Dev Workshop: The Features of Focus 2.5

[Aleksi134]

1 hour ago, K4r4k4s4 said:

Naramon and Zenurik are still trash. Fun still not allowed. Waiting for Focus 3.0

I mean if we really go about it, all the focus trees are trash when it comes to buffing the operator up. My gun with my warframe can kill 150 level enemies, while my operator can barely kill level 30 enemies and thats with the best amp and some focus unlocked which usually doesnt actually affect damage done.

[Harestation]

Hi,

I think i misunderstood what i heard at some point (especially seeing the universal capacity pool). Didn't you intent to have only one focus pool with the transformation of all school specific lenses to universal ones ?

If not, will there be a way similar to the arcane distiller to take back a lens from an item at some point ?

Thanks.

[Kinetos]

2 minutes ago, Harestation said:

Hi,

I think i misunderstood what i heard at some point (especially seeing the universal capacity pool). Didn't you intent to have only one focus pool with the transformation of all school specific lenses to universal ones ?

If not, will there be a way similar to the arcane distiller to take back a lens from an item at some point ?

Thanks.

1, no they never intended that. It's a little confusing with similar terminology, but we got exactly what they said we were getting. 

2, I'd really like this too. Pretty soon I will have no need for Vazarin lenses, and I don't really need Naramon either, but I don't want to overwrite my Eidolon Naramon lens on my Zaw. So what am I supposed to do, build 4 more identical zaws? And without them, if you want focus, you are locked in to lensed items, and if you want to have a diverse experience, you either spend a fortune on lenses or give up on focus. 

[DiabolusUrsus]

3 hours ago, K4r4k4s4 said:

Naramon and Zenurik are still trash. Fun still not allowed. Waiting for Focus 3.0

Not saying they're perfect, but on-demand quick-melee finishers and on-demand energy seem fairly useful in practice.

[leadwolf1]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 4:06 PM, DrBorris said:

Gotta agree here, Focus should not be a system of tradeoffs because it is supposed to be an upwards progression system. If someone ever decides to not rank up a node because it will harm their playstyle, there is an issue. And tying that extra energy drain onto Void Dash is probably the worst possible option as anyone who has invested heavily into Focus 2.0 with the aim of improved mobility (Void Flow + Mind Sprint) will steer far away from anything that will effectively decrease the effectiveness of Void Dash. An energy orb is nice, but at the cost of less movement? Hell no.

 

And on another note, could you take a second look at how Madurai interacts with your Warframe? Most of the other schools have interesting synergies between Operator and Warframe abilities, but Madurai is heavily focused on your Operator doing damage (which is basically nothing compared to a Warframe).

In addition Unairu's Sundering Dash being capped at 75% armor reduction is pretty underwhelming given that other options in the game (including an Aura that requires no gameplay) can completely strip armor. It is basically just a single corrosive proc... and there are weapons that can do countless corrosive procs per second. Would stripping 100% armor at max rank really be that powerful?

One more note on Unairu, even reflecting 100% damage is... well... worthless, given how little damage enemies do. Maybe have it also reflect status procs to give it some utility?

you all know how players were using the focus schools before the changes, so to improve the usage of these schools you should have stayed on those lines and did a combination from there, to incorporate the Operator was fine but do not make another game inside the game. I would hate to see this turn into operator play when it is warframe. Just keep the balance please. you took away the going into stealth, you kept the energy at the cost of going into operator, I know it is your right as the game makers to do what you want , schools really do not give any benefit to the warframe any longer it seems it is totally on the operator now. so then the question is when are you fazing the warframes out for it seems to be going in that direction.

[Kinetos]

39 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Not saying they're perfect, but on-demand quick-melee finishers and on-demand energy seem fairly useful in practice.

Idk about what the other guy's opinion of Naramon is, but here's mine:

Excellent melee buffs useful pretty much everywhere. 

But against Teralyst? Might as well not be using a school at all. The only nodes that will help are the waybounds which can be used in any other tree, none of which are 100% useless vs Teralyst. 

