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Please nerf or remove Ember already...

Glavenusaur

By Glavenusaur,
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phoenix1992

phoenix1992

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Posted
Just now, Nirrel said:

I certainly do comprehend better that there is a big difference push a button and then aim to something and move around repeating the task than just push one button and move around or just blatanly afk on an objective to defend.


Which we both know is a hyperbole, because a flat stock Ember can never do that - stock WoF has way too big starting cost and drain for a 100% or 130% eff, while the same Ember can't use most energy regain effects and has to relly on pick ups - which kinda does not fit the "stay afk on top of the objective" does it? 

Ember with primed or corrupted mods can, but such kind of player, but hey - If I forma any frame 2+ times, people like OP can bite me.

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Tatann

Tatann

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il y a 2 minutes, Nirrel a dit :

You said well. This should be a cooperative game. Now tell me how ppl "cooperate" with ember. Walking behind?

I certainly do comprehend better that there is a big difference push a button and then aim to something and move around repeating the task than just push one button and move around or just blatanly afk on an objective to defend.

They cooperate by healing her, taking aggro, killing strong enemies. Some will outperform her greatly at killing, maybe you don't know that yet.

If you need to be the first to exist, it's another issue.

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Mudfam

Mudfam

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8 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

Lol.

You are literary a person that can not comprehend that the difference between pressing 4 and walking or spamming E (or holding fire) while walking is only one thing - personal preference. 

Or not - Please do tell me how much skills are needed for mashing E or holding the Fire button. 

I cannot believe you're actually arguing that mass untargeted AoE damage that just moves with you is in any way comparable to some of the most active frames / playstyles in the game.

It's not a question of power, it's matter of like... Actually playing the game at all lol. Having to like aim at enemies and attack, be aware of their positions and generally pay just a little attention to what is happening.

At the levels where Ember is effective she just completely and utterly disables all gameplay, not just for herself, but for everyone else too. While others have to actually pick targets to kill, giving room for other players to pick different targets, embers just run ahead passively killing everything in a massive AoE without even having to be aware of their existence. At most 1 or 2 enemies who somehow escaped the giant field of death may be left behind for the rest of the squad to clean up after them.

In my many years of gaming I've never come across anything that comes close to being so unfathomably lame, lazy and dull as ember's WoF.

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Neptlude

Neptlude

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1 hour ago, (PS4)s3d_sas said:

Lol are u serious ? It's not even that powerful dmg

just solo your missions

Thats the worst advice ever. Ember players should be the one soloing mission since they can solo most mission in star chart already....

Dont remove her or nerf her, just rework her.

 

 

 

 

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Glavenusaur

Glavenusaur

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14 minutes ago, (PS4)LovesLost13 said:

Ok. I will a actually go in on one of your points... remove ember... really? What about those who put time and even real money into her? how are you to compensate that? for the prime version (atleast on console) people easily pay other players 600 to sometimes 800 plat. are you gonna pay them back? not to mention resouces ( forma reactors). And don't say oh just give them 1000 plat. great not you just ruined or atleast did a big number to the economy of warframe. soooooo nice thought. Now onto your point of nerfing her. Oh great. make her only thing which is early game take it away.. oh my.. now I know I will never see her past level 30. She is a good frame and is good at what she does. Which is crowd control. If you somehow can't kill them and for some reason depend on Ember. In the End kills mean nothing I could kill 1000 enemies. doesn't matter. All that matters is resources (which at MR8 ) should be one of the most important things. So its easier to hit late game. Hell I wish I had an Ember when I was a lower rank. 

Her being "useless" after level 30 doesn't take away from the fact that she is far too "OP" during any of the nodes before, as for claiming "All that matters is resources" understand please that you are only speaking for yourself in this regard, not everyone plays the game just for the sake resources, i actually play it because believe it or not, i genuinely enjoy the game play, to the point that getting through tough missions with complete strangers by the skin of our teeth is an immense adrenaline rush.

As for her getting removed, i'm sorry but I stick by that point, at least to the extent of the developers simply not allowing her in games below the lvl 30 cap, as important as resources are in this game, there is no point in getting them if the game itself isn't fun to play with, and i can assure you being carried by an "ember" is not fun, at least not for me.

