Dev Workshop: The Features of Focus 2.5

[Cerenax]

What's the point of making focus cheaper and easier to get if almost all of the abilities in it are still going to be useless and S#&$ty? Everything related to damage in there needs to be buffed by 30x just so it can fall into the baseline of the DPS levels that are actually useful against mid-to-high level enemies.

[Valarfax]

34 minutes ago, EternoRetorno said:

What's the point of making focus cheaper and easier to get if almost all of the abilities in it are still going to be useless and S#&$ty? Everything related to damage in there needs to be buffed by 30x just so it can fall into the baseline of the DPS levels that are actually useful against mid-to-high level enemies.

I agree, I don't really understand the extra energy costs for abilities that you probably won't bother using anyway since at any given time you can be doing something else to deal much more damage. So with these focus abilities not only are they inefficient when it comes to DPS but they have a downside as well. 

[eveofmana]

Vazarin needs its instant revival count recharge returned to it. Don't care if we got to charge it up somehow or wait a 5 minute cooldown.

[Arkhenbarn]

No change for Naramon ? I'm a bit surprised actually. The Void Dash branch is basically useless. As mentioned by some before me, the opening to finishers is too short to be useable and to make up for the points spent into it. I can't speak for the other schools, as I didn't test them thoroughly.

However, I have only one request that really matters to me : DO NOT KEEP CONVERGENCE !
You talk about "change of pacing", we see "annoyance for everyone". It's been said countless times : not only does ruin the experience as players, it hinders teamplay in squads. It goes against the very base of the game : cooperative PvE. Just increase the gains to begin with to make up for its removal, that would be a good beginning.

[iFlipWiGs]

17 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

 

I know its minor but could the UI team move the focus pool size increase to underneath of primary school instead of above it as pictured above.. my ocd is kicking in.

[xXDeadsinxX]

Just now, Test_the_God said:

I know its minor but could the UI team move the focus pool size increase to underneath of primary school instead of above it as pictured above.. my ocd is kicking in.

I have the same gripe as you, it bugs me as well to have it above instead of having it on bottom.

[Circle_of_Psi]

16 hours ago, Radagosh said:

they reduced it to 20% from the current 100% u want them to increase it back up?

16 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

Dude read again. Cost will be cut TO 20% of what it currently is.

So will have 80% reduction in cost.

Ok, yeah, I'm stupid, I didn't read it correctly, Ignore what I said lol

What I was trying to say, is that the % needs to be redefined even more than 20%, not increased, around 10% sounds more ideal, for both sides, but that's just me, but yeah again, sorry, I hate maths so much.

 

_{^{I REALLY GODAMM HATE MATHS}}

[Circle_of_Psi]

16 hours ago, Magnus said:

The costs are already being reduced and convergence will eventually™ get removed. On top of that, way bound themselves already didn't take that long, despite being the long-term end game grind focus was designed to be. The people who wanted it got it. There will always be a better way to go about gains. Then, we have people who don't want to put any work in at all.

Do you think it's fair to the people who want it more, who are willing to do more, to have a) their work undermined b) attempts at self-improvement rendered useless c) wasted so much time just to see DE turn around and just hand out what is meant to be an endgame grind?

It will always take effort and some amount of dedication. That has always been what focus was conveyed as.

 

No, I do not, while, Kaotyke pointed out to me that, "will have 80% reduction in cost" I still feel the points, are far too much, what I gave inside the topic, the edited box, is fair and balanced.

With your factor of "How it's not fair", I'll be honest, it should not have been this way in the first place, period. But I'm no prick, so I'll think of some way to compensate the people who already used their time and everyone else.

A: Give them big stack of Shards/Cores (Free)

B: Refund their points (Already is a thing) 

 

[Circle_of_Psi]

17 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

The biggest systemic change with Focus will address pool capacity costs. Focus points are still collected into five separate trees, but all will now have a shared pool capacity - this means you can upgrade your pool size using the points from any school you wish, which increases the maximum capacity for every school all at once!

Onto topic: Can someone please point me out to what exactly this means? (Yes, I can read, but Connor didn't exactly relocate on what he means), there are 2 things that I think this means.

A: We can still farm focus as normal, but any points we get can be pooled into any school we wish and desire. (Regardless of lens), Trees still exist, but any points collected can be freely placed into any school, not ones that we only have "required" 

B: Shared Pool: The "cap" of how much each "Rank costs" (that you need a bigger pool, to active them) is shared, rather than one big school of points.

[Zahnny]

I think we need a Lens Distiller

[Bibliothekar]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb [DE]Connor:

Unairu:
-Stone Skin (adds flat armor, 60 for both warframe and operator at max)

So how much base armor does the operator have?

[Bibliothekar]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Circle_of_Psi:

Onto topic: Can someone please point me out to what exactly this means?

Focus you collect still goes into the schools according to the lenses you have on your gear. Only the pool for way points (i.e. the points you need to activate new and higher levels of Focus abilities) works for all schools now. At the moment, all schools start with 5 points, but over time you might have 20 points in Vazarin, 13 in Zenurik and so on. With Focus 2.5, all schools will always have the same amount. So when you increase your pool for Vazarin to increase your rank of Mending Unity, it increases the capacity for all schools. If you don't have enough Vazarin points to increase your pool and rank up the ability, you could use Unairu points to increase your capacity instead.

Hope that makes sense.

[Kinetos]

So Naramon still lacks any nodes useful for the Teralyst that are unique to itself and not waybound?

What about having its nodes affect both Warframe melee and Operator amps? 

