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PSA: [PC] Upcoming Changes to Gara's "Mass Vitrify" (Bonus Volt Info)


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il y a 1 minute, Cubewano a dit :

The only others frames I can think of somewhat close to Gara (and not on the same tier) is Limbo and Banshee, that isn't 1/3 of the warframe roster. And I would 100% understand and probably agree if changes (but not blind nerfs) were made to their kits to make them more involved. One of the fantastic things about this game is it constantly willing to evolve and improve, and much to your dismay, it has been going strong and growing bigger all the time alongside it. People haven't been flocking to this game because it doesn't change, that has never been a thing, and it'd probably be worse off if it did. 

What about, Vauban? Ember? Frost? Rhino? Equinox?

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3 hours ago, LEGION346 said:

In Gara's case. What about others? Here is the video I made where I use different frames to lock down area. How Gara is different to them? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YUM2DyUokA

 

Yeah, I’m still trying to understand the discrepancy in the case-by-case scenario they say Gara isn’t allowed to have. Because if literally every other defensive(and some offensive) frame in the game gets to lock down entire maps, then why can’t she? Because she has 90% DR? Mesa, hello? Because she slows enemies to a crawl/stop? Frost, Nova, hello? Because she can do damage... To only enemies in melee range? Well, what is it that allows Saryn to get away with such a criminal act across an entire map? Not to mention, if played properly she rarely has to recast her 1 until the end of the wave/round. This is such a double standard to the point of infuriation. 

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3 minutes ago, Veisper said:

This is in part why many of us here found this change unfair at the moment, so much frame need it too. And since Gara was hard to get and fun to play instead of fixing her 3 they nerf to the ground her 4 (nerf at the point where Frost bubble is better) and totally ignore the other frame with lockdown capability and they use the lockdown to justify the changes.

DE can't do anything about that though, at some point some frame would have to be the first, they can't just stay on hold so nobody feels hit first, nor should they for such childish reasoning. Also so much seems like an overstatement, maybe several frames truly warrant interactivity changes. I do agree DE should look at fulls kits when doing rebalances though, it's something I feel de overlooks far too often in these cases, they see one over preforming and put all their focus into it and forget there is a full kit there that also deserve adequate attention. Understand I am not saying the changes being done are the right ones, but change was warranted and I'm not going to bash de for addressing something that needed address, hopefully through accurate feedback they'll get to the place they need to be, but people blindly saying the skill is fine because they don't want something they know is a problem to be addressed first is not helping. 

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2 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

DE can't do anything about that though, at some point some frame would have to be the first, they can't just stay on hold so nobody feels hit first, nor should they for such childish reasoning. Also so much seems like an overstatement, maybe several frames truly warrant interactivity changes. I do agree DE should look at fulls kits when doing rebalances though, it's something I feel de overlooks far too often in these cases, they see one over preforming and put all their focus into it and forget there is a full kit there that also deserve adequate attention. Understand I am not saying the changes being done are the right ones, but change was warranted and I'm not going to bash de for addressing something that needed address, hopefully through accurate feedback they'll get to the place they need to be, but people blindly saying the skill is fine because they don't want something they know is a problem to be addressed first is not helping. 

There is a huge ideology discrepancy here.  From what I am gathering reading your posts you think being able to lock down an area is bad.  I don't.  I gravitate to frames that are invulnerable, lock down areas easily and or can kill everything easily.  From the differing viewpoints we are playing the same game but it's 2 totally different games.  My interactivity is in choosing the build and loadout I am using.  Picking the map I want to play.  If when in the mission I can make it so I just sit there while everything dies or is locked out, I'm happy.  That is what I want.  Why should that get removed from the game?  If you don't want to play that way then don't! Use some other frame that doesn't do that. 

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4 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

DE can't do anything about that though, at some point some frame would have to be the first, they can't just stay on hold so nobody feels hit first, nor should they for such childish reasoning. Also so much seems like an overstatement, maybe several frames truly warrant interactivity changes. I do agree DE should look at fulls kits when doing rebalances though, it's something I feel de overlooks far too often in these cases, they see one over preforming and put all their focus into it and forget there is a full kit there that also deserve adequate attention. Understand I am not saying the changes being done are the right ones, but change was warranted and I'm not going to bash de for addressing something that needed address, hopefully through accurate feedback they'll get to the place they need to be, but people blindly saying the skill is fine because they don't want something they know is a problem to be addressed first is not helping. 

At the same time, saying that it is inherently broken just because it gives temporary invulnerability is just as childish and moronic. Not only does it break after a while, but there are several ways to get around Gara's 4th ability as is.

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1 hour ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

This. This is Grade A analysis here. I would have added how the nullifiers can break the wall while it is building already in addition to when it is complete, and how the wall can be easilly circumvented through going over, under, or even just poking their weapons through.

