Limbo and the Mountains of Salt

[Tenryuta]

@Ajwf rift surge is a very odd ability, banish>surge>rift dash>banish them out, they get tossed back in, kill them, they banish others into the rift

[ViolettaFoxx]

The hate doesn't even make sense either since if you get rifted, just roll out of it. If you get caught in the bubble, just leave and your weapons work again. I witnessed a Limbo get hate from 2 MR22+ players type-screaming at him because they couldn't shoot the bad guys with their guns, and didn't stop to think maybe leave the Cataclysm or roll out of the Rift?

Also some people don't even realize your Warframe powers pass through the Rift to damage/cc enemies inside and outside.

[DeliciousDoob69]

@Tenryuta HaHa I love it when I throw a mesa into the rift and all I get is, "STOP DUDE!" same goes for pretty much any other warframe with sweet powers. People don't appreciate the rift even if it is an amazing place to be for a lot of frames. With all my time playing Limbo I can count on one hand the number of times people actually asked to be banished. It always throws me for a loop too, like my mind is blown every time. I used to banish frames all the time thinking people would know about some of the amazing synergies, but this led to just more hate than me playing my pretty much passive Limbo style that I do now. 

I really don't want a total re-work on Limbo maybe just a P.S.A. for him. I do think a few QoL changes would make him upset way less people though like not interrupting console hacking pretty much. Although I'm sure Stasis will constantly annoy most of the player base. It's an amazing CC talent, but kinda jank seeing as some people don't even come equipped with a melee, or they don't care and spray bullets until it turns off. At that point other players are actually the ones trolling Limbo, as you can die very easily with an unexpected Stasis loss. 

[Etomb]

-------------------------Players create toxicity, not the frame; just as people kill people, not guns.-----------------------------------

Limbo is given a unique strategic method of control over the battle field. This includes a level of control over the other players. 

There are 4 main types of Limbo players.

• Respectful.
• Disrespectful/disruptive. Trolling.

 

• Experienced/Intelligent; they know what they're doing. They've more or less mastered his skills.
• Stupid/Inexperienced. 

Imagine a cross matrix with all the different combinations possible.

Determine what type of Limbo you are dealing with then react accordingly.

• A respectful Limbo will respond to requests such as; please stick to this area, or only banish/freeze things when I'm ability spamming. The stupid/inexperienced flavor may try and fail, though.
• A disrespectful but intelligent Limbo is the dangerous kind. A disrespectful but stupid Limbo is just annoying. Try explaining to them how their abilities work.

Being able to roll out of banishment certainly helps with troll Limbos, but can not eliminate the freezing of enemies. Work around it; in the same way you have to deal with hallway heroes, (I think I got the expression right), or idiots that don't know how to do interception missions, or people that can't keep from constantly dying, etc.

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Limbo works best in a squad where everyone is aware of him and communicate in order to develop a collective squad strategy. Limbo works best in a squad where everyone else understands how he works too, and more often than not this does not happen.

-Example-

Interception- A properly built Limbo can relatively easily hold down 2 points alone, while the rest is left to the other players. If everyone just wanders around, switching points, stupidly trying to clear out a frozen limbo bubble, etc, then of course things won't work out. Help out where it makes sense.

  -   The most effective Limbo has mastered the frame, which can take a significant amount of commitment and experience, and is in a squad that trusts him to manipulate the flow of the battle. If Limbo freezes/banishes an area without you, then you should look around to see if the objective is being swarmed. Is he trying to redirect your attention? If he banishes you with a group of enemies, he's protecting you from being fired on while you kill them. Roll out afterward.

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Perhaps I just haven't learned to do this yet, but the only problem I see that the actual frame has is the difficulty that arises when interacting with other Limbos.

To put it bluntly, people need to grow up and learn how to communicate with each other. The Limbos, and the rest of their squad-mates.

[DeliciousDoob69]

@Etomb I always tell people who yell at me to talk to DE not me, it sucks being yelled at for content I didn't create. I try to use my powers in the most responsible way, but it usually doesn't stop the haters from hating  Heaven forbid if I make a single mistake too and accidentally banish someone. I really wish DE would at least do a QoL change for consoles at least, I mean I can run into people but I can't touch a console wtf. 

If there is one thing I don't enjoy while playing Limbo (other than salt) is another Limbo. If the builds are even remotely different it can lead to some really crappy interactions and usually me dying (or huge lose of energy because Quick Thinking is pretty much mandatory on Limbo IMO)  

I will most certainly agree that communication is key, but cursing at me is hardly "communication" and that's usually the first response I get. People don't want to communicate with someone they consider trash because of a frame they play.