If its all the same with you, lets try and keep our discussions a little less prone to toxicity, would be better for the both of us, i'm sure.

 

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Kagee

Kagee

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Look at my profile pic, so just you know^^

I'm playing Warframe since 2013, and Ember was my favorite Warframe from the beginning (combined with ash).
I've played my Ember(Prime) many many hours, and my Warframe with the most Forma-Stars by far. So you see I really love to play Ember. But in my Clan I'm the only one playing Ember regularly. It depends on, what you like to play. I like the fire and the synergies between the passive and all that fire damage weapons.

Yes, Ember can do low level exterminates just by running through it. And I like it (whether I'm Ember or not) because: Mission done is Mission done!
In higher levels it's getting complicated. But, for example, teaming up with Nova, Frost & Trinity, buffing your teammates fire damage with your 2 and burn everything...
IMHO, that's awesome!

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(PSN)Voidkraken

(PSN)Voidkraken

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1 hour ago, Glavenusaur said:

I'm dead serious, i cant speak for end game content, as im only an MR8 who just completed saturn, but whenever she comes into a game i just know how it will end, with an ember being at the top of the board by leagues simply because of her "sprint to win" ability.

I think this highlights a key misunderstanding.  There are (up to) four players co-operating here to complete a mission.  Success is literally all that matters - not who dealt the most damage, or who got the most kills, or for that matter who did least - that info is there because games often have it, does it really matter if someone else does the heavy lifting, when you walk out of that mission with the same rewards and success of the mission?  Why is it bad when - if you need to repeat missions so much to get resources or Focus or the like - some adopt methods which make it faster and more time efficient for all involved?

If the issue is truly about "boredom" rather than "winning", some random ideas:

  • Ember only has so much range, and cannot be everywhere at once even on small maps. Be elsewhere with knives and guns and sticks.
  • Other frames have AoE abilities too, try them out. For example:
    • Banshee + Resonating Quake + plenty of energy and efficiency = mobs die without even leaving their rooms. Chase that, Ember.
    • Equinox (day) + Main & Mend = Brain aneurysms for everybody! 
  • Switch to a support frame of some kind, and try actively helping that player - you have something to "do" then
    • Nekros Desecrate = more drops. Follow Ember, produce double the loot, everyone walks away happy
    • Trinity Energy Vampire = actively produce energy or health for your allies and self. Nobody dies, you're a hero.
  • Dance like everyone else is doing all the hard work (and occasionally walk about collecting the loot)

I would encourage you to think of Ember more as a "farming frame" than a problem - she serves a purpose, a means to an end and you can benefit from that means as well if you stop focusing on "winning". To reiterate my above point because I feel it's really important in a PvE environment - if the mission is a success and you get the same loot (which you do, if you're collecting it), it really doesn't matter if someone else got more kills/points/trophies/kudos/applause, does it?

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Glavenusaur

Glavenusaur

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16 minutes ago, Tatann said:

OP needs to understand it's a coop game, not a competitive game, and that in "RPGs" there are almost always tank, support and DPS

It's like playing with Equinox and complaining that Trinity is "getting all the heals", or complaining that Valkyr took 90% of the damage

"OMG Nyx! Stop CCing all the enemies, it's not fair"

Emphasis on the term "CO-OP" as whenever she gets in the game instead of feeling like someone who is co-operating with every-one else, she makes me feel like a complete leech and the worst part is at the level im at now, i cant do anything about it except quit... so yeah, i hope that clarifies my stance a little more.

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Nirrel

Nirrel

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6 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:


Which we both know is a hyperbole, because a flat stock Ember can never do that - stock WoF has way too big starting cost and drain for a 100% or 130% eff, while the same Ember can't use most energy regain effects and has to relly on pick ups - which kinda does not fit the "stay afk on top of the objective" does it? 

Ember with primed or corrupted mods can, but such kind of player, but hey - If I forma any frame 2+ times, people like OP can bite me.

That's irrelevant. The problem here is that every invasion and every fissure up to axi is a joke and not because brad new players go there with an unmodded frame but because mid and high lvl players go there as well with all their mod power.