Thank you a lot! 

I did not add those complains because, well, even though I utterly despise nullifiers, I have to admit that the wall being destroyed is somewhat consistent with their general behavior (which ironically isn't that consistent, but you get my point). 

With the rest, enemies vaulting under and over are fair counters against a goddamn giant, intransposable wall; and sticking their guns into it in order to shoot beyond it should be considered a glitch, and therefore fixed regardless of the ability itself. 

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9 minutes ago, Zin-Azhsari said:

 

Vauban, Octavia, Ember come to mind instantly.

 

If Gara got a max range on her 4 and lose the ability to cast it while active, along getting a small duration increase on her 2 so she can refresh it but lose the ability to infinitely stack it, and a small buff to her 3, she would be perfect.

How do these frames manage a full minute or more lockdowns in single or dual casts with blanket protection from all enemies? From my experience vauban requires regular upkeep/casting or otherwise can still be targeted by ranged enemies, and you aren't keeping up Ember's wof just idling in the middle of the map. I don't play octavia enough to know her case. 

I support buffing her 3, not sure her 2 needs more duration but also wouldn't be opposed, and I'm not sure just not being able to recast until the skill is expired would be a good enough change. You still are able to do nothing with it up for long stretches of time, no upkeep or anything. 

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Just now, tnccs215 said:

Thank you a lot! 

I did not add those complains because, well, even though I utterly despise nullifiers, I have to admit that the wall being destroyed is somewhat consistent with their general behavior (which ironically isn't that consistent, but you get my point). 

With the rest, enemies vaulting under and over are fair counters against a goddamn giant, intransposable wall; and sticking their guns into it in order to shoot beyond it should be considered a glitch, and therefore fixed regardless of the ability itself. 

Both very true instances. It just personally annoys me when I spend my time and energy to expand the wall, only for it to be broken by them moments before completion.

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1 minute ago, Cubewano said:

How do these frames manage a full minute or more lockdowns in single or dual casts with blanket protection from all enemies? From my experience vauban requires regular upkeep/casting or otherwise can still be targeted by ranged enemies, and you aren't keeping up Ember's wof just idling in the middle of the map. I don't play octavia enough to know her case. 

I support buffing her 3, not sure her 2 needs more duration but also wouldn't be opposed, and I'm not sure just not being able to recast until the skill is expired would be a good enough change. You still are able to do nothing with it up for long stretches of time, no upkeep or anything. 

For Octavia, her 1st and 2nd play of each other, drawing enemy fire and attacking each other, while her 4th allows her to further boost her teammates and her 1st and 2nd abilities to completely shut down enemy fire.

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3 minutes ago, HedrusPrime said:

There is a huge ideology discrepancy here.  From what I am gathering reading your posts you think being able to lock down an area is bad.  I don't.  I gravitate to frames that are invulnerable, lock down areas easily and or can kill everything easily.  From the differing viewpoints we are playing the same game but it's 2 totally different games.  My interactivity is in choosing the build and loadout I am using.  Picking the map I want to play.  If when in the mission I can make it so I just sit there while everything dies or is locked out, I'm happy.  That is what I want.  Why should that get removed from the game?  If you don't want to play that way then don't! Use some other frame that doesn't do that. 

I think being able to lockdown an area for low to no effort/involvement is bad. It devalues gameplay, and thus devalues the rewards for playing, which ultimately leads to a weaker experience, and will sooner send people out the doors. DE has regularly displayed they feel the sentiment as well. 

Can I ask you what is enjoyable though about sitting in a map from some 20+ minutes doing nothing but pressing one or two buttons every other minute? 

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1 minute ago, Cubewano said:

In che modo questi frame gestiscono un minuto intero o più lockdown in single o dual cast con protezione totale da tutti i nemici? Dalla mia esperienza, il vauban richiede un mantenimento / lancio regolare o comunque può essere preso di mira da nemici a distanza, e non stai mantenendo la brace di Ember solo al minimo nel centro della mappa. Non gioco Ottavia abbastanza da conoscere il suo caso. 

Io sostengo di lucidare il suo 3, non sono sicuro che lei abbia bisogno di più tempo ma non si opporrà, e non sono sicuro che non essere in grado di rifarlo finché l'abilità non è scaduta sarebbe un cambiamento abbastanza buono. Sei ancora in grado di non fare nulla con esso per lunghi periodi di tempo, senza manutenzione o altro. 

Banshee? Limbo? Frost? 
For Gara, you have to play with a minimum of brain, otherwise it is annoying like anything else in the game. :)

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Just now, Cubewano said:

I think being able to lockdown an area for low to no effort/involvement is bad. It devalues gameplay, and thus devalues the rewards for playing, which ultimately leads to a weaker experience, and will sooner send people out the doors. DE has regularly displayed they feel the sentiment as well. 