Edited December 12, 2017 by deliciousdoobmaster69
just wanted to add something

[Etomb]

27 minutes ago, Etomb said:

and the rest of their squad-mates.

 

[Etomb]

2 hours ago, Tenryuta said:

@Ajwf rift surge is a very odd ability, banish>surge>rift dash>banish them out, they get tossed back in, kill them, they banish others into the rift

It's a chain reaction banishment that you don't have to leave the rift to use. It lets you bring in more enemies without exposing yourself. I recommend not using it in a team environment unless people will specifically only be using abilities, or like being banished.

[Terrornaut]

Limbo is my favorite defensive frame to have in the squad, aside from Gara or Zeph (yes Zephyr). I don't like having Frost's in my party but I will never really say that because there's no reason to.  As an Ember main, when I have a Limbo at high levels keeping cataclysm up (esp if we have someone to pull into cataclysm) then I am basically immortal because I will CC and kill everything, including heavies, extremely fast with buffed weapons, usually aoe/chaining, while if we're outside of cataclysms I can be banished and go about my business (though I tend to roll constantly on squishy frames so I have to be conscious).

Ultimately, metas are about not thinking and easiest reward/least effort.  People who hate characters far from the meta ingames are usually the laziest gamers (not just in terms of pushing buttons, but mentally) you will find.  Limbo is good, limbo is nice, and limbo is a gentleman.  I guess I'm lucky that I've rarely gotten trolled by Limbos, and I've never met one single limbo who wouldn't banish me or cast an ability at a location if I asked.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

On 12/9/2017 at 9:42 PM, deliciousdoobmaster69 said:

So yeah, I was just brutally cussed out because I accidentally cast banish on one of my teammates while he was hacking. I play a negative range Limbo to try to avoid ever affecting my teammates with Limbo's powers. Hell most of the time I try not to even cast powers as Limbo for fear of being reprimanded by other players, I usually use banish once to banish rescue targets that's all. This is not the first time I have received very harsh words just for playing Limbo. I have had people immediately leave game just because they see a Limbo in squad. Pretty much every game I bring Limbo to someone has some really crappy things to say to me.

I know Limbo was just reworked, but DE could you please think about doing some QoL tweaks soon. This is one of the best conceptual frames IMO, but one of the worst executions. Is there anyway we could let people in the rift just get a damage reduction to incoming and outgoing damage, but still be able to interact with stuff. I have many more ideas for possible tweaks to limbo as I'm sure everyone else does. 

It's just weird to receive so much hate in such a friendly game.        

I only use his stasis with teamates i kno. I love his rework though! Probably the most op frame out there. I say make his abilities to where they only benefit him and be done with it.

[_Vortus_]

On 12/9/2017 at 9:42 PM, deliciousdoobmaster69 said:

So yeah, I was just brutally cussed out because I accidentally cast banish on one of my teammates while he was hacking. I play a negative range Limbo to try to avoid ever affecting my teammates with Limbo's powers. Hell most of the time I try not to even cast powers as Limbo for fear of being reprimanded by other players, I usually use banish once to banish rescue targets that's all. This is not the first time I have received very harsh words just for playing Limbo. I have had people immediately leave game just because they see a Limbo in squad. Pretty much every game I bring Limbo to someone has some really crappy things to say to me.

I know Limbo was just reworked, but DE could you please think about doing some QoL tweaks soon. This is one of the best conceptual frames IMO, but one of the worst executions. Is there anyway we could let people in the rift just get a damage reduction to incoming and outgoing damage, but still be able to interact with stuff. I have many more ideas for possible tweaks to limbo as I'm sure everyone else does. 

It's just weird to receive so much hate in such a friendly game.        

A well played Limbo is an asset to any squad.   It's a great frame with alot of useful abilities.   Be it pub or a recruited squad.   In a recruited squad, they are super strong.

That being said, I see a Limbo, ill often just leave, though sometimes I will wait and see how they play it.   If its not getting in my way, I will stay, if it does get in the way I will leave.  It comes down to stasis.   Very short bursts once in a while, im good with, but when they keep it going for longer periods, nah, not gonna bother.  

