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Loot boxes and why I would be ok with them...


Glavenusaur
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On 12/9/2017 at 5:43 AM, Glavenusaur said:

Hello all,

I'm sure we have all heard about the recent fiasco in regards to how EA fumbled in regards to micro-transactions for one of their recent games, Star wars Battlefront 2. I, like most people to my knowledge, agree that pay to win mechanics should have no place in full priced AAA game. I can just about tolerate cosmetic only micro-transactions as it is.

But then what about a game like Warframe? Not only is it a free to play game, but one that really doesn't force you to pay a penny as i'm sure we all know. The truth of the matter however, is that micro-transactions (loot-boxes in particular) seem to be the way the game industry is heading, from what i have gathered (correct me if i'm wrong), game sales in general across all three platforms generated a total 8 billion dollars in revenue, where as the revenue generated from just micro-transactions and that too on PC alone generated around 19 billion dollars... In other words any game developer and/or publisher who doesn't include micro-transactions is literally saying no to free HUGE AMOUNTS of money,

I believe its only a matter of time till they enter Warframe, but if and when they do, I would actually be ok with it, as i trust the developers of this game as much as CD Project red in all honesty, and i'm sure if anyone will find the balance it's DE, would you however be ok with it?

The concept makes, almost, no sense here.

One lootbox for mods exists and that's about as much as is needed, tbh.

One could conceivably be added for Rivens.

...But it would reduce player engagement in sorties just to take plat out of the economy (and reduces the value of rivens overall which reduces their revenue)

So, any path they take with lootboxes in their current asset library costs them revenue immediately. 

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5 hours ago, TheErebus. said:

I do understand where the OP is coming from and imo lootboxes are fine as long as it's cosmetics only. However for WF, I feel like lootboxes would be a horrible idea. This thread is a prime example of how people would react to it.

No, slotmachines for cosmetics is also awful, I want none of that crap in this game.

 

On 12/9/2017 at 11:05 PM, Arlayn said:

That is what Prime Access is for I consider it my membership fee. Instead of paying for a membership fee for a pay to play game that doesn't make you feel accomplished at the end of the day for even spending $20. I can spend $130-150 and feel like I accomplished a lot LOL. Then find some new players, and spend a little of that plat from the prime access on them to help them out. Because I AM PARTY!

 

9 hours ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

We already pay for plat packs and Prime Access AND we make sure the game is given a good word around the industry. If that doesn't count as support then I don't know what does. 

Not to mention Tennocon or Tennogen, which is cash only. I just bought Tennogen and plat not even a whole month ago. The notion that there is nothing to give DE money for, is asinine. I wonder how he thinks the game has survived and grown over the past near 5 years that he thinks it needs casino slot machines. Steve pointed out in the very beginning that he does not want this game to turn into that and I expect the game to live up to this, its a big reason I had supported it for this long.

 

9 hours ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

I seriously don't understand why some people think that you can only support a developer by giving them money. 

 

Eh?  They obviously require money at some point, they are not like Epic(despite formerly working for them.) who can mostly ride off renting out their engine, letting them more easily subsidize some Free2Play endeavors without too much worry. DE just need to not be so predatory about the available in-app purchases and the in-game economy. Slotmachine focus is unsavory, and not required anyway.

Edited by UrielColtan
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I don't want gambling in my game.  The instant I see loot boxes in this game would be the instant I stop putting any more money into it.

If you want to get hung up on technicalities, I guess you could say loot boxes aren't technically gambling.  But this ignores the reasons why gambling is strictly regulated.  Those reasons are important and valid, and they very much apply to loot boxes.

As is always the case, laws and regulations tend to lag behind technology spaces, so the technical definition of gambling is naturally out-dated when it comes to many types of digital media.  But make no mistake, laws and regulations eventually catch-up.  I'm looking forward to it.

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Let's see...

No. Also no.

And how about no?

Warframe is one of the few free to play games I can play these days without feeling like I am being forced into funnelling money into some sort of slot machine system. The very fact you suggest the idea of lootboxes in Warframe makes me gag.

I would rather know what I am buying then throwing money into an overglorified slot machine. 

You want to support the devs? Buy platinum, go for Prime Access, buy the Tennogen skins. We don't need bloody lootboxes to show we can support the game.

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"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

You're looking at Digital Extremes, and by extension Warframe, the wrong way.  The outside gaming culture shouldn't influence DE, DE should be influencing the rest of the gaming culture!  Look at how people are revolting against EA's microtransactions, and Activision customers are revolting against Destiny 2.  These are games with a big initial sale, and then the playerbase leaves because they don't appreciate getting swindled.  I would seriously LOVE LOVE LOVE to see the profit margin of Warframe, because I think it's got to be HUGE.  Game Developers like EA and Activision Blizzard need Loot Boxes because they need to focus 100% on increasing sales as much as possible, in order to make their investors happy.  DE isn't a publicly traded company, and therefore they can focus on making a good game.  They can make the game they WANT to make, not a game that will make money.