[ptilulu83]

@[DE]Connorwhy are you adding an energy cost on some tenno ability ? 

i mean for me the focus three is now like an upgrade of your tenno (i hope it's the actual goal)

but when i see that to add an effect on my void ( dash / blast / mode ) it cost me more energy per cast or per second i feel more like it's a direct dowgrade of the base ability to add something that can be great but look futile when you compare to the cost of energy and every down side it mean

take void radiance for example (it's work with every "actif" that make your ability cost more energy)

at rank 0 void radiance consume 25 energy every time i leave void mode to blind nearby ennemy (4m / 2s) 

it means every time i'll leave void mode i'll lost 25 energy even if i don't want to blind enemy or there is no enemy within 4m

and the worst thing is if i upgrade that node leaving void mode will consume more and more energy (up to 50 for 10m and 5s) with no way to go back to the 25 for 4m and 2s (same goes for every node that when upgraded increase the energy cost per cast / per seconds)

[Kinetos]

7 minutes ago, ptilulu83 said:

and the worst thing is if i upgrade that node leaving void mode will consume more and more energy (up to 50 for 10m and 5s) with no way to go back to the 25 for 4m and 2s (same goes for every node that when upgraded increase the energy cost per cast / per seconds)

Exactly why I'm never going to touch any focus node that trades an increase for a decrease. Underclocking is absolutely necessary, and would be great for mods to have it built in too, but at least mods mostly have a workaround in duplicates. Focus nodes do not. 

[DiabolusUrsus]

35 minutes ago, Kinetos said:

Idk about what the other guy's opinion of Naramon is, but here's mine:

Excellent melee buffs useful pretty much everywhere. 

But against Teralyst? Might as well not be using a school at all. The only nodes that will help are the waybounds which can be used in any other tree, none of which are 100% useless vs Teralyst. 

Oh, I agree. I still don't think a niche drawback is enough to make an entire school "trash," though.

I really hope DE expands the viability of melee against large/boss enemies.

[Tsunero]

GG, you just made Unariu worse than it's 1.0 iteration. Why are you doing this to us?

While low armor frames benefit a bit (aka it's still super worthless to them) from flat armor it's trash for high armor ones now.

Damage reflect is downright laughable and broken, someone did the maths and even if it was 1000% it would still be trash. It's pointless when it reflects the actual damage of the enemies but does not consider their hundreds of thousands of EHP which in turn makes this whole ability not even worth equipping, it's THAT bad.

 

[(PSN)Quil_Nye]

so... when is this update coming?   i am excited for it.

[Grisznaker]

On 5.12.2017 at 9:42 PM, [DE]Connor said:

Zenurik:
-Void Singularity (doubled pull speed)
-Lightning Dash (costs 10 energy per cast)

Why it costs 10 energy? Dayum! I having so much fun with that bonus traveling on Plains. Now it looks like i should turn off Lightning Dash at my school because this limits my travel length. In my opinion this is f***ing bad idea DE. Please reverse it. Belive me. There is nothing wrong with reversing bad decisions.

[SpeedRulerLiberation]

12 hours ago, SpeedRulerLiberation said:

I just want to know. do you still need focus on the other trees to unlock that tree. I currently have focus on unairu only and I want to know if I need to still grind the focus to unlock it or can i use the unairu focus to unlock it. Pls respond. thanks you guys

Guys, I really need some confirmation in regards to this. I want to unlock the other focus trees and I am getting confused with the system, your help will really be appreciated.

[magicalfeyfenny]

28 minutes ago, SpeedRulerLiberation said:

Guys, I really need some confirmation in regards to this. I want to unlock the other focus trees and I am getting confused with the system, your help will really be appreciated.

You need focus in a tree you don't have focus in to unlock that tree and its abilities. If you were to find a Naramon lens, you'd have to equip that lens to get the focus to unlock that tree and to unlock its abilities

 

The new system simply made focus pool universal (any tree's focus can be used to build it up, and your cost is your current primary + unbound waybounds)

[Fabio000]

I need help, I've unlocked Energizing Dash again and I can not activate it, but can you help me with this? here is a print

[Atreides.]

Void stalker is usless, it decays too fast, its better off just being a multiplicative/additive buff TBH.

[Azamagon]

1 hour ago, Fabio000 said:

I need help, I've unlocked Energizing Dash again and I can not activate it, but can you help me with this? here is a print

I think you need more "grupo" :)

[scourge213]

On 12/5/2017 at 10:42 PM, [DE]Connor said:

-Lightning Dash (costs 10 energy per cast)

 

Why was this decided? Focus 2.X was supposed to improve the 1.0 focus system. This kind of change makes Focus 2.5 degrade 2.0 back to 1.0. This change is exact copy of the problem that 1.0 had - skills were not useful due the penalties.