[SnowWarFr]

On 12/9/2017 at 11:03 PM, Tokens210 said:

oh ember gets her fair share of hate and its only about a single power world on fire

2 years ago before i stopped playing noone i ever tried playing with wanted a volt on their squad cause he was in the same boat he's in now where everyone including de said hes broken but there was no fix for him in site, back then de actually stated any rework on him was atleast 1 year away which killed the game for me as volt/volt prime was my only character at the time

Banshee gets hate for soundquake

mesa gets hate for peacemaker

 

funny thing is like someone mentioned above once you hit end game tier stuff people actually want them on the squad in some cases and their powers no longer seem super op but fairly on point

No one can hate my humble Excalibur! XD (Just Kidding)

[(PSN)Cynicaid]

Had one guy start cursing after I banished him. While we were standing in the extraction point. At the end of a Rescue Sortie. He was standing next to the Operative.

 

[tekmansam]

I just came from a public Akkad, wherein there was a limbo.  His cataclysm filled the entire chamber, and he wasn't shy about using it.  I promptly told him to knock that @!#? off.  He did not.  After a quick, colloquial epithet, I gtfo.  Having the ability to exit the rift was a step in the right direction, but as it has been noticed--the salt continues to flow.  LImbo is a lot of fun, but people that mainline Limbo, and ride his 4 are a bane that should not be tolerated.  I am perfectly willing to adapt my playstyle to fit with most other frames, but Limbo requires adaptation.  A warframe's playstyle might often impose a quirk upon those that choose to play them--a gimmick--that adds a level of meta to the required mindset to play them.  The problem with Limbo is that he places that burden, not on those that choose to play him, but on those that are forced to play with him.

[TychoSelchy]

I've come up with two simple things to make Limbo less frustrating: let teammates, thrown into the Rift, roll out of it, just like Limbo himself and make banish not interrupt interactions. Now feel free to come and mock the Void out of me.

[Helaton]

This isn't a problem with each of the frames honestly. It could be a good thing in others eyes.

However, I think that all frames, should come with a playthrough as that frame showing how a frame is used. But go check youtube for yourself! Watching someone doesn't necessarily help explain all the caveats of a frame.

In each frame's quest, you should get the chance to play as that frame for a short time with a preestablished loadout (story mission).  For example, in Limbo's quest, (spoiler) he tears himself apart with the rift which is why his pieces are all over the place.  Play limbo in the mission with his powers and a preset loadout.  Get lotus cues 'Enemy wave incoming Limbo.  You will need to setup your rift and prepare for close quarters battle.' Walking through all the abilities at different stages of the match.

Same for mirage quest. 'Touchy feely' story about Mirage going down fighting.  Sounds like a great defense mission to me to play Mirage and experience the story and learn about mirage and her abilities.  You don't learn anything until you jump into a warframe...and that can lead to dissatisfaction that over 4 days of crafting, and 30 levels gained, that the warframe was...this.

[Terrornaut]

1 hour ago, Helaton said:

However, I think that all frames, should come with a playthrough as that frame showing how a frame is used. But go check youtube for yourself! Watching someone doesn't necessarily help explain all the caveats of a frame.

Some of us wished for and asked for this repeatedly very early on, but it seems they won't do it/can't do it.  Technological limits may have changed with the addition of operators in focus 2.0 though, so maybe its worth it to start asking for this sort of thing again.  Then again, maybe people would do the quest and decide not to buy/grind for content lol. Who knows.

[(XBOX)BUMNOGG]

As a Limbo main I can confidently say the worst part of Limbo is how, while a large amount of his usefulness comes with large area lockdown and crowd control, almost all of his ablilites can remove potential damage from sources. Not being able to damage enemies in the rift and not being able to shoot in Stasis causes most of the hatred. I also never end up using Rift Surge because it just creates a confusing mess of banished and unbanished enemies. Overall I think Limbo mostly works, but maybe they should consider allowing either lowered damage but still damage to enemies in different dimensions, or buffed damage to enemies in rift but allow hurting enemies from outside the rift. Stasis also shouldn’t freeze friendly bullets, it essentially commands teammates to play the game in a certain way or not play at all.

TLDR: I love Limbo but his greedy play style should instead focus on cooperation and not locking players away from enemies or shooting.

[Tenryuta]

shenanigan videos are fine, what to do and what not to do videos are fine, crappy play as frame with a latrons and latos quest..."SECURITY!!!" nope.

 

few games do this tutorial crap, and its annoying if not pure S#&$ , go to the android store, half the apps make you wait through unnessecary crap to actually start playing.

 

also it'd be far easier to put a video with the quest or in the codex for frames/weapons you dont own.

[Eirshy]

The occasional misbanish or "claiming" enemies as your own to kill? Doesn't really irk me.

