Limbo and the Mountains of Salt

[DeliciousDoob69]

So yeah, I was just brutally cussed out because I accidentally cast banish on one of my teammates while he was hacking. I play a negative range Limbo to try to avoid ever affecting my teammates with Limbo's powers. Hell most of the time I try not to even cast powers as Limbo for fear of being reprimanded by other players, I usually use banish once to banish rescue targets that's all. This is not the first time I have received very harsh words just for playing Limbo. I have had people immediately leave game just because they see a Limbo in squad. Almost every game I bring Limbo to someone has some really crappy things to say to me.

I know Limbo was just reworked, but DE could you please think about doing some QoL tweaks soon. This is one of the best conceptual frames IMO, but one of the worst executions. Is there anyway we could let people in the rift just get a damage reduction to incoming and outgoing damage, but still be able to interact with stuff. IDK just an idea. 

It's just weird to receive so much hate in such a friendly game.        

Edited December 21, 2017 by deliciousdoobmaster69

[PsiWarp]

I feel your baro ki tears. This is why I've adopted a low duration-build with either Rift Torrent or Haven (Limbo field medic), which can sorta turn Cataclysm into a nuke while making Banish and Stasis far less annoying.

[Psycho-002]

I think Limbo's great the way he is. I've always used him as an Area Denial frame myself, maximum range and duration.

When I come across other Limbos in non-Mobile Defense or Interception missions, the only reason I'll get snappy with them is if I see that they're actively making things difficult for the team. The occasional banish or misplaced Cataclysm is fine, misdirected ability casts happen all the time.

Personally, I always assume the Limbo doesn't know what he just did and message ingame about it, like the time I had one in a survival that Stasis'd and Banished the enemies we were trying to kill. I'd say the problem is more just players who insist on taking everything personally instead of communicating.

[Tokens210]

yea for me personally i dont mind limbo, only time i ever have limbo troubles is when a max range/duration limbo keeps freezing the entire level on a standard defense thats not a high level where the rounds arnt timed they take as long as it takes for you to kill the enemies

so where the limbo person will be like what they cant attack the point they seem to fail to grasp that they make rounds last probably 2-4x as long as they should cause we need to go find every enemy thats frozen and kill them for the next wave to spawn

ive seen people talking about limo trolls but i have only ever run into maybe 1 or 2 of those, while ive run into dozens of limbo's that are so on point with their powers i always imagine them saying, "Don't you worry my friend, i have trained for this moment, I Have Trained"  lol

Edited December 10, 2017 by Tokens210

[ACULonSeer]

16 minutes ago, Psycho-002 said:

I think Limbo's great the way he is. I've always used him as an Area Denial frame myself, maximum range and duration.

When I come across other Limbos in non-Mobile Defense or Interception missions, the only reason I'll get snappy with them is if I see that they're actively making things difficult for the team. The occasional banish or misplaced Cataclysm is fine, misdirected ability casts happen all the time.

Personally, I always assume the Limbo doesn't know what he just did and message ingame about it, like the time I had one in a survival that Stasis'd and Banished the enemies we were trying to kill. I'd say the problem is more just players who insist on taking everything personally instead of communicating.

Max range and duration, with current limbo, is literally THE most annoying combo imo XD

[Phobonaut]

34 minutes ago, ACULonSeer said:

Max range and duration, with current limbo, is literally THE most annoying combo imo XD

Just wait until you get in the endgame. You'll worship the ground of area denial Limbos.

[ACULonSeer]

Just now, Phobonaut said:

Just wait until you get in the endgame. You'll worship the ground of area denial Limbos.

I probably will, unless it blocks my rockets AGAIN

[DeliciousDoob69]

Obviously I like Limbo, I don't hate his kit, but if he's the only frame I get trash talk for then maybe he needs a change? It's about the community as a whole, and the whole community isn't into him being on their team. 

He seems like one of the only sources of toxicity in a pretty much toxic free game. That's one of the reasons I love warframe so much, it's how chill most of the players are. However when I play Limbo to his fullest potential all I get are people jeering at me. If I play Limbo like I usually do, as stated above, I don't feel like I'm doing much other than owning very small portions of the map and the occasional worry free reviving of players.     

