limited uses depending on your max energy.

there is no limit to how many it can repel, once it's full it repels all enemies except when it bugs out and drops a random enemy.

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Frost's Globe:

  • "Fixed" Range (can be modded, but can't be changed in mission)
  • Has Invulnerable Time (4s), absorbs damage and adds to health
  • Protection from sides, top and botton
  • Instant cast
  • Enemies can enter, but are heavly slowed
  • Enemies inside the range are thrown away on cast
  • Can create up to 4 separate globes
  • Costs 50
  • Unlimited duration 

Gara's Mass Vitrify:

  • Variable Range during mission
  • No Invulnerable time
  • No protection from top or botton
  • No instant cast (Gara is Invulnerable herself while casting tho)
  • Enemies can't enter 
  • Enemies inside the range keep attacking for a few seconds until the are "frozen" in place
  • Can only create 1 glass wall
  • Costs 75 + 3 for every second channeling
  • Max of a little under 70s

 

Considering the initial health of both Globe and Vitrify will be the same, the only way for Gara to be actually useful to protect an area and not just a "weaker Frost" is if Mass Vitrify gets an Invulnerable time and add the damage receved to the total health, something like Invulnerable time being 4s + channeling time on creating the wall, even with full duration, channeling time is only 9 seconds, making a total of 13s Invulnerable with open top and botton

Edited by Emulad0or
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5 minutes ago, ChipsLight said:

It's an area denial for the enemies and unless the enemies are in the casting animation, it does nothing else but that. You still need to kill them and a huge bullet sponge still need to be dealt with, the difference is that you have a protection to help you out. Not only that but teleporting and flying enemies can ignore a barrier and a nullifier instantly makes it disappear, it doesn't event explodes it just straight up disappears.

Also I hate when everyone is like "Frost is back to defense meta" when he's better at being CC than pure defense.

Fair enough. But she isn't a DPS frame, her main purpose is to CC an area. And she does it well, almost too well for DE it seems. I don't like the change but I can understand the reasoning behind it. 

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would be nice if her 4 refreshed her 2 on collapse/wall destruction/destruction from her 1 instead of the current on cast of 4.....

oh and change it from a tap to cast and tap to stop to a Hold...would make it far easier to get variable cover....

Edited by Kalvorax
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Please add an invulnerability phase where the wall is invulnerable after expanding and can absorb incoming damage to use as HP. It can not stack such as Frost's Globe and will need a method of scaling at higher levels

 

EDIT: Perhaps take the stats of the enemies hit by Mass Vitrify? Power Strength x (cum. enemy health x cum enermy armour) 

Edited by VerinESC

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22 минуты назад, Zeclem сказал:

so she wont make frost irrelevant anymore? wonderful.

If a frame that was mostly used in Kuva farming and had buggy enough ability with long cast time that left your teamamtes and objective vulnerable "made frost irrelevant" for you especially with a fact that frost is milliosn years old and everyone's sick of seeing him in all kind of defense misisons I have some bad news bud

Цитата

Enemies can't enter

  • Ability is bugged just like repelling bastille or limbos 2+4, they actually can enter when you recast it and don't freeze at all + some enemies like Kuva guardians can jump from above and enemies can spawn inside the bubble. So much about being "godly"
Edited by -Temp0-
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Gerade eben schrieb LSG501:

there is no limit to how many it can repel, once it's full it repels all enemies except when it bugs out and drops a random enemy.

Still makes them able to shoot inside thou, besdies it not damages them, just shoves them backwards, while on Gara she can stakc as mayn she wants infront her wall, thne decides to shatter it, damage all of them at once, Vauban is pure CC in this case while Gara is Defense with alot of damage capability.

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This seems like a whatever change to me. Probably wanna give something to gara since you are effectively just taking with this change. You're making the ability a worse snow globe, why would anyone want that?

Edited by Skaleek
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players will abandon gara affter this nerf, bcs her 4 th will be useles vs enemies lvl 80+ (¿maybe 60 ?.)

when we say we want chagellenge this mean can figth vs enemies lvl 80 + with not feel we are piece of paper and our abilities are  a ball of paper trow on truck..
 

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