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[DE]Aidan

PSA: [PC] Upcoming Changes to Gara's "Mass Vitrify" (Bonus Volt Info)

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2 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Hey Tenno,

Just wanted to drop in here and give a little update on some upcoming changes to Gara’s fourth ability: Mass Vitrify. Coming in the next update, this ability will no longer be invulnerable to damage. It will eventually break apart in sections when enough damage has been dealt to that specific section of the glass wall.

The wall’s health is determined by both your ability power strength and armor mods, just like Frost’s Snow Globe. This will give your enemies a few extra options for dealing with Mass Vitrify, leading to some more dynamic encounters when using the wall defensively. 

Please use this thread to discuss any questions or feedback. 

Thanks, Tenno!

Edit: Apologies Tenno, I have moved the Topic to the general news board to allow all users to contribute to the thread.

If the wall can be destroyed in sections, does this mean the individual sections can be shattered with her 1 separately?
That could open up some options for stacking her 2 as well as funneling enemies.
I do also feel like her 3 needs a boost in its effect, or maybe even allow it to repair the 4.
If we're gonna be able to funnel enemies, we need to have ways to utilize it effectively.

I do agree with most of the comments on this thread however. I feel like this removes the diversity between her ability and Frost, and I would like to hear more on what you plan for implementation to make this a compelling alternative to Frost's Snow Globe.

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19 minutes ago, PurpleNyxPrime said:

Fun Detected, Deploying Nerfs

Fun not allowed

Can't be having fun in my video games....nope that would be a bad thing indeed 

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2 minutes ago, Kako_Kako said:

So if I am reading this right......they are basically nerfing Gara under the label of 'rework' or 'rebalance'. Nothing was wrong with her current setup. As it stands this may basically her forth a poor-man's Frost. 

Poor-mans frost what no. More like buying a Kia at the price of a Bugatti

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1 minute ago, weirdee said:

Unless there's some kind of tradeoff (no duration, special effect from walls breaking from shots, etc), this doesn't really make the meta less broken. Frost has never been nerfed, and yet all of his abilities can shut down everything at the same rate, much faster, for less mod investment. Gara's wall is not foolproof (it's useless in the plains and is vulnerable to teleports, nullifiers, and platform jumping animations of enemies, plus duration based and takes a few seconds to cast), and the wall's sizing has to be timed exactly and the higher you cast, the less coverage you get on enemies at close range on the ground, problems that frost doesn't have to deal with because he is always going to be better at area denial (instant snowglobe pushing and slowdown no matter what, up to four globes cast, infinite duration and effectively infinite health as long as you keep stacking, instant area freeze stun with avalanche) than Gara.

Actually, frost has gone through the EXACT same process that gara is going through right now. I don't know if you've been playing long enough to remember, but way back when, frost's snowglobe was also invulnerable and had a duration, which was changed to having 4 seconds invulnerability and a certain health, WITH a duration, thus being a MAJOR nerf, almost exactly like what everyone here is complaining about, then he got a rework to have no duration and simply having health. Then he got a rework being able to detonate globes, ice wave became a conal ability and avalanche became armor stripping and increased damage, as well as snowglobe pushing enemies back.

Thus Gara is going through the exact same process, and will likely end up on the same side, which is bad because she should be different than frost.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Hey Tenno,

Just wanted to drop in here and give a little update on some upcoming changes to Gara’s fourth ability: Mass Vitrify. Coming in the next update, this ability will no longer be invulnerable to damage. It will eventually break apart in sections when enough damage has been dealt to that specific section of the glass wall.

The wall’s health is determined by both your ability power strength and armor mods, just like Frost’s Snow Globe. This will give your enemies a few extra options for dealing with Mass Vitrify, leading to some more dynamic encounters when using the wall defensively. 

Please use this thread to discuss any questions or feedback. 

Thanks, Tenno!

Edit: Apologies Tenno, I have moved the Topic to the general news board to allow all users to contribute to the thread.

2 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

The time spent casting the ability as it grows will not affect the health of the wall.

2 hours ago, [DE]Aidan said:

Yes, it will still be affected by duration.

So, the only use for Mass Vitrify will be buffing the damage on her 2.

Which will turn her into a very small range, very high (potentially infinite) damage, nigh-unkillable version of Ember/Equinox.

Great job, DE. You took a good jack-of-all-trades frame and turned her into the tankiest short-range DPS in the game, not to mention the incredibly long buildup and extreme energy cost required to use said build.

 

 

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1 minute ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Actually, frost has gone through the EXACT same process that gara is going through right now. I don't know if you've been playing long enough to remember, but way back when, frost's snowglobe was also invulnerable and had a duration, which was changed to having 4 seconds invulnerability and a certain health, WITH a duration, thus being a MAJOR nerf, almost exactly like what everyone here is complaining about, then he got a rework to have no duration and simply having health. Then he got a rework being able to detonate globes, ice wave became a conal ability and avalanche became armor stripping and increased damage, as well as snowglobe pushing enemies back.

Thus Gara is going through the exact same process, and will likely end up on the same side, which is bad because she should be different than frost.

Or worse, end up like Nyx lol (well maybe not that bad, but still a worse version of another frame).

I'm mostly annoyed that they aren't working through the process FASTER because of experience. This is a step back from their earlier efforts.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Thus Gara is going through the exact same process, and will likely end up on the same side, which is bad because she should be different than frost.

 

The most annoying part is that they shouldn't have to learn this lesson again. Did nobody at the design table throw their hand in the air and say "Excuse me, we did this with Frost once, and it sucked."