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(PSN)drpunk-yo

(PSN)drpunk-yo

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2 minutes ago, Nirrel said:

That's irrelevant. The problem here is that every invasion and every fissure up to axi is a joke and not because brad new players go there with an unmodded frame but because mid and high lvl players go there as well with all their mod power.

Why is it a problem?

If you wanna unlock one relic an hour play solo and walk the map.

Edited by (PS4)drpunk-yo
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(PSN)LovesLost13

(PSN)LovesLost13

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2 minutes ago, Glavenusaur said:

Her being "useless" after level 30 doesn't take away from the fact that she is far too "OP" during any of the nodes before, as for claiming "All that matters is resources" understand please that you are only speaking for yourself in this regard, not everyone plays the game just for the sake resources, i actually play it because believe it or not, i genuinely enjoy the game play, to the point that getting through tough missions with complete strangers by the skin of our teeth is an immense adrenaline rush.

As for her getting removed, i'm sorry but I stick by that point, at least to the extent of the developers simply not allowing her in games below the lvl 30 cap, as important as resources are in this game, there is no point in getting them if the game itself isn't fun to play with, and i can assure you being carried by an "ember" is not fun, at least not for me.

If its all the same with you, lets try and keep our discussions a little less prone to toxicity, would be better for the both of us, i'm sure.

 

I wasn't toxic in the least. I was just explaining what would happen. You nerf her. Now she will become lost and forgotten on her own. Cause thats all she really has going for her. And another. I said resources should be the most important thing. Don't bring fun into it cause Fun is very subjective. The game is a grind and to do the fun things you must grind the resources. But you know what is a constant and isn't subjective cause of how important it is. Resources. I have fun trying new warframes and weapons. You need resources. Anyways. I get why it would be displeasing to have an ember. You want to do the killing and maiming. Go solo or use recruit chat. Simple. done. Take you at most a minute. I am sorry but thats how it is. For farming people find it boring and a slog to get through So we get the most efficient tactics there are so its quick and easy. No work. This is how humans are. We find the easiest ways to do things and stick with it. I personally never owned an Ember But i know how she works very well. I have been plenty of time doing nothing as Ember burns everything. But that is her job. And if I don't want to see an Ember.. i could leave. find a different match. Or even just even. Actually play anf i bet you I will come out on top of any Ember at any level with any frame.

 

Another advice if your doing a defense and your really caring so much. Check their range see how far it goes and be on edge of it so you have something to do. Tight places are obviously harder to do. But. its a thing.

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PhotriusPyrelus

PhotriusPyrelus

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Just now, (PS4)drpunk-yo said:

Why is it a problem?

If you wanna unlock one relic an hour play solo.

Lul.  Because a WoF ember in content where she's creating the 'problem' the OP's talking about is just so awesome for unlocking relics.  Do you understand how reactant works?  You kill stuff before it gets corrupted, you get no reactant.

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Glavenusaur

Glavenusaur

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6 minutes ago, Kagee said:

Look at my profile pic, so just you know^^

I'm playing Warframe since 2013, and Ember was my favorite Warframe from the beginning (combined with ash).
I've played my Ember(Prime) many many hours, and my Warframe with the most Forma-Stars by far. So you see I really love to play Ember. But in my Clan I'm the only one playing Ember regularly. It depends on, what you like to play. I like the fire and the synergies between the passive and all that fire damage weapons.

Yes, Ember can do low level exterminates just by running through it. And I like it (whether I'm Ember or not) because: Mission done is Mission done!
In higher levels it's getting complicated. But, for example, teaming up with Nova, Frost & Trinity, buffing your teammates fire damage with your 2 and burn everything...
IMHO, that's awesome!

Im glad that you like, and don't want to take that away from you, but please understand at lower levels like where i am, your literally just making us stand there with our fingers up our A$$ and thumbs in our mouths. Especially when some new players have barely in the game long enough to understand how the resource system even works, let alone care about completing the game by any means necessary as quick as possible. I hope you can at least understand my point of view.

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phoenix1992

phoenix1992

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15 minutes ago, Mudfam said:

I cannot believe you're actually arguing that mass untargeted AoE damage that just moves with you is in any way comparable to some of the most active frames / playstyles in the game.