Max range Caticlysm + Stasis? That irks me.
If I wanted to play melee only, I'd not have brought guns.
If you want to run that build, you should be in a premade or solo. Not public.

And the thing that annoys me the most about that? Min range max duration builds are just as effective at cheesing the defense as putting a close area around the point into the rift prevents it from taking damage without giving the rest of your team a melee-only mandate.

 

Making Stasis only freeze Limbo's shots instead of all allies would go a long way to solving my rage at him. And really wouldn't be any more game-breakingly strong than Stasis already is.

Edited December 13, 2017 by TheBlueJelly

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

On 12/10/2017 at 2:55 AM, AbstractLemons said:

Stasis has no reason being up for more than a few seconds when playing with randos. I normally keepit it up for no more than 2 seconds then turn it off using as a means to either get out of trouble or to help the team recover or catch up in damage if say they manage to crowd around the cryopod and start beating on it.

^ This.

Limbo is one of my mains so I use him a decent amount. Stasis, under most circumstances, doesn't need to be on for long. Pop it on for a few seconds, use Rift Surge (Rift Torrent), fire off a few rounds at the enemies (an arrow to their foreheads in my case) and turn off Stasis to let the projectiles fly. It keeps allies from being hindered much, and makes good use of your abilities without depending heavily on melee. I do keep Zenistar with me though for emergencies situations where I need to keep Stasis up for longer periods, and works wonderfully when you shoot the disk outside your bubble and just pick off those that make it through.

I run him with high duration, low range, with Intensify and Rift Torrent for damage boost, and Natural Talent and an exilus for casting speed.

He definitely could use QoL adjustments for the sake of your teammates though, and shorter base duration on Stasis might encourage players to use it more like we've suggested unless they change it to a 90% slow for projectiles like players have been asking for.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

20 hours ago, _Vortus_ said:

A well played Limbo is an asset to any squad.   It's a great frame with alot of useful abilities.   Be it pub or a recruited squad.   In a recruited squad, they are super strong.

That being said, I see a Limbo, ill often just leave, though sometimes I will wait and see how they play it.   If its not getting in my way, I will stay, if it does get in the way I will leave.  It comes down to stasis.   Very short bursts once in a while, im good with, but when they keep it going for longer periods, nah, not gonna bother.  

Yes because being invincible, and free to use ur powers to kill enemies that cannot even fart in ur direction... Or use melee on them(the most op thing we have) as well as have ur energy regenerated is a terrible design flaw.... Really? 

 

Wake up and smell the void energy! Limbo is a gift from our gawds, ty for limbo o holy Digital Extremes! Only those in an ascended state can fully accept the fruits of ur labor!

[Eirshy]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Yes because being invincible, and free to use ur powers to kill enemies that cannot even fart in ur direction... Or use melee on them(the most op thing we have) as well as have ur energy regenerated is a terrible design flaw.... Really? 

 

Wake up and smell the void energy! Limbo is a gift from our gawds, ty for limbo o holy Digital Extremes! Only those in an ascended state can fully accept the fruits of ur labor!

Oh woops that's a Titania in a Razorwing build, welp, gg, so much for being able to shoot her Dex Pixia, which is what the build entirely revolves around, all because someone just couldn't keep their Melee Only forcing to themselves.

 

Seriously if you do max range stasis Limbo in pubs, you're distilled essence of cancer.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

On 12/10/2017 at 12:59 PM, Phobonaut said:

The crying and whining lessens as you rank up higher and higher, because the more MR people have, the more frames they're forced to learn, the more they understand how things work. Most Limbo qq'ing is because people are too dumb to learn how to roll or melee.

That's probably more of a fault of the game because it doesn't have very good tutorials. There is no where in the game that explains how the rift works or how players can unbanish themselves simply by rolling.

[Eirshy]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

That's probably more of a fault of the game because it doesn't have very good tutorials. There is no where in the game that explains how the rift works or how players can unbanish themselves simply by rolling.

I feel like that could actually be added; something like the "press 5 to use transference" prompt you get when you find a Kuva Siphon, put a similar thing up the first time you enter the rift via portal/banish (while not Limbo) in each mission.

Edited December 13, 2017 by TheBlueJelly

[AbstractLemons]

2 hours ago, TheBlueJelly said:

I feel like that could actually be added; something like the "press 5 to use transference" prompt you get when you find a Kuva Siphon, put a similar thing up the first time you enter the rift via portal/banish (while not Limbo) in each mission.

For the love of lotus yes. I cant be expected to give out a 2 - 5 minute explanation every single time i play him on how everything he does works.