[MikuBlade]

What if for every 5 specific Focus points we got 1 Universal Focus point? I.E. You've got 1000 Focus to Vasarin and you would get additional 200 points to Universal focus points pool which you can then use to rank up any focus tree you like? Maybe 1 for every 10 then? Or it will hurt much?

[Stonehenge]

il y a une heure, Arkhenbarn a dit :

No change for Naramon ? I'm a bit surprised actually. The Void Dash branch is basically useless. As mentioned by some before me, the opening to finishers is too short to be useable and to make up for the points spent into it. I can't speak for the other schools, as I didn't test them thoroughly.

However, I have only one request that really matters to me : DO NOT KEEP CONVERGENCE !
You talk about "change of pacing", we see "annoyance for everyone". It's been said countless times : not only does ruin the experience as players, it hinders teamplay in squads. It goes against the very base of the game : cooperative PvE. Just increase the gains to begin with to make up for its removal, that would be a good beginning.

[SaNSUICI]

18 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

Lenses will not be refunded this time around.

Without refund, we need distiller or upgrade system on already installed lens.
What we have to do with greater lens already installed? We need to destroy them if we want Eidolon lens? no sense

[Airwolfen]

18 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

-Lightning Dash (costs 10 energy per cast)

Could this get a second look? it really hurts its usability as a travel tool.

[-EGT-Helix-]

My 2 cents....

If i install a secound lens on a weapon or frame, the old one dont should overwrite!

I want a radial menu for the installed lenses in the arsenal, than I can choose witch lens should be active for the next mission.

[Einsig_SV]

@[DE]Connor

The Unairu changes don't affect anything. Normal forms of damage reflection are useless against enemies above level 20 because their health and armor start to drastically outstrip the damage they deal. Unless Unairu reflects in the area of 2000% or more, it will not even harm most enemies at a sortie level. This is why nobody uses any reflect abilities or mods. They don't do anything. They don't hurt anything. Only Octavia has a "reflect" power that isn't terrible.

 

[TBone142]

1 hour ago, Arkhenbarn said:

As mentioned by some before me, the opening to finishers is too short to be useable and to make up for the points spent into it.

I'm using Naramon as my primary with a Savage Silence Banshee build, and Void Dash's opening to finishers doesn't have a timer. I use it all the time on big groups of enemies, and never had a problem executing 20-30 of them 1by1.

My only concern about Naramon would be the Void Hunter node, as it starts to charge every time from 0% when I enter Void mode again. Would be much better if it just start charging from whatever % it is at when I enter void mode again after exiting it.

[SanguineSavant]

Lenses aren't being refunded but current focus point investments are, correct?

[Arisu]

Here's an idea for a convergence orb replacement. 

The idea is concocted keeping 2 assumptions in mind. So if it happens that either of these assumptions was incorrect, the idea can fall flat. 
1) The system should reward players for using the operator the way it's intended.
2) The intention is to switch to operator regularly, but for relatively short periods of time. 

So the idea is to start off getting the amount of focus you'd get with convergence active. After a while this (let's call it, convergence pool) would decrease until it reaches non-convergence numbers. Operator mode would also work in this way. However the warframe and operator each have their own convergence pool. And these pools replenish when the other is being used up. So to keep up the convergence pools, you will have to keep switching. Kinda like tug of war, but you have to keep the rope in the middle. 

There are some issues of course. It requires both the operator and warframe to be able to get focus. If either one is unable to do so efficiently, either due to not having a lens or due to not being useful enough, the other one won't really have its pool replenished. I can see this happening especially with fresh operators during higher level content. Operators would also need a gilded amp to put a lens on, which can take quite a while to get as well. 

[(XBOX)Filly Second]

So will you take our installed lens? Do I have to build my Eidolon lens all over again?

 

[[DE]Connor]

19 hours ago, [DE]Connor said:

[SNIP]

 

EDIT: Going to try clarifying some of the more common questions and misunderstandings:
-Brilliant Eidolon Shard will be part of the refund. Shards invested in waybounds will be returned as items, while shards that have been turned into Focus points will be refunded as points.
-When I said "no lens refund", I was referring to what we did with Focus 2.0, where lenses were pulled out of your weapons to redistribute as you please. With Focus 2.5, players will still keep their lenses, they will just remain installed on your weapons.
-Waybound nodes are not subject to the cost reduction.
-New unified pool capacity will not be an increase in any way. If you spend enough points to get your pool size up to 20 points, you will be able to use 20 points worth of abilities in Zenurik, 20 in Naramon, etc etc.

Morning guys! I tried my best to clear up some misunderstandings I saw in the first half of the responses, will get through the rest today :)

[WMan22]

I have a question: Why does UPGRADING a node increase energy costs rather than decreasing them? Seems to discourage leveling them up and makes no sense, I mean, like, a low level node should be harder and more inconvenient to use not easier and more convenient to use.

Yeah, the effect is better at higher levels but that doesn't matter much when you can use them less than if you never upgraded a node. You can band aid it with Zenurik's way bound abilities but it seems to make no sense either way.

Honestly so many issues with focus could be solved by allowing you to increase or decrease the effect of a node and put your points somewhere else, like swapping out a build of sorts, kinda like how I have a version of certain mods for every rank so that I can fit them onto builds where mod capacity isn't as plentiful.

So say that you have enough focus nodes in void spines in Unairu to max it out, well you can decrease the power of that and put them elsewhere for a more crippling dash oriented build instead of just flipping a light switch on other abilities completely to make room for it. as per usual, you can still eventually get enough focus to rank everything, but adjust node usage for un-waybounded abilities in the meantime while you wait to get more focus to eventually use all of it.