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Actually, frost has gone through the EXACT same process that gara is going through right now.

 

1 minute ago, RedDirtTrooper said:

Did nobody at the design table throw their hand in the air and say "Excuse me, we did this with Frost once, and it sucked."

 

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Honestly, I understand the sentiment that Mass Vitrify in its current state is too powerful. Being able to completely block damage and enemies from coming in from around you for a certain period of time is very strong. However, it has its tradeoffs compared with Cataclysm/Stasis, Snow Globe, etc. I don't think this upcoming change is elegant or good at all. The invulnerability, the most important feature of Mass Vitrify, is being removed, giving it the same weaknesses as Snow Globe without addressing its existing shortcomings.

IMO, a more fun solution would have been to keep the invulnerability to enemy fire, but allow enemies to pass through the wall, and have them slowly vitrify as soon as they enter. You keep the invulnerability to enemy fire but address the issue of enemies just completely being blocked out from the inside of the wall.

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Completely pointless change. It was already situational - yes the glassification of enemies is nice, but using it out on the plains you will constantly have enemies drop inside the ring unless you make it really small. Same on Hydron when the defense objective is low down. It has no on-going effect, so anything that does get in is unaffected, it has high energy cost and you are immobile while casting, and has no "top". Bullet jumping often ends up leaving gaps at the bottom edge. AND it's on a timer - so you have to recast at least once every 60s.

It's a good ability as it is, but it is situational, and not perfect. For some missions I would still recommend other techniques. But this change is just pointless.

Using her 4th will only be used to charge up her second ability - I'm so very disappointed. I love using Gara, but I'll be playing her a lot less if this goes through.

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I got a dev idea. How about STOP NERFING FRAMES let us have fun in builds and playing frames. and make a new galaxy or focus on the open world with some higher lvl content what we been beating up on lvl 40 mobs for how many years now.

 

I could understand this in conclave but who the heck plays in the conclave. and even so i would just sit in a corner stack dmg and run around wiping the map clean lol.

Gara's new role in warframe cast 2 on everyone break walls at will everyones a meat grinder

 

Edited by ChaotikDreamz
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welp since gara will no longer be invulnerable while casting her 4th, next patch i'll most likely sell gara for credits. it'll be all she will be good for then. that good..what? 2k credits.... buy some...some furrite with those credits....I hate my life... now more than ever so with this nerf. like please stop taking away all the good things. please...my endo is in pain due to its pointless sacrifices...

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This is sad because Gara is one of my favorite frames

It will come down to the math, if they use the same scaling as Frost's globe, it will be utter garbage, Frost's globe is already pretty squishy in sorties even with armor + strength, and Gara has very low armor 

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I'm more interested to what made you guys want to change her 4?

Just saying, not sure if you guys(DE) are aware, changes to characters' skills only shows that you guys didn't think or plan thoroughly of the characters' abilities before releasing them.

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1 minute ago, RedToothKaki said:

welp since gara will no longer be invulnerable while casting her 4th, next patch i'll most likely sell gara for credits. it'll be all she will be good for then. that good..what? 2k credits.... buy some...some furrite with those credits....I hate my life... now more than ever so with this nerf. like please stop taking away all the good things. please...my endo is in pain due to its pointless sacrifices...

You got it wrong. DE said the wall would not be invulnerable anymore, I think Gara will remain invincible while making the wall.

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2 hours ago, Phatose said:

If it's health based, it shouldn't have a duration limit.  And something needs to be done about the crazy long casting time, and should probably have more health then snow globe.

Otherwise, it's simply a terrible ability.  It's her ultimate, yet it has duration limit, health limit, and is open to attacks from above, and immobilizes you for quite some time when being cast. 

How, exactly, is Gara's 4 going to be better then Frost's 3?

 

Edit: Oops, 3, not 2.

Couldn't agree more. This gave a lot of people who were tired/did not enjoy using frost, a chance to be a defensive player. Now, not so much.

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1 minute ago, HolySeraphin said:

You got it wrong. DE said the wall would not be invulnerable anymore, I think Gara will remain invincible while making the wall.

well if that's the case then maybe there is light at the end of this nerf a thon.

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lol Gara was said to be Frost 2.0 which was fair she was good but not great. Now she's Ember 2.0 a good looking frame that will just get looked at in the arsenal remembering the days when she was fun and great.

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4 minutes ago, RedToothKaki said:

well if that's the case then maybe there is light at the end of this nerf a thon.

nope, there is only darkness

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Il y a 1 heure, [DE]Aidan a dit :

Sorry, that was my misinterpretation, no, the health will not be increased by damage absorbed during casting.

Great so now you'll have a huge amount of complains because this won't be a thing.

Anyway it's great you guys finally noticed how insanely OP that ability is.

Edited by Trichouette

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Now it will be inferior than Frost's 3rd skill (that you can place more than one and is instant cast)... nice move DE, nice move. *slow clap*

At least add a SELF BUFF INDICATOR FOR THE 2ND GARA ABILITY.

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21 minutes ago, RedDirtTrooper said:

The most annoying part is that they shouldn't have to learn this lesson again. Did nobody at the design table throw their hand in the air and say "Excuse me, we did this with Frost once, and it sucked."

Design table? You're giving too much credit to them to actually have one of those. Just expect it'll be as bad or WORSE than frost by the end of things

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If you balance based on feeling and not actual mechanics, then you get a game where nothing is concrete and things end up the way they are largely by accidents of emotion.

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