Can I ask you what is enjoyable though about sitting in a map from some 20+ minutes doing nothing but pressing one or two buttons every other minute? 

While I agree that I don't personally find such a thing fun, others have that specific playstyle.

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

At the same time, saying that it is inherently broken just because it gives temporary invulnerability is just as childish and moronic. Not only does it break after a while, but there are several ways to get around Gara's 4th ability as is.

It breaks after over a solid minute, and can be easily recast. Within warframe that is an incredibly long and powerful defense. And as far as I'm aware, outside open maps against air units there isn't much in the ways of getting around her 4th if you are using it right. 

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1 minute ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

For Octavia, her 1st and 2nd play of each other, drawing enemy fire and attacking each other, while her 4th allows her to further boost her teammates and her 1st and 2nd abilities to completely shut down enemy fire.

That sounds like a lot of activity going on...not a single cast wonder. 

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3 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

I think being able to lockdown an area for low to no effort/involvement is bad. It devalues gameplay, and thus devalues the rewards for playing, which ultimately leads to a weaker experience, and will sooner send people out the doors. DE has regularly displayed they feel the sentiment as well. 

Can I ask you what is enjoyable though about sitting in a map from some 20+ minutes doing nothing but pressing one or two buttons every other minute? 

Power trip.  Spending time making the loadout work like that is incredibly gratifying.  If I wanted to play a really hard game I'll go play Dark Souls.  This game is relaxing for me. 

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1 minute ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

While I agree that I don't personally find such a thing fun, others have that specific playstyle.

It's a difficult playstyles to appeal to when still trying to keep balanced efforts/rewards for a game though, and DE seems far more inclined to pay attention to the later, which extends gameplay and makes player more invested thus giving  promoting more playtime and in turn more revenue.  

1 minute ago, (PS4)MRPecoraH said:

Banshee? Limbo? Frost? 
For Gara, you have to play with a minimum of brain, otherwise it is annoying like anything else in the game. :)

I already noted banshee and limbo as being problems as well in an earlier post, frost however I feel has plenty interactivity in his kit in relation to his ability to lockdown. 

You don't need a brain to press 4 every once in a while. 

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2 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

It breaks after over a solid minute, and can be easily recast. Within warframe that is an incredibly long and powerful defense. And as far as I'm aware, outside open maps against air units there isn't much in the ways of getting around her 4th if you are using it right. 

Agreed on both fronts. I would personally recommend removing the duration scale, but keeping the invulnerability because it is the major drawing factor. Hell, they could even just cap the duration so that you can only have the equivalent of Continuity on in total duration. Just continuity is only 10 seconds as opposed to minutes. Don't forget though that it takes a lot of time and energy to cast, meaning that if it is popped by a nullifier at any point, you have effectively wasted your time and effort.

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5 minutes ago, HedrusPrime said:

Power trip.  Spending time making the loadout work like that is incredibly gratifying.  If I wanted to play a really hard game I'll go play Dark Souls.  This game is relaxing for me. 

Fair enough I guess, I don't think it's the direction DE wants to go with their game though. 

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Just now, Cubewano said:

It's a difficult playstyles to appeal to when still trying to keep balanced efforts/rewards for a game though, and DE seems far more inclined to pay attention to the later, which extends gameplay and makes player more invested thus giving  promoting more playtime and in turn more revenue.  

I totally agree here, yet the only way to keep players engaged is to allow them to play the game their own way, as opposed to one uniform method.

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8 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

That sounds like a lot of activity going on...not a single cast wonder. 

As someone said. 3 presses of the buttons. Her skills scale with duration so can last even 1 minute. 3 presses of a button per minute. And Octavia dosn't require modding for each stat as will Gara after nerf.

Edited by LEGION346
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6 minutes ago, (PS4)Boomstickman98 said:

It is literally 3 presses of a button for skills that ALL scale off duration, meaning they can all last minutes at a time.

Plus keeping up buffs from her four if I recall. Gotta duck to the rhythm.

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12 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

È uno stile di gioco difficile da attirare quando si cerca di mantenere gli sforzi / i compensi bilanciati per un gioco, e DE sembra molto più incline a prestare attenzione alla successiva, che estende il gameplay e rende il giocatore più investito, promuovendo così più tempo di gioco ea sua volta più entrate.  

Ho già notato banshee e limbo come problemi anche in un post precedente, ma ho comunque molta interattività nel suo kit in relazione alla sua capacità di bloccare. 

Non hai bisogno di un cervello per premere 4 ogni tanto. 

To play without annoying.
What does it take to press 4 for Banshee (3 minutes of quake without augment) and 4 and 2 for Limbo?
If you play badly it is not the fault of the frame, but of who uses it.

Edited by (PS4)MRPecoraH
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