[Phobonaut]

The crying and whining lessens as you rank up higher and higher, because the more MR people have, the more frames they're forced to learn, the more they understand how things work. Most Limbo qq'ing is because people are too dumb to learn how to roll or melee.

[Psycho-002]

35 minutes ago, ACULonSeer said:

Max range and duration, with current limbo, is literally THE most annoying combo imo XD

That's why I always only take him on missions that require area denial. It's like a 'You shall not pass' strat. You can lock down an entire spy vault and simultaneously destroy all the cameras by clapping your hands and taking off your hat.

An Area Denial build doesn't go well with a DPS party, because of the nature of his Stasis and Banishment, unless you have a Mesa, since most abilities can attack through the rift. And while most projectiles are frozen, you can melee things to death from within the rift.

Joke's on them, you can out damage a whole party by just clapping open and closing a cataclysm.

Just a tip, Banish works from inside a cataclysm too, so you can use it to both damage enemies in it, and strip them out of the rift if they were Rift Surged. Just cast Banish on a Surged enemy until they leave the rift.

[Tokens210]

8 minutes ago, deliciousdoobmaster69 said:

Obviously I like Limbo, I don't hate his kit, but if he's the only frame I get trash talk for then maybe he needs a change? It's about the community as a whole, and the whole community isn't into him being on their team. 

He seems like one of the only sources of toxicity in a pretty much toxic free game. That's one of the reasons I love warframe so much, it's how chill most of the players are. However when I play Limbo to his fullest potential all I get are people jeering at me. If I play Limbo like I usually do, as stated above, I don't feel like I'm doing much other than owning very small portions of the map and the occasional worry free reviving of players.     

oh ember gets her fair share of hate and its only about a single power world on fire

2 years ago before i stopped playing noone i ever tried playing with wanted a volt on their squad cause he was in the same boat he's in now where everyone including de said hes broken but there was no fix for him in site, back then de actually stated any rework on him was atleast 1 year away which killed the game for me as volt/volt prime was my only character at the time

Banshee gets hate for soundquake

mesa gets hate for peacemaker

 

funny thing is like someone mentioned above once you hit end game tier stuff people actually want them on the squad in some cases and their powers no longer seem super op but fairly on point

Edited December 10, 2017 by Tokens210

[DeliciousDoob69]

I'm MR 21, the only reason it's not higher is I stopped trying and decided I'd get around to again eventually. The game I was cursed at in today was a sortie mission. I've never seen any in game hate for high damage frames, I've only seen a little hate in the forums for these frames. However if I play Limbo for each of the 3 sortie missions I can guarantee I'm going to get at least one negative comment throughout the 3 missions. No matter the playstyle somebody will say something.

I as a player shouldn't have to endure any negative remarks for content that I obviously didn't create at any point in the game. High level or low level content it doesn't matter. I also don't think players should have to learn how Limbo works if they don't want to, it's their right to ignore parts of the game if they so choose. By playing Limbo though I'm forcing them to work around my current playstyle in a way. Remember I'm not really bashing on Limbo, he's kind of the CC King as of right now, but if it's causing hate then maybe it should get looked at you know?

[Tokens210]

15 minutes ago, deliciousdoobmaster69 said:

I also don't think players should have to learn how Limbo works if they don't want to

i can get behind this as ive been yelled at by limbo players that my akstilettos keep cancelling out one of their powers, maybe cataclysm, but its kinda a reflex for me lol if i turn and someones in my face their getting full akstiletto clip in the eyes till their no longer in my face lol

but i hardly play as limbo so i often forget, but theres other frames and such i believe also have that issue and were kinda expected to know them all i guess or eventually an elitist will give you his opinion on your playstyle lol

Edited December 10, 2017 by Tokens210

[AbstractLemons]

Limbo doesn't need massive changes more quality of life tweaks so that he is a bit less disruptive and updating visuals if they can manage or some ui additions to help educate players just what the heck is actually happening when Limbo is using his powers around them.

Stasis has no reason being up for more than a few seconds when playing with randos. I normally keepit it up for no more than 2 seconds then turn it off using as a means to either get out of trouble or to help the team recover or catch up in damage if say they manage to crowd around the cryopod and start beating on it.