It's not a question of power, it's matter of like... Actually playing the game at all lol. Having to like aim at enemies and attack, be aware of their positions and generally pay just a little attention to what is happening.

At the levels where Ember is effective she just completely and utterly disables all gameplay, not just for herself, but for everyone else too. While others have to actually pick targets to kill, giving room for other players to pick different targets, embers just run ahead passively killing everything in a massive AoE without even having to be aware of their existence. At most 1 or 2 enemies who somehow escaped the giant field of death may be left behind for the rest of the squad to clean up after them.

In my many years of gaming I've never come across anything that comes close to being so unfathomably lame, lazy and dull as ember's WoF.


I can't believe that people are such hypocrites.

The is frame that does the same but better (Equinox),  there are abilities that require as much "skill" but have better result and there are things that are a lot worse than WoF.  I want you to also tell me how much skills you put in waving Orthos Prime or Atterax? 

Keep on using the same hyperbolic arguments while cherry picking whenever you feel like it.  And while you are on the crusade to comment how much "your level 30 enemies die from Ember in the vicinity" I will stay in perma invisibility and mooch from my team mates in sorties, use Sound quake in Deffences,  Limbo and the rest in any objective among other examples in which frames wreck the game a lot worse (or god forbid if we talk about weapons).

But hey, it is more easy to nerf a nerf a frame than raise our personal standards in the game.

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Nirrel

Nirrel

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11 minutes ago, Tatann said:

They cooperate by healing her, taking aggro, killing strong enemies. Some will outperform her greatly at killing, maybe you don't know that yet.

If you need to be the first to exist, it's another issue.

I don't know if you noticed but the problem is that on those low level missions there are no enemies at all normally in line of sight. I do know how ember works and stopped playing her because I myself got bored of the fact that I didn't see an enemy on the map.

 

3 minutes ago, (PS4)drpunk-yo said:

 

Why is it a problem?

If you wanna unlock one relic an hour play solo and walk the map.

You missed the point. In reality you don't complete the mission mush faster at all. With four ppl clearing you will take about the same time at the most 30 seconds more. Not a problem of damage either.People doesn't complain because ember outdamage them. The problem is that with Wof once up the rest of the squad cannot play the game in the meantime because there is nothing for them left to shoot apart from a couple mobs left behind. It's fustrating and boring.

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(PSN)Silverback73

(PSN)Silverback73

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Glavenusaur said:

Hello All,

I have only been playing the game for a short while but have started to get frustrated as to how easy an ember in a team just takes care of everything, playing defence matches in public is no longer as enjoyable as she just kills everything simply because she runs around the map, while the rest of us are just left there sitting on our A$$es fiddling with our ba!!$! Im sure we can at least agree that ability of hers is a little too much no?

No.  She levels out, so no change needed.  She's fantastic for the Plague Star event as a team player.

She just steals the "fun" from new players.

  True, considerate veterans will actually ask a lower-level PUG team if they want WOF activated.  I do.

The flip side is that you get what you get in a PUG.  Go clan.

Thanks.

 

 

 

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Midrib

Midrib

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Is Ember's WoF extremely uninteractive, brainless and needs to be looked at? Yes.

Is Ember's WoF Overpowered and needs to be nerfed? No.

If you want to come down on Ember about how effortless and badly designed her ultimate is, I would 100% agree but when you bring up her balance to question thats where you lose me.

Anything at level 30 is powerful even abilities that aren't designed to do a lot of damage still seem op at that level, most weapons will essentially 1 shot level 30 enemies, they just have so little EHP that they die by anything. so saying X is op based on your experience that are just in these levels is unfair.

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Nirrel

Nirrel

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Posted
Just now, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

No.  She levels out, so no change needed.  She's fantastic for the Plague Star event as a team player.

She just steals the "fun" from new players.

  True, considerate veterans will actually ask a lower-level PUG team if they want WOF activated.  I do.

The flip side is that you get what you get in a PUG.  Go clan.

Thanks.

 

 

 

Wich is the worst thing one can do. Take away playing the game and learn how to play it from those new player not letting them play at all.

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