That being said, DE makes a lot of money from Warframe.  Prime Access is a big infusion of cash every time, plus the constant plat sales.  There's no need to increase profit of Warframe anymore than it already is.  Any change could potentially upset us, the playerbase, and cause us to leave.  

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14 hours ago, UrielColtan said:

Eh?  They obviously require money at some point

Obviously developers require cash yes. What I meant is that supporting developers doesn't entirely revolve around throwing money at them. For example, if you can't afford to spend money on the game, you can instead make it your mission to spread the word of the game around the general gaming community. That counts as support does it not? It brings in new players and subsequently more cash. You can support the developers by simply putting in a good word for them.

Basically I'm saying the notion that cash is the only support we can give, is not true and developers do need more exposure and good publicity, not just cash.

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If I have the choice between paying directly for something I want or investing into lootboxes for a chance to get it I would always choose the direct option.

Thankfully Warframe does exactly that... with a litte help from the player-driven market and I hope it stays that way!

Edited by Zeranov
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On 12/9/2017 at 5:02 PM, Glavenusaur said:

EA is an case study of how NOT to implement micro-transactions, i'm glad they felt the burn after the stunt they tried to pull, putting pay to win mechanics in a full priced AAA game is NEVER ok. They failed cause of how they implemented micro-transactions, the methods they used. not because of micro-transactions themselves, Overwatch being a great example of how it's done.

And when you have figures like 19 billion dollars revenue made through micro-transactions alone and that too only on PC compared to the general sales of games THEMSELVES across all THREE platforms only making £8 billion (less than half)... as a business you would literally be saying no to bucket loads of cash literally for "FREE".

I'm just going to answer that, because you don't seem to understand :

Microtransactions do not equate lootboxes. Lootboxes are microtransactions, but they're not the only kind of microtransactions. The current model of warframe already revolves around microtransactions.

Those 19 billions you praise so much are not made with lootboxes only. All of warframe's revenue is already accounted in there.

On 12/9/2017 at 9:01 PM, aligatorno said:

I can never wrap my head around the people who actually advocate for loot boxes ... The indoctrination must be hard. 

What I quoted above explains it exactly : a lot of people, especially younger ones, have been led to believe that microtransactions = lootbox and only lootbox, and that without it a studio can't make enough money to survive / there is no way to release or access content.

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It's for threads like these, that I wish downvotes still existed.

Last time I checked, Warframe wasn't a mobile game. But rather an excellent example of what microtransactions should be, OPTIONAL and a GUARANTEE to get what you want. Get that random gambling stuff out of here.

Edited by AEP8FlyBoy
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Well,most of the money they make is off prime access,skins and things people want.

 

The point of a lootbox is to make a wall to people will pay more to get what they want,since they can not just outright get to It.

 

If the lootboxes where more like boarderlands lootboxes,where they are chest you open with randomized stuff. Then,maybe,in a different.

 

However,for warframe.the key fact they are not lootboxing and have a flat rate is the reason DE is making so much money.

 

Lets putting like this.

 

Word someone rather keep paying $5 to get a random part of a prime which can be a copy..Or pay $50 to get a prime frame,a melee,secondary, and a primary?

 

If you have the $5 and $50 people will call it a bait to force people to buy the $50

 

And having only the $5 would be considered a ripoff.

 

So, the flat $50 is fair.

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Warframe already have loot boxes.

Buy mod packs with plat.

Even there are other loot boxes contain warframe or weapons, its just not worth it

Because there is a market out there, and you can get specific mod for a way lower price.

Only if DE make it so that certain things only obtainable from boxes and trade prohibited.

but then I believe DE wont do it.

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You can buy mod packs with ducats, which they are not even worth. Farming specific mods from their specific location or even transfusing mods(latter of which I don't recommend.) are options and worth more of your time than those packs.

Edited by UrielColtan
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On 12/9/2017 at 10:46 AM, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

You know those little log-in rewards? 

That relic or resource you get when you log in to a brand new day of Warframe?

That's as close to a daily lootbox system as this game will EVER get.

"... you're a hero to these people... and to me!" (Quoting the leader of Steel Meridian)

tenor.gif?itemid=5879412

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Right but why would you tarnish your good reputation and balance for a buck that you are already getting anyway, not because players feel pressured but because they actually genuinely want to support your work? From a marketing perspective it makes zero sense. Other companies would prefer it that way as well, their problem is they don't know how to achieve that like DE has been able to. So why would DE?

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imagine using a loot box you paided 75 plat for and i contains the generalized loot from tennogen and daily login rewards minus the specials like the zenistar

You buy 10 so you pay 750 play in all you get maybe 20 denonite samples, 3000 nano spores, a orokin reactor, and a tennogen syandana that would come out around maybe 200 plat 

see when you put the numbers together i don't think i would want to pay 750 plat for something i could buy for 200 plat and farm in 30 secs. 

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