[Edzhang]

Well if i see a limbo in a mission, as long as they dont mess with me (banish me when im about to hack), i’ll try to adapt with his play.. when he cast cataclysm, i’ll switch from shooting to meleeing enemies.. when he accidentally dash right beside me, causing me to get into the rift, i’ll just press the roll button and get out of the rift.. it’s simple but so many people overreacted and blame limbo when they cant use their primary/secondary.. even if (from my experience) i dont bring any melee weapon, i just sit inside the cataclysm and cast abilities (when i use nidus, i’ll use his 2 and 1)

to summarize it : be adaptive and please dont always blame limbo

[GildartsAnonn]

i am sadly one of the players who most likely will leave if i see a limbo in my squad. having said that tho i have nothing against the frame. limbo's powers are great and can trivialize some missions. the problem comes from the players who do not know when to use the abilities and how to mod the range properly. there is also the problem that limbo is squishymcsquish outside of the rift so that does not help much. a possible solution would be to allow gunfire inside the void, or even beter to be able to hack consols while inside the void. we can already use our melee inside it when melee weapons are arguably the best weapon type in game so i do not understand why our bullets need to be frozen as well. it makes sense for our bullets to get frozen as well but still...

also there is the fact that trolling hasn't stoped with limbo. there were too many times where i was hacking a consol on a sortie and a limbo put me in the void. no enemies around me, just to troll. so i automaticaly leave because i do not want to deal with idle play and troll behavior.

[Ada_Wong_SG]

Conclusion - Don't use limbo in a public match.

Whenever I see a limbo in public match squad I leave immediately, there is no reason to bring a limbo to a missions 
for all occassions, even raid and sortie.

Sure it will make things a lot of easier for the team to survive, but also annoy the team on an exponential level as you hurt the enemies.

I have met Limbo who banish me as a Trinity where the main form of damage output is through weapons...
when I am EVing targets and shooting them dead to get the energy...
all of a sudden a banish and I need to roll when my crosshair is on the enemy when I cast EV ?

Seriously with link and blessing active and overshield from vampire leech... who in the universe of warframe need a banish to protect ?

Or even better when the team is using Lenz, Zarr, Tonkor... cast stasis ?
Seriously is the Limbo even half-awake in the middle the battle to know what he is doing ?

I don't think that is unintentional, clumsy or mistake, those are acts of intentional mischief.

Edited December 10, 2017 by Ada_Wong_SG

[Diponegoro]

they just didnt know how to deal with limbo

 

1. you can troll them back if u think they annoying. bring high ammo gun like gragata, soma and azima, unleash all the bullet each time he uses stasis. pop da bubble

2. enjoy the game, leech them. just hide/sit/meditate around them, since u didnt need do anything.

3. let him die.

[Phobonaut]

One thing I will say is that there's a severe lack of Limbos in spy missions.

All I want is a Limbo buddy that will throw me into the Rift while my Loki is invisible so I can just walk right through the door being invisible AND untouchable.

[DeliciousDoob69]

Another thing that really upsets me as a Limbo player is another Limbo on my team, sadly. Even if I mod to be totally unobtrusive just having another Limbo on the team can totally throw off my flow, then I feel even more helpless than I did before. Playing Limbo is all about having total control of the battlefield, but if that control limits other players from even interacting at all on the battlefield then the salt will flow.

It can't be argued either that Limbo is amazing for certain mission types, mobile defense. Although he is king in these missions his play style becomes inactive and boring, which is something DE tries to stay away from, right? Even at sortie level mobile defense all you do is load up the data mass and cast 2 abilities and wait, rinse and repeat.

This is just a guess, but I'd say more than 60% of the community doesn't want a Limbo on their team. If that figure is anywhere close to the truth, and I think it is, then maybe it's time to reevaluate his abilities.    

[Phobonaut]

There are no real solutions to this @deliciousdoobmaster69. Aside from making mission objectives rift-able, like consoles or fuel/cooling cells.

A good way to stop this problem from growing as the playerbase grows is to put a pretty serious roadblock on the Limbo Theorem. Right now, the Limbo Theorem is unlocked from the Jupiter/Europa junction. Europa is pretty much early game. No disrespect to low MR players but I imagine a lot of players at that stage are still in the "Braton things until it's dead" mindset, or "I'm gonna Skana that Toxic Ancient to death ooooh nooo how did I die?" mindset.

[LuckyCharm]

The only way I ever play limbo is I pop into the void and then zoom about killing nothing and contemplate the meaning of life.  Then when it gets to the end screen and I see i've taken 0 damage, and gotten 0 kills it makes me feel like i've done my job as limbo. 

If I use any abilities at all I'm doing it wrong and it's my fault my team failed.  So there you have it. Limbo's entire point is to watch and learn while everyone else does the work for you, then you can play a real frame like loki with all your new found knowledge.

TLDR: Limbo should never use skills ever. 

[Clowee]

I tend to rather play a person short than have a random Limbo on the team.

I've grouped with some really good ones who aren't a nuisance, but most of them are not this way.  If every Limbo was good, it wouldn't be a problem. 

It's not just Limbo though.  A bad-Frost can be just as disruptive to the group if not even more so with worse results.  Limbo just seems to be the most common offender.  I would mind Limbo a lot less if they dialed back the way the colors change also in the rift as it tends to give me headaches.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Clowee

[Ajwf]

Frost has to try pretty hard, and that's by bubbling everywhere multiple times to make sure your bullets just never hit anything unless you're in melee. 

I'm level 29 with Limbo and I still haven't the slightest idea what his 3 does despite having used it multiple times. Like I know I kill something with it and stuff around killed target is banished, but exhibit A, I'm nigh positive 'Banish' is a status effect with a knock-down attached to the 'plane shift'. I can't find it anywhere in his abilities that mentions this knock down but it's pretty consistent on his 1, and I've seen video demonstrations saying his 3 has it too. 

Limbo just is never explained. The 'rift' preventing interaction with inanimate objects, as well as cataclysm blocking damage to these objects (or an enemy's interaction, in the case of control) isn't listed. How to use Limbo's passive isn't listed (unless dodge is the name of 'sprint' on other warframes) even though you'll probably be wondering why you're fading in and out of gray screens when you pick him up. That you can revive allies on the normal planes while in the rift isn't listed, which is counter-intuitive to not being able to interact with literally any other aspect of the world besides doors opening for you. In the rift, you cannot pick up items, open containers, reset alarms, kill enemies not in the rift or be crowd controlled from abilities in the other plane, but you can revive allies on either plane. It is insanely counterintuitive (and super useful) but simply never listed. 

I don't really think there's anything inherently wrong with Limbo outside the fact that there's no way for someone to learn him effectively without trial and error. Triburos' Limbo guide is the closest thing I've seen to a proper tutorial and even that is for people who have the basic concepts of understanding not only how the frame functions but how to chain his abilities together effectively. The simple biggest failure is ignorance of how Limbo works and I'm as guilty of that as most other Limbos despite almost finishing him for my MR foddering. 

 

Of course this goes farther, as if you do watch Triburos' video, you'd see stasis stops the timer on stasis effects, meaning they now run for the duration of the stasis. I had no clue, there's nothing hinting at it and it could very well be a bug. Who knows, there's again nothing to signal if this is intended. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Ajwf

[Tenryuta]

On 12/9/2017 at 11:55 PM, deliciousdoobmaster69 said:

Obviously I like Limbo, I don't hate his kit, but if he's the only frame I get trash talk for then maybe he needs a change? It's about the community as a whole, and the whole community isn't into him being on their team. 

He seems like one of the only sources of toxicity in a pretty much toxic free game. That's one of the reasons I love warframe so much, it's how chill most of the players are. However when I play Limbo to his fullest potential all I get are people jeering at me. If I play Limbo like I usually do, as stated above, I don't feel like I'm doing much other than owning very small portions of the map and the occasional worry free reviving of players.     

and this is why i dont bother getting the banish augment, have fun dying when one with the aug couldve saved you.

 

i switch tactics on how to use his abilities pretty frequently, based on whats in the squad.  and i wont bother banishing or dropping cata on someone in need of energy anymore because theyre so noob on how our abilities work*hint hint*you can use abilities while in the rift*hint hint*(a stab at 2 banshees who didnt want my regen)