Please DE, do not continue with this kind of changes. Or if you do, at least buff the skill actually powerful enough to be worth the penalty.

Honestly i would personally prefer if dash was exaggeratedly nerfed to 100damage over 5m in max one target(instead of all) and a maximum of 1 ball(instead of max 3) than to have a penalty that makes it to be completely turned off.

[JeyciKon]

5 hours ago, Fabio000 said:

I need help, I've unlocked Energizing Dash again and I can not activate it, but can you help me with this? here is a print

click on its icon so it becomes red like the others. or is that the thing ou cannot do?

[Harestation]

Le 08/12/2017 à 18:02, Kinetos a dit :

1, no they never intended that. It's a little confusing with similar terminology, but we got exactly what they said we were getting. 

2, I'd really like this too. Pretty soon I will have no need for Vazarin lenses, and I don't really need Naramon either, but I don't want to overwrite my Eidolon Naramon lens on my Zaw. So what am I supposed to do, build 4 more identical zaws? And without them, if you want focus, you are locked in to lensed items, and if you want to have a diverse experience, you either spend a fortune on lenses or give up on focus. 

Thanks for the answer. Indeed, and since i'm not a native english speaker, neither do i have the habit to hear english discussions, without subtitles i can easily misunderstand something.

[Sleepdebt]

11 hours ago, Harestation said:

Thanks for the answer. Indeed, and since i'm not a native english speaker, neither do i have the habit to hear english discussions, without subtitles i can easily misunderstand something.

I misunderstood what they said too and been speaking english my whole life.  I don't think it was very clear when they said it in dev stream, all I remember is something about one focus pool instead of 5 different.  I'm sure it was probably clarified what they meant later, but I only watched the dev stream.

While the one way pool capacity is nice, I was really disappointed that we still have the 5 different pools for focus points.  In my opinion being forced to play certain frames/weapons to farm focus for a pool is the worst part of the whole system.

[Circle_of_Psi]

2 hours ago, Sleepdebt said:

I misunderstood what they said too and been speaking english my whole life.  I don't think it was very clear when they said it in dev stream, all I remember is something about one focus pool instead of 5 different.  I'm sure it was probably clarified what they meant later, but I only watched the dev stream.

While the one way pool capacity is nice, I was really disappointed that we still have the 5 different pools for focus points.  In my opinion being forced to play certain frames/weapons to farm focus for a pool is the worst part of the whole system.

This ^

 

Still, they give us the massive grind, WE DON'T NEED 5 schools for per focus points, we need ONE school, for ALL points. On top of that, the removal of the Cap, as well, with the removal of the glowing orb, we need to painfully farm for.

 

And its still not in-game yet and I see no replies from DE, yet with the feedback, they already got here and even with the feedback, its unchanged, only "its a good step"

[KennBone]

3 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Still, they give us the massive grind, WE DON'T NEED 5 schools for per focus points, we need ONE school, for ALL points. On top of that, the removal of the Cap, as well, with the removal of the glowing orb, we need to painfully farm for.

This ! a huge focus systems with all inside sound more fair alot of ppl asking for this long time.

[JeyciKon]

4 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

the removal of the Cap, as well, with the removal of the glowing orb

 

obviously DE would like to do that, telling them to do what they already want to do is pointless, the cap and the orb are in the game for a reason, and many players, just like me, understand the reason for it.  If you want them removed do not just say so, suggest an alternative that actually works.

[(XBOX)Kavriel]

*Replace the orb with an eximus that boosts other enemies but grants focus.

-or-

*Add a bar to the hud that builds with 'lens' kills, when full tap 5 to activate the orb countdown.

-or-

*Remove orbs entirely and base focus multiplier on tenno affinity.

 

+

 

*Remove focus lenses entirely and have the active school determine what you gain focus for from everything max level, with waybounds to increase rate of gain.

-or-

*Make all focus lenses blank, gaining focus to a universal pool that can be spent in any tree.

-or-

*Make focus lenses drop blank (preferably as an item not bp) and must be forma'd to the school of your choice to be equipped.

 

Any of these could address complaints while keeping in spirit with the original design.

+ Lens distiller, ffs, even if we have to do a special job for Onnko. He needs